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-   -   Triggering (ED): Kenneth Tong Promoting Anorexia (http://www.teenhelp.org/forums/f15-eating-disorders/t63979-kenneth-tong-promoting-anorexia/)

InTheFlood January 8th 2011 09:41 PM
Kenneth Tong Promoting Anorexia
 
So, I don't know how many of you have heard but there's this guys called Kenneth Tong promoting anorexia on twitter. Normally I'd just ignore someone that stupid, but some girls are actually listening to him.

Here's the link to it but if there's ANY chance you could be triggered don't click

http://twitter.com/MrKennethTong

Kumagoro January 8th 2011 09:59 PM
Re: Kenneth Tong Promoting Anorexia
 
I haven't clicked the link because I'd probably find it triggering, but from your description that sounds awful. I think it's bad enough that people get EDs because they start to think negative things about themselves. To encourage those thoughts in somebody is just horrible. Does he even have a conscience? :/

InTheFlood January 8th 2011 10:02 PM
Re: Kenneth Tong Promoting Anorexia
 
Apparently not.
He's trying to sell his "Size Zero Pills"

Snufkin January 8th 2011 10:05 PM
Re: Kenneth Tong Promoting Anorexia
 
I hated him when he was on Big Brother and I hate him now. Thing is, he's probably just after attention, and he's getting it.

Kitty. January 8th 2011 10:17 PM
Re: Kenneth Tong Promoting Anorexia
 
This is absolutely awful.

FlyingTrue January 8th 2011 10:22 PM
Re: Kenneth Tong Promoting Anorexia
 
Is Twitter stupid that they don't have a means to report content like this??? I signed into Twitter and searched high and low for a report content button and could find nothing.

Pelios January 8th 2011 10:27 PM
Re: Kenneth Tong Promoting Anorexia
 
This is the first time I heard of him. I read a couple of posts and he seems to be doing this just to bug people and to get his 15 minutes of fame, he wants reactions from famous people and he is getting that. I don’t know why people are paying too much attention to him.

InTheFlood January 8th 2011 10:29 PM
Re: Kenneth Tong Promoting Anorexia
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by México (Post 557136)
This is the first time I heard of him. I read a couple of posts and he seems to be doing this just to bug people and to get his 15 minutes of fame, he wants reactions from famous people and he is getting that. I don’t know why people are paying too much attention to him.
If you read back a little earlier you'll see some people are listening to him and he's encouraging starvation to get skinny. Which is why people are taking notice.
Rihanna responded because he said she could use his Size Zero Pills

FlyingTrue January 8th 2011 10:33 PM
Re: Kenneth Tong Promoting Anorexia
 
From their violation reporting page:
http://support.twitter.com/groups/33...ort-violations

None of the items on there fit "offensive content". When you click an item such as "Harassment" this is what it says near the bottom half of the page:
Quote:
Reporting Abusive Behavior
Offensive Content

Everyone has different levels of sensitivity towards content. What may be shocking to one may be fine or acceptable to another. Twitter does not pre-screen content and we do not remove potentially offensive content. If there is something that you don’t agree with, or find insulting, it’s best to not look at it at all. Please see above for tools you have to block offensive users from your Twitter timeline.

User disputes and false statements

Twitter provides a communication service. As a policy, we do not mediate content or intervene in disputes between users. Users are allowed to post content, including potentially inflammatory content, provided that they do not violate the Twitter Terms of Service and Rules.

Twitter provides you the tools to respond to others, but if the conversation ends, it’s best to remove yourself from the discussion to prevent escalating the issue.
Unbelievable!!! :o

Tara. January 8th 2011 10:37 PM
Re: Kenneth Tong Promoting Anorexia
 
I have no idea who this guy is but he sounds like a jerk.

That being said nobody is forced to look on his twitter page.

Brandon January 8th 2011 10:54 PM
Re: Kenneth Tong Promoting Anorexia
 
Well, I'm going to have a different opinion than most, if not all, of the people who post in here...but I'm going to say...that it depends.

