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Exclamation Overdosing? Please help?! - May 18th 2011, 01:08 PM

This thread has been labeled as triggering, particularly on the subject of suicide, by the original poster or by a Moderator. The contents of this thread therefore might not be suitable for certain sensitive users. Please take this into consideration before continuing to read.

Is melatonin dangerous to OD on? My friend is saying that she has about 32 grams of it (something like 80 pills) and is threatening to down them all with a bottle of vodka!

I dont know what to do?! please help!


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Re: Overdosing? Please help?! - May 18th 2011, 01:37 PM

Any kind of drug that's taken with alcohol is potentially dangerous. 80 pills of any kind of drug you can OD on. There is always a label on the back that tells you to take so many pills during a 24 hour period.











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Re: Overdosing? Please help?! - May 18th 2011, 02:20 PM

i agree with shannon any medicine or drug is dangerous even possible vitamin pills can be dangerous and should see medical assistence so just because ur friend may say she feels fine she may be having side effects from it




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Re: Overdosing? Please help?! - May 18th 2011, 09:29 PM

Honestly, melatonin isn't really all that dangerous. After a quick search of the lethal dose of melatonin, high dosages even for long periods haven't been shown to do much but cause an upset stomach and make a person feel a bit sleepy; however, once alcohol is thrown into the equation, it gets grey. Alcohol tends to increase the effects and side effects of medications. To be honest, depending on the size of your friend and whatnot, I'd doubt she'd be able to finish a whole bottle of alcohol without passing out first or puking it all out of her system. That said, there's obviously reason for concern that she's trying to overdose in the first place.

I would call her family or the police at this point if you're this concerned. I'm sure you'd rather have an angry friend than a dead or sick friend. If she gets properly taken care of, she can get what help she needs with whatever is causing her to want to overdose.


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Re: Overdosing? Please help?! - May 19th 2011, 09:44 PM

Although most medications are affected by taking alcohol, in this case it may be beneficial. Alcohol causes a decrease in natural secretions of melatonin and its usage, so the same would occur for her. However, these effects aren't immediately expressed, so if she stays awake for at least an hour, then the alcohol would decrease the melatonin usage. On the other hand, if she's fast asleep after one hour, the alcohol still would have that effect but alcohol also acts as a barbituate so depending how much she takes, it would help to reduce the melatonin used while helping her sleep. Overall, she'd wake up from a nice long sleep and may have a hangover. Again, depending how long she stays awake for, she may also vomit as the body's natural way of expelling ingested toxins.

It's also beneficial in this sense because melatonin overdoses cause a drastic drop in blood pressure, which is dangerous if she has a known history of cardiovascular problems. However, alcohol helps to raise blood pressure over a long-term usage, so if she has been drinking for years and decides to take vodka with the melatonin, it may be healthier than taking melatonin overdose alone.

Like anything digested it's going to pass through the liver, so much of the melatonin may be removed there.

At the end of the day, it's not going to harm her but she seems unaware of that and assumes it may put her to sleep until death, which won't happen on melatonin.


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Re: Overdosing? Please help?! - May 19th 2011, 11:00 PM

ok i would just like to say that most of these posts are wrong. i take melatonin, and i know the risks. once you take more then 10-12 mg(pills are either 1 or 3 mg usually) you risk coma. if you take more, you are risking coma or death. every doctor i have seen has told me the same, so yes, its very dangerous, and she will OD if she takes them all
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Re: Overdosing? Please help?! - May 20th 2011, 12:36 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace And Love View Post
ok i would just like to say that most of these posts are wrong. i take melatonin, and i know the risks. once you take more then 10-12 mg(pills are either 1 or 3 mg usually) you risk coma. if you take more, you are risking coma or death. every doctor i have seen has told me the same, so yes, its very dangerous, and she will OD if she takes them all
Read these below quotes:

"And when researchers fed human volunteers 6 grams (6,000 mg) of the stuff every night for a month, stomach discomfort and some residual sleepiness were the only reported side effects."

