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View Poll Results: Do you think homosexuality is a choice or not?
It's a choice. Pat Robertson is right. 5 10.42%
It's a choice, but I disagree with Pat Robertson. 6 12.50%
It's not a choice, and I don't like Pat Robertson. 33 68.75%
It's not a choice, but I usually like Pat Robertson. 4 8.33%
Voters: 48. You may not vote on this poll

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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
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Pat Robertson says homosexuality is a personal choice - May 7th 2009, 05:34 PM

Okay, it's no secret that Pat Robertson is um.. really really conservative.

This morning I was flipping through the channels and the 700 Club was on, so I watched a few minutes of it out of pure curiosity. He said that black people don't choose to be black (and that's why racism is wrong), but homosexuals choose to be homosexual (so they're just sinners who are trying to ruin marriage and government.) He also said that gay people are "trying to make their sex acts okay."

Anyway, I obviously disagree with this. You can't control who you're attracted to. And if you want to have sex with someone of the same gender as you, go for it as long as you're both consenting adults.

Thoughts? Discuss. Please avoid personally insulting one another.

Mods: Feel free to move or do whatever with this thread if it's not in the right place.


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Last edited by Lorelei; May 7th 2009 at 05:43 PM.
   
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Re: Pat Robertson says homosexuality is a personal choice - May 7th 2009, 05:55 PM

Of course, I think thats a bunch of bull shit.
I'd like to know what credentials he says he has to know anything about homosexuality.



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Re: Pat Robertson says homosexuality is a personal choice - May 7th 2009, 06:02 PM

LOL PAT ROBERTSON
that's all I have to say


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Re: Pat Robertson says homosexuality is a personal choice - May 8th 2009, 02:02 AM

Oh, if only stupidity were a crime........

Homosexuality is obviously not a flat-out choice. Sure, there might be some environmental and social factors that increase the likelihood of a person realizing their gender orientation, but in the end, a person never wakes up one day declaring, "I'm going to like guys only in a sexual way" or something like that. It's just stupid.


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Re: Pat Robertson says homosexuality is a personal choice - May 8th 2009, 02:11 AM

Pat robertson lol


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Re: Pat Robertson says homosexuality is a personal choice - May 8th 2009, 02:12 AM

Homosexuality is definitely a choice. Personally, I chose to be harassed on a regular basis at school, have my family be disappointed and mildly repulsed by me, not be allowed to legally marry, have bottles thrown at me while I'm holding hands with my girlfriend, and generally be an outcast in society. Yeah, I chose that.

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Re: Pat Robertson says homosexuality is a personal choice - May 8th 2009, 02:19 AM

I have trouble understanding this. Gay people always say that it isn't a choice? I'd like to know what you're talking about. Apparently you've redefined the word 'choice' when I wasn't looking.

Of course you have a choice as to whether you're gay or not. You may not be honest to yourself, but you can always pretend. I understand that you can't help who you're attracted to, but you can ALWAYS make a choice to not date them. Homosexuality IS a choice, because you ultimately decide who you date. You can't choose who you like, but to me, that isn't homosexuality until you're public with it. Its called 'being in the closet'.

But people like Pat Robertson and Rick Santorum are still raging idiots.


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Re: Pat Robertson says homosexuality is a personal choice - May 8th 2009, 02:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exelus View Post
I have trouble understanding this. Gay people always say that it isn't a choice? I'd like to know what you're talking about. Apparently you've redefined the word 'choice' when I wasn't looking.

Of course you have a choice as to whether you're gay or not. You may not be honest to yourself, but you can always pretend. I understand that you can't help who you're attracted to, but you can ALWAYS make a choice to not date them. Homosexuality IS a choice, because you ultimately decide who you date. You can't choose who you like, but to me, that isn't homosexuality until you're public with it. Its called 'being in the closet'.

But people like Pat Robertson and Rick Santorum are still raging idiots.
Homosexuality is defined as the attraction to the same sex. Whether you're public about it or not has nothing to do with who you're attracted to innately. "Being in the closet" means that people don't know you're homosexual, however, you still are. That's just how I see it.


