TeenHelp
Support Forums Today's Posts

Get Advice Connect with TeenHelp Resources
HelpLINK Facebook     Twitter     Tumblr     Instagram    Hotlines    Safety Zone    Alternatives

You are not registered or have not logged in

Hello guest! (Not a guest? Log in above!)

As a guest on TeenHelp you are only able to use some of our site's features. By registering an account you will be able to enjoy unlimited access to our site, and will be able to:

  • Connect with thousands of teenagers worldwide by actively taking part in our Support Forums and Chat Room.
  • Find others with similar interests in our Social Groups.
  • Express yourself through our Blogs, Picture Albums and User Profiles.
  • And much much more!

Signing up is free, anonymous and will only take a few moments, so click here to register now!


Current Events and Debates For discussions and friendly debates about politics and current events, check out this forum.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  (#1 (permalink)) Old
My Diary Offline
Member
Welcome me, I'm new!
*
 
My Diary's Avatar
 
Name: Stef
Age: 18
Gender: Female
Location: United States

Posts: 21
Join Date: January 4th 2016

Political Corruption - January 4th 2016, 05:52 AM

I'm very happy to see that this forum exists here! I love political discussion.

Unfortunately, there is a huge amount of corruption in American politics that rarely gets mentioned in the media. There is a pretty obvious reason for that that I'm going to get to.

In America, we essentially have legalized bribery. Corporations (etc.) 'donate' extraordinary sums of money to politicians. This money is used to fund political campaigns (things like tv adds), and as a result of all that campaign money, politicians garner their support. Once elected, they will vote in the best interests of their donors, not the American people.
This is why the very rich get major tax cuts, while taxes are raised on the middle class.
This is why we don't have paid maternity leave and vacation.
This is why American taxpayers bail out banks that screw them over.
This is why republicans won't do anything about climate change (destroying the planet draws in profit for oil companies).

It's the core issue- the issue that affects all other issues.
It's the issue of democracy. The government isn't for the people- it's for the billionaires.
A Princeton study revealed that from 1981-2002, the average American had an insignificant say in policy, while the elite had a huge say (I will provide a link later).

This is the most important issue.
So why is it never talked about? Why does the media brush it under the rug, never asking any questions about it in the Presidential debates?
The media makes money off of it. More money in politics -> more TV adds that can be run by stations that bring us our news.

There is one Presidential candidate (excluding Trump, since he's half orangutan and has a ferret on his head) who brings this up in those Presidential debates, however. His name is Bernie Sanders.
Not only does he talk the talk- he walks the walk.
Bernie is the only candidate (again, excluding Trump) who does not accept corporate money. He gets small contributions from many people instead.
He's in the pockets of the American people. He's the only legit candidate who will fix this issue.

So I don't think we should worry very much about the other issues. Don't vote baned on gun control, or immigration, or abortion.
Vote based on democracy. Vote Sanders.

I'd love to hear other opinions, in agreement or disagreement.
Thanks for reading!
   
  (#2 (permalink)) Old
BDF Offline
Member
I can't get enough
*********
 
BDF's Avatar
 
Name: BDF
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Location: Europe

Posts: 2,523
Blog Entries: 1
Join Date: January 28th 2009

Re: Political Corruption - January 4th 2016, 04:49 PM

I'm going to start-off by saying that how much "corruption" there is, is relative. America... is one of the countries with the least corruption in the world. So are most other developed countries. How much corruption there is, almost entirely depends on how developed a country is, and it's culture/history. That doesn't mean that there isn't room for improvement, especially that the more developed and powerful countries such the USA... have a lot of influence globally, and any corruption "high-up" there affects a lot more people than corruption in Serbia for example.

The difference between a country like the USA... and some country in Eastern Europe, or Africa... is that when something "corrupt" gets uncovered in the USA, people cause an outrage about it. People scream about it in the news even as far as Europe. Of course, if it doesn't get uncovered, then no one will know, and most people pay very little attention to conspiracy theories, because most conspiracy theories are bullshit. Allegations require proof before anyone takes them seriously.

This is why to a lot of people... it almost looks like countries such as the USA have "a lot" of corruption. It looks like it, because people make noise about it. And because people make noise about it, and fight it, the corruption in countries such as the USA, is in fact a lot less. In countries like Poland, everything is the opposite to that. People over there think corruption is "normal", and say nothing or do very little about it. It is the European Union that has forced them to get their shit together.

