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Question Is there a difference? - November 8th 2009, 06:37 PM

I've been diagnosed with Manic Depression but every time I try to look it up and learn about it it just shows me BPD instead. Which is the disease I thought I had but was diagnosed with Manic Depression instead. Is there a difference between them or what? I'm confused...
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Re: Is there a difference? - November 8th 2009, 07:35 PM

When you say it shows you BPD, do you mean Bipolar Disorder, or Borderline Personality Disorder?

If you mean Bipolar Disorder, then not here is no difference. I believe the term "manic depression" is a bit older and somewhat outdated and Bipolar is more commonly used now. but I may be wrong on that. they are the same thing though.

if you meant Borderline Personality Disorder, which I don't think you did... but then there is a big difference.
   
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Re: Is there a difference? - November 8th 2009, 07:38 PM

Yes, sorry, I did mean Bipolar Disorder. Cause I went to a couple therapists and one of them said Manic Depression and that it was not Bipolar Disorder. But when I look it up they are the same. So I got confused as how I could be one but not the other when they are the same. Thanks.
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Re: Is there a difference? - November 8th 2009, 07:49 PM

Hm. the only reason I can think of why one therapist may use the two differently is that there are a few different classifications of Bipolar Disorder. I believe Bipolar I is classic manic depression with cycles between depression and mania, but Bipolar II instead cycles between depression and hypomania, which is a less severe form of mania. Hypomania doesn't interfere with your functioning like mania does, it is more just uncharacteristic hyper-ness.

if that makes any sense at all.

my psychiatrist though I might have Bipolar II at one point, because I would either be extremely depressed or weirdly hyper.. like jumping around and grabbing people and stuff like that. Not severe, just strange for someone like me who is usually very depressed and down.

Hope this helps?!
   
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Re: Is there a difference? - November 8th 2009, 08:02 PM

manic depression = bipolar disorder.
ghostoverground said it well, bpd is borderline personality disorder, and there is a big difference between that and bipolar disorder.
btw i'm bipolar too
   
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Re: Is there a difference? - November 9th 2009, 02:41 AM

It did help thanks. Yeah, I've been researching it a lot.

I would say awesome but I'm not sure it's a good thing. Haha.
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Re: Is there a difference? - November 9th 2009, 02:59 AM

There's not a huge difference between borderline and bipolar, at least none that I know of. As far as I know they're pretty similar, similar enough that doctors often mix up which a person has.
But yah, manic depression and bipolar disorder are the exact same thing.
Manic depression is the old name for it, but it was changed to bipolar affective disorder as it more accurately describes the disorder and takes into account unipolar disorders.


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Re: Is there a difference? - November 9th 2009, 04:34 AM

Alright. Thank you. :]
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Re: Is there a difference? - November 9th 2009, 09:10 AM

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There's not a huge difference between borderline and bipolar, at least none that I know of.
They are often confused/misdiagnosed for one another, in part because they are relatively commonly comorbid (i.e. both actually present).

From the perspective of diagnosis, though, they are very different. Bipolar disorder (speaking generally, as there are multiple forms of it) is a mood disorder, whereas Borderline is a personality disorder. Borderline is much more pervasive (i.e. encompassing one's personality) and is therefore much more difficult to treat. Also, the diagnostic criteria for the two is vastly different. The actions of people with the two disorders may be similar in some cases, but the requirements to be met for diagnosis are very different.
   
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Re: Is there a difference? - November 9th 2009, 07:43 PM

Sometimes I think I have a personality disorder as well but I'm done with therapists so I doubt I'll ever be diagnosed if it's true. Thanks you guys for your help. :]
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Re: Is there a difference? - November 9th 2009, 09:47 PM

believe me, they are different. very much. i have both and i can easily distinguish between what is what in me. they do often mix them up, but hey, i don't believe psychiatrists very much after they couldn't diagnose me for 2 years.... i had like five doctors, the sixth, a psychotherapist diagnosed me well in the end, and then all of a sudden it all made sense.
   
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Re: Is there a difference? - November 9th 2009, 10:02 PM

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believe me, they are different. very much. i have both and i can easily distinguish between what is what in me. they do often mix them up, but hey, i don't believe psychiatrists very much after they couldn't diagnose me for 2 years.... i had like five doctors, the sixth, a psychotherapist diagnosed me well in the end, and then all of a sudden it all made sense.
Unfortunately, psychologists and psychiatrists don't have as much of a concrete basis to work with as medical doctors. Medical doctors have exponentially more tests (which are more telling, as well) that they can run than those in the field of psychology. Also, a person with a medical issue is much less likely to hold back "embarrassing" medical symptoms from their doctor than a person with an embarrassing psychological symptom. They simply have to do the best with what they are provided with.

