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Flag Burning - June 11th 2013, 07:42 AM

I don't understand why this of all things is a controversial topic. Flags are really outdated as they used militarily for the most part and now that its the modern age and people burn them its a whole thing.

The way I see it is:
1. They bought the flag, if they want to burn it, its their right. Its like burning a shirt with the American flag on it, or lighting a newspaper on fire.

2. If its not the one George Washington stitched as Thomas Jefferson bled to death on after the Revolution, what does it matter?

3. I understand people see it as a symbol of the country or freedom or whatever, but these things are fabric mass produced in China. Its a product and really nothing more at this point unless its to identify ambassadors and sorts in high level politics and at the point its a physical emblem not a flag.

What are peoples' thoughts on this controversy? Why is it such a big deal to people? Why do people disagree or can see people disagreeing with what I'm saying?


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Re: Flag Burning - June 11th 2013, 07:46 AM

I don't care either. It's a much more peaceful way to protest than others, I really couldn't care less.


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Re: Flag Burning - June 11th 2013, 10:00 AM

The flag represents the nation and the people that fought and died to protect it, burning the flag should be illegal (exc. respectful disposal).

I wouldn't burn a soviet flag, a Nazi flag, or an American flag.


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Re: Flag Burning - June 11th 2013, 01:47 PM

I agree 100% with everything the OP said. Especially the third point. Flags don't really have any unique identity anymore. For crying out loud, I could walk down to the pound shop right now and buy an Irish flag for €2 if I wanted to. Flags are just a product these days.
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Re: Flag Burning - June 11th 2013, 06:57 PM

I agree too; I understand some people are very proud of their country and are very against it, but really, flags are mass produced and there are a lot worse ways to protest.


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Re: Flag Burning - June 11th 2013, 08:48 PM

To most people, a flag may just be a product... To me and millions of Troops, the flag of their country is the most sacred thing ever. Honor Guards & Color Guards drill thousands of hours into presenting their flag. I don't see how burning a flag solves any protest besides making an angry nation of the flag you burnt. I have burned many American flags that needed to be retired in the way you're suppose to retire the flag. But being idiotic with matches is just disrespectful to the Troops who defended those colors, and the Chinese workers who worked to make it for 2 cents a day.

Yes, its Freedom of Speech to "burn" the flag. Just like its my right to burn a Bible or a Koran; in the end, it doesn't do anything besides make people angry.


   
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Re: Flag Burning - June 12th 2013, 09:34 AM

Can't help but agree with the boys here, being in Cadets myself there is no greater honour to be bestowed thant to guard the flag in ceremonies. It's a very important tradition. Just because it is not 'as violent' as other forms of protests, does not make it okay! We should not encourage violence, and honestly burning things is hardly peaceful... Use your words!

Another thing, the flag represents the people of a country, and the good and the values and morals that are its foundations, not some political opponent or a political party. Burning flags is just an insult to yourself and your mates - and to everyone who has sought to uphold the great merits of their nation. Every time you burn the flag of your country, a little bit of it dies - until one day it is worth nothing.
   
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Re: Flag Burning - June 12th 2013, 12:48 PM

Represents, represents, represents. Who cares what the fuck it represents? It's not hurting anyone. People can be angry about it if they want, that's their own business.

As far as I'm concerned, if a bunch of nutcases burned an Irish flag, I wouldn't be too bothered. I'd just think they were eejits. If they carried out an act of violence against anyone who identified as Irish, that's a whole different kettle of fish.

For me, a flag represents very little. One who protects the flag of Éire is doing as much for our island as the honest everyday people who work or study or do whatever they do to the best of their ability. That's what makes a nation, not a piece of fabric produced by some young fella in China.
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Re: Flag Burning - June 12th 2013, 11:13 PM

Flags represent lots of things.

I feel pride when I see the Scottish saltire, but if I go on someone's FB profile and it's splattered all over the place, then I'll think that person's an idiot who wants to act out Braveheart. Likewise, if someone has the Union Jack plastered everywhere, I'll think they're one of these "God save the Queen" English Defence League hooligans.

