Ben Rothlesberger's Rape Case
So, for anyone not up to speed, a woman accused Ben Rothlesberger (quarterback for the Steelers) of raping her. And recently, they just settled the civil case for a couple hundred grand.
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2012/1/2...l-suit-settles http://www.faniq.com/article/Ben-Roe...-2008--2603752 I know this is probably going to start a huge fucking fire, but here's my thought on this. She's lying to extort him for money. There was absolutley no proof that she was raped, other than her and her friend's testimony. There were no criminal charges filed, and there's no criminal suit. Instead, it went straight to civil court and essentially became a money issue. From the second link, it was even announced that all parties had come to an agreement, and that again, no punishments were being doled out. It's so fucking obvious, I'm surprised they agreed to settle. I'm not saying all women who accuse a man of rape are lying, but Jesus, the fucking sexism is astounding. Is this really all it takes? Does due process not mean anything when it comes to women accusing men of rape anymore? "But if he's innocent, then why would he settle?" Because in a world where accusations alone can ruin your career, he had a lot to lose. Blah, thoughts? |
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I completely agree with you. If I was raped you bet your ass the bastard would be facing criminal charges. The fact that it was only ever a money issue pretty much proves that well, it was only ever a money issue and not one of rape.
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DUDE! YES! THIS IS SOMETHING I'VE BEEN RANTING AND RAVING ABOUT ON HERE FOR YEARS!
The overpowering sexism present in today's law system against men is ridiculous. Nothing more than an accusation of rape is needed and a man's career is over.. Thankyou for being one of the few people on this forum who agrees with me that there is massive sexism in the cases of rape accusations. Also I'm not denying that many women have issues with getting their rapists convicted, however this is almost always because they fail to provide sufficient evidence, so it's justified that they are not convicted. I feel like the best way to solve this would be anonymity for both participants - if a conviction is decided upon then the name may be released publicly, however if he/she is declared Not Guilty or Innocent then the name remains anonymous. It's the only fair way to do things. |
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I think it's impossible for someone to comment on what they would do if they were raped because you can't predict how you would actually feel if it happened. Therefore, just because it ended up being a money-thing doesn't mean it was a lie. Maybe the female couldn't emotionally handle pressing different charges, or going to court. Maybe having him PAY for what he did was the closure she needed.
Disbelief is just another reason why women don't speak up... why rapists go free. |
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Eh. I'm split about this. I see what you mean, because of the position of fame and money he is in. However, statistically, women do not lie about being raped. Plus, also with his position of fame and money, he can get away with anything because he could always just pay his way out. So I don't know. Don't really care either, he payed his way out, he's happy and out of jail, she's happy and got money. Nobody really lost, it's not like he doesn't have enough money.
And statistically, very few rapes ever go to court, and very few rapists actually are convicted. I'm not seeing where this extreme sexism is coming from. :nosweat: I think there is a sexism assuming that all rape victims are women, and that all rapists are men? But I don't think policemen go out trying to get somebody convicted because he's a man? I don't really know what you guys are trying to say by using the word "sexism." |
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1. How do you know what's enough for her? Or for anyone, but yourself? 2. I said people disbelieving women or men who talk about being raped make it harder for others to come forward about their own experiences of rape or sexual assault. Therefore, SOME rapists are not prosecuted. |
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I had meant to refrain from engaging in two debates at the same time but I'll respond anyway. The short answer is that I don't, however given that rape is such a traumatising experience I find it difficult to believe that she would be happy with financial compensation for it. [retracted as I expanded and explained this opinion later] Quote:
We disbelieve the claims of the prosecution in court by default (although I suppose it's arguable we're more neutral than disbelief) if a man is accused of murder, why should it be any different for rape? It's a sensitive issue because the moment you accuse a man of rape his life is over, and so you have to have an iron-cast case for doing it in the first place, so it's definitely looked upon with more scrutiny. If the result of us not believing the prosecution by default is that fewer women report being raped then unfortunately that's something they'll have to deal with or find alternate solutions to; our legal system is based upon the idea of being innocent until proven guilty, accusations of rape do not exceed this rule. Oh and sorry if I come across as grumpy or rude, I have no bad feelings toward any of you, you've just caught me at a bad time if I'm honest. I think I'll refrain from replying until I'm in a better mood. |
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2. I was not talking about the court having disbelief in the situation. Sure, OBVIOUSLY, there needs to be evidence. But having a close friend, parent, teacher or whoever NOT believe you, is completely different. |
