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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
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Question Build-A-Baby - April 23rd 2009, 12:51 AM

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/261848...78705#29478705

Basically, really...building your child to your specifics wants. I could understand taking out cancer genes or something, but physical changes like eye color and skin color...It seems so strange. I personally don't think I could do it because there's beauty in the random joining of genes. To be able to choose what our children are going to look like, whether or not they're going to be boys or girls? The entire world is going to be manufactured as opposed to natural.
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Re: Build-A-Baby - April 23rd 2009, 12:55 AM

This has been an idea for decades.


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Re: Build-A-Baby - April 23rd 2009, 12:57 AM

Creeps me out a little... like what if the "soul" was a girl, but the parents decided they wanted a boy so they picked it? More gender dysphoria, waaah.


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Re: Build-A-Baby - April 23rd 2009, 12:58 AM

Also noteworthy to this debate is the already existing push for serious regulation, what kind of regulation should, and realistically be imposed, and to broaden artificial genetic selection to include not only build-a-baby, but also Octomom. I'm still thinking about this one, but check out this article I read in Sci-Am.


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Re: Build-A-Baby - April 23rd 2009, 01:10 AM

I don't think that's something we should be allowed to have control over.
And I don't even agree with the option of choosing the sex of the child.
A child is not like a house accessory, you can't just get it personalized to you liking, it doesn't seem right. You should think your child is perfect regardless.
Like so many things, there are ethics involved.

If this ever becomes an option for people?
I don't think it will be allowed for a long time.

I love the Gattaca reference. Haha. That's one of my favorite movies.


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Re: Build-A-Baby - April 23rd 2009, 01:10 AM

I'm against this. I think you should have to play the handle mother nature has dealt you.


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Re: Build-A-Baby - April 23rd 2009, 02:20 AM

Anyone ever seen Gattaca? If not, watch it, and it will explain basically exactly what will happen with this. I think it's completely wrong and stupid and a waste of money.
   
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Re: Build-A-Baby - April 23rd 2009, 02:26 AM

i guess if that is something people want to do then go ahead. even though i think its kinda unnatural, what happened to waiting to see what the get when the baby is born and then loving your child unconditionally no matter what theyre like. this kinda reminds me of that movie, Gattaca i dont know if anybodys ever seen it but its kinda like this.


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Re: Build-A-Baby - April 23rd 2009, 02:27 AM

Meh, I don't see what's so wrong with this. It's not just about making your baby prettier, it's also about screening out the genes to prevent cancer and heart disease etc which I think is perfectly fair. If this had been around years ago my brother would not be blind, deaf and dumb.

I also don't have an objection to being able to choose how your baby looks either, I did at first and then I realised my main objections stemmed from how superior these children would be to me. For some parents it's a massive deal which gender their baby is as well, why should they be stuck with a kid of a gender that they don't want if the option to choose is right there?

I also think basing your opinion off a sci-fi movie is a bad idea.

Of course there needs to be rigid regulations but that doesn't mean we shouldn't use this technology.

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Re: Build-A-Baby - April 23rd 2009, 02:42 AM

I think movies can be a very effective way of sharing ideas in an interesting way. I am not basing my ideas on it, but I think it offers a good perspective on this.

I do not have any problem with screening out diseases like cancer and such.

But, I do have a problem with people wasting a TON of money on something pointless like vanity. I mean, if I found out I was genetically engineered to look "beautiful", I think I'd flip out. That's all that life has turned into- who looks like what. What is wrong with having flaws? It's natural.
   
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Re: Build-A-Baby - April 23rd 2009, 02:49 AM

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Originally Posted by msbunnykins View Post
Anyone ever seen Gattaca? If not, watch it, and it will explain basically exactly what will happen with this. I think it's completely wrong and stupid and a waste of money.
I've seen it for sure.
Though, in order to get to that point I think it would take many years of practicing this. And like the guy said, its highly unlikely that yo can alter things such as intelligence. Just physical features.


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Re: Build-A-Baby - April 23rd 2009, 02:51 AM

I could understand removing cancer genes, and maybe even picking the sex (say you have 3 boys and you want 1 girl before you stop the baby mobile), but this is going to far.
Whats going to happen to natural beauty when everyone is articial?




