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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
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Dealing with Blame - April 14th 2009, 11:26 AM

Not sure whether or not this is triggering. Marked it as such in the case that it is.

So I have discussed what's happened to me in detail with a couple people, one more recently and one who's been with me since it happened. Essentially what happened this morning is I was discussing sex and my opinions surrounding sex in relationships
(fairly touchy issue) and more or less ended up being told, along with my want for someone to be patient and gentle with me being criticised, that the things that have happened to me have been my fault.

This came about because I was discussing a boy in my class who's been very touchy with me, nothing inappropriate but still a violation of my personal space. He doesn't catch on to my physical cues (flinching away) and I tried politely telling him I didn't want to be touched. When he didn't listen to that, I started being more stern and I have only more recently started getting louder. I use words such as "no" or "stop" and "please" which I feel are perfectly straight-forward and most certainly words any 22-year-old boy should have learnt by now. And I was told that perhaps I am not being assertive enough and that this is the reason it's happening and has happened.

This upset me greatly and so I'm here to pose a "hypothetical." Say something happened to you once at five-years-old and then again at seven. Then say something happens a bit continually from 14-17. At 16, something bigger happens. All happened by separate people: a friend's brother, a friend, a complicated relationship, a family member. Say within this time, you are also involved in a physically and mentally abusive relationship with someone who is also controlling and sexist (he's a close friend).

I have been told by one of these people (the ones who are aware of what's happened) that it's not my fault. I have been told by the other "I don't blame you." I see a distinction between the two, especially when the latter followed a conversation about how I "didn't do enough." To me, it seems there is significant evidence of that this is all my fault or that I did something to cause these things to happen. It would be one thing if it happened once. But it hasn't, and this isn't to mention an experience I had with online sexual harassment and being tracked for months (I take a hundred percent responsibility for this situation because it was a consensual situation for months before I tried ending it). So maybe he's right. I won't open up about it, either. Only generally online, and not at all in my waking world. I don't see the bloody point. What happened years ago happened... years ago. Miss Three-Years is no longer in my life, no longer is the boy. I no longer see that particular family member, and were it ever to come down to my word against his, due to his occupation and my lack of evidence, in addition to the nature of the situation, he would win. This apparently adds to the situation being "my fault."

I'm not searching for any answers. There are no solutions to this problem, other than the obvious (opening up to someone) which isn't going to happen. I don't need sympathy or empathy and I certainly don't need pity. It's not going to soothe anything. Time is supposed to heal all wounds and to be honest with you, I don't feel much of anything anyway 98% of the bloody time. What I want are opinions. I don't want sugar-coated what-you-want-to-hear's. I want your honesty and your truth from your perspective. If something happens to you and continues to happen, not by one hand, but by many, does it then become your fault?

xo Claire





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Re: Dealing with Blame - April 14th 2009, 12:05 PM

Hi Claire,

The short answer is no. It's not your fault, not even a little bit. No matter what you feel, whether you think you should have done more - they shouldn't have done those things in the first place. And from my experience and the people I know; no matter how much you do, even if you run screaming from them, it's so easy to still feel like you didn't do enough and to blame yourself. To be frank, it's not your responsibility to 'do enough', it's your responsibility to make one sign, just one, that you don't want it or aren't comfortable with it, and it is the other person's responsibility to listen to that and to stop.

To break down the situation you describe. It is not a five-year-old child's fault is something happens to them - they are a child. Other people, adults, are supposed to love and protect them, not hurt them. At seven; the child is still a child, but they have also been taught by what happened when they were five that what happened is acceptable and that adults can do that to them - and that they should let people treat them that way. That child has been taught to accept and put up with that behaviour, and it is not their fault that they don't know any different.

At 14-17, okay they are not so much a child anymore. But they still learnt those things, still learned that other people can treat them that way and that bad things happen and they have been taught that they don't have the power to stop those things. That is not their fault, it is the fault of the people who taught them that. Nor is it that person's fault that other people take advantage of what that person has learned, because what we are taught as children can be so deeply ingrained that we barely realise we've learned it. That bigger thing at 16 is still taking place within this context. It is not that person's fault that other people treated them badly - it is those people's fault for acting that way. Add in that mentally and physically abusive relationship, and you have a person in a situation where all they can do is try their best to survive in tact. With all those things coming at them from all those different people over all those incidents, that person has no reason to believe that they deserve any better or may feel they deserve to be treated that way. They may believe that no matter what they do, it won't make any difference, and besides that at least this situation is one in which they know how things work.