Burn what you want as protest. It's not very loud. Like most people have said, they don't care if you burn it, so what kind of protest is it if no one cares?

No country is so proud that they should be able to wave a flag about and see it as a symbol to beam with pride at. Every nation is flawed, and for me, a flag simply shows a symbol of a country. I'm a proud Scot, happy to be Scottish and would never moan about it, but man, if I went around waving a Scottish flag about, I'd hope someone would intervene and give me a smack.




   
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Re: Flag Burning - June 12th 2013, 11:20 PM

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Originally Posted by Snufkin View Post
I feel pride when I see the Scottish saltire, but if I go on someone's FB profile and it's splattered all over the place, then I'll think that person's an idiot who wants to act out Braveheart. Likewise, if someone has the Union Jack plastered everywhere, I'll think they're one of these "God save the Queen" English Defence League hooligans.
I have to agree with this as well. (yet I'm the one with the tricolour signature, ironic, I know... )

To be honest, I don't think that sort of an idea exists with the American flag. Correct me if I'm wrong as I've never visited the United States, but I'd imagine it's considered fairly normal for people to wave the flag around. However, a house with an Irish flag hanging out from the window over here would attract quite a few stares. People would even go as far as thinking the house was occupied by an IRA member.
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Re: Flag Burning - June 14th 2013, 08:12 PM

It's the whole patriotism thing. Which is fine. I don't feel much patriotism towards any country. Probably because I grew up in several, and also I know that it's just part of the way I am. I question things, and don't regard anything as something "perfect" enough for me to worship it in any way.

What irritates me the same way in which some religious nut-job fanatics have expected me to follow their religion... is the way some people have expected me to feel patriotic, and slated me for not being so. Well, sorry. Fuck them just as much as the religious nutjobs. I don't do flag burning because I've been given no reason to, and don't really see anything constructive coming out of something like that... but my point is, people need to stop being so over-reactive and intolerant. Both sides.

Someone burnt a flag? Good. Be happy for them that they've satisfied their primitive mind by doing something so pointless, instead of for example detonating a car bomb. It changes nothing. Burning a country's flag doesn't kill more troops, it doesn't result in nuclear winter, it doesn't cause flooding or financial crashes. It doesn't do anything besides irritate people, which is really up to those very people to figure out why they are irritated over these things. I've long ago decided to ignore the occasional asshole who has something condescending or offensive to say to me. Do the same. They are idiots.


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Re: Flag Burning - June 16th 2013, 08:58 PM

First off, aren't flags supposed to be burned when you dispose of them?

The whole point of flag burning is to incite and offend people. That is why people burn Qu'rans, Bibles, etc. The intent is offensive. However, offensive should not be illegal and people have the right to be offensive.
   
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Re: Flag Burning - June 16th 2013, 10:36 PM

IMO anyone who burns a flag as a form of protest should be convicted of treason.


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Re: Flag Burning - June 16th 2013, 10:52 PM

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Originally Posted by Oracle. View Post


I have to agree with this as well. (yet I'm the one with the tricolour signature, ironic, I know... )

To be honest, I don't think that sort of an idea exists with the American flag. Correct me if I'm wrong as I've never visited the United States, but I'd imagine it's considered fairly normal for people to wave the flag around. However, a house with an Irish flag hanging out from the window over here would attract quite a few stares. People would even go as far as thinking the house was occupied by an IRA member.
Yes, flags are everywhere in the US. I'd say one in three houses on my street have a flag out all of the time, and during patriotic holidays, basically everybody. We're a bit odd.


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Re: Flag Burning - June 17th 2013, 12:37 AM

It depends on where you live in the USA. In my area, you see more sports flags than country flags.

Should it be treason? No. Freedom of speech is important. In the USA, we were founded on rebelling.
   
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Re: Flag Burning - June 17th 2013, 01:26 AM

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It depends on where you live in the USA. In my area, you see more sports flags than country flags.