I've lived in Poland for a long enough time, and I can tell you, that over there most people don't give a shit about corruption. You can tell from their attitudes when you talk with them about it. In fact, many things which you or I would think are "corrupt", to them are entirely normal, like paying off a doctor to get sick leave from work. And in Russia it is probably even worse. From my experiences, it is very normal for even "average" people (no elite) to bribe their way through local authorities, usually using their family connections and their governmental authorities to try and effectively steal from others. And almost nobody complains, and almost nobody even fights them. There is still this illusion left behind from communist days, that any person from the government is "untouchable", even if all they do is take out the trash (I'm exaggerating a little here though to make a point). This has happened to us several times in Poland. I've experienced this personally several times, although am proud to say, we never bought their shit. I can write more about this some other time.

The difference between a country like the USA, and a country like Poland... is that in the USA, ordinary people like yourself do not think of corruption as something "normal", and they despise it. In countries like Poland, ordinary people very often consider it a "way of life".

I don't want to be too unfair to Poland, because it has been getting better, especially since it joined the EU.

Quote:
Originally Posted by My Diary View Post
In America, we essentially have legalized bribery. Corporations (etc.) 'donate' extraordinary sums of money to politicians. This money is used to fund political campaigns (things like tv adds), and as a result of all that campaign money, politicians garner their support. Once elected, they will vote in the best interests of their donors, not the American people.
Ok, I have never liked how campaigns and politicians get "funded" that way. It is almost the same as bribery. But I think you might have inverted cause and consequence here. They don't really donate the money so that the politicians act in their interests. They donate the money, because the politicians already are mostly acting in their interests. It's logical if you think about it. They wouldn't donate money to someone who is completely opposing their interests in the first place. That of course, doesn't mean that the donors still aren't expecting something "extra" and even more, in return for the money. And now that I think of it... it is very likely that some high-profile politicians support certain policies simply because they hope it will get them "donations" from sponsors like that.

What I'm trying to say is that they are basically "sponsoring" politicians who already act in their interests. I find it pretty difficult to word the right way. I just hope you understand me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by My Diary View Post
This is why the very rich get major tax cuts, while taxes are raised on the middle class.
This is why we don't have paid maternity leave and vacation.
This is why American taxpayers bail out banks that screw them over.
This is why republicans won't do anything about climate change (destroying the planet draws in profit for oil companies).
This is all complex stuff which is difficult and even impossible to generalise that way, even if someone knew all the details. I can agree with you in so far, that corruption is to blame for a lot of things, but it is never so simple though.

By taking a one-dimensional approach, and blaming everything on "corruption amongst the elite"... you are shutting yourself out from other things which might in fact be causing the problems.

For example... if the taxpayers didn't bail out the banks when they failed, everyone would be in an even deeper shit. There were good reasons to bail them out. The question is... why did the banks fail in the first place? If they didn't fail, nobody would have had to bail them out. To put in shortly: governments created/changed laws to allow banks to take risks with people's money, huge risks, whilst the bankers took the profits of their gambling with other people's money for themselves, and hid the money they made. Then, when something eventually screwed up, the banks didn't have the money to fix it, because it had all been "syphoned off" by a relatively small group of top bankers in their elite. So only then, the governments had to feed money into the banks to fix the problem... or otherwise things would have been a lot worse.

If the laws were not messed around with in the first place... probably none of this would have happened. Although, maybe the bankers would have just found another method instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by My Diary View Post
It's the core issue- the issue that affects all other issues.
It's the issue of democracy.
I agree with that. People who are born into it, are taking democracy for granted. Most don't even have a damn clue what it truly means. "Democracy" doesn't just mean "everyone can vote", like what I've heard a lot of people say before. And it doesn't just mean "rights for gay people" either.

These are all very one-dimensional mindsets, often very close minded and frankly stupid and even offensive sometimes. I am opposed to "positive descrimination" (at least in it's existing state). I won't go into why that is, because that's not the point here, although it is 90% about equality.