When someone attacks us, all we can do is defend. That doesn't make the attack our fault, not does it's our fault if our defenses didn't prevent the attack going any further. If someone was mugged, you wouldn't say it was their fault for not fighting back enough or not telling the person not to mug them. You might even point out that by not fighting too much, they protected themselves from further harm. And someone who's been mugged once might well learn that fighting less will mean they get hurt less if they are mugged again. That's not their fault. This is no different.

No matter how many people have hurt a person, no matter how many times - that person is not to blame and it is not their fault.

The boy in your class should not keep touching you if you have asked him not to. You have been perfectly clear and assertive enough. It is not your fault. People often find it easier to blame the victim because then they feel safer, they feel like there is something they can do to stop it from happening to them. But the truth is that the blame is misplaced, and that you have been assertive enough and do not deserve any blame for what has happened.

Last edited by FromTheAshes; April 14th 2009 at 12:11 PM.
   
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Re: Dealing with Blame - April 14th 2009, 06:52 PM

When someone hurts you, violates your trust, or acts inappropriately whose fault is it?
NOT YOURS

Under no circumstances can it possibly be your fault. When someone does something like that it is their choice. You didn't force them to do anything. You are only responsible for your own actions. You can't control another person and therefore you can't be to blame for their behavior. It isn't important that you let something continue for months or even years the important thing is that you eventually put a stop to it. I am so proud of you for that. You have to realize in situations like these it is easy to feel trapped and helpless. Thats what makes it so hard for people to stand up for themselves. Hey, many people NEVER stand up for themselves at all. So stop being so hard on yourself and instead start showing a little pride. You were strong. You still are strong. Everyone makes mistakes. The trick is to learn from those mistakes rather than beat yourself up about them every chance you get. In fact, I think those mistakes became null and void because of the fact that you did put a stop to it. That alone outdoes any 'mistakes' you think you might have made a million times over. When bad things happen to children it is never their fault. Children are innocent and there is nothing they could do to ask for this find of hurt. What's more is that when you are a child things are that much more scary. You can't hold yourself accountable for anything that may have happened when you were that young. It just isn't logical. Since you proposed a hypothetical situation I am going to propose one to you. Say a friend came to you. They opened up to you and told you a story that sounded to shockingly similar you thought they were telling you your life story. They talked about all of the people that ever violated them in any way and at the end they asked you
Quote:
If something happens to you and continues to happen, not by one hand, but by many, does it then become your fault?
Would you seriously tell them that everything that happened to them was their fault? I don't think you would even consider saying that. I don't think you would tell them it was their fault because deep down you know its not your fault either. It is hard to judge a situation we are in because we tend to be harder on ourselves but try just for a second to step back and analyze the situation from an outsiders perspective. I think you'll find that there is no possible way that any of this could be the victim's fault. I don't know if I can convince you to see reason. However, I do think you will benefit from talking things over with a counselor. I know you said you don't want to open up to someone but I think talking to your therapist about some of the stuff that has happened to you will really help you come to terms with it. I want to quote you in saying
Quote:
I wanted to mention that therapy is only beneficial if you allow it to be.
Take some of your own advice and allow your therapeutic experience to be a beneficial one. I am going to quote you again because you give such accurate advice
Quote:
It's going to be worth it, as therapy can be extremely beneficial, especially to someone who's willing to give it a go.
It WILL be worth it if you decide to open up to your therapist about your past. Don't bottle this up or try to hide from it. It is obviously not working and it never will. If you ever need someone to talk to PM me anytime. I care about you and it pains me to think you are unduly blaming yourself for things that are clearly not your fault. Take care and hang in there.

Lots of love <3 Mimi



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Re: Dealing with Blame - April 15th 2009, 12:55 PM

I appreciate the opinions of the people who posted and though I have read and re-read them through, I'm not sure how much of a response I'll be able to give.

Something that Lils said that really stood out to me was the following:

Quote:
With all those things coming at them from all those different people over all those incidents, that person has no reason to believe that they deserve any better or may feel they deserve to be treated that way. They may believe that no matter what they do, it won't make any difference, and besides that at least this situation is one in which they know how things work.