No, I don't support products that promote "size 0" women. However, I can understand promoting anorexia. Arguably, there's not much of a difference between anorexia and obesity. Because the US is one of, if not, the most obese countries in the world, it is more acceptable to be obese than anorexic. Arguably, there's not a significant difference between the two. They are both potentially life threatening, and they both carry other heavy potential consequences. And I think that if someone really wants to become anorexic, then that's not my decision to make. We have no problem not telling people to eat so much, but when it comes to not eating...holy shit, you need help! So I think that if you really want to be anorexic, then I don't see why you shouldn't be offer words of encouragement or products that are designed to help you become anorexic. I think that, as humans, we learn a lot when we experience it ourselves. If it takes someone a period of time to suffer with anorexia before they decide to make changes, then I support that. From what my best friend has told me, the Army isn't much different -- they break your fingers, put you in gas chambers, among other things to help you deal with pain in case you were to be captured and tortured. I think that pain and suffering helps us learn. So I don't think that promoting size 0 is the right approach, but I can understand promoting anorexia. Of course, people are probably gonna disagree with me and that's cool too.

Casey. January 8th 2011 11:16 PM
Re: Kenneth Tong Promoting Anorexia
 
As someone who had an eating disorder and who has also been overweight, I can get what you are saying Brandon, I do. I don't think promoting Anorexia is the right way to go though. Starving yourself isn't the way to lose weight. Not ever. If anything, they should advocate for eating healthy, but to each their own.

DeletedAccount71 January 8th 2011 11:19 PM
Re: Kenneth Tong Promoting Anorexia
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider*man(girl) (Post 557146)
I have no idea who this guy is but he sounds like a jerk.

That being said nobody is forced to look on his twitter page.

I agree. As inflammatory as his post is, I agree to the right of free speech. Readers who follow his advice do so at their own peril.

dancinfool January 8th 2011 11:28 PM
Re: Kenneth Tong Promoting Anorexia
 
Quote:
Of course, people are probably gonna disagree with me and that's cool too.

Yep, I disagree completely. I'm sorry but I've seen the effects of anorexia on a lot of my friends- obesity may be a killer but its a slow killer, and while there are many adverts advocating eating and cooking there are very few advocating being overweight as a lifestyle choice or as a 'good thing'. Anorexia has the highest mortality rate of any mental illness (or so I read in the times yesterday..) and persuading someone with a mental illness that they should make themselves worse, or encouraging impressionable teens/adults to develop a mental illness is abhorent. Sorry if that sounds a little strong.. I don't believe in 'anorexia as a lifestyle choice'.

The ANTI-Troll January 8th 2011 11:38 PM
Re: Kenneth Tong Promoting Anorexia
 
i sorta agree with brandon not completelly but he has some good points and i agree with freedom of speech.....

fresco January 8th 2011 11:52 PM
Re: Kenneth Tong Promoting Anorexia
 
I can't believe someone would do that. Is achieving infamy really that important? This issue also introduces the question: Why doesn't Twitter have a report system for offensive content? I think that's stupid too.

Brandon January 9th 2011 12:13 AM
Re: Kenneth Tong Promoting Anorexia
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dancinfool (Post 557209)
...and while there are many adverts advocating eating and cooking there are very few advocating being overweight as a lifestyle choice or as a 'good thing'.
Most of the food commercials you see are food from fast food restaurants. Because it's a commercial, it's trying to convince you to eat the food. Studies show that fast food is addicting, and arguably more addicting than cocaine or heroine.

http://www.thatsfit.com/2010/03/30/f...-studies-find/

So the commercial is indirectly telling you to "buy this product because it tastes good and will convince you to buy it again, therefore giving us a profit." You have to keep in mind that it's not always what the commercial says or does, but what the commercial doesn't say. No, commercials don't advocate being overweight, but they DO advocate buying those products that have been proven to be addicting. And if it's addicting, you're more likely to have that food again, thus increasing your calorie intake, and unless you exercise a shitload more, you'll essentially gain weight and therefore become overweight if you continue to gain weight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dancinfool (Post 557209)
Anorexia has the highest mortality rate of any mental illness (or so I read in the times yesterday..) and persuading someone with a mental illness that they should make themselves worse, or encouraging impressionable teens/adults to develop a mental illness is abhorrent.
You're kind of manipulating what I said and making it into something worse. I never said that you should "persuade" a teen/adult to develop a mental illness. I agree, that's abhorrent.