Should it be treason? No. Freedom of speech is important. In the USA, we were founded on rebelling.
go to china,hong kong,iraq,russia,korea and burn their flag and see what the military does to you.... you'd be lucky to make it out alive.

as for freedom of speech considering the country your in gave it to you along with the people who fought in died in countless battles and wars for what the flag stands for burning the flag is pretty disrespectful to both the people who live here and the people who died protecting what it represents..


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Re: Flag Burning - June 17th 2013, 01:30 AM

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It depends on where you live in the USA. In my area, you see more sports flags than country flags.

Should it be treason? No. Freedom of speech is important. In the USA, we were founded on rebelling.
This is also true. I will provably have a college flag outside my future home before an American flag.


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Re: Flag Burning - June 17th 2013, 03:26 AM

S
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go to china,hong kong,iraq,russia,korea and burn their flag and see what the military does to you.... you'd be lucky to make it out alive.

as for freedom of speech considering the country your in gave it to you along with the people who fought in died in countless battles and wars for what the flag stands for burning the flag is pretty disrespectful to both the people who live here and the people who died protecting what it represents..
Which is why I am glad that I live in a country that doesn't do that to people that disagree with the country and instead decides to protest. Would anyone want their country to do something to that to a person for burning a flag? If you live in the USA, what would you think those countries would do to the people who participate in a modern tea party by the Boston docks? Send them to labor camps?

In a twisted way, to prohibit the people's rights to protest in anyway is also to step on what people have fought for. People do not want to be under such a tyrannical rule that they cannot protest. To be blindly in love with a symbol is wrong and not advisable.

In my country, it was founded on actions that were considered very offensive by the country that they were founded with. The Boston Tea Party was a slap. The colonists were getting tea cheaper than most people but they still threw a fit that there was a tax. The tax that the colonists had is but a fraction of what we pay to the government today. The colonists actions were far more offensive than people burning the flag in today's society.

So I defend the right to freedom of speech. I do not like what most people say, but I will defend the right to say it.
   
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Re: Flag Burning - June 17th 2013, 03:46 AM

I just think it's disrespectful. It may not physically be an emblem without some special occasion to give it power, and thomas jefferson may not have bled on it...but it is a memory of the lives our leaders have disposed of in the war, the warriors who gave their lives for a country who didn't put a whole lot of value on their lives. Burning a flag is the ultimate slap in the face. Especially because in the world war the men who gave there lives didn't always volunteer either, they were drafted and died well before their time or watched their friends die horrific deaths.


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Re: Flag Burning - June 17th 2013, 03:46 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarasa View Post
S
Which is why I am glad that I live in a country that doesn't do that to people that disagree with the country and instead decides to protest. Would anyone want their country to do something to that to a person for burning a flag? If you live in the USA, what would you think those countries would do to the people who participate in a modern tea party by the Boston docks? Send them to labor camps?

In a twisted way, to prohibit the people's rights to protest in anyway is also to step on what people have fought for. People do not want to be under such a tyrannical rule that they cannot protest. To be blindly in love with a symbol is wrong and not advisable.

In my country, it was founded on actions that were considered very offensive by the country that they were founded with. The Boston Tea Party was a slap. The colonists were getting tea cheaper than most people but they still threw a fit that there was a tax. The tax that the colonists had is but a fraction of what we pay to the government today. The colonists actions were far more offensive than people burning the flag in today's society.

So I defend the right to freedom of speech. I do not like what most people say, but I will defend the right to say it.
im in the usa and if i happened to see someone burning my countries flag my pepper spray might accidently get dropped into the flames while i quickly walk away

i compare burning the flag to what the westboro babtist church does at soldiers funerals....