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Re: Pat Robertson says homosexuality is a personal choice - May 8th 2009, 02:34 AM

I really just don't get it. Why is it that just because someone is different there always has to be someone pointing fingers and making up accusations. What proof does he have to support his belief that they're 'sinners' who are trying to ruin marriage and government? Would someone choose to make themselves an outcast and have to suffer through undeserved harassment? One of the nicest, most selfless people I have ever had the pleasure to meet is gay. Is he someone who's hell-bent on ruining the lives of others?


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Re: Pat Robertson says homosexuality is a personal choice - May 8th 2009, 02:47 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWhiteTornado View Post
I really just don't get it. Why is it that just because someone is different there always has to be someone pointing fingers and making up accusations. What proof does he have to support his belief that they're 'sinners' who are trying to ruin marriage and government? Would someone choose to make themselves an outcast and have to suffer through undeserved harassment? One of the nicest, most selfless people I have ever had the pleasure to meet is gay. Is he someone who's hell-bent on ruining the lives of others?
If we can't agree on whether gay is a choice, we can always agree that these people should be electroshocked for their own good. They're hyper religious fascists who think that the world operates based on what they say. I hate them all. If you think that gay people are a threat to society, you're an idiot. The only way a gay person is a threat to society is if they hate straight people to the point they go on a killing rampage.


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Re: Pat Robertson says homosexuality is a personal choice - May 8th 2009, 02:54 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exelus View Post
If we can't agree on whether gay is a choice, we can always agree that these people should be electroshocked for their own good. They're hyper religious fascists who think that the world operates based on what they say. I hate them all. If you think that gay people are a threat to society, you're an idiot. The only way a gay person is a threat to society is if they hate straight people to the point they go on a killing rampage.
Totally agreed. While I myself am christian, i really hate these types of people. Go with your religion, that's fine, just don't go around harassing others and making their life hell just because you assume they're threats


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Re: Pat Robertson says homosexuality is a personal choice - May 8th 2009, 02:55 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlurrySunset View Post
Homosexuality is definitely a choice. Personally, I chose to be harassed on a regular basis at school, have my family be disappointed and mildly repulsed by me, not be allowed to legally marry, have bottles thrown at me while I'm holding hands with my girlfriend, and generally be an outcast in society. Yeah, I chose that.

[/sarcasm]
When I was reading this I was like oh my. Then I saw the sarcasm part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exelus View Post
I have trouble understanding this. Gay people always say that it isn't a choice? I'd like to know what you're talking about. Apparently you've redefined the word 'choice' when I wasn't looking.

Of course you have a choice as to whether you're gay or not. You may not be honest to yourself, but you can always pretend. I understand that you can't help who you're attracted to, but you can ALWAYS make a choice to not date them. Homosexuality IS a choice, because you ultimately decide who you date. You can't choose who you like, but to me, that isn't homosexuality until you're public with it. Its called 'being in the closet'.

But people like Pat Robertson and Rick Santorum are still raging idiots.
You don't have a choice. Even if you are in the closet, you are still gay. At the end of the day, you are still gay. That's no different from being open about it or not. It doesn't matter if one person knows, no one knows, or if the whole world knows that you are gay. You are still gay regardless of who knows. There is no choice.

What I drew from your statement was that people in the closet are not homosexuals because they aren't public with it. To me, that does not add up.


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Re: Pat Robertson says homosexuality is a personal choice - May 8th 2009, 03:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by udontno View Post
You don't have a choice. Even if you are in the closet, you are still gay. At the end of the day, you are still gay. That's no different from being open about it or not. It doesn't matter if one person knows, no one knows, or if the whole world knows that you are gay. You are still gay regardless of who knows. There is no choice.