persuading someone with a mental illness that they should make themselves worse is abhorent. If someone wants to become anorexic, then no persuasion is necessary. If someone wants to make the conscious decision of becoming anorexic, I can't do anything about that. It's their body, it's their mind, and if we allow people to become obese and deal with the consequences, we should allow anorexic people to to make that decision and suffer the consequences as well. Encouragement isn't the same thing as persuasion. They're distinct differences. So let's not twist words around. If they make a conscious decision to become anorexic, then they've made that decision and there's nothing that we can say or do that can change that decision if they don't want to change. People make their own choices, and sometimes they'll make choices by any means necessary. If someone wants to make that conscious decision, then there's really not a whole lot I can do about it. Sometimes people just need to learn for themselves. Just take a look around in TH: we can offer advice to people all day, but that doesn't mean anything is going to change for those people. If someone wants to commit suicide, or anything else, I would suggest otherwise but would provide information on how to do those things if their decision was already made. Of course, I'm one of the very few THers who have this sort of mentality. I'm not immoral, by any means. In fact, I'm very respectful, and a handful of people actually appreciate my advice that I give them. I certainly do care about people. So I just wanted to clear that up. There is nothing that people say that "sounds strong," you hold a strong opinion, just like I hold a strong opinion, and I respect that regardless of what you call it. I don't care if you called me the devil, as long as you have legit evidence to suggest that I'm the devil.

dancinfool January 9th 2011 12:19 AM
Re: Kenneth Tong Promoting Anorexia
 
Quote:
If they make a conscious decision to become anorexic, then they've made that decision and there's nothing that we can say or do that can change that decision if they don't want to change.

Yes and no.. anorexics can spur each other on/make each other worse. And giving someone advice on how to starve themself acheives the same objective- its not just saying 'well you want to do it, here's how' its telling people that its ok/a good thing to be starving themselves. I agree with free-speech.. fine. But not in certain instances where its inciting people to do 'bad' things they might not do otherwise.

Brandon January 9th 2011 12:24 AM
Re: Kenneth Tong Promoting Anorexia
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dancinfool (Post 557246)
Yes and no.. anorexics can spur each other on/make each other worse. And giving someone advice on how to starve themself acheives the same objective- its not just saying 'well you want to do it, here's how' its telling people that its ok/a good thing to be starving themselves. I agree with free-speech.. fine. But not in certain instances where its inciting people to do 'bad' things they might not do otherwise.
Perhaps you scanned through my post. Here's what I said:

Quote:
...I would suggest otherwise but would provide information on how to do those things if their decision was already made.
This means that I would tell them that it's not the answer, but if what I say or do still doesn't convince you otherwise, here's how you do it. I'm not going to deny someone support and advice just because they do something that I disagree with. Anorexia isn't against the law, it's a moral issue, and what they do is beyond my control. People make their own decisions, regardless of what you tell them. Just because someone told me to "go kill myself" doesn't mean I'm obligated to do it, and just because I provide information on how to become anorexic doesn't mean that I'm promoting bad decisions. No, I'm supporting decisions in general that are not illegal.

dancinfool January 9th 2011 12:29 AM
Re: Kenneth Tong Promoting Anorexia
 
Quote:
This means that I would tell them that it's not the answer, but if what I say or do still doesn't convince you otherwise, here's how you do it. I'm not going to deny someone support and advice just because they do something that I disagree with.
You might, but I doubt thats what Kenneth Tong is doing or it wouldn't be as much of an issue. I have nothing against offering ill people advice on how to get better and manage their condition but I do have a problem with offering them advice on how to get worse! I'm not saying at all this is something you personally would do, but that it happens and is why people have such strong reactions to stuff like this.

Brandon January 9th 2011 12:38 AM
Re: Kenneth Tong Promoting Anorexia
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dancinfool (Post 557254)

You might, but I doubt thats what Kenneth Tong is doing or it wouldn't be as much of an issue. I have nothing against offering ill people advice on how to get better and manage their condition but I do have a problem with offering them advice on how to get worse! I'm not saying at all this is something you personally would do, but that it happens and is why people have such strong reactions to stuff like this.
And this is why I said from the beginning that it depends, meaning that I'm not FOR or AGAINST what he's saying or doing, but it depends on what specifically we're talking about. I only offer people advice who want to get better, or I just don't offer advice at all. This is why I'm rarely in the depression forum because I know that my advice in that forum would contradict a lot of people's opinions regarding the meaning of "support and advice." So I have boundaries, but I don't see any point in offering advice to someone who doesn't want to get better. My two favorite self-help books that I've read, Seven Habits of Highly Effective People by Steven Covey and Awaken The Giant Within by Anthony Robbins, basically say that if you want to change, you have to have the desire to change...otherwise it ain't happening. If you don't want to change, then I'd be wasting my time trying to convince you to change. It's really up to you. But if you make a conscious decision to change, even if it contradicts my beliefs, I'm going to support that. It's their life, they make their own decisions, so whatever I say or do doesn't force them to do anything.