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Re: Flag Burning - June 17th 2013, 07:53 PM

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im in the usa and if i happened to see someone burning my countries flag my pepper spray might accidently get dropped into the flames while i quickly walk away

i compare burning the flag to what the westboro babtist church does at soldiers funerals....
I am afraid that is one of the saddest things I have ever heard. Seriously. You would be willing to resort to violence because someone does not agree with you? You would attack another human being because they do not agree with you and are protesting in a manner that is not causing physical harm to you or another person? I hope you were trying to be funny and would not actually carry this out.

If you honestly did that, that would be the opposite of one of the core beliefs of what Americans should have. Notice I said should because I understand that there are people who do not understand what freedom of speech stands for.

Westboro Baptist Church is a joke that has been overpublicized. Their membership is around the 70s last time I checked. They need to be ignored. It's sad how mMy high school class had more members than the Westboro Baptist Church. However, they have the right to voice their opinion. To take away that right is just one step closer to taking away the right to freedom of speech.

I do have a question, do you support the freedom of speech?
Quote:

I just think it's disrespectful. It may not physically be an emblem without some special occasion to give it power, and thomas jefferson may not have bled on it...but it is a memory of the lives our leaders have disposed of in the war, the warriors who gave their lives for a country who didn't put a whole lot of value on their lives. Burning a flag is the ultimate slap in the face. Especially because in the world war the men who gave there lives didn't always volunteer either, they were drafted and died well before their time or watched their friends die horrific deaths.
It is disrespectful, but it should not be considered treason or a crime. I don't agree with it but I will defend people's rights.
   
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Re: Flag Burning - June 17th 2013, 08:27 PM

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I am afraid that is one of the saddest things I have ever heard. Seriously. You would be willing to resort to violence because someone does not agree with you? You would attack another human being because they do not agree with you and are protesting in a manner that is not causing physical harm to you or another person? I hope you were trying to be funny and would not actually carry this out.

If you honestly did that, that would be the opposite of one of the core beliefs of what Americans should have. Notice I said should because I understand that there are people who do not understand what freedom of speech stands for.

Westboro Baptist Church is a joke that has been overpublicized. Their membership is around the 70s last time I checked. They need to be ignored. It's sad how mMy high school class had more members than the Westboro Baptist Church. However, they have the right to voice their opinion. To take away that right is just one step closer to taking away the right to freedom of speech.

I do have a question, do you support the freedom of speech?

It is disrespectful, but it should not be considered treason or a crime. I don't agree with it but I will defend people's rights.
Actually I am serious I have had numerous family members die to defend the flag desecrating is like spitting in their face in my opinion.

As for freedom of speech I believe in freedom of SPEECH say what you want about the flag but don't desecrate it..

If you believe in freedom of speech so much dare you to walk into a movie theatre and scream FIRE or go into a court house and yell BOMB. freedom of speech don't cover that and it shouldn't cover flag burning.


There's a reason that there has been a law brought up a few times in the senate against flag burning..


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Re: Flag Burning - June 17th 2013, 08:56 PM

Quote:
Actually I am serious I have had numerous family members die to defend the flag desecrating is like spitting in their face in my opinion.
While it may feel like that, it does not give you the right to physically attack them. Have a counter protest. Talk to them (notice I said talk, not scream or yell). Hold signs up to counter protest their burning of the flags. You're not a two-year-old who will attack others because they don't agree with you.

Quote:
As for freedom of speech I believe in freedom of SPEECH say what you want about the flag but don't desecrate it..
You did learn in school that freedom of speech is not just about freedom of speech, right? If you limit people's rights to express themselves in a matter that is not destructive to others or their property, then we are no better than other countries that we complain about. Just because you do not like it does not give you the right to limit it.

Quote:
If you believe in freedom of speech so much dare you to walk into a movie theatre and scream FIRE or go into a court house and yell BOMB. freedom of speech don't cover that and it shouldn't cover flag burning.
I don't think you understand what will happen in that case. People will panic and people tend to run towards the direction they came in even if there are other clearly marked exits. People may hurt each other in an attempt to get out. That is destructive to other people.

You still haven't justified why it should not be protected except it bothers you personally and you find it offensive.
Quote:

There's a reason that there has been a law brought up a few times in the senate against flag burning..
And there's a reason why it has not passed.