AlenRose_XX, not that I can change your mind, but I would urge you not to give up on seeking therapy, especially if you have Bipolar disorder. Bipolar disorder is quite treatable when diagnosed and treating it can greatly improve quality of life. It is not uncommon to go through a number of therapists before finding one that fits you.
   
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Re: Is there a difference? - November 9th 2009, 11:36 PM

If there's a huge difference between bipolar and borderline can you tell me? I'm kind of tired of doctors continually switching my diagnosis between them and if I had some sort of huge piece of evidence I could shove in their faces to say "Hey, I've got this not that, so you can help with this now instead of twiddling your thumbs." that'd be great.
Because from years of reading books and researching on the internet, I've failed to come up with one big thing that separates the two. If you think about it, a lot of the symptoms of borderline could be caused by someone reacting to the moods of bipolar in their own way.


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Re: Is there a difference? - November 10th 2009, 12:17 AM

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Originally Posted by LaFin View Post
If there's a huge difference between bipolar and borderline can you tell me? I'm kind of tired of doctors continually switching my diagnosis between them and if I had some sort of huge piece of evidence I could shove in their faces to say "Hey, I've got this not that, so you can help with this now instead of twiddling your thumbs." that'd be great.
Because from years of reading books and researching on the internet, I've failed to come up with one big thing that separates the two. If you think about it, a lot of the symptoms of borderline could be caused by someone reacting to the moods of bipolar in their own way.
Here are the Diagnostic criteria for each as seen in the DSM IV-TR...

Bipolar I (This is with the most recent episode unspecified)
A. Criteria, except for duration, are currently (or most recently) met for a Manic, a Hypomanic, a Mixed, or a Major Depressive Episode.
B. There has previously been at least one Manic Episode or Mixed Episode.
C. The mood symptoms cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.
D. The mood symptoms in Criteria A and B are not better accounted for by Schizoaffective Disorder and are not superimposed on Schizophrenia, Schizophreniform Disorder, Delusional Disorder, or Psychotic Disorder Not Otherwise Specified.
E. The mood symptoms in Criteria A and B are not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication, or other treatment) or a general medical condition (e.g., hyperthyroidism).


Bipolar II
A. Presence (or history) of one or more Major Depressive Episodes.
B. Presence (or history) of at least one Hypomanic Episode.
C. There has never been a Manic Episode or a Mixed Episode.
D. The mood symptoms in Criteria A and B are not better accounted for by Schizoaffective Disorder and are not superimposed on Schizophrenia, Schizophreniform Disorder, Delusional Disorder, or Psychotic Disorder Not Otherwise Specified.
E. The symptoms cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.


Borderline Personality Disorder
A pervasive pattern of instability of interpersonal relationships, self-image, and affects, and marked impulsivity beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

(1) frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5.
(2) a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation
(3) identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self
(4) impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating). Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5.
(5) recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats of self-mutilating behavior
(6) affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g .. intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days)
(7) chronic feelings of emptiness
(8) inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights)
(9) transient stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms


Simply by reading the criteria, there is a clear difference. As I said before, also, borderline is a much more encompassing diagnosis, whereas Bipolar is much more focused (and more treatable in most cases). It could very well be that the two are comorbid (occurring at the same time), and different doctors are focusing on one or the other and not making a comorbid diagnosis. Criterion 6 in borderline criteria could easily be mistaken for bipolar, depending on the situation. All in all, a borderline diagosis will usually reflect a more of a focus and effect on relationships.
   
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Re: Is there a difference? - November 10th 2009, 12:26 AM

But I don't have any problems with relationships, which is one of the reasons I've been confused as to why they keep saying I have it.
Do you have msn or something so that I can talk to you there? I feel kind of bad for intruding on a different person's thread and asking my own questions and I'd like to possibly talk about this more in depth.


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Re: Is there a difference? - November 10th 2009, 12:31 AM

I think I may also have borderline personality disorder....Awesome...

I just don't have the time or money to keep going to therapists and waiting to find the right one..... My best friend says there's nothing wrong with me and I don't need a therapist.....and I wanna believe him.....but I know there's something wrong with me.
I don't see a point in going to doctors that obviously can't diagnose you properly. Seems like a waste of time and money....
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Re: Is there a difference? - November 10th 2009, 01:12 AM

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Originally Posted by AlenRose_XX View Post
I think I may also have borderline personality disorder....Awesome...

I just don't have the time or money to keep going to therapists and waiting to find the right one..... My best friend says there's nothing wrong with me and I don't need a therapist.....and I wanna believe him.....but I know there's something wrong with me.
I don't see a point in going to doctors that obviously can't diagnose you properly. Seems like a waste of time and money....
Well, the best I can compare it to is this... If one doctor misdiagnosed you with a cold, and you actually had the flu, would you stop trusting all doctors? Like I said before, psychological diagnosis is admittedly more imperfect, but it is still very helpful.