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I just really don't like victim blaming, and that's what this culture is full of. People are told that if you don't have evidence you were raped, you can't get help. Even if you don't have evidence, you have the right to report it so that you can get the counseling and help that you need. I do not think that we should try to jail people for rape without enough evidence, you must be proven guilty before you are jauled, and I am for that right. But we need to stop making somebody feel guilty because they showered after their rape so it "Really didn't happen" or "You didn't report being raped by your father at six years old? It didn't happen." People need help after they are raped, and that may not mean wanting to see their rapist jailed, it may just mean getting counseling, and if they choose to bring it to court, just because they are only going for a monetary value does automatically mean it didn't happen. I don't think you have a lot to worry about if you ask consent from your god damn partner. *All quotes from Cosmo, but I'm terrible at setting up quotes so I just gave up. |
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Victim blaming [n]
Ways of thinking about the causes of criminal victimization which seek explanations from the individual victim’s conduct and the victim’s relationship with the offender, rather than looking for wider social factors which help to explain victimization. In the context of police investigations, victim blaming can take the form of disbelieving the victim’s report of a crime being committed, or giving some types of incident lower priority on the grounds that the victim is less deserving than others. Example: Quote:
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I'll take that back. I spoke rashly and I did not mean what I said. Quote:
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There are citations at the bottom of all Wikipedia articles. They are valid. I also don't believe rates of rape have significantly changed in the past 10 years. However you have a good point I have no response to on your last sentence, they can be interpreted in many different ways. Quote:
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HAHAHA IS THIS A JOKE?! Sure, let's make a rape victim responsible for her/his offenders future actions. |
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With this, I have to bring up another point. In many sexual assault cases, the victim as screamed, and people have heard it and not done anything. Then when asked about it later, have confessed to hear them scream. As sad as it is for not reporting, should they be the victim? There is only one person who should be blamed in a rape case: The rapist. Quote:
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Your example is also flawed. In your example the first person doesn't have any clue what happened to the garden gnome, however in the case in this thread she did know who raped her. Quote:
If I have the ability to stop a criminal from shooting an innocent man, but choose not to, am I partially responsible (difference between "responsible" and "to blame") for the man not surviving? Quote:
I'm not saying she can't get help, I'm saying that her opinion is invalid as a statistic in use with the number of unreported rapes. Quote:
What I mean is that if a rapist is proven to be a rapist then he will be convicted, however the reason the conviction rates are low for accused rapists is because very few are actually proved to be rapists. Quote:
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Can I just ask a question here?
Why is that everytime these discussions come up, one side of the argument always screams VICTIM SHAMING, RAPE CULTURE, VICTIM SHAMING, RAPE CULTURE, when that's not even close to what's being discussed here? I feel that there's an actual movement afoot here to get rid of people's abilities to question the validity of rape accusations, to the point where I wouldn't be surprised if they'd go for the complete removal of due process when an accusation is made. No two cases are exactly alike. And statistically, the average person is Chinese, so it'd not worth using that as an argument, especially when a concrete number can't exactly be pinpointed. Quote:
Woman accuses rich man of raping -> has no evidence to support claim -> Prosecutor refuses to bring criminal case about, says both parties are equally responsible -> settle actual legal matters months ago civil case still in court, push for settlement -> waits for Roth to make settlement, drops case afterwards -> obviously bullshitting about being "raped" Here's what I think. Rothlisberger offered her cash to sleep with him. She did, and either he refused to pay her afterwards, or she got greedy and wanted more. Either way =/= not rape, and criminal charges should be brought against her for falsifying a rape accusation. Also, I'm not saying we shouldn't help a person who says they've been raped. What I'm saying is, they need evidence for it to be brought to court in any shape or form. Simply accusing another person is not, and should not be enough to warrant an arrest and conviction. The argument of responsibility is for another thread. I will say that the victim is never to blame, but the insanity revolving around the line of thought that having women take more steps to protect themselves is making them responsible for their own rapes and supports rape culture is the dumbest fucking line of thought I've ever heard in my life, and is probably the only clearcut culture that is perpetuating rape. Also, I think we need to redefine what is and isn't rape, because I see way too much leeway in throwing the word around. |
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But really, is it really that hard to get away with rape? No, it's not. There's no male-sexism going on, policemen aren't out there trying their best to arrest a bunch of guys because women want money. So this isn't an issue for you guys. Ask consent from your partners, and you never really have to worry about this anyway? :nosweat: |
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I was raped. If I had the chance to take as much away from the man that hurt me as I could, you bet your ass I would have. Money, time, media, there have been times I was so pissed I'd take his life. It's the disbelief that men have of women who are genuinely raped that has kept me from telling a single soul other than anonymous strangers on the internet.