MegaMadness January 9th 2011 02:56 AM
Re: Kenneth Tong Promoting Anorexia
 
He's obviously doing it for attention and to get 15 minutes of fame. He wants to be talked about. I read through some of his stuff and it's all rubbish. But of course some people will take this idiot seriously. I'm of the opinion don't like it, don't read it.

losing touch. January 9th 2011 03:16 AM
Re: Kenneth Tong Promoting Anorexia
 
he's a complete idiot who thinks he's some big-time celebrity because he's rich and was on big brother. pathetic, really. while i 100% do not agree with what he tweets.. it's his twitter page and he can post whatever rubbish he wants. hopefully as soon as everyone stops giving him all this attention he'll shut up and go away.

off to a new life January 9th 2011 06:11 AM
Re: Kenneth Tong Promoting Anorexia
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon (Post 557169)
Well, I'm going to have a different opinion than most, if not all, of the people who post in here...but I'm going to say...that it depends.

No, I don't support products that promote "size 0" women. However, I can understand promoting anorexia. Arguably, there's not much of a difference between anorexia and obesity. Because the US is one of, if not, the most obese countries in the world, it is more acceptable to be obese than anorexic. Arguably, there's not a significant difference between the two. They are both potentially life threatening, and they both carry other heavy potential consequences. And I think that if someone really wants to become anorexic, then that's not my decision to make. We have no problem not telling people to eat so much, but when it comes to not eating...holy shit, you need help! So I think that if you really want to be anorexic, then I don't see why you shouldn't be offer words of encouragement or products that are designed to help you become anorexic. I think that, as humans, we learn a lot when we experience it ourselves. If it takes someone a period of time to suffer with anorexia before they decide to make changes, then I support that. From what my best friend has told me, the Army isn't much different -- they break your fingers, put you in gas chambers, among other things to help you deal with pain in case you were to be captured and tortured. I think that pain and suffering helps us learn. So I don't think that promoting size 0 is the right approach, but I can understand promoting anorexia. Of course, people are probably gonna disagree with me and that's cool too.
Two wrongs don't make a right. Just because obesity is more accepted does not mean we should accept it or let anorexia become accepted. Also, the problem with letting people willingly become anorexic is that eventually they could lose control and become very sick or even die from anorexia.

With that said, I am completely disgusted with what this guy is posting, but it's totally his right to do it.

Brandon January 9th 2011 06:58 AM
Re: Kenneth Tong Promoting Anorexia
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kismet (Post 557446)
Two wrongs don't make a right. Just because obesity is more accepted does not mean we should accept it or let anorexia become accepted.
Again, my words are being twisted around here. I NEVER said that we should accept anorexia or let it become accepted. I'm merely making a point that obesity isn't that much different than anorexia, yet it's more acceptable than anorexia. I don't think neither obesity OR anorexia should be accepted. I think the US needs to do the country a favor and get rid of fast food restaurants, the advertisements, and promote healthy food choices instead. So I'm not really sure what you're trying to say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kismet (Post 557446)
Also, the problem with letting people willingly become anorexic is that eventually they could lose control and become very sick or even die from anorexia.
Trying to prevent people from becoming anorexic willingly is like buying a teenager a car and trying to prevent them from losing control or dieing in a car accident. You can only do so much for someone, but in the end...the only person who can help you the most is yourself. It's obvious in society that just because someone tells us not to, encourages not to do it, doesn't mean that people aren't going to find ways to do it. So this is a weak argument.

OMFG!You'reActuallySmart! January 9th 2011 08:09 AM
Re: Kenneth Tong Promoting Anorexia
 
If someone is going to be anorexic, I highly doubt reading the stuff that guy posted will cause the onset. It may make it worse but that guy cant be blamed for it. If you tell someone to go jump off the Empire State Building and for whatever reason, they do, you didn't make them do it, they always had the choice to listen to you and the choice to do what you said. The guy isn't offering sympathy to people with eating disorders but he has no obligation to. The beautiful thing about the Internet is if you don't like something, then you don't go to that website, simple and easy. If it's very difficult to do, then block that website.

I haven't heard of this guy before so it doesn't matter if he was on Big Brother or if he's rich or poor. All that makes no difference.