Continuing with the medical analogy, if you feel that something is wrong physically, you would go to a medical doctor (i.e. the expert) and likely not think twice about it. If something is wrong psychologically, then why not go to the expert in that field.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaFin View Post
But I don't have any problems with relationships, which is one of the reasons I've been confused as to why they keep saying I have it.
Do you have msn or something so that I can talk to you there? I feel kind of bad for intruding on a different person's thread and asking my own questions and I'd like to possibly talk about this more in depth.
Feel free to PM me on here, I really don't use IM programs much any more. I also feel the need to remind you (and others reading this) that I am not a counselor, psychologist, or psychiatrist, and as such am not qualified to diagnose or treat. I just have to clarify that because if I don't, there are alot of legal ramifications.
   
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Re: Is there a difference? - November 10th 2009, 02:03 AM

Not to contradict you but, if I have a cold I usually wait it out. But if I had a broken leg I probably would go to the doctor.

Because being mentally sick is more complicated to diagnose and not really so deadly depending on what you have, or might have, and how bad you have it. I just don't have the time or money, that's what it all comes down to. Every time I see one they treat me like I'm five and I can tell that I'm way more intelligent than them. It pisses me off that they think I'm stupid just because I'm coming to see them for help.

It's not something I have the time to deal with.

(Excuse me I can't think correctly right now, sorry if I don't make sense.)
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Re: Is there a difference? - November 10th 2009, 02:44 AM

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Originally Posted by AlenRose_XX View Post
Because being mentally sick is more complicated to diagnose and not really so deadly depending on what you have, or might have, and how bad you have it. I just don't have the time or money, that's what it all comes down to. Every time I see one they treat me like I'm five and I can tell that I'm way more intelligent than them. It pisses me off that they think I'm stupid just because I'm coming to see them for help.

It's not something I have the time to deal with.

(Excuse me I can't think correctly right now, sorry if I don't make sense.)
Deadly, usually not, but it is still something that can drastically affect quality of life. Also, your perception of how they view you may not be in reality how they feel. From my experience, it is not how most counselors view clients.

In any event, it is your life and your choice. I am just trying to present the other side.
   
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Re: Is there a difference? - November 10th 2009, 03:26 AM

I suffer from Atypical Depression with Mixed Episodes, so I do get to experience a lot of the symptoms of Manic Depression. I came across Bipolar Disorder aswell, but I read the list of symptoms and what not, and I don't they're that much alike, the only similarity IMO is the mood swings.
   
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Re: Is there a difference? - November 10th 2009, 04:45 AM

I wanna see a therapist but they just don't make me feel like they care, it always feels like they're just there to get through the day and get their pay check....
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Re: Is there a difference? - November 10th 2009, 04:54 AM

There are a few differences between borderline personality disorder (BPD) and bipolar (I'll call it (BD). First, there are two main versions of B BD-1 and BD-2. Within BD-1 there are 6 subtypes although some are very similar. Generally though regardless of the subtype, you're told it's BD-1 for simplicity sake and because the subtype you have may change to another one.

Unlike BD which is on Axis I, BPD is on Axis II so it is quite possible to have both BD and BPD. BPD though has certain criteria and symptoms that BD lacks, such as dissociation. BD may occur with psychosis although that's not often referred to as dissociation. If you look at the criteria of BD and BPD though, you can see how BPD shares many similarities and some professionals consider BPD to be along the lines of a mood disorder.

The differences I think would be clearer though from a neurological or physiological standpoint because there may be some clear differences there. I'm not sure on this because I haven't studied these mechanisms for BPD but I would assume that there would be some similarities, however, there would also be some notable differences depending on the symptoms the individual has.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlenRose_XX
I don't see a point in going to doctors that obviously can't diagnose you properly. Seems like a waste of time and money....
Part of the problem when it comes to diagnosing is the manual used for diagnosing, the DSM-IV-TR. It has numerous problems and although each version is slightly better than the previous one, it still has many problems. For example, one of them is that it's atheoretical, meaning that the doctor has to decide how much discretion to use with psychological and psychiatric theories. Some doctors adhere to the DSM to the letter more than others. Another problem is that many of the criteria in the DSM are vague, ambiguous and subjective so the doctor is likely to impose their own views on something that's meant to be objective. For example, many criteria say things such as "normal", however, one big question in psychiatry is what exactly is the norm or normal?

There are various tests ranging from written tests by the patient to brain-imaging to neuropsychological tests, etc... and these can be more definitive sometimes.

So as much as you may resent the doctors, understand that the DSM and psychiatry isn't a particularly easy field of medicine to practice effectively.
   
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