Do you think your family members that fought would find it okay that you support censorship?
   
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Re: Flag Burning - June 17th 2013, 09:09 PM

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Originally Posted by Sarasa View Post
While it may feel like that, it does not give you the right to physically attack them. Have a counter protest. Talk to them (notice I said talk, not scream or yell). Hold signs up to counter protest their burning of the flags. You're not a two-year-old who will attack others because they don't agree with you.

You did learn in school that freedom of speech is not just about freedom of speech, right? If you limit people's rights to express themselves in a matter that is not destructive to others or their property, then we are no better than other countries that we complain about. Just because you do not like it does not give you the right to limit it.

I don't think you understand what will happen in that case. People will panic and people tend to run towards the direction they came in even if there are other clearly marked exits. People may hurt each other in an attempt to get out. That is destructive to other people.

You still haven't justified why it should not be protected except it bothers you personally and you find it offensive.

And there's a reason why it has not passed.
actually it almost passed in a few years back according to wiki except it need 1 more vote to have 2/3rds of the vote..

it being offensive to million of americans is enough reason that it shouldnt be allowed.. i learn what freedom of speech means dont mean i have to like it i only believe in you should be able to protest verbally once your start destroying stuff..

who said im gonna harm them im just gonna drop a can of compressed air filled with a eye irritant not my fault if it fell out of my bag.. tho i do live by the phillosophy of an eye for an eye and dont believe in protest were in fucking 2013 if you dont like what your goverment is doing leave no one is forcing them to stay.

well according to you support freedom of speech completely so you should be able to do that no matter what happens to other since you didnt cause the harm directly its not your fault from what your saying..

just like a soldier shouldnt come back from war and see on tv or in the streets people burning the flag in protest could make them go off the deep end.


anyways im no longer gonna respond i refuse to talk to anyone who thinks its okay to disrespect soldiers and the american flag


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Re: Flag Burning - June 17th 2013, 09:36 PM

Would the president have signed it? Probably to look good. Then the courts would have struck it down.

Oh wait... the Supreme Court already ruled on it (multiple times) and ruled that burning the flag is protected under freedom of speech.

You're talking about the amendment because all the other laws passed were struck down in the court. It would have needed 1 more vote to be sent to the state senates where it would need to be voted and pass 3/4 of the states legislation bodies. Not as easy as it seems, eh?

Quote:
it being offensive to million of americans is enough reason that it shouldnt be allowed.. i learn what freedom of speech means dont mean i have to like it i only believe in you should be able to protest verbally once your start destroying stuff..
Why? Please explain further. Why should people not be allowed to destroy property belonging to them?

Quote:
who said im gonna harm them im just gonna drop a can of compressed air filled with a eye irritant not my fault if it fell out of my bag..
You are a disturbed individual if you honestly think that is not attacking someone.

Quote:
tho i do live by the phillosophy of an eye for an eye and dont believe in protest were in fucking 2013 if you dont like what your goverment is doing leave no one is forcing them to stay.
An eye for an eye would you be protesting against them. Physically causing someone harm is not an "eye for an eye" in this case. If you truly believe that, then the cops should mace you when they catch you.

Quote:
well according to you support freedom of speech completely so you should be able to do that no matter what happens to other since you didnt cause the harm directly its not your fault from what your saying..
You're putting words in my mouth. I support their right to do a peaceful protest. You're comparing apples and oranges. Yes they are both fruits, but an apple is not an orange. Think about it.

Quote:
just like a soldier shouldnt come back from war and see on tv or in the streets people burning the flag in protest could make them go off the deep end.
Lots of things can trigger PTSD. Still not a reason to ban the freedom of expression.
Quote:
anyways im no longer gonna respond i refuse to talk to anyone who thinks its okay to disrespect soldiers and the american flag
I didn't say it was okay. I said they have the right. There is a huge difference. I don't have to agree with something to support their right to freedom of speech.