But some people see it only one way: they see that I'm opposed to "positive descrimination", therefore I'm opposed to helping minorities, and therefore I don't like racial minorities, and therefore I must be "racist". When (and I don't bother any more) I try to explain that it is about democracy & equality to me, the response I get is that "I'm trying to rationalise my racism with noble causes".

For fucks sake. I can't sit with those people at the same table and not feel like hitting them. There's no way I can word what I have to say... and not get the same ignorant reaction from them.

I've been told I swear too much, and I'm trying to hold back but I can't when I think of these morons.


Quote:
Originally Posted by My Diary View Post
The government isn't for the people- it's for the billionaires.
A Princeton study revealed that from 1981-2002, the average American had an insignificant say in policy, while the elite had a huge say (I will provide a link later).
I've heard of that before. It is surprisngly easy to manipulate votes. Just by raising the voting age, you can greatly increase the % of people who vote for conservative parties. That's because most younger people vote liberal. Or by lowering the voting age, you can greatly increase the % of people who vote liberal. I've heard of "voting fees" which have to be paid by people who want to vote. This obviously means, people on minimum wages, or otherwise with very little money, will vote much less than the rest of the population. Another strategy is letting in large numbers of empoverished immigrants from abroad, who will by their nature be "underprivileged", and more likely to vote liberal in the long term because of it.

It has even been the case in the UK before, that people from certain areas in the country were given more voting power, by 1 vote of theirs effectively being equal to 2 votes of some other person. I'm putting it very simply though.

All dirty tricks. All full shit in my view. I don't give a f**k which side it favors, liberals or conservatives. I can't stand that kind of crap and I can't stand the people who support it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by My Diary View Post
TThis is the most important issue.
So why is it never talked about? Why does the media brush it under the rug, never asking any questions about it in the Presidential debates?
The media makes money off of it. More money in politics -> more TV adds that can be run by stations that bring us our news.
It is like I said earlier... a lot of people are taking democracy for granted. They simply aren't interested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by My Diary View Post
There is one Presidential candidate (excluding Trump, since he's half orangutan and has a ferret on his head) who brings this up in those Presidential debates, however. His name is Bernie Sanders.
Not only does he talk the talk- he walks the walk.
Bernie is the only candidate (again, excluding Trump) who does not accept corporate money. He gets small contributions from many people instead.
He's in the pockets of the American people. He's the only legit candidate who will fix this issue.
An impartial canditate who does not bias himself to either the left or right side, but does what the people want from him? I don't know if I'm understanding/assuming this correctly. I want to read more about him. I in general do not know much about American politics because I don't live there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by My Diary View Post
So I don't think we should worry very much about the other issues. Don't vote baned on gun control, or immigration, or abortion.
Vote based on democracy. Vote Sanders.
That's the problem I think I've mentioned twice already (although maybe not exactly). People "zoom in" and sometimes even become entirely one-dimensional, only concerned with the comparatively little things like "gun control", or "same sex marriage", or even "immigration". People forget that without democracy, you couldn't even talk about or challenge these things in the first place.

The unfortunate thing is... to win "fights", you usually need to take sides. To take sides as a politician, you need to pick a few motos for yourself such as "lesser gun control", or "more gun control", or "same sex marriage"... which allign themselves with the interests of certain social groups. Saying "more democracy"... doesn't get much attention for that reason, because like I said, most people take it for granted. Some people will even laugh at you for being
apparently "too idealistic".


.


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.


   
  (#3 (permalink)) Old
LifeTheRonWay Offline
I live to serve
Average Joe
***
 
LifeTheRonWay's Avatar
 
Name: Ron
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Location: Tennessee

Posts: 188
Blog Entries: 4
Join Date: July 1st 2009

Re: Political Corruption - January 4th 2016, 06:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by My Diary View Post

I'd love to hear other opinions, in agreement or disagreement.
Thanks for reading!

We know that all presidents after Kennedy have been puppets. We know the election is just smoke and mirrors. We know that "Democrat" and "Republican" opposing sides have been put in place for people to have "their team" just as they do at any sporting event - as a facade, to help perpetuate the illusion of freedom that voting truly is.
We know that Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders, and Jeb Bush all have the same puppet masters.
We know that ISIS was created by US & Israel just like Al Qaeda. We know that they use them as tools to control fear among the people to push the agenda of their masters.
We know the ones who really run things are The Bilderberg Group.
We are awake now. "


Revenge is a poison meant for others that we end up swallowing ourselves.
Vengeance is a dark light that blinds all who seek it.
The untroubled soul knows there is no justice in revenge.
The untroubled soul knows that to seek vengeance, is to seek destruction.
   