   
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Re: Build-A-Baby - April 23rd 2009, 02:59 AM

I can see why some modification would be fine (as Bernadette said, cancer and other possible hereditary disorders) but changing how they look and such would be just playing God (you don't have to agree to the comparison, but you get what i mean). This is one of the things we should just leave to chance


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Re: Build-A-Baby - April 23rd 2009, 03:09 PM

Having a baby should be something exciting.. and honestly if you know every detail of the baby..... it's not really exciting.

Like with my son.. He could have had brown eyes.. or blue eyes.. we all thought he would have brown. But nope, he has the most beautiful blue eyes ever.


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Re: Build-A-Baby - April 23rd 2009, 04:09 PM

I understand that some people would want to screen for or change any genetic disorders, and I think that that is in the best interests of the health of the child.
But changing their hair colour etc?
It's just not necessary. I personally think it could open up a whole heap of problems. Messing with genetics is just not a good idea unless it's necessary for health.


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Re: Build-A-Baby - April 23rd 2009, 04:30 PM

I thought the only thing that counted was a healthy baby now its picking eye colors ect.



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Re: Build-A-Baby - April 23rd 2009, 04:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by udontno View Post
I'm against this. I think you should have to play the handle mother nature has dealt you.
We're learned that you can't play with nature, because it cannot be contained, so If something goes wrong in the future with this, I don't know what to tell you.

And It's like Sims millennium.


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Re: Build-A-Baby - April 24th 2009, 02:14 AM

I guess I'm one of very few people who actually like this idea. I mean, why not take some of the randomness out of genetics? The ability to screen for and remove hereditary diseases will prevent much human suffering, both for those people who would otherwise have been afflicted, their friends and family, and the people who would otherwise have to pay more tax for healthcare.

As for the aesthetics, I don't mind that either. I simply don't see what is so wrong with picking the hair and eye colour of your baby. The artificiality argument: they're still going to have naturally-occurring eye colour or whatever, so they wouldn't look artificial, and honestly what does it matter? We already use all sorts of artificial aesthetic aids: hair dye, toothpaste, soap, makeup etc. The "playing God" argument: as an atheist I give it very little credence. The "there isn't any point" argument: first, as an incredibly ugly person, I disagree. Being unattractive seriously restricts your social and economic potential, as well as causing all sorts of anxiety issues, depression etc. Second, there isn't any point to a lot of things, neckties for example. Should we ban those too?
   
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Re: Build-A-Baby - April 24th 2009, 02:25 AM

I think the ability to prevent diseases in the baby would be amazing. It's kind of sad to think that people would change the gender or the way their baby looks though. I wish society would work on learning to embrace differences rather than try to "fix" them.


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Re: Build-A-Baby - April 24th 2009, 02:45 AM

Didn't Hitler like this idea?
   
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Re: Build-A-Baby - April 24th 2009, 01:25 PM

Hitler would be so proud.

Anyways, I'm actually not against this. My sister plans to pick the gender of her baby, if+ she ever has one.With all the diseases that run in my family, being able to screen for that and prevent them would be amazing. As for choosing how a child looks, well even if you can pick the hair and eye colour, I doubt you can pick facial features and all that. The baby might be the ugliest thing in the world, just with your choice of hair/eye colour. Picking what it looks like won't necessarily make it pretty.Besides, pretty is shallow.


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Re: Build-A-Baby - April 24th 2009, 10:44 PM

I can't wait to do this. I hope that I will have enough money and that it will be legal when I'm an adult. I want the best furture for my child and being able to pick up out their features and traits is important to me. I think that it will become very popular in the future.
   
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Re: Build-A-Baby - April 25th 2009, 12:59 AM

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Didn't Hitler like this idea?
No. In this case, parents would be allowed to choose for themselves. Hitler would have wanted to choose for them. It's a very important difference.

Also, just because Hitler liked something doesn't mean that it's bad to like that thing too. I've got nothing against the autobahns, for instance.
   