I'm glad that Twitter doesn't delete content because people should be allowed to say what they want and have their stuff still there, and not get deleted if some random person has their poor feelings hurt. If there's something illegal on it, then that's a legit reason to take it down especially if it's distributing illegal things or teaching people how to do whatever illegal act and get away with it. That's a legit reason. Someone having their emotions hurt isn't a legit reason. I'd like more websites to be like that. Reporting the content if it's not illegal involves more effort than simply avoiding the content. If Twitter did delete content, it would just make the guy post more and more stuff as he wants to get a rise out of people. Best idea is let the content stay, have your moment of crying and weeping from the content, get back on your feet and don't go to his page again. It's the simplest way to avoid his stuff so if you like simple, then that's the way to go.

dr2005 January 9th 2011 11:28 AM
Re: Kenneth Tong Promoting Anorexia
 
Encouraging anyone to commit acts of SH, be they via anorexia, excessive eating causing obesity or any other form we care to think of, is surely an attitude we should discourage in the strongest possible form? I understand the arguments concerning choice of lifestyle and freedom of speech, but this isn't remotely to do with a person's choice of lifestyle and freedom of speech is not a ticket to be a douchebag without consequences. What he is in effect doing is encouraging people to develop a mental illness to control their weight and body shape, and as someone who has seen the more serious side of mental illnesses I find that completely abhorrent. I would like to know what the difference is between this and publishing methods of suicide on the Internet.

I'm not sure where I stand on whether his account should be deactivated or not because I don't know Twitter's terms of use, but he should certainly be condemned in the strongest possible terms and perhaps given an opportunity to visit a ward and see up close the effects of anorexia.

her_beautiful_mistake January 9th 2011 12:05 PM
Re: Kenneth Tong Promoting Anorexia
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon (Post 557169)
Well, I'm going to have a different opinion than most, if not all, of the people who post in here...but I'm going to say...that it depends.

No, I don't support products that promote "size 0" women. However, I can understand promoting anorexia. Arguably, there's not much of a difference between anorexia and obesity. Because the US is one of, if not, the most obese countries in the world, it is more acceptable to be obese than anorexic. Arguably, there's not a significant difference between the two. They are both potentially life threatening, and they both carry other heavy potential consequences. And I think that if someone really wants to become anorexic, then that's not my decision to make. We have no problem not telling people to eat so much, but when it comes to not eating...holy shit, you need help! So I think that if you really want to be anorexic, then I don't see why you shouldn't be offer words of encouragement or products that are designed to help you become anorexic. I think that, as humans, we learn a lot when we experience it ourselves. If it takes someone a period of time to suffer with anorexia before they decide to make changes, then I support that. From what my best friend has told me, the Army isn't much different -- they break your fingers, put you in gas chambers, among other things to help you deal with pain in case you were to be captured and tortured. I think that pain and suffering helps us learn. So I don't think that promoting size 0 is the right approach, but I can understand promoting anorexia. Of course, people are probably gonna disagree with me and that's cool too.
.... You have absolutely no understanding of eating disorders.

You can't just have a "phase" of anorexia.

Obesity should not and really, is not, promoted (at least in the UK). There are lots of campaigns against obesity.
But regardless -- Obesity isn't a mental illness.

You can understand the promotion of a mental illness?


------

Regardless of how irresponsible and disturbing I find this guy, freedom of speech etc etc. It's pretty easy to just close an internet browser if it's bothering you.

LlamaLlamaDuck January 9th 2011 02:33 PM
Re: Kenneth Tong Promoting Anorexia
 
As wrong as I think this guy is being and as much as I don't agree with what he's saying. There are pro-ana posters on Twitter, so what's the difference?
I agree with the 'Don't like it, don't read it.' If it's something that offends you, then stay away from it.

Paige(: January 9th 2011 02:56 PM
Re: Kenneth Tong Promoting Anorexia
 
I don't think he should, BUT, it's just the thinspo without pictures.
Why are we hating on this ONE guy, when there are millions of other thinspo twitters and blogs? Go search "thinspiration" on Twitter, and hate on them too. :)
*btw I've had anorexia,, so don't tell me I don't know what it's like blah blah blah. (:

Brandon January 9th 2011 05:37 PM
Re: Kenneth Tong Promoting Anorexia
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by her_beautiful_mistake (Post 557525)
.... You have absolutely no understanding of eating disorders.
I'll ignore this false assumption. Let's not jump to conclusions. Perhaps I don't know about anorexia. With that being said, I shall continue responding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by her_beautiful_mistake (Post 557525)
You can't just have a "phase" of anorexia.
For the third time, someone is manipulating what I said and making it worse than it actually is. C'mon now...I never said that anorexia is just a "phase." I'm aware that it's a mental illness, but what I'm referring to "conscious decision," I mean the beginning point of becoming an anorexic. Unless you can provide evidence that people who suffer with anorexia have anorexia from the moment of birth, then there's a point where a conscious decision is being made. Should you pursue anorexia, or should you pursue help? Anorexia is definitely treatable, so there is other options. Of course, I can't completely argue with you when you haven't really explained why I'm wrong. Where do you get the idea that I said that it's just a "phase," and more importantly, why am I wrong? Then we can actually set a foundation to work on for an argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by her_beautiful_mistake (Post 557525)
Obesity should not and really, is not, promoted (at least in the UK). There are lots of campaigns against obesity.
You need to read my other responses.