  (#4 (permalink)) Old
My Diary Offline
Member
Welcome me, I'm new!
*
 
My Diary's Avatar
 
Name: Stef
Age: 18
Gender: Female
Location: United States

Posts: 21
Join Date: January 4th 2016

Re: Political Corruption - January 4th 2016, 09:44 PM

Hey there, thanks for your reply!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BDF
"I'm going to start-off by saying that how much "corruption" there is, is relative. America... is one of the countries with the least corruption in the world. So are most other developed countries. How much corruption there is, almost entirely depends on how developed a country is, and it's culture/history. That doesn't mean that there isn't room for improvement, especially that the more developed and powerful countries such the USA... have a lot of influence globally, and any corruption "high-up" there affects a lot more people than corruption in Serbia for example.

The difference between a country like the USA... and some country in Eastern Europe, or Africa... is that when something "corrupt" gets uncovered in the USA, people cause an outrage about it. People scream about it in the news even as far as Europe. Of course, if it doesn't get uncovered, then no one will know, and most people pay very little attention to conspiracy theories, because most conspiracy theories are bullshit. Allegations require proof before anyone takes them seriously.

This is why to a lot of people... it almost looks like countries such as the USA have "a lot" of corruption. It looks like it, because people make noise about it. And because people make noise about it, and fight it, the corruption in countries such as the USA, is in fact a lot less. In countries like Poland, everything is the opposite to that. People over there think corruption is "normal", and say nothing or do very little about it. It is the European Union that has forced them to get their shit together.

I've lived in Poland for a long enough time, and I can tell you, that over there most people don't give a shit about corruption. You can tell from their attitudes when you talk with them about it. In fact, many things which you or I would think are "corrupt", to them are entirely normal, like paying off a doctor to get sick leave from work. And in Russia it is probably even worse. From my experiences, it is very normal for even "average" people (no elite) to bribe their way through local authorities, usually using their family connections and their governmental authorities to try and effectively steal from others. And almost nobody complains, and almost nobody even fights them. There is still this illusion left behind from communist days, that any person from the government is "untouchable", even if all they do is take out the trash (I'm exaggerating a little here though to make a point). This has happened to us several times in Poland. I've experienced this personally several times, although am proud to say, we never bought their shit. I can write more about this some other time.

The difference between a country like the USA, and a country like Poland... is that in the USA, ordinary people like yourself do not think of corruption as something "normal", and they despise it. In countries like Poland, ordinary people very often consider it a "way of life".

I don't want to be too unfair to Poland, because it has been getting better, especially since it joined the EU. "
Interesting. I really do not know much about European politics, but the situation in Poland sounds horrible.
About the EU, I hear that many people believe that is anti-democracy in some ways. What are your thoughts on that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BDF
Ok, I have never liked how campaigns and politicians get "funded" that way. It is almost the same as bribery. But I think you might have inverted cause and consequence here. They don't really donate the money so that the politicians act in their interests. They donate the money, because the politicians already are mostly acting in their interests. It's logical if you think about it. They wouldn't donate money to someone who is completely opposing their interests in the first place. That of course, doesn't mean that the donors still aren't expecting something "extra" and even more, in return for the money. And now that I think of it... it is very likely that some high-profile politicians support certain policies simply because they hope it will get them "donations" from sponsors like that.

What I'm trying to say is that they are basically "sponsoring" politicians who already act in their interests. I find it pretty difficult to word the right way. I just hope you understand me.
It sounds like you're saying that 'donors' support politicians who are already supporting what's in their best interests.
Maybe, but I believe that (like you mentioned) these politicians support these policies for 'donations'. Why else would they deny climate change, for example? These people have good educations. They're not stupid (most of them, anyway). They know that most Americans want to do something about climate change.
So it's essentially still bribery. It's just not as direct as one may typically imagine bribery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BDF
This is all complex stuff which is difficult and even impossible to generalise that way, even if someone knew all the details. I can agree with you in so far, that corruption is to blame for a lot of things, but it is never so simple though.