I feel this way a lot of the time. It's not so much a matter of "this is what I want" as it's a matter of "this is what I know." And this is a point so many people fail to comprehend. The people who have seen me in these relationships and who have seen what's gone on are constantly meeting with questions and state-the-obvious comments that come across as degrading and only serve to humiliate me further. And then there's this person, who's heard what happens behind the scenes, and his are even worse. It's frustrating to me because I try to convey my point: I'm not stupid. It's not that I don't see it. And I have to scoff at the question of whether or not I would ever want to give a happy, healthy relationship a try. Of course I imagine what it would be like having someone who loved me and who took care of me and who treated me to patient, gentle hands. But at this point, such a relationship, to me, seems so bloody unattainable that it's nonsensical to even concentrate on wanting a relationship like that.

Abusive relationships are all I know how to do because they are all I have ever done, and it's frustrating when people can't see this. And it's not so much that people can't see this, it's that my closest friend can't see it, either. Despite my attempts to explain the situation, he cannot see where I'm coming from, and as time wears on, the more critical and judgmental of me and my situation(s) he's getting to be. It's getting increasingly difficult to deal with because it's interfering in other aspects of our relationship and other conversations. It's also hard for me when he gets frustrated at certain reactions and responses. All I can do is try. All I can do is learn from my mistakes. I have been conditioned to act and to react in certain ways and after 17 years, I can't undo it in a day. It doesn't help being snapped at or being criticised. If anything, that only makes it worse, not only because I'd take a beating sooner than I would a sharp reprimand but because he's been let into places of me no one else has.

I'm bothered most by the fact that such patterns come through even in relationships with people I don't or hardly know. I'm quick to feel guilty and even quicker to apologise. As stated earlier, everything in my mind is my fault. Their responses, their reaction times, their moods and even their issues and insecurities. I tend to expect to be on the end of their distance and their anger and their pain etc. I tend to assume I've said or done something wrong or that I've been a "bad girl." I tend to think they want little to nothing to do with me. I am constantly wanting and willing to be at their service, and I set people up on pedestals. I am nothing but their pet to do with as they please. I tend to put the people who treat me otherwise (as their equal and as their friend) on an even higher pedestal, and I am constantly in line for their praises and reassurances. Drives some people bloody mad. And me? I feel so unworthy and so undeserving of their treatment. I feel puzzled and often respond in panic. I'm terrified because I can't even begin to comprehend the dynamics.

I forget where I was going with this. But I guess my point was that that part of your post really spoke to me.

In response to Mimi, it really helps to consider it in terms of someone else, and when you apply my own question to the situation of someone else... I believe I mentioned to you in chat that I am heavily influenced - perhaps too influenced - by his opinions. I imagine this is due to past conditioning and considering the nature of our relationship, it makes sense to me that he dictates such things as they "are." This also applies to other circumstances. An example would be the other day, when I slipped up after a good 20 days of being SH free. He made an incredibly aggressive comment that he later apologised for. When I said it was fine and I deserved it, he said yes and that I did. It's crushing to hear but sometimes you need to hear it. So when he says it's my fault... It's my fault.

I love how you use my own advice against me. <3 I'm not sure I can, Mimi, if I'm to be entirely honest with you. What happened when I was a child happened when I was a child. It doesn't matter to me. What happened in my three year relationship and the other that lasted four and a half years? I was loyal to a fault, and I have no reason to be wounded by treatment I consented to. The online relationship, same reason. And the other thing that happened, I talk now... Eh. She would be legally obligated to tell someone about it, and I am not strong enough to deal with that. I can't even say it aloud, not even when I'm alone.

xo Claire





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Re: Dealing with Blame - April 15th 2009, 05:08 PM

Claire,

I am glad that part of my post spoke to you, because that shows that you are looking at the things that have made you vulnerable to such treatment, and by realising what those things are, you can start to work on them, if you wish to, at your own pace. I'm sorry to hear other people find it hard to grasp the distinction between wanting and knowing; and I know that stepping away from what we know can be scary and hard. That is something that I think a lot of people struggle to understand unless they have been through experiences to help them see it. If you look at it from the other perspective, someone who hasn't been hurt that way, it seems to make sense that they wouldn't stay because they wouldn't want it - but that neglects the fact that they too have their own experiences which make those relationships that don't hurt them familiar and comfortable, and that makes it much harder for them to understand how it would feel it that wasn't the case. (I hope that makes sense?)

I think that much of what you've said is understandable given those kinds of experiences. And I understand that it's terrifying and daunting when you don't know how healthier relationships work, don't know the dynamics or what you can expect or what they do (and don't) expect of you. I believe that you can get there, in time. Yes it is scary and hard, but all those things are things you can learn, at your own pace and in your own time.