"
Robbie Felix, a 40 year - old employment consultant in Silicon Valley, says she was a " chronic insomniac" until two years ago, when she read about melatonin on the Internet. Since then she has taken 15 to 20 milligrams every night (three to four times the typical dose), and slept soundly. "With traditional sleeping pills you're groggy the next day," she says. Not with this. "

"
Dr. James Jan of Vancouver, British Columbia's Children Hospital, has reported that bedtime doses of 2,5 to 10 milligrams help establish normal sleep patterns in kids with neurological problems such as autism, epilepsy. "

Why is it that 6,000 mg doesn't cause coma yet according to you, 10-12 mg will? Provide some sources for your claims, below is my source for all the above quotes:
http://www.frontiernet.net/~batory/articles.html


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Re: Overdosing? Please help?! - May 20th 2011, 03:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man And XX Master View Post
Read these below quotes:

"And when researchers fed human volunteers 6 grams (6,000 mg) of the stuff every night for a month, stomach discomfort and some residual sleepiness were the only reported side effects."

"
Robbie Felix, a 40 year - old employment consultant in Silicon Valley, says she was a " chronic insomniac" until two years ago, when she read about melatonin on the Internet. Since then she has taken 15 to 20 milligrams every night (three to four times the typical dose), and slept soundly. "With traditional sleeping pills you're groggy the next day," she says. Not with this. "

"
Dr. James Jan of Vancouver, British Columbia's Children Hospital, has reported that bedtime doses of 2,5 to 10 milligrams help establish normal sleep patterns in kids with neurological problems such as autism, epilepsy. "

Why is it that 6,000 mg doesn't cause coma yet according to you, 10-12 mg will? Provide some sources for your claims, below is my source for all the above quotes:
http://www.frontiernet.net/~batory/articles.html
Seconded. I found the exact same information on another website, though I can't find it at the moment. Either way, a quick google search of the lethal dose of melatonin will show that there is no lethal dose found. Honestly, the only way that melatonin could produce a coma in such small amounts would be if there was something else in it (not saying your medication is spiked obviously, but it probably has a second major ingredient or something).


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Re: Overdosing? Please help?! - May 20th 2011, 11:41 PM

Melatonin is more of a vitamin so taking that much isn't necessarily good, but its pretty harmless so I don't think that would actually kill her. And overdosing is a terrible idea, it is hard to die from it, and if you do its due to liver failure which is slow and painful.

Let her know your there for her and that this is a big mistake.


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Re: Overdosing? Please help?! - May 21st 2011, 07:40 AM

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Originally Posted by Melody View Post
Melatonin is more of a vitamin so taking that much isn't necessarily good, but its pretty harmless so I don't think that would actually kill her. And overdosing is a terrible idea, it is hard to die from it, and if you do its due to liver failure which is slow and painful.

Let her know your there for her and that this is a big mistake.
To be nit-picky, it's not a vitamin, it's a naturally-occurring hormone produced in the body. Do you have a source indicating death from melatonin is from liver failure? For other substances, liver failure is often not the only cause, as once failure begins, it results in other organs taking large hits and sometimes those organs will lead to death. You're correct, liver failure is slow but it won't be from just one exposure to the overdosed substance.


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Re: Overdosing? Please help?! - June 4th 2011, 02:16 AM

OMG ya'll can't believe everything on the internet, if someone takes the drugs and it came form a DOCTOR who has a DEGREE then I would go with first hand before I EVER believed anything off the internet..... I don't care what source it is.... It's a doctor and I am sure they guy has to tell his patients the risk, and if you go buy a Vitamin Bible even to much of a Vitamin can cause liver, kidney or heart failure...