On the other hand, I have met women who HAVE outright lied about being raped and sexually assaulted. These woman make me sick beyond belief, and I just as well would take everything I could from them. Do we have the right to make the call of whether or not this woman was raped? No. 1: We are not the judge, we are not the Jury. 2: We do not have near enough information to make said judgement. All the articles state is that the trial is over, and how much the woman went for. One article pretty much simply states they know jack shit. Not near enough information for any of your debates to make a bit of sense. You're all wrong, and wasting your time, get over it. |
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If this rape case was faked by the woman for money... she deserves one of the biggest slaps ever awarded.
I imagine everyone is pissed off with her. It's an insult to men, to other rape victims, etc. |
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I mean, the best advice we can give women is to vomit, because it might deter their attacker. Really? Vomit? How about "shoot your attacker in the face." No one has the right to rape anyone. But dismissing any advice someone gives about defending yourself as "blaming the victim" is ignorant, any way you put it. We do not live in a perfect world, and we need to stop pretending we do. Also, I say we need it redefined, because I have seen instances where a girl has slept with a man, after giving consent, only to revoke that consent after the act has happened, because she decided it was a mistake, and it's not right. Rare? Yes, but it happens. I've seen it twice, and the second time her friends, who all suggested she sleep with the guy in the first place, were all ready to testify on her behalf that she was raped. |
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"Oh the attacker might be armed" is not a valid reason for saying that you shouldn't have something to defend yourself. Otherwise, you're just an even easier target. In the real world, the best defense against a rapist is something that incapacitates them as far as possible from the victim. Not getting up close and putting your life on your ability to kick accuratley and hard under duress. |
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Rapes almost always are committed by acquaintances/friends/partners. It's not reasonable to expect women to always carry weapons when they go on a date with their long-term partner or when they visit a male friend. And I would actually argue that a better defence against rapists would involve better education about sexual assault and placing a greater focus on preventing people from becoming rapists in the first place, rather than focusing on potential victims. |
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And? Again, the knowledge that said female is armed with either a stun gun or an actual gun, generally is enough to deter most people. If the idea got around that most women were armed in such a fashion, people would be less likely to fuck with them. This is a fact. Quote:
Honestly, the idea of attempting to create a general profile for most rapists is going to create a lot of issues. Ever hear of the Schrodinger's Rapist theory? Imagine that, amplified. |
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I'm sorry but I find this idea that a woman can't do anything to prevent themselves from getting raped incredibly disturbing. Most of my girl friends in college carried pepper spray on their keys. That seems pretty effective to me, since you are almost always likely to have your keys on you. My dad was even considering getting me self defense classes before leaving for college. If you have the right stuff, and the smarts not to get wasted around people you don't completely trust, or even better just not to get wasted to the point where you can't defend yourself, you can probably avoid getting assaulted. There are ways to protect yourself, and I think that it's dangerous to say there isn't.
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If the attacker is also armed, then yes it might be a standoff. But I'd rather have a standoff then be at a disadvantage. Also, there's no reason to think if the attacker was armed, that he'd have any more experience or training than the armed victim. Quote:
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look im not saying he did but also not that he didnt do it but i was raped and i didn't get my day in court so now i'm making it a civil and taking him to court to get money for what he did because to me that is my justice that in my head is someone...a judge...saying to me "yes i believe you"
you really should not judge if you have not been there or don't know whats going on behind the scenes and being that you dont know them...i doubt you do |
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(About a 3rd of the way down the page) About 92% of all "incidents" result in no shots fired. Quote:
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Some chance is better than no chance. Quote:
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Also, how the hell are you going to "enforce" positive attitudes? |
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