What I drew from your statement was that people in the closet are not homosexuals because they aren't public with it. To me, that does not add up.
That's exactly what you should have drawn from my statement. There is such a wide spectrum of sexuality. Some famous person that knew a whole lot about sex actually made a sexuality spectrum ranging from purely heterosexual from purely homosexual, with everything in between. Since you can be straight and still have homosexual urges/thoughts, I don't think you can classify someone as 'gay' until they actively pursue a relationship with someone of the same sex.

It simplifies the process. If guy has homosexual urges/thoughts all their life, but suppresses them and ends up marrying a woman and having 2 kids, but still has those thoughts, are they still gay? Are gay people that have gone through 'gay camp' and turned straight still gay? (please don't think I'm being prejudiced with that remark)

I think it simplifies the process if we say that anyone actively pursuing a relationship with someone of the same sex is gay. Which means that if you're in the closet, you're not gay. But its just my system of nomenclature, and since there's no standard, I can use what I want.

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Re: Pat Robertson says homosexuality is a personal choice - May 8th 2009, 03:20 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exelus View Post
That's exactly what you should have drawn from my statement. There is such a wide spectrum of sexuality. Some famous person that knew a whole lot about sex actually made a sexuality spectrum ranging from purely heterosexual from purely homosexual, with everything in between. Since you can be straight and still have homosexual urges/thoughts, I don't think you can classify someone as 'gay' until they actively pursue a relationship with someone of the same sex.

It simplifies the process. If guy has homosexual urges/thoughts all their life, but suppresses them and ends up marrying a woman and having 2 kids, but still has those thoughts, are they still gay? Are gay people that have gone through 'gay camp' and turned straight still gay? (please don't think I'm being prejudiced with that remark)

I think it simplifies the process if we say that anyone actively pursuing a relationship with someone of the same sex is gay. Which means that if you're in the closet, you're not gay. But its just my system of nomenclature, and since there's no standard, I can use what I want.

Victory By Self-Definition.
I don't think that there is such a wide spectrum. You are either gay (or another alphabet soup term ) or straight. There is no "sorta gay". If you are having homosexual urges/thoughts and you are "straight", then you need to rethink your label.

Personally, I think that man would still be gay. He's just lying to himself. I also don't think that you can "turn someone straight". You are what you are.

I think that you might be the only person that uses your system of nomenclature.


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Re: Pat Robertson says homosexuality is a personal choice - May 8th 2009, 03:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by udontno View Post
I don't think that there is such a wide spectrum. You are either gay (or another alphabet soup term ) or straight. There is no "sorta gay". If you are having homosexual urges/thoughts and you are "straight", then you need to rethink your label.

Personally, I think that man would still be gay. He's just lying to himself. I also don't think that you can "turn someone straight". You are what you are.

I think that you might be the only person that uses your system of nomenclature.
The Kinsey Scale

The Kinsey Institute is a highly respected institute that does research and publishes information on human sexuality.

So yes, there is a spectrum.


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Re: Pat Robertson says homosexuality is a personal choice - May 8th 2009, 04:28 AM

I swear to god, common sense is rapidly depleting from society. Who in their right minds would choose to be gay. I know I never got to.
   
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Re: Pat Robertson says homosexuality is a personal choice - May 8th 2009, 04:37 AM

I remember once I was on a forum where someone posted a thread with questions for straight people to answer. There were a whole bunch of questions commonly posed to homsexuals, but of course I didn't realize that at first. I remember one of the questions was, did you choose to be straight? and I was uhh no of course not what an absurd question!

If a straight person can't choose their sexuality then why would homosexuals be able to? It's simply ABSURD.

Not to mention the scientific evidence. Like as a mother gives birth to more sons the likelihood goes up each time that the son will be gay. Also, just logically speaking, there are biological differences for just about everything about humans, how could it be possible that only straight people could exist? That's really just not logical.

One more thing while I'm at it. I think religious people who preach about how being homosexual is wrong yadda yadda yadda are hypocrites. I have never seen those same people speaking out against other sins listed in the bible. Heck, I've seen christians who support the death penalty and carry a gun around with them everywhere speaking against homosexuals. Get a friggin brain! Death and violence are clearly more serious than two people of the same gender IN LOVE.