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Re: Overdosing? Please help?! - June 4th 2011, 11:11 AM

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Originally Posted by BethanyAnn View Post
OMG ya'll can't believe everything on the internet, if someone takes the drugs and it came form a DOCTOR who has a DEGREE then I would go with first hand before I EVER believed anything off the internet..... I don't care what source it is.... It's a doctor and I am sure they guy has to tell his patients the risk, and if you go buy a Vitamin Bible even to much of a Vitamin can cause liver, kidney or heart failure...
Actually doctors are trained to be overly cautious. The truth is you can read medical journals online. Also one person against a load of studies? It would be irresponsible to choose the 1 person
   
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Re: Overdosing? Please help?! - June 4th 2011, 04:23 PM

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Originally Posted by Sapphire_Wings View Post
Actually doctors are trained to be overly cautious. The truth is you can read medical journals online. Also one person against a load of studies? It would be irresponsible to choose the 1 person
Well if that doctor is trained to be overly cautious then they all are and in that case they will all have about the same answer and I know they have medical journals online, and I took several medical classes, and we where always told when we are doing a paper, DO NOT use the internet no matter how reliable the source is, we always had to go to the library and medical books and read through these things, and yes any meds taken with alcohol is dangerous, and ANY meds can cause coma in excess, especially over dosing on vitamins


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Re: Overdosing? Please help?! - June 4th 2011, 04:39 PM

Actually you can buy melatonin pills over the counter, at least here. My psychiatrist recommended I try melatonin pills because they're not dangerous, they're hard to OD on (same as Neurontin, as I recall her saying, and Trazodone, a sleep med she later put me on), non-addictive, etc. I didn't need a prescription. I don't even think I had to ask my pharmacist; they're sitting out there in the isle like anything else. This isn't to say that over-the-counter drugs can't be harmful, because they can, and I don't know how the alcohol will effect the pills, though I'm inclined to agree with The Man and XX Master based on their knowledge of prescription drugs in general. If I remember correctly, it's not solely internet based? I believe it's actually their field of study. Not sure if I'm wrong on that... That being said, even if I'm one person on an internet (so technically an internet source? ), I was told to try Melatonin first and was told by both my psychiatrist and health doctor, and the pharmacist, that it was not dangerous. What I was told is directly in line with what The Man and XX Master and Keeley are saying.

I think the more important thing here is to address the reason she feels the need to do this in the first place.


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Re: Overdosing? Please help?! - June 5th 2011, 08:16 PM

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OMG ya'll can't believe everything on the internet, if someone takes the drugs and it came form a DOCTOR who has a DEGREE then I would go with first hand before I EVER believed anything off the internet..... I don't care what source it is.... It's a doctor and I am sure they guy has to tell his patients the risk, and if you go buy a Vitamin Bible even to much of a Vitamin can cause liver, kidney or heart failure...
The difference is the type of the Internet source: random person's webpage versus a series of medical journals. Keep in mind, these medical journals are written by doctors. Where do you think the clinical doctor gets information from? A key place is medical journals, the very things you're dismissing.

Essentially, you're saying you will ignore what thousands of doctors say but will listen to only one in particular. Does that make any sense? I read in the other post you took medical courses, so you should understand that saying melatonin can cause liver damage is nonsense. In 2010, four DOCTORS from China published in Mediators of Inflammation an article where they investigated how melatonin affects environment-related SLE and found it increases IL-2 while decreasing IL-6 and IL-13. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20706659

Once again, 4 DOCTORS versus 1 DOCTOR. Are you going to say the findings from these 4 DOCTORS are meaningless because it's available online? Would you say there is more worth if you looked in the Periodicals and found this issue of the journal? Although the content won't differ, according to you, it will matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BethanyAnn View Post
Well if that doctor is trained to be overly cautious then they all are and in that case they will all have about the same answer and I know they have medical journals online, and I took several medical classes, and we where always told when we are doing a paper, DO NOT use the internet no matter how reliable the source is, we always had to go to the library and medical books and read through these things, and yes any meds taken with alcohol is dangerous, and ANY meds can cause coma in excess, especially over dosing on vitamins
If you know anything about medical courses, you would know there are online scientific databases and e-books of paper books. Not using the Internet is nonsense because it implies these databases that researchers also use to get their sources, has no credibility. Look in paper books, many of them will have references from studies that can be accessed via the Internet. I'm sure your professor or instructor meant non-scientific websites or had you look up in the library to understand the value of reading a book. None of that implies databases, such as PubMed or Scopus are not reliable.