Quote:
Most of the food commercials you see are food from fast food restaurants. Because it's a commercial, it's trying to convince you to eat the food. Studies show that fast food is addicting, and arguably more addicting than cocaine or heroine.

http://www.thatsfit.com/2010/03/30/f...-studies-find/

So the commercial is indirectly telling you to "buy this product because it tastes good and will convince you to buy it again, therefore giving us a profit." You have to keep in mind that it's not always what the commercial says or does, but what the commercial doesn't say. No, commercials don't advocate being overweight, but they DO advocate buying those products that have been proven to be addicting. And if it's addicting, you're more likely to have that food again, thus increasing your calorie intake, and unless you exercise a shitload more, you'll essentially gain weight and therefore become overweight if you continue to gain weight.
Indirectly, food commercials promote obesity.


Quote:
Originally Posted by her_beautiful_mistake (Post 557525)
But regardless -- Obesity isn't a mental illness.
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/...full/164/5/708

Quote:
Originally Posted by her_beautiful_mistake (Post 557525)
You can understand the promotion of a mental illness?
No, I understand the promotion of making committed decisions, committed decisions in general (that are not illegal). So not just anorexia, but a lot of other things. THIS, in particular, is an opinion and what I believe. I know it contradicts other people's beliefs that we should offer help to everyone regardless of whether they want it or not, so I can't argue here. It's just a matter of opinion. :bleh:

Jesus Christ. January 9th 2011 06:02 PM
Re: Kenneth Tong Promoting Anorexia
 
If people are stupid enough, let them be stupid. It's their choice, their life, let them do what they like.

dancinfool January 9th 2011 07:48 PM
Re: Kenneth Tong Promoting Anorexia
 
Quote:
I'm aware that it's a mental illness, but what I'm referring to "conscious decision," I mean the beginning point of becoming an anorexic. Unless you can provide evidence that people who suffer with anorexia have anorexia from the moment of birth, then there's a point where a conscious decision is being made. Should you pursue anorexia, or should you pursue help? Anorexia is definitely treatable, so there is other options.

How can a mental illness be a conscious decision?? You think people 'decide' to develop schizophrenia? or decide to develop an OCD? They do have a choice to get treatment or not but its hardly 100% effective. One of my friends with anorexia has seen psychiatrists, been hospitalised twice and had all sorts of 'treatment plans' yet still is still ill and underweight.
If an anorexic doesn't want help, fine. But if someone is seeking treatment but struggling with it, the twitter thing is really not what they need to listen to. Yes they can choose not to, but they have a mental illness.. so they possibly won't..

Brandon January 9th 2011 08:39 PM
Re: Kenneth Tong Promoting Anorexia
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dancinfool (Post 557798)

How can a mental illness be a conscious decision?? You think people 'decide' to develop schizophrenia? or decide to develop an OCD? They do have a choice to get treatment or not but its hardly 100% effective.


Condoms aren't 100% effective, but that doesn't mean people shouldn't use them to practice safe sex. If someone acknowledges that they have a mental illness and wants to attempt to make a change, any effectiveness would be worth it. "Failure is only when you give up." So the "100% effective" isn't a good argument. As long as there is a choice, then quite simply...there is a choice. No ands, if's, but's about it. It might be a difficult choice, but still a choice regardless. Someone has finally presented a valid argument about "becoming anorexic," at which point...I agree. But that doesn't really change anything because you have the option to seek help. It's ultimately your choice, regardless of how difficult it is. Humans are pretty amazing creatures...we have the capacity of doing amazing things, so it's entirely possible for someone suffering with anorexia to make the choice to seek help and decide to make a change in his/her life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dancinfool (Post 557798)

One of my friends with anorexia has seen psychiatrists, been hospitalised twice and had all sorts of 'treatment plans' yet still is still ill and underweight.


This could be just a matter of opinion, but I think that if you really want to change, you have to desire it. I mention that earlier in this thread, so I'm certainly not the only person who has that mentality. You can become hospitalized and anything else, but if you don't have enough motivation to change, then you probably won't. "You are what you say you are."