By taking a one-dimensional approach, and blaming everything on "corruption amongst the elite"... you are shutting yourself out from other things which might in fact be causing the problems.
Sure, some republicans (like Trump), for example, may be against climate change simply because they are total morons. However, that's a very small percentage, so I often just generalize with these things by saying that the issue is money in politics.
It focuses attention on what's really important.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BDF
For example... if the taxpayers didn't bail out the banks when they failed, everyone would be in an even deeper shit. There were good reasons to bail them out. The question is... why did the banks fail in the first place? If they didn't fail, nobody would have had to bail them out. To put in shortly: governments created/changed laws to allow banks to take risks with people's money, huge risks, whilst the bankers took the profits of their gambling with other people's money for themselves, and hid the money they made. Then, when something eventually screwed up, the banks didn't have the money to fix it, because it had all been "syphoned off" by a relatively small group of top bankers in their elite. So only then, the governments had to feed money into the banks to fix the problem... or otherwise things would have been a lot worse.
Fair enough. But because of money in politics, many politicians haven't seemed to learn anything. They're against policies that will stop such a crash from happening again, and if they get their way, the banks will be able to do their dirty tricks again, and taxpayers will have to bail them out another time.

P.S. Have you seen the new film, 'The Big Short'? ;P
It's about the 2008 financial crisis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BDF
I agree with that. People who are born into it, are taking democracy for granted. Most don't even have a damn clue what it truly means. "Democracy" doesn't just mean "everyone can vote", like what I've heard a lot of people say before. And it doesn't just mean "rights for gay people" either.

These are all very one-dimensional mindsets, often very close minded and frankly stupid and even offensive sometimes. I am opposed to "positive descrimination" (at least in it's existing state). I won't go into why that is, because that's not the point here, although it is 90% about equality.

But some people see it only one way: they see that I'm opposed to "positive descrimination", therefore I'm opposed to helping minorities, and therefore I don't like racial minorities, and therefore I must be "racist". When (and I don't bother any more) I try to explain that it is about democracy & equality to me, the response I get is that "I'm trying to rationalise my racism with noble causes".

For fucks sake. I can't sit with those people at the same table and not feel like hitting them. There's no way I can word what I have to say... and not get the same ignorant reaction from them.

I've been told I swear too much, and I'm trying to hold back but I can't when I think of these morons.
Like affirmative action, for example?
I don't think it's a bad idea in theory, but I'm not sure if it's being practiced reasonably. I don't see it as a very important issue, so I haven't really looked into it much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BDF
It is like I said earlier... a lot of people are taking democracy for granted. They simply aren't interested.
I think that a lot of people simply are unaware of the issue, because the media rarely ever mentions it (and when it does, it's not necessarily unfavorably).
“Super PACs may be bad for America, but they’re very good for CBS,”
-Les Moonves, CEO of CBS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BDF
An impartial canditate who does not bias himself to either the left or right side, but does what the people want from him? I don't know if I'm understanding/assuming this correctly. I want to read more about him. I in general do not know much about American politics because I don't live there.
Oh, don't get me wrong, Sanders is very liberal (though our 'very liberal' is not extreme, and our 'moderate republicans' are war-mongers and climate deniers).
I am saying to overlook that, because Sanders is the only candidate who will bring us democracy. And that is the core issue.
Like you said, "People forget that without democracy, you couldn't even talk about or challenge these things in the first place."
   
  (#5 (permalink)) Old
My Diary Offline
Member
Welcome me, I'm new!
*
 
My Diary's Avatar
 
Name: Stef
Age: 18
Gender: Female
Location: United States

Posts: 21
Join Date: January 4th 2016

Re: Political Corruption - January 4th 2016, 09:50 PM

Hi, thanks for your reply!
Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeTheRonWay View Post
We know that all presidents after Kennedy have been puppets. We know the election is just smoke and mirrors. We know that "Democrat" and "Republican" opposing sides have been put in place for people to have "their team" just as they do at any sporting event - as a facade, to help perpetuate the illusion of freedom that voting truly is.
We know that Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders, and Jeb Bush all have the same puppet masters.
We know that ISIS was created by US & Israel just like Al Qaeda. We know that they use them as tools to control fear among the people to push the agenda of their masters.
We know the ones who really run things are The Bilderberg Group.
We are awake now. "
Not Bernie Sanders, no.
youtube.com/watch?v=vZ_yZOTdxgk

Last edited by My Diary; January 4th 2016 at 11:22 PM.
   