We're not talking about any vitamin or medication, we're talking about one specific kind, melatonin. Show me a medical study, medical site or reference to a medical book that specifically states over-dose on melatonin can cause coma.

From what you're posting, I find it very hard to believe you took any medical courses that you passed given what you're saying.


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June 6th 2011, 12:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man And XX Master View Post
The difference is the type of the Internet source: random person's webpage versus a series of medical journals. Keep in mind, these medical journals are written by doctors. Where do you think the clinical doctor gets information from? A key place is medical journals, the very things you're dismissing.

Essentially, you're saying you will ignore what thousands of doctors say but will listen to only one in particular. Does that make any sense? I read in the other post you took medical courses, so you should understand that saying melatonin can cause liver damage is nonsense. In 2010, four DOCTORS from China published in Mediators of Inflammation an article where they investigated how melatonin affects environment-related SLE and found it increases IL-2 while decreasing IL-6 and IL-13. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20706659

Once again, 4 DOCTORS versus 1 DOCTOR. Are you going to say the findings
from these 4 DOCTORS are meaningless because it's available online? Would you say there is more worth if you looked in the Periodicals and found this issue of the journal? Although the content won't differ, according to you, it will matter.



If you know anything about medical courses, you would know there are online scientific databases and e-books of paper books. Not using the Internet is nonsense because it implies these databases that researchers also use to get their sources, has no credibility. Look in paper books, many of them will have references from studies that can be accessed via the Internet. I'm sure your professor or instructor meant non-scientific websites or had you look up in the library to understand the value of reading a book. None of that implies databases, such as PubMed or Scopus are not reliable.

We're not talking about any vitamin or medication, we're talking about one specific kind, melatonin. Show me a medical study, medical site or reference to a medical book that specifically states over-dose on melatonin can cause coma.

From what you're posting, I find it very hard to believe you took any medical courses that you passed given what you're saying.
yes and that is actually why my heart doctor diagnosed my heart problem wrong in the first 3 times he used the internet, I do understand that there are reliable book sources online, but not EVERYTHING can be trusted. And thats why we filed a lawsuit against him, turned out I needed a pace maker, after all these drugs and stuff that I was taking was all uneeded and unnecessary, not to mention the radiation I was put through. A heart doctor had to actually sit down with medical books. And vitamins can be dangerous, and soo can anything over the counter, anything taken in an excess of something like 80 pills can put someone in coma with a whole bottle of vodka, yeah not saying the drug is dangerous or anything when taken the proper way but when taken in excess like that can harm you. And yes I was going to major in neurology and I am graduating 3rd in my class, I have a full ride scholarship to Tulane University one of the top medical schools in the country

There are no promais of suicide on melatonin, but people have over dosed on it and it can cause issues it may not be harmful, but it can still cause bad side affects,(headaches, nausea, depression, nightmares and vivid dreams, irritability, abdominal cramps and dizziness) ie. that is just normal possible side effects spike that times 80. It can also mess up a womens reproductive system
No one said it could kill you we said coma, enough side effects to be admitted to the hospital for a few hours, but no one said she could die, we just said when taken in an amount of 80 pills she would most likely have to go to the hospital, and a bottle of vodka plus that a bottle of vodka in itself can cause alcohol poisoning and with a drug that aids in sleeps, not a good combination, we have gotten way off subject the question was, Can my friend over dose on melatonin and a bottle of alcohol, yes you can overdose on that drug, but it is not harmful just a few hours in the hospital, and yes alcohol in that amount can seriously aid in the affects.
There have been no real studies on melatonin effects of over dose and it hasn't been studied that well by the FDA, it can be sold over the counter, and some doctors do prescribe it, just depends on the state you live in. the body naturally produces melatonin the pineal gland is responsible for that hormone. some people just have smaller levels of it and need more, it is mainly to improve sleep and combat insomnia (sleep disorder) but also relieve stress and anxiety.