Also, I find your assumption that I am disrespecting the soldiers. I find your belief on this matter just as disrespectful for all the people who wanted to uphold the word freedom. You have to take the good with bad.

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Re: Flag Burning - June 17th 2013, 10:05 PM

Here's my thinking on it:

Yes it's disrespectful. But so is name-calling, bullying, and other random problems that are not illegal in the US. It's a freedom of speech thing. People can take part in it if they want to. Does it have consequences? Absolutely. Freedom of Speech doesn't mean that every person has to agree with it, it just means they have a right to express themselves. If expressing themselves in that way offends you, then you have the right to either discuss the matter and hold your own civil protest against it, or disregard those people. It's the same as when somebody says something you don't like. It's not illegal for them to say it, but it does have consequences. I personally wouldn't burn a flag, though I have participated in the retiring of the flag in several ceremonies. That being said, I don't have a problem with other people burning it for protest. I mean, don't get me wrong, I feel like it is disrespectful. There are people who fight for those colors and that flag resembles a lot to many people. However, we as Americans do not have the right to say which form of expression is acceptable and which is not. You can judge (just like you would when people express themselves with tattoos, drugs, art, fashion sense, word choice, whatever), but you cannot prevent them from doing it.

I don't see why it is such an issue, unless I find them pulling down an American flag from my house or worse, the White House.
   
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Re: Flag Burning - June 18th 2013, 09:42 AM

Don't try to force or intimidate other people in any way having the same beliefs and values that you do.

You'll most likely fail, make too many enemies, and die feeling alone.


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.


   
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Re: Flag Burning - June 18th 2013, 01:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by semiunbalanced View Post
Here's my thinking on it:

Yes it's disrespectful. But so is name-calling, bullying, and other random problems that are not illegal in the US. It's a freedom of speech thing. People can take part in it if they want to. Does it have consequences? Absolutely. Freedom of Speech doesn't mean that every person has to agree with it, it just means they have a right to express themselves. If expressing themselves in that way offends you, then you have the right to either discuss the matter and hold your own civil protest against it, or disregard those people. It's the same as when somebody says something you don't like. It's not illegal for them to say it, but it does have consequences. I personally wouldn't burn a flag, though I have participated in the retiring of the flag in several ceremonies. That being said, I don't have a problem with other people burning it for protest. I mean, don't get me wrong, I feel like it is disrespectful. There are people who fight for those colors and that flag resembles a lot to many people. However, we as Americans do not have the right to say which form of expression is acceptable and which is not. You can judge (just like you would when people express themselves with tattoos, drugs, art, fashion sense, word choice, whatever), but you cannot prevent them from doing it.

I don't see why it is such an issue, unless I find them pulling down an American flag from my house or worse, the White House.
I agree. Plus the last piece would be theft or destruction of property which would be infringing on the other person's rights.
   
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Re: Flag Burning - June 19th 2013, 01:44 AM

I wouldn't tell other people to stop doing it unless I knew they were doing it specifically to start spreading hate towards a country. If teenagers were doing it because they were bored and wanted to do something stupid that'd be fine with me because it wouldn't be a personal affront toward the country in my eyes. However, if there was a gang of people out there who had purchased about 400 flags of a bunch of countries or of one specific country and were trying to do it to spread hate I would speak up and tell them to stop immediately. You have one life to live and if you live it spreading hate than that's damn pathetic. Get the heck out of here.
Also, Oracle, it matters what the flag represents to people. You would have a serious problem with someone if they burned your wedding ring which typically represents unity with you and your loved one for the rest of your life.
   
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Re: Flag Burning - June 28th 2013, 04:23 AM

You know what actually I think this is kind of like the "n" word. People shouldn't use it because it offends people. If you are using it despite the fact that other people find it offensive you are part of the problem. So don't burn flags and try to let other people know not to burn them if they engage in doing so.
   