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Re: Build-A-Baby - April 25th 2009, 04:33 PM

I just think that when you start getting into details that make someone physically different from the rest, physically unique and distinguishable from other humans, then it's gone a bit too far. Hopefully only sickly rich people would be able to afford this, the mass of the population might still be able to hold onto a manufacture-free appearance.


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Re: Build-A-Baby - April 28th 2009, 01:39 AM

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Didn't Hitler like this idea?
So what if he did? He was also vegetarian, but that doesn't mean all people who don't eat meat are going to start another Holocaust.

I don't know if I like this idea or not. I like it for preventing disabilities and disease, but trivial factors? I don't know. Would you really want someone else picking how you're going to look?


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Re: Build-A-Baby - April 28th 2009, 05:48 AM

I am extremely against the idea of changing the child's physical appearance. Taking out cancer genes? That's cool.
Making everyone look perfect? What's the world come to that looks are that important.
Let's make everyone's personality the same too in that case.



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Re: Build-A-Baby - April 29th 2009, 09:05 AM

I dont really care. I probably chose since it wouldn't matter much, but if somebody else gets a chance at it & chose specific charas to keep then I'm fine with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Distorted_Reality
Didn't Hitler like this idea?
Lol Godwin's Law

PS: NOBODY IS CREATING ANYONE'S LOOKS OR MANUFACTURING ANYTHING. If I'm not mistaken this is for artificial insemination, meaning they create a bunch of zygotes or whatever (I dunno the terms...) because a large portion will be unsuccessful anyway & you have to make a lot, but because they can examine the genes now, you basically get to choose which to keep out. So it's either you accidentally get whatever characteristics with other zygotes destroyed anyway, or they can examine the genes & keep the one you want, while the others will be destroyed just like in the 1st case.

It's like you going to the store, you get certain choices anyway, accept before you were going blind-folded, now those people can actually see what they're getting & say whether they want "whatever" or actually some specific out of the things that are already there.



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Re: Build-A-Baby - April 29th 2009, 05:10 PM

I personally think its a good idea. If I had a child (unlikely) I wouldn't want them to have a genetic disease or a medical condition that restricts the quality of their life. I wouldn't really care about how my child would look, though. I understand if you are against this for religious or moral reasons but I don't see anything wrong with it.
   
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Re: Build-A-Baby - April 29th 2009, 05:16 PM

Choosing to not have medical problems...i agree...

But for looks? Gender/hair/eye....I really dont like it. If everyone does it, everyone will end up looking the same, because more and more options will happen.

Plus....i think, that if enough people do it, everyone will HAVE to do it..because otherwise they know their child will have no hope...like gattaca


   
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Re: Build-A-Baby - April 30th 2009, 03:13 PM

The people for this don't see what's wrong with a parent getting full control over a child's look? My first agrument against this is simply an argument about whether or not you are the property of your parents. Property of your parents to the extent they should be allowed the most intimate control over you, from before you are even concieved. In my experience, parents already sculp our lives beyond simply protecting and raising us to be independant adults. They enforce their belief systems on us, for a long part of our lives they control what we wear, how we present ourselves (hair, peircings, etc), etc. But as adults, we can move away from these things if we wish, we can't move away from their genetic ideals if they are allowed to decide these things.

So yeah, should parents be able to make us a fashion statement? Think about baby trait fashion trends, and how they could change. And then kids could blame their parents for traits about themselves they dont like (even more then now), and it just seems like a downward spiral for parent-child relations.

What about the kids who were concieved naturally? They'll always be genetically inferior, and they'll know it. Even if they were completely capable people, those in society who werent wouldnt treat them as equals.

Also, what sort of message would be being sent out to traits that arent popular at that time?

And then there's the question of eugentics, and the loss of diversity which will follow.

As for getting rid of illnesses, I use to be for this, but whatever I feel on this has become narrower, signicifcantly. Perhaps there's an argument to remove things that will ruin the kid's life from a young age, like cystic fibrosis. But cancer... most people don't get cancer till they are old. And I know this is harsh to say, but people do have to die at some point. We have an aging population as it is (in the UK). Sure, try find cures to cancer, but should we really be messing with our bulding blocks for this? If we don't die of cancer, there'll be something else. We can't live forever.

I don't know, manufacting babies doesn't sit right with me.
   
