human justice

[ALLorNOTHINGforCHRIST]

Do you believe in it? I am a Christian and so believe that God is the judge in the end, BUT do you believe in the concept of HUMAN justice our justice system(s) ECT?

[John 6:29]

If by human justice, you mean civil justice, I don't "believe" in it, but I accept it as necessary. I am a Christian as well and the Bible even speaks on topics such as these and it's not against it. However, I do have issues (unlike most conservative Christians) with the federal and state prison systems as well as death penalties. The reason being is that people may be wrongly accused and found guilty when they are in fact innocent. Thus I think at times civil justices can be rather difficult to deal with, but I think they are necessary none the less.

I mean, to be honest, I think if there was no penal system that there would be a lot more criminals, which can almost indirectly be assumed in things such as intoxication or drug usage. People get that, "I don't care what happens" feeling and thus commit crimes. So, I think it's necessary, but I don't think that the current system we have is the best, but it's not really my place to determine what is best.

Also, I fear when placing judgment on governments we often forget that God is sovereign and that even in corrupt nations and corrupt leaders that God was sovereign in placing them there. So, I'm also wary on speaking condemnation on the penal system. It's easier for me to change my attitude than for me to change a penal system and countless other peoples minds, so I just accept it for what it is and in the end, as you say, God will be the judge. So even if people potentially escape civil justices, they cannot escape God, who will give the most justice, the most mercy, and judge the most righteous way possible, so I tend not to worry about it. Though I suppose my anxiety may increase all the more under a more corrupted governments idea of justice.

[l0stCause]

without fear of punishment chaos will overcome this world

[Xujhan]

I don't think that anyone here - except Frosty, obviously - would say that we'd be better off without a judicial system. Even a corrupt government is generally preferable to absolute anarchy.

[ALLorNOTHINGforCHRIST]

No, I am saying to you think it works? Do you believe it is possible to have justice with human judges?

[John 6:29]

Originally Posted by I love dogs

No, I am saying to you think it works? Do you believe it is possible to have justice with human judges?

Depends on your definition of justice and if the justice is in fact on a criminal and not someone who was innocent and judged wrongly.

If justice is meeting the punishment that fits the crime, no, I don't think this is possible because it's impossible to precisely take away all the harm the original crime has done, be it psychological harm, financial harm, or physical harm it can't be undone and therefore human justice falls significantly short of absolute justice.

In regards to "working," I'd say the penal system works in preventing criminals, but does not serve as a means to absolute justice, but rather fallible human preferences of justice.

I'd say it's possible to have justice, but not an absolute form of justice. In other words, it's like asking can a toddler have a conversation? Yes, in a variable degree a toddler can have a conversation but it falls insignificantly short of most adults, and it varies from toddler to toddler. It's the same with justice, you can have it in a degree, but it will fall insignificantly short of a definite means of being perfectly just because it's acted by fallible human beings which degrees of justice will vary according to an individual.

[ALLorNOTHINGforCHRIST]

I personally do not believe in human "justice" because people are either judged wrongly and convicted or the other way around. Since human are not perfect human justice will ALWAYS fall short.

[Xujhan]

Originally Posted by I love dogs

No, I am saying to you think it works? Do you believe it is possible to have justice with human judges?

Absolutely it is. If you mean "Is it possible to have a perfect justice system, where every criminal is caught and given a punishment proportional to their actions and absolutely no mistakes are ever made?" then no, of course it's not. Like everything else, justice is relative. Since 100% of people will never entirely agree, there can be no perfect justice system. That's one of the reasons that the idea of a divine judge is so appealing; it removes all the ambiguity present in reality.

Originally Posted by I love dogs

I personally do not believe in human "justice" because people are either judged wrongly and convicted or the other way around. Since human are not perfect human justice will ALWAYS fall short.

Do you believe then that we should have no justice system at all? Humanity will always have room to improve in everything we do; our imperfections define our existence. That doesn't mean that nothing is worth the effort, it means that it's worth the effort to improve ourselves.

[ALLorNOTHINGforCHRIST]

Problem there would be if we didn't even try then we would be in a crazy world but we already are so yeah.

[John 6:29]

Originally Posted by I love dogs

I personally do not believe in human "justice" because people are either judged wrongly and convicted or the other way around. Since human are not perfect human justice will ALWAYS fall short.

Yes, but it's still necessary imo.

[ALLorNOTHINGforCHRIST]

It is necessary I just wish it were more dependable.