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Re: Overdosing? Please help?! - June 6th 2011, 04:10 AM

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Originally Posted by BethanyAnn View Post
yes and that is actually why my heart doctor diagnosed my heart problem wrong in the first 3 times he used the internet, I do understand that there are reliable book sources online, but not EVERYTHING can be trusted. And thats why we filed a lawsuit against him, turned out I needed a pace maker, after all these drugs and stuff that I was taking was all uneeded and unnecessary, not to mention the radiation I was put through. A heart doctor had to actually sit down with medical books. And vitamins can be dangerous, and soo can anything over the counter, anything taken in an excess of something like 80 pills can put someone in coma with a whole bottle of vodka, yeah not saying the drug is dangerous or anything when taken the proper way but when taken in excess like that can harm you. And yes I was going to major in neurology and I am graduating 3rd in my class, I have a full ride scholarship to Tulane University one of the top medical schools in the country
That is your cardiologist's fault, not the fault of the Internet. It may also be whatever you have was not clear to him/her. Nevertheless, saying not all sites on the Internet can be trusted is exactly like saying not all books can be trusted, however, you're denying the latter. That is excellent regarding your scholarship but don't think I'm uneducated in the slightest. I'm currently in university, about to begin two (possibly three, once the university decides to respond ), including one that focuses in pharmacology and another that focuses more at an organ level, especially of the nervous system. My other second-level and third-level year courses were in neurobiology.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BethanyAnn View Post
There are no promais of suicide on melatonin, but people have over dosed on it and it can cause issues it may not be harmful, but it can still cause bad side affects,(headaches, nausea, depression, nightmares and vivid dreams, irritability, abdominal cramps and dizziness) ie. that is just normal possible side effects spike that times 80. It can also mess up a womens reproductive system
While much of that is true, none of it leads to coma by taking the medication only.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BethanyAnn View Post
No one said it could kill you we said coma, enough side effects to be admitted to the hospital for a few hours, but no one said she could die, we just said when taken in an amount of 80 pills she would most likely have to go to the hospital
Again, researchers have said the symptoms are negligible. The fact she may have to go to a hospital for a few hours is irrelevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BethanyAnn View Post
Can my friend over dose on melatonin and a bottle of alcohol, yes you can overdose on that drug, but it is not harmful just a few hours in the hospital, and yes alcohol in that amount can seriously aid in the affects.
There have been no real studies on melatonin effects of over dose and it hasn't been studied that well by the FDA, it can be sold over the counter, and some doctors do prescribe it, just depends on the state you live in.
I will admit there are not many studies on melatonin overdose, however, there are studies nonetheless. Saying there are no real studies is silly because not only are there the findings I posted, you openly referred to them.

If you do have access to online journal databases, regardless of some Internet sites being unreliable, try using them to see how many studies there are, general interest on a topic, etc... . You said you're not in university yet so you may not have access to entire articles.


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Re: Overdosing? Please help?! - June 6th 2011, 05:33 AM

Yeah, I take it, it's not terribly dangerous, would probably just cause an upset stomach.
However, if she's threatening this, she has more issues than just having melatonin, and if she were ever to have something more dangerous, she might be at risk. I would call her parents, because this type of behavior is not healthy either way.


I said to the sun, "Tell me about the big bang"
& the sun said it hurts to become."
Andrea Gibson, "I Sing The Body Electric; Especially When My Power Is Out"
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