We KNOW Miss California CAN choose not to pose half-nude, but she did it anyway! Let's make that illegal! oh and then she lied about doing it so she could get into the pageant! Let's make lying illegal too! *rolls eyes*

How can you possibly think love is worse than violence, death, adultery, nudity, AND lying? That mentality drives me up the wall!


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Re: Pat Robertson says homosexuality is a personal choice - May 8th 2009, 01:44 PM

Pretty sure Kinsey figured that homosexuality wasnt a choice. And Kinsey also suggested hardly anyone were purely straight or purely gay.

What you are talking about in terms of not being gay if you are closeted though, is too complicated to generalise. Some people are in the closet to others, but to themselves, have a very strong LGBQ+ identity. Some people are out to some but not others. Some people will be out only to those they have sex with. Are you saying these people are only gay in the situations where people know? Generally, closeted people realise they are gay. Telling others is not a requirement.

Also, are you saying that celibate people have no orientation at all?

Regardless, what you are saying isnt that being gay is a choice, you are saying its a choice to act on your feelings or not. That's correct, but that's the same for everyone, doing anything. Also, for many people, a healthy sexual/romantic relationship (with a person you like) can be important in your life. So its basically saying people have the choice to follow what will potentially make them happy, or what will potentially make them miserable. Its not much of a choice

Also the Kinsey scale is not the be all and end all of sexual orientation. There are different dimensions, such as some bisexuals will like the different sexes in different ways. Pansexuals and various other possible orientations may actively acknowledge liking a range of combination of different genders and sexes. Like I like the female sex, but I like any gender, including female to male trans people, who are going through sex changes. Others may be specifically attracted only to trans people, or genderqueers.

Sexuality is very complex. Even with straight people, a lot of them have deviated at some point. I'll need to check my Kinsey Institute report from the 90s again, but a large amount of heterosexual adult males have experimented with gay sex in their youth.

Regardless, even if homosexuality was a choice, where does that suggest its ok to discriminate? I dont get that. The point is, we shouldnn't discriminate against people full stop.

Last edited by Marvin; May 9th 2009 at 03:22 PM.
   
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Re: Pat Robertson says homosexuality is a personal choice - May 8th 2009, 02:55 PM

According to The God Delusion, Pat Robertson said that all homosexuals wanted to do is "give people aids".

How absurd (and ironically deluded) is that! I suppose he conveniently forgot to take into account that most homosexuals do not have aids and that thousands of straight people do. Honestly, the things people believe when they take certain parts of the bible literally. I seriously can't believe it when people claim aids is a curse from God.
   
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Re: Pat Robertson says homosexuality is a personal choice - May 8th 2009, 07:59 PM

I've got two friends who are happily in a relationship right now. They are both girls. When they first started dating, it was a complete shock. Neither of the girls stuck anyone as being gay - they both dated guys before they fell in love. They certainly didn't choose to fall in love with each other, it just happened.

If anything, heterosexuals are the ones destroying marriage by getting divorced all the time. Besides, marriage was essentially a business transaction back in the day - either men "owned" their bride and received a dowry (basically a bribe) or people married to keep wealth within the family. Is this really a sacred bond? How can homosexuals be "destroying" such a sanctity if historically it was about economics?


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Re: Pat Robertson says homosexuality is a personal choice - May 9th 2009, 05:39 AM

I wanted to expand a bit on what Tegan (Invert) and Russel (Exelus) said:

I don't think your orientation is something you can choose, but I do think the way you choose to explore your orientation and sexuality is. So no, LGBT+ people aren't CHOOSING to have their particular orientation or gender identity (the reason I talk about both is that they're both frowned upon in the Bible), but they (or some of them) do CHOOSE to express it. Two gay men in a relationship aren't choosing to be gay men, but they are choosing to be in a relationship, which probably includes sex of a type expressly forbidden in the Bible. That's irrefutable. They could also choose either to abstain from sex altogether or to enter into an unhealthy relationship with a woman. Neither is a great alternative, but they are both valid, if not ideal.
That said, the Bible is not the be all and end all of public policy decisions, no matter how much some people would like it to be. Should churches reserve the right not to marry same-sex couples? I believe they should. Should some other churches be able to marry same-sex couples? Sure! But should same-sex couples be denied the right to have a civil marriage recognized by the state? Of course not! The government should NOT discriminate against homosexual (or LGBT+) people simply on the basis of their sexual orientation. That's weird and wrong. That's liked denying people who dye their hair basic rights.
"But I always felt I was a blonde inside!"
"But you were born with brown hair, so that's how you have to live! You're free to dye your hair, but if you do, you can't get married..."
That just doesn't make any sense.


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Re: Pat Robertson says homosexuality is a personal choice - May 9th 2009, 06:19 AM

Something majority of the people even I hang out with in the LGBT community, say, who would CHOSE to be homosexual?

I think if you have negative views on people like that, you should keep your freaking mouth shut. I lost all respect for him after hearing him say things like this.



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Re: Pat Robertson says homosexuality is a personal choice - May 9th 2009, 06:58 AM

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Originally Posted by Khadra View Post
I remember once I was on a forum where someone posted a thread with questions for straight people to answer. There were a whole bunch of questions commonly posed to homsexuals, but of course I didn't realize that at first. I remember one of the questions was, did you choose to be straight? and I was uhh no of course not what an absurd question!

If a straight person can't choose their sexuality then why would homosexuals be able to? It's simply ABSURD.

Not to mention the scientific evidence. Like as a mother gives birth to more sons the likelihood goes up each time that the son will be gay. Also, just logically speaking, there are biological differences for just about everything about humans, how could it be possible that only straight people could exist? That's really just not logical.

One more thing while I'm at it. I think religious people who preach about how being homosexual is wrong yadda yadda yadda are hypocrites. I have never seen those same people speaking out against other sins listed in the bible. Heck, I've seen christians who support the death penalty and carry a gun around with them everywhere speaking against homosexuals. Get a friggin brain! Death and violence are clearly more serious than two people of the same gender IN LOVE.

We KNOW Miss California CAN choose not to pose half-nude, but she did it anyway! Let's make that illegal! oh and then she lied about doing it so she could get into the pageant! Let's make lying illegal too! *rolls eyes*

How can you possibly think love is worse than violence, death, adultery, nudity, AND lying? That mentality drives me up the wall!
Exactly! I just don't get why the ridiculously pious people like that believe that God will remove them from sins far worse than whatever 'sin' homesexuality is. Why would he remove sin from some straight person who's committed every sin in the books and commit a gay person who hasn't harmed a single being in his life? Sometimes people just disappoint me with their lack of individual will when they just give in to some ridiculous belief like that. Why would God create homosexuals just go damn them? He loves everyone, them included, and i wish that some people like pat robertson would just open their eyes and wonder for once "what if i'm wrong?"


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Re: Pat Robertson says homosexuality is a personal choice - May 9th 2009, 04:32 PM

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Originally Posted by TheWhiteTornado View Post
Why would God create homosexuals just go damn them? He loves everyone, them included, and i wish that some people like pat robertson would just open their eyes and wonder for once "what if i'm wrong?"
People like Pat Robertson don't wonder if they're wrong, which is exactly why they act so stupid on a daily basis. xD


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Re: Pat Robertson says homosexuality is a personal choice - May 9th 2009, 06:00 PM

I don't see how it can be a choice. It doesn't make any sense to me that it would be. I personally don't have any sexual attraction to anyone, regardless of sex and I don't choose to be that way. If I could choose, I would be sexually attracted to my boyfriend, but I don't choose and I'm not sexually attracted to him (or anyone). I did not choose this, just as I'm sure heterosexuals didn't choose to be attracted to the opposite sex and homosexuals didn't choose to be attracted to the same sex.