I know this next quote wasn't directed at me but I wanted to respond anyway, I apologise if there's anything I've misunderstood though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sphynx View Post
I'm not sure I can, Mimi, if I'm to be entirely honest with you. What happened when I was a child happened when I was a child. It doesn't matter to me. What happened in my three year relationship and the other that lasted four and a half years? I was loyal to a fault, and I have no reason to be wounded by treatment I consented to. The online relationship, same reason. And the other thing that happened, I talk now... Eh. She would be legally obligated to tell someone about it, and I am not strong enough to deal with that. I can't even say it aloud, not even when I'm alone.
Claire. If you honestly, truly had consented, you would not be feeling like this. But you are. You did not consent. Consent is not 'not saying no', it is actively saying 'yes'. Staying in those relationships does not mean you consented. Maybe you felt you couldn't say what you wanted to, or like you were trapped or couldn't leave - I don't know. Maybe, like me, you felt you had better just do as you were told and that if someone was treating you this way, it was your own fault and you should just accept it. I don't know. But I do know that just because you stayed, does not mean that you consented. It was not your fault and you are not to blame.

If you can't talk right now, that's okay. I agree with Mimi that if you can, it might help. But that's your choice and your decision. Maybe you could consider going to just a few sessions, maybe with something written down about what happened, and give yourself the choice in the session whether to share that with the therapist or not. Or you could try writing it in the session. Even if you wanted, you could just drop hints, just say that something happened that you were uncomfortable with or something like that, but that you don't feel ready to talk about it yet. Any therapist worth seeing will understand that these things are hard to talk about and that you need time to learn to trust them before you can even seriously consider talking about it. It's okay if you decide not to talk to them about it, but if it is something you want to do, or decide would be helpful in the future, then remember that you are able to choose how much or little you tell someone and when.

As for your friends, I know it's hard, but you do deserve not to have to be hurt by comments like that, even if you don't believe that you deserve that right now. If they say things like that, just tell them their comments are upsetting you. It might be that they just don't realise how hurtful their remarks are, or that they are genuinely trying to understand where you're coming from and just not quite getting there.

Good luck,

Lils
   
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Re: Dealing with Blame - April 18th 2009, 04:14 AM

Quote:
(I hope that makes sense?)

Yes, it does, and I do try to be mindful of that. I guess it's only frustrating because what I was scared to do before, I'm not as scared to do now. I want to get out, but a) it's not going to happen overnight and b) I cannot do it on my own. I am prepared to seek help and it's something I have discussed with my psychologist in the past, but I end up getting worked up and bothered because no matter how many times I repeat my point, they never seem to grasp the concept. This is honestly one of the first times anyone has ever understood exactly where I'm coming from. It also helps hearing someone tell me that I can learn and that I can do so in my own time. I have people in my life, including my family, who are so fed up with me and who are so willing to shout "I thought we were past this!" that it can be disheartening, and quite damaging to progress I have made. I suppose, though, that I really, really do need to stop weighting people's words so heavily, and perhaps I need to learn how not to do this before I start working on my personal relationships. This is something I suspect I need to do for me and when I'm ready, not for the pleasure or approval of anyone else and not because they say I have to.

After some more encouragement from Mimi, and really considering what she and even you had to say, I feel I want to try giving it a go. I can't discuss all of it and I'm not sure I'll ever be able to discuss some of it, but I feel it really could be beneficial. I say that what's happened happened and that there's nothing anyone can do about it now. I say that because of that, it doesn't matter to me. But if it didn't matter to me, then why would I be posting here? Why would I still be affected by it all these years later? If even nothing can be done to them, there's still a lot in the way of process work and improvement that can be "done" to me. Perhaps talking about it could help relieve me of some of this guilt, the constant feeling that I'm a "bad girl," and that alone, I feel, would be worth it. As strange as it may sound, too, these are experiences and situations I would really like to feel. I'm tired of looking back on them and thinking about what happened to be met with a dead silence. I want to scream. I want to shout. I want to cry. I want to break. I want to do something, anything that means I can escape being numb.

In regards to my friend, I have expressed multiple times how much it hurts me to be blamed and criticised and yelled at for what I'm doing. I have expressed how it only serves to make matters worse, and I have said time and time again that I cannot be "tough love"d into stopping. I have even stood up and said "No, I don't deserve it," but it never seems to make any impact. It's a crushing feeling, but again, I am choosing to put myself in that position. I see ways I could get out of it, but I'm not in any hurry to get there.