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Re: Flag Burning - June 28th 2013, 07:49 AM

i believe if someone wants to burn a flag, its there right (protected under first amendment)
I personally would burn the american flag because my country is a piece of shit...and if i had the money to move then i sure as hell would

Anyone who disagree's with me. Keep your comments to yourself please. I dont have time for it.
   
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Re: Flag Burning - June 28th 2013, 08:09 AM

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Originally Posted by hannahgreenwood View Post
Also, Oracle, it matters what the flag represents to people. You would have a serious problem with someone if they burned your wedding ring which typically represents unity with you and your loved one for the rest of your life.
>to people
Doesn't the term "people" include me? Why am I not one of the "people" as much as anyone else?

I actually consider myself to be fairly patriotic. I'm proud to be from Ireland. I would give up my life to save this country. I was brought up to have pride in Ireland, as well as in the city and county I live in, because one should be proud of where one is from.

But not once did I see the Irish flag as overly important. It's the same as the pi symbol representing 3.14somethingorother. Unless you're in the military, the Olympics squad or it's St. Patrick's Day, it's hard to see the importance of it, especially when Tesco sell them for a few Euros.

I don't believe in a world of symbols. I believe in actions, not representations of actions. The truth is, if someone "burned my wedding ring", it wouldn't be the end of the world for me, presuming myself and my partner were still alive and well, and in love with each other. I wouldn't be overjoyed, but it wouldn't be a massive disaster. Like I mentioned above, the best service one can do for Ireland is not to uphold the flag, but to uphold the nation, by doing their best in whatever they do to contribute to the Republic.

TL;DR - I don't believe in a piece of fabric representing four and a half million people. Just an opinion.

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Re: Flag Burning - July 1st 2013, 04:19 AM

That's fine and you are entitled to your opinion and I am not going to tell you that yo uare not patiotic but quite honestly this is a very simple thing... you know that when you do this someone out there somehow may feel very frustrated over it. While you may feel that they are completely off base to say that what you are doing when burning a flag is wrong it's best to not cause a bunch of problems so just steer clear of it. I don't think you NEED to burn a flag. It is in your rights to do so just the same way it is in our rights to curse at people but I think it's best honestly to just not start anything with anyone. If you do want to be able to have flag burning socially accepted than disrespecting people is not going to gain any understanding toward that idea.

I really feel like this is just like the "n" word. Just don't do it because you know it will offend someone. You have a right to do it but if you know it will anger someone than really don't aim for it.
   
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Re: Flag Burning - July 1st 2013, 05:10 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by hannahgreenwood View Post
That's fine and you are entitled to your opinion and I am not going to tell you that yo uare not patiotic but quite honestly this is a very simple thing... you know that when you do this someone out there somehow may feel very frustrated over it. While you may feel that they are completely off base to say that what you are doing when burning a flag is wrong it's best to not cause a bunch of problems so just steer clear of it. I don't think you NEED to burn a flag. It is in your rights to do so just the same way it is in our rights to curse at people but I think it's best honestly to just not start anything with anyone. If you do want to be able to have flag burning socially accepted than disrespecting people is not going to gain any understanding toward that idea.

I really feel like this is just like the "n" word. Just don't do it because you know it will offend someone. You have a right to do it but if you know it will anger someone than really don't aim for it.
This is my life philosophy.
I'm not here to please people so if it angers someone then oh well.
Them being angry isn't going to stop me from expressing my opinion.

I have that right and if i want to burn a flag then i will and if someone gets upset. Boo hoo. Cry me a river, I'm not here to please you or anyone else, if you don't like what i'm doing, go to a protest or something but regardless i'm not going to stop expressing my opinions whether its flag burning or not
   
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Re: Flag Burning - July 1st 2013, 10:13 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by hannahgreenwood View Post
That's fine and you are entitled to your opinion and I am not going to tell you that yo uare not patiotic but quite honestly this is a very simple thing... you know that when you do this someone out there somehow may feel very frustrated over it. While you may feel that they are completely off base to say that what you are doing when burning a flag is wrong it's best to not cause a bunch of problems so just steer clear of it. I don't think you NEED to burn a flag. It is in your rights to do so just the same way it is in our rights to curse at people but I think it's best honestly to just not start anything with anyone. If you do want to be able to have flag burning socially accepted than disrespecting people is not going to gain any understanding toward that idea.