   
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Re: Pat Robertson says homosexuality is a personal choice - May 9th 2009, 06:15 PM

I'd like to clear up some personal beliefs.

No matter whether I think its a personal choice or not, its still not OK to persecute people. My logic is simple. If two people are so deeply in love that they still choose to be together while enduring public scorn, having their families disown them, and generally being frowned upon by everyone, that love is obviously stronger than anything most people will ever have. Can someone give me a statistic on gay divorce rates? I bet its low. REALLY low. So why is it that so many states STILL don't allow gay couples to marry? If its really about love, then there should be no problem. The problems come in at the same time that religion comes in.

I stand my ground when I say that people like Pat Robertson and Rick Santorum are morons. If you think that the gay community is out to destroy the American family, and destabilize the government... Please, go get help. You obviously should not think for yourself.


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Re: Pat Robertson says homosexuality is a personal choice - May 9th 2009, 07:17 PM

I agree that it's a choice, but I don't agree that it means it's okay to discriminate against homosexual people. There are a lot of things that are choices in life, and no one gets discriminated against for those choices, nor should gay people. I see it as a choice, simply because, you can choose to date who you want. It's not as if it's impossible for a gay person to date someone of the opposite sex. They're perfectly capable and able to do that, and there's nothing holding them back. But they choose to date the same sex as themselves. There's not some magical force that pressures them towards a certain sex.

I hate to say it, but I still can also see where this guy is coming from. But I definitely don't agree with what he is saying. No one deserves to be discriminated against because of their personal choices in life.





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Re: Pat Robertson says homosexuality is a personal choice - May 9th 2009, 07:30 PM

That just really makes me mad. What are homosexuals supposed to do? Torture themselves by not allowing themselves to find true love. That like if someone were to tell straight people it was not right to like the opposite sex!!!!!! They cannot help that they are not attracted to the oppositek sex, just as straight people cannot help that they aren't attracted to the same sex! It is scientifically proven that there are people that are just born gays and lesbians. That really just pisses me off, because marriage is traditionally between a man and a woman who love each-other, but we do not make it a rule that people that are not Christians can't celbrate Christmas... What right do we have to tell two people who love each-other that they cannot commit to each-other. That is wrong, telling two people who love each-other that they cannot take their relationship to the extent that they wish.
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Re: Pat Robertson says homosexuality is a personal choice - May 9th 2009, 08:29 PM

Why on earth would anyone seriously take this guys word on anything?




   
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Re: Pat Robertson says homosexuality is a personal choice - May 10th 2009, 02:00 AM

I don't think it's necessarily a choice, but I think it probably does have a lot to do with socialization etc.....rephrased: i don't know that it's genetic as much as it's learned (and you're all going to take that the wrong way). Then again...there are examples of homosexuality in the animal kingdom, but what does that have to with humans?
   
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Re: Pat Robertson says homosexuality is a personal choice - May 10th 2009, 03:08 AM

Quote:
Why on earth would anyone seriously take this guys word on anything?
A lot of people do. That's why the 700 Club is still on the air. They take it seriously because he's using Christianity as a substitute for a backbone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi_ImJordan View Post
Then again...there are examples of homosexuality in the animal kingdom, but what does that have to with humans?
I don't mean to turn this into an evolution vs. creation debate, but according to my eighth grade science teacher (and pretty much everyone who doesn't believe in the divinity of the Bible) humans are a part of the animal kingdom. So, it has a great deal to do with the subject.

In response to those who say that homosexuality is a choice because you can choose not to date those you are attracted to: You're right, but what kind of life would that be? And how would it be for your potential husband/wife to realize that you're not attracted to them, much less anyone of their sex, but you're just going along with it because you're afraid of dating anyone you're attracted to? Pretty sad existence, if you ask me.

I feel compelled to add that if you define a person's sexuality by who they date and not by the people they truly feel attracted to, then anyone who hasn't done romantic things can't declare their sexuality at all.
I also feel compelled to add that even before doing anything romantic with a guy, I knew I was straight because of the feelings I had towards guys.