Quote:
Originally Posted by dancinfool (Post 557798)

If an anorexic doesn't want help, fine. But if someone is seeking treatment but struggling with it, the twitter thing is really not what they need to listen to. Yes they can choose not to, but they have a mental illness.. so they possibly won't..
Lol, people are misinterpreting a lot of my stuff. Can't say I don't blame them though. I guess this is a rather touchy subject, people get angry, and don't bother to thoroughly read my responses. If you read and interpret my responses, I never say that you should promote anorexia to people who are seeking treatment. You're putting words in my mouth. You're arguing over something I never said. lol. But in the end, if you're seeking treatment, then you don't need to be following that person on twitter. Like several people have mentioned, it's freedom of speech. He's not forcing you to look at his twitter, nor is all the other people who are blogging about "thinspiration" and such.

her_beautiful_mistake January 9th 2011 09:07 PM
Re: Kenneth Tong Promoting Anorexia
 
I am reading your posts properly, Brandon.

Quote:
If it takes someone a period of time to suffer with anorexia before they decide to make changes, then I support that
Ie, you believe you can be anorexic for "a period of time" with it not affecting you for the rest of your life. This applies to the vast minority of anorexia suffers, most will have concequences. It's not something you can just get over.

I am making assumptions you know nothing about eating disorders, or are vastly mislead, as you have actively displayed your ignorance.

You cannot chose to have anorexia. You do not wake up and think "today I am going to be anorexic". You also do not wake up and realise you are anorexic and so go straight to the doctor. It's very gradual process, and lots of people don't even realise they're anorexic until confronted by other people. I certainly believed I was just on a diet for a very long time. Genuinely believed it.
May I also add here, getting treatment for a condition such as anorexia is difficult in itself. In the UK the NHS is a bit of a shit when it comes to treating anorexia in people over the age of 18, in the US insurance companies are generally idiots when it comes to treating anorexia. And then -- recovery from anorexia more often leads to relapse then maintaining a healthy weight.
Let me state again. You do not chose to have anorexia. You also cannot always control whether you are able to recover or not; you cannot recover unless you want to, true, but whether or not you want to recover is often beyond your control.

I know that for people with limited understand/experience it is very hard to grasp, because eating is something that you just do. It's not like psychosis where there is a clear understanding -- this person is mentally ill. But anorexia is a mental illness. The individual often just genuinely cannot help themselves, why do you think sectioning etc happens? Also when you are so malnourished and underweight there are physical affects that kick in that make it even harder to get better even if you do want to.

As for the link you essentially proved me right? Obesity is not a mental illness. I'm not even sure it's classed as a medical condition yet.

I essentially agree with you that people can say what they like. What I can't get my head around is how you can understand where he is coming from.

Food adverts are not responsible for obesity. Obesity is not a mental illness. People who are not mentally ill are perfectly capable of deciding whether or not to eat that hamburger.

Brandon January 9th 2011 09:55 PM
Re: Kenneth Tong Promoting Anorexia
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by her_beautiful_mistake (Post 557858)
Ie, you believe you can be anorexic for "a period of time" with it not affecting you for the rest of your life. This applies to the vast minority of anorexia suffers, most will have concequences. It's not something you can just get over.
Well, I can understand why you think that. In this circumstance, I wasn't quite clear. I didn't elaborate enough on it. No, I don't think you can just get over anorexia, but like people with cerebral palsy or any other thing that affects their life, there's a difference between suffering with a condition, and controlling a condition. The whole "I have cerebral palsy, cerebral palsy does not have me." Even if you have anorexia, you can take control of your life. You may not ever get over it, but you can certainly take control of it. You may think I'm ignorant, which you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I'm not as ignorant as you think I am.

Quote:
Originally Posted by her_beautiful_mistake (Post 557858)
you cannot recover unless you want to, true, but whether or not you want to recover is often beyond your control.
Which is why sometimes you need to rely on other people. We can't always do things by ourselves but that doesn't make it an excuse that you can't control/change it. The difficulty is irrelevant and at some point you'll realize you have a problem and you either deal with that problem, or you let it control you. I probably won't be responding to these responses much because I feel like a lot of this is just repetition in different words, so as far as "choices" is concerned, I'll only respond if new information is presented.