I really feel like this is just like the "n" word. Just don't do it because you know it will offend someone. You have a right to do it but if you know it will anger someone than really don't aim for it.
It's up to the person offended by it, to be offended by it. Whether it's flag burning or racial insults, you can choose whether or not you take offense to it.

So, if somebody is ridiculous enough to take offense to some gobshite burning a flag, that's their choice.
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Re: Flag Burning - July 2nd 2013, 04:59 AM

I think there's a lot of power though to not understanding what it is about something that people don't like but just respecting it anyway and deciding to be caring towards their opinion, especially when it's people who have died before you to keep you alive.
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Re: Flag Burning - July 2nd 2013, 07:51 AM

I don't think anyone doubts that flag burning is offensive. That is the point of it. However, offensive speech is still protected.
   
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Re: Flag Burning - July 4th 2013, 03:30 AM

Offensive speech is still protected. They have the right to say and do whatever they want. I will never not acknowledge that. But you all asked for a solution to this flag burning dilemma and I said yes, you have the right to do so and you may have plenty of reasons to want to burn a flag but if you know it will piss someone off than is it really a good idea? There are some things you should just not do because it will really backfire on you in a thousand other ways. If you truly want your voice about flag burning to be heard do you think saying, "screw it. you have control over your emotions and even though I know you care about this item I am going to destroy it anyway is really going to get people to listen to what you have to say?" You can acknowledge that if this were a wedding ring which represents something valuable to you you would really not want anyone to tamper with that period but there's some sort of SPECIAL EXCEPTION TO THAT RULE WHEN IT COMES TO SOMEONE ELSE'S POSSESSION!! Seriously??
   
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Wink Re: Flag Burning - July 6th 2013, 11:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by hannahgreenwood View Post
Offensive speech is still protected. They have the right to say and do whatever they want. I will never not acknowledge that. But you all asked for a solution to this flag burning dilemma and I said yes, you have the right to do so and you may have plenty of reasons to want to burn a flag but if you know it will piss someone off than is it really a good idea? There are some things you should just not do because it will really backfire on you in a thousand other ways. If you truly want your voice about flag burning to be heard do you think saying, "screw it. you have control over your emotions and even though I know you care about this item I am going to destroy it anyway is really going to get people to listen to what you have to say?" You can acknowledge that if this were a wedding ring which represents something valuable to you you would really not want anyone to tamper with that period but there's some sort of SPECIAL EXCEPTION TO THAT RULE WHEN IT COMES TO SOMEONE ELSE'S POSSESSION!! Seriously??
I'm not really sure what you are saying. I do think that protecting offensive speech is a good idea. At the end of the day, people will take offense at nearly anything. Who should have the right to regulate what is considered offensive? The government? Even the FCC takes it too far already.

It's never a good idea to truly piss people off but people still have the right to try.

I have no intentions of getting married or participating in the concept of a "contract" to show that I am dedicated to a person. The wedding ring doesn't bother me. Buy a bunch and melt them down. I don't really care what people do with their money. As for something as a symbol? I don't think I can think of any material possession that is so important that I would stop the freedom of expression if they owned it.

People get so tied up in symbols that is ridiculous. People have started riots over sports teams. People have started riots over neo nazis marching in the street to protest white suppression or something.
   
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Re: Flag Burning - July 9th 2013, 01:03 AM

I am completely against the idea myself, for moral reasons. Why first of all would you want to burn the American Flag or any countries flag. Secondly, its become such a symbol you know, for our freedom, our rights, our liberty. Many countries don't have those luxuries you know. But we do and it can all be wrapped up into one tiny symbol of a red, white, blue stripped and star flag. Its a symbol for things you can not see, and many people wish it was there symbol


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