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Re: Pat Robertson says homosexuality is a personal choice - May 10th 2009, 04:40 AM

ya know, I've heard this argument and the following is my rebuttle

it is asked if its a choice or not

I ask

DOES IT MATTER!?!?

should it being a choice or not redefine that nature of its practice? NO. IT DOES NO. So hypothetically, lets say someone chooses to be gay. Whats wrong with that? Why should it matter? Why are we investing so much time into debating this factor? Say I choose to be abstinent, or say I choose to be hippie, say I choose to be the god damned batman. It's my choice, not yours, and as long as it doesn't negatively effect those around me, your not gonna give a damn. Why in the case of homosexuality, should it be any different. The whole argument does nothing to qualify anyone's argument.
   
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Re: Pat Robertson says homosexuality is a personal choice - May 10th 2009, 04:45 AM

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Originally Posted by Exelus View Post
The Kinsey Scale

The Kinsey Institute is a highly respected institute that does research and publishes information on human sexuality.

So yes, there is a spectrum.
Maybe I need to rephrase things for you. I do believe that sexuality is fluid. One of the ideas that I've fiddled with is that "everyone is bisexual and some people are just more in tune with it than others."

However, being in the closet does not make you any "less gay" as I was getting from your statements. I've never heard of the Kinsey scale before, but it does back some of the things that I believe.


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Re: Pat Robertson says homosexuality is a personal choice - May 10th 2009, 08:09 AM

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Originally Posted by Concrete Girl View Post
I agree that it's a choice, but I don't agree that it means it's okay to discriminate against homosexual people. There are a lot of things that are choices in life, and no one gets discriminated against for those choices, nor should gay people. I see it as a choice, simply because, you can choose to date who you want. It's not as if it's impossible for a gay person to date someone of the opposite sex. They're perfectly capable and able to do that, and there's nothing holding them back. But they choose to date the same sex as themselves. There's not some magical force that pressures them towards a certain sex.

I hate to say it, but I still can also see where this guy is coming from. But I definitely don't agree with what he is saying. No one deserves to be discriminated against because of their personal choices in life.
I disagree that it is a choice. I mean, sure they can choose who they date, but that isn't their sexuality. Sexuality is defined by sexual attraction, not by who you date. Sure a gay guy can date a girl, but that isn't much fun for him if he's sexually attracted to other men.
I do agree though that IF it were a choice, they still shouldn't be dicrimnated against. Ever. So what if we did get to choose? (And I'm still saying we don't get to choose) In the end, it doesn't really matter if it's a choice or not because homosexuals don't hurt anyone, whether they choose to be that way or not. And I say they don't. I'm attracted to no one. I know for a fact that that's not a choice I made, even though dating my boyfriend was a choice.


   
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Re: Pat Robertson says homosexuality is a personal choice - May 11th 2009, 09:08 AM

Like anything in life, you're dealt your cards and you choose how to play them.

I'm a lesbian, a lesbo, a dyke, queer, what have you. That wasn't a choice. The only choice I had in regards to my sexuality was whether or not I would accept myself as I am. I cannot choose for my loved ones (thankfully they accept me--for real, not that "omg I can tolerate you being a lesbian," but actual acceptance) or strangers (some accept me, others do not.) I cannot choose to like guys--I just don't. Like, seriously. No penis, pls&thnx.

I've honestly outgrown the "caring what other people think about my sexuality" thing, too. Pat Robertson can think whatever he wants. In fact, I'll defend his right to think it and to speak his opinions. I know the truth about myself better than he, a stranger, ever will.

The thing about people who are offensive is... well, hell, good for them. Now stand firm in your own convictions and prove them wrong by example, out-do them in tact, and believe in yourself. Why, really, does it matter? Let homophobic people make fools of themselves, it's not hurting you. Eleanor Roosevelt, quite a lovely lady, once said, "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." And she's right. Why give people who hate you the satisfaction of knowing you care? Why justify their antiquated beliefs with a response that is hurting you more than them?

/rant.



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Re: Pat Robertson says homosexuality is a personal choice - May 11th 2009, 12:58 PM

As with almost everything in psychology and life in general, it's a mix of nature and nurture. It may not be 50/50, however, there is a combination of the two, and this combination is evident in sexual orientation. I find it rather ignorant for someone to say it's only by nurture or only by nature.

Quote:
Originally Posted by udontno
I don't think that there is such a wide spectrum. You are either gay (or another alphabet soup term ) or straight. There is no "sorta gay". If you are having homosexual urges/thoughts and you are "straight", then you need to rethink your label.
Quote:
Originally Posted by udontno
Maybe I need to rephrase things for you. I do believe that sexuality is fluid
This isn't rephrasing, it's a contradiction.
   
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Re: Pat Robertson says homosexuality is a personal choice - May 11th 2009, 01:40 PM

i don't think homosexuality in itself is a choice, but it is a choice whether or not you decide to date people of the same sex and be openly gay or not. to be honest, i don't see why it matters.. whether its a choice or not a choice, gay people are still going to be gay.


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Re: Pat Robertson says homosexuality is a personal choice - May 11th 2009, 05:11 PM

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Let homophobic people make fools of themselves, it's not hurting you.
I admire your conviction, but I disagree with this statement. Pat Robertson has legions of followers that he manipulates quite effectively into believing whatever he wants them to believe. (If you like Pat Robertson, please keep in mind that I don't mean all of his watchers do whatever he says.)

When you have that kind of power, it can be quite harmful to those who go against you. It's people like Pat Robertson that passed Prop 8, elected George and George W., etc. etc.

So, in short, ignorance hurts all of us. It doesn't just humiliate the ignorant.


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Re: Pat Robertson says homosexuality is a personal choice - May 11th 2009, 06:44 PM

Being homosexual and acting homosexual are two different things.

You do not get to choose your feelings, but you can choose your actions. Being homosexual is a feeling, while acting upon those feelings is a choice. At this point it's really just stupid semantics because both sides know what they really support. But yeah, have homosexual tendencies (being homosexual) is not a choice.

Plus, no one takes fundies like Pat Robertson seriously, except other fundies who we should have already given up on.
   
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Re: Pat Robertson says homosexuality is a personal choice - May 12th 2009, 02:24 AM

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Originally Posted by Lorelei View Post
I admire your conviction, but I disagree with this statement. Pat Robertson has legions of followers that he manipulates quite effectively into believing whatever he wants them to believe. (If you like Pat Robertson, please keep in mind that I don't mean all of his watchers do whatever he says.)

When you have that kind of power, it can be quite harmful to those who go against you. It's people like Pat Robertson that passed Prop 8, elected George and George W., etc. etc.

So, in short, ignorance hurts all of us. It doesn't just humiliate the ignorant.
And you know what? His followers have a right to believe what he says. Maybe some people shouldn't be "allowed" to think for themselves but thinking isn't illegal... yet. Do I agree with him and what he preaches? No. But I am not in a position to (attempt to) educate this man, so I don't let it hurt me. If I let him hurt me, I'm letting him win. And my response--if it were anger, sadness, what have you--would ALSO hurt me more than it would ever hurt him. Why give him that sense of satisfaction? Why defeat myself?

Freedom of thought is still a very legal thing--and I'll defend anyone's right to their own beliefs. I don't have to like them, sometimes I won't like them, but I also do not have to (and refuse to) let a stranger's opinions of my identity hurt me. I know who I am and that being a lesbian is okay. I don't need the world to know that, too.

He's just a man with a right to his (stupid, outdated) opinions. His followers are just human (misguided? perhaps) with a right to follow. There are enough people in this world who understand and believe that queer people deserve rights like marriage, adoption, etc. A way will be found to ensure our rights are granted with or without Pat Robertson and his minions standing in our way.



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