Quote:
Originally Posted by her_beautiful_mistake;557858I know that for people with limited understand/experience it is very hard to grasp, because eating is something that you just [I
do[/i]. It's not like psychosis where there is a clear understanding -- this person is mentally ill. But anorexia is a mental illness. The individual often just genuinely cannot help themselves, why do you think sectioning etc happens? Also when you are so malnourished and underweight there are physical affects that kick in that make it even harder to get better even if you do want to.

As for the link you essentially proved me right? Obesity is not a mental illness. I'm not even sure it's classed as a medical condition yet.
The link says that it should be classified as a medical condition. Just because it's not is a very weak argument. Back then, homosexuality was considered being possessed by the devil. So what? Things change. Obesity is a mental illness too, that's what the link is talking about. It's not just a physical problem, but a psychological problem as well. Just like anorexia! Only anorexia is classified as a mental illness and obesity is not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by her_beautiful_mistake (Post 557858)
Food adverts are not responsible for obesity. Obesity is not a mental illness. People who are not mentally ill are perfectly capable of deciding whether or not to eat that hamburger.
Direct quote me on where I explicitly said that advertisements are responsible for obesity. Otherwise, someone is misinterpreting what I'm saying yet again. If you claim to be reading my posts, then be sure you know what you're arguing with because these misinterpretations are getting pretty lame. :dem:

mIssIng:nO January 9th 2011 10:03 PM
Re: Kenneth Tong Promoting Anorexia
 
Freedom of speech

dr2005 January 9th 2011 10:15 PM
Re: Kenneth Tong Promoting Anorexia
 
I'm steering clear of this from now on, but I will clear up one thing:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon (Post 557892)
The link says that it should be classified as a medical condition. Just because it's not is a very weak argument. Back then, homosexuality was considered being possessed by the devil. So what? Things change. Obesity is a mental illness too, that's what the link is talking about. It's not just a physical problem, but a psychological problem as well. Just like anorexia! Only anorexia is classified as a mental illness and obesity is not.
Obesity is a medical condition with a wide range of physical components and consequences, but it is not possessive of any criteria which make it a mental illness. In particular there is no evidence of being consistently associated with a psychological or behavoural syndrome - in short, it can often have physical symptoms only. It can be a symptom of certain mental illnesses such as binge eating disorder, but being a symptom of a mental illness and being a mental illness from the outset are very different things, and as such obesity was considered and rejected for DSM-V. I would recommend reading the following on this point:

her_beautiful_mistake January 9th 2011 10:16 PM
Re: Kenneth Tong Promoting Anorexia
 
"indirectly, food commercials promote obesity"
Ie, they hold some responsibility.

By the way, if so many people are apparently 'misinterpreting' what you are saying then it should be an indicator to you that you're not being clear.

We're going in circles here just repeating what we previously said so I'm just going to call it a day.

Brandon January 9th 2011 10:27 PM
Re: Kenneth Tong Promoting Anorexia
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr2005 (Post 557911)
I'm steering clear of this from now on, but I will clear up one thing:



Obesity is a medical condition with a wide range of physical components and consequences, but it is not possessive of any criteria which make it a mental illness. In particular there is no evidence of being consistently associated with a psychological or behavoural syndrome - in short, it can often have physical symptoms only. It can be a symptom of certain mental illnesses such as binge eating disorder, but being a symptom of a mental illness and being a mental illness from the outset are very different things, and as such obesity was considered and rejected for DSM-V. I would recommend reading the following on this point:
I'll comment more on this later. I have an article about obesity in American in a magazine that can probably provide me some evidence to support myself too. And, of course, I'll look further into your links as well.

Quote:
"indirectly, food commercials promote obesity"
Ie, they hold some responsibility.

By the way, if so many people are apparently 'misinterpreting' what you are saying then it should be an indicator to you that you're not being clear.

We're going in circles here just repeating what we previously said so I'm just going to call it a day.
What I'm saying is very clear, but you have to dissect each word by word. For instance, the example you provided:

Quote:
"indirectly, food commercials promote obesity"
In this evidence, I said that food commercials promote obesity. But what does promote mean? It means to help or encourage, meaning that I'm saying food commercials help or encourage obesity, but they most certainly aren't the main thing responsible. I'm a strong believer that people are in charge of their lives and make their own choices, which is apparently obvious in this thread since I've mentioned it over and over again, so we have no disagreement there. So, that's not valid evidence to suggest that I said that advertisements are responsible for obesity. Indeed, when someone holds a strong opinion and another person holds a strong opinion, it probably leads to going around in circles. lol. But I've made my opinion, I've backed my opinion to the best of my abilities, and I'll still continue to respond to the posts that are not repetitive.


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