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Re: Build-A-Baby - May 13th 2009, 12:29 AM

Genetic diseases, yes. Perhaps even eye problems and any life threatening/ altering genetic disorders that they can screen for should be screened for. Because I'm sure people who are all "ethics!" would feel differently if they were born with a heart condition that would only allow them to live until they'er 25, with half their life spent in the hospital... but I don't think cosmetic reasons such as physical features, strength, etc should be tampered with. It's a waste of money because it's unneeded.


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Re: Build-A-Baby - May 14th 2009, 01:25 AM

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I also think basing your opinion off a sci-fi movie is a bad idea.
Not to mention a pretty bad one :P




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Re: Build-A-Baby - May 14th 2009, 01:55 AM

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Not to mention a pretty bad one :P
Lies! Gattaca is a good movie.


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Re: Build-A-Baby - May 14th 2009, 03:10 AM

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Originally Posted by msbunnykins View Post
Anyone ever seen Gattaca? If not, watch it, and it will explain basically exactly what will happen with this. I think it's completely wrong and stupid and a waste of money.
Yes I've seen this movie (its one of my favorites). I agree, society may come close to replicating what Gattaca was about. It also reminds me of Brave New World, where everyone is specifically engineered for certain jobs and whatnot.

I think this could be useful in making sure your child doesn't have harmful diseases, cancer, autism, etc but at the same time, if we (humans) managed to give birth to perfect babies every time, we would reproduce at an exponential rate and that would be very bad obviously.

I think we should just leave childbirth to mother nature and stop trying to play God in everything we do.


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Re: Build-A-Baby - May 14th 2009, 03:32 AM

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Originally Posted by star_crossd View Post
I think we should just leave childbirth to mother nature and stop trying to play God in everything we do.
I agree. I can understand if it's done to prevent diseases, but honestly, designing what your own baby looks like? That's ridiculous. But I don't see anything wrong with it if it's used strictly to prevent illness. Otherwise, you shouldn't be interfering with how your kid is supposed to look when he/she is born. That's just pure stupidity, and why waste your money on making your child look exactly the way you want them to? The world is stupid





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Re: Build-A-Baby - May 14th 2009, 03:51 AM

I've been reading the responses and maybe we're being kind of harsh on the parents who their kid looking a certain way. To them, its not so stupid (who wouldn't want their child to be good-looking?) But I really don't think we should be messing with genetics and such unless its for medical reasons. Aesthetics, to me, aren't an important part of studying and practicing genetic manipulation.


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Re: Build-A-Baby - May 14th 2009, 05:03 AM

A child in it of itself should be a blessing.
I'm not too keen on the idea of being able to choose your child's appearance, but to prevent any genetic disorder would be wonderful to do.


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Re: Build-A-Baby - May 17th 2009, 05:03 AM

I don't see a problem with this. People edit their appearances all the time with hair dyes and botox crap. If parents what to do it, why not?
   
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Re: Build-A-Baby - May 17th 2009, 05:06 AM

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Originally Posted by udontno View Post
I'm against this. I think you should have to play the handle mother nature has dealt you.
Why would you do that if you have the option to do it otherwise? Kinda like counting cards in blackjack, if you want to use the same analogy.


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Re: Build-A-Baby - May 20th 2009, 10:37 PM

eh i'm pretty okay with it.

hair and eye colour? guys we can already change that anyway - hair dye, coloured contacts?

and i don't think everyone would look the same, a lot of parents have different ideas of beauty, i'd want my baby to have curly brown hair and dark brown eyes like it's father...but i know my friend would prefer blonde hair with blue eyes, another might want green eyes lik eher mum etc...
thered be no more similarities then there are by coincidence anyway. it's not as though facial features could be changed.

im kinda against the whole personality or intellegence thing - i think that takes away individuality as people and the person you are inside - although personality is somthing that change by nature rather then genes. (like your enviroment once you are born etc)...

and of course im all for getting rid of defective genes. i'd abort if i was going to have a mentally or physically handicapped child. I am not the kind of person who has the time, patience, or probably the right amount of money, to take care of a child like that. So it wouldn't be fair on either of us.
   
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