  (#6 (permalink)) Old
BDF Offline
Member
I can't get enough
*********
 
BDF's Avatar
 
Name: BDF
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Location: Europe

Posts: 2,523
Blog Entries: 1
Join Date: January 28th 2009

Re: Political Corruption - January 5th 2016, 02:16 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by My Diary View Post
Interesting. I really do not know much about European politics, but the situation in Poland sounds horrible.
About the EU, I hear that many people believe that is anti-democracy in some ways. What are your thoughts on that?
I make Poland sound worse than it is. It certainly makes my skin crawl sometimes how submissive people are to authority over there, but like I said earlier, it is all relative. I've grown up in the UK mostly, and I wasn't brought up to "look down at the ground" when confronted by someone with authority. I was taught to look them in the eye. Most of Africa is so incredibly corrupt that Poland doesn't compare even slightly. I've heard of people who had to bribe their way past border control in airports when they get off an international flight. Corporations who are serious about doing business in Africa, often set aside a separate budget, just for that kind of stuff. They usually just call it "employee expenses". I call it bullshit.

The worrying thing about the EU... is that the central government in Brussels is not directly elected by any ordinary citizens. It has centralised all kinds of power, most notably, that which allows them to pass new laws and directives which other "EU member states" generally have to comply with.

I wouldn't have 90% of the problems I do with the EU, if for example, elections were held every 4 or 5 years which allow citizens from across the EU to vote for certain representatives which support various policies (like elections in most democratic countries). That would make Brussels (in theory) directly accountable to citizens of all of the EU.

Imagine this: The North American continent, combined (even if voluntarily, like the EU) into one "super-state" called the "North American Union" (NAU). Canada, USA, Mexico, and all the various Islands and etc. ... all in one. To rule over this "super-state", a team of politicians is somehow appointed (which isn't transparent to anyone how exactly they were appointed, because nobody got a say in it). As always, you get to vote in America, for your president. Canada has theirs, etc. But all of them are answerable to an even higher authority... the "NAU".

Quote:
Originally Posted by My Diary View Post
It sounds like you're saying that 'donors' support politicians who are already supporting what's in their best interests.
Maybe, but I believe that (like you mentioned) these politicians support these policies for 'donations'. Why else would they deny climate change, for example? These people have good educations. They're not stupid (most of them, anyway). They know that most Americans want to do something about climate change.
So it's essentially still bribery. It's just not as direct as one may typically imagine bribery.
I was going in circles with that... because that's what it kind of is. A "what came first, chicken or the egg?" situation. It is self-perpetuating.

I've not been following climate change much for a while now, so can't comment much. I focus more on the "overconsumption of resources" (ecological footprints) rather than climate change, which is basically just a symptom of it. "Overconsumption of resources" isn't just about fossil fuels. It's about materialistic cultures and people stepping over people for 50 inch TVs at half price on Black Friday sales.

Quote:
Originally Posted by My Diary View Post
Sure, some republicans (like Trump), for example, may be against climate change simply because they are total morons. However, that's a very small percentage, so I often just generalize with these things by saying that the issue is money in politics.
It focuses attention on what's really important.


Fair enough. But I think you'd find it interesting to read about "psychopaths in politics". Money by itself isn't harmful. In the wrong hands, it is.

You can even google search it I suppose. It's too much for me to write about and I'm tired now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by My Diary View Post
Fair enough. But because of money in politics, many politicians haven't seemed to learn anything. They're against policies that will stop such a crash from happening again, and if they get their way, the banks will be able to do their dirty tricks again, and taxpayers will have to bail them out another time.

P.S. Have you seen the new film, 'The Big Short'? ;P
It's about the 2008 financial crisis.


I don't think I've seen it.

I struggle to understand the attitudes of the politicians here. In the past, they would at least make an effort to look like they're doing something about the big problems. This time... everything is following effectively the same patterns.

I don't usually say this... but this is something I'm genuinely scared of. If the next financial crisis hits close enough in sync. with the EU immigration crisis, and ISIS continues