I appreciate your support, and you taking the time to write so much in response to me. <3

xo Claire





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Re: Dealing with Blame - April 18th 2009, 10:52 AM

I'm glad to hear that you are less scared to to some things now than you were before, that shows that you are making progress and is a really positive sign. I know it is hard, and no, it's not going to happen overnight and you definitely deserve support, but you recognise those things which is good because it shows that you have a realistic understanding of what you can expect, and most importantly what it is fair to expect of yourself in this particular instance. I know what you mean about it being incredibly frustrating when you're trying to make a point and the psychologist just doesn't get it. I try to think of analogies to help them, but I know that isn't always appropriate or possible, and sometimes it can help simply to say 'I don't really feel like you're understanding where I'm coming from, and I'm not sure how to explain it any differently, but this is how I feel and what I'm thinking' and maybe suggest that it might be helpful to you even if they just listen and don't quite get it (or even if they tell you they don't quite get it, which I would never have expected to help but actually it can). It might be that it's not something they can really get because they haven't had those experiences, or it might be that they don't get it now but something you'll say later might make it click for them a bit more. It's really good that you've talked to them about this, though, and I hope that you continue to do so, at your own pace, even though I know it's frustrating at times.

I'm really sorry to hear that some people have said things like thinking you were past this, because that does make it that much harder to keep talking and working through things and because this is not the sort of thing that you just 'get past' overnight. It sounds to me like you're working really hard to try and help yourself through this and to get the help and support that you deserve, and that's something to be proud of because it can be so hard to do. I hope that there are at least some people in your life who can be proud of you for that, and I hope that in time you will become proud of it too if you aren't right now.

It's okay not to be able to discuss all of it. It's your choice how much you share and when, and also with whom. It's great that you want to try giving it a go because I agree that it could be really beneficial, and I hope that you find it to be so. It doesn't sound strange to say you want to feel it - that numbness is horrible, like a bubble that makes everything that bit harder to come to terms with. I think it is a positive thing that you want to feel those things and more than that, want to express those things, and I hope that you can find safe places and ways to do that, to cry and scream and shout, because you deserve to be able to do that.

It's okay to not feel able to get out right now. It's hard to get out and walk away, what's important for right now is that you can recognise the things he does that aren't helpful. I'm proud that you said you don't deserve it, because you don't, but that takes courage to say, so I'm glad you could say it. When you're ready, you can make that choice whether to stay or to get out; until that time comes just remember that it is unfair of him to criticise you that way and that you are doing the best that you can, and remember that you are making good progress and fighting; write it down so you can read over it when you need reminding, if that helps you.

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Re: Dealing with Blame - April 23rd 2009, 09:27 PM

Hey Claire,

I'm so glad you've reconsidered and now plan on talking about what happened. We have discussed this already but since repetition is the father of learning I'll bring it up again. Taking baby steps is perfectly acceptable. If you keep just putting one foot in front of the other you are still making progress. No one can expect you to magically be where you want to be overnight. Permanent change takes time. If you just rushed through everything I highly doubt any of it would really stick. As long as you are doing what you need to do to make those positive changes then you're on the right track. Remember that there are people who do understand. Don't listen to the people around you trying to belittle you and take you down. They obviously don't know what they are even talking about. Not everyone is going to be kind and people are going to say some stupid things. You are smart enough to not believe everything you hear. Why would you believe their idiotic babble? I am so proud of you already for how far you've come. It is okay to not talk about ever single detail. As long as you are opening up about the big issues then you are doing an amazing job.

You don't have to be silent anymore. I don't think remaining mute and apathetic would help anyone in this situation. It's okay to get angry as long as you are getting mad at the right people. However, it is also important to find ways to release that anger. As long as you aren't hurting anything (including yourself) there is no right or wrong way to express your anger. I do things like punch my pillow, take a bath and scream under water, write angry letters that I don't send, ranting to a friend, and believe it or not I've even made voodoo dolls (keep in mind that I did grow up in New Orleans). Find out what works for you and use that to help work through your emotions. You know I am here for you whenever you need me.

About your 'friend' who treats you like dirt, anyone who would treat you like that is a sorry excuse for a human being. If you can acknowledge that you deserve better then why not do something about it. Inaction isn't going to get you anywhere. He is just going to make healing that much harder for you. I honestly don't think you can get any 'better' while he is still a part of your life. What is keeping you from ridding yourself of this headache and moving on? I know you can do it and I know you know you can do it. Think about yourself for once. Start doing what is best for you. I care about you and it hurts me to know someone is treating you like this. Think about what this situation is really doing for you. Take care and stay strong.


Lots and lots of love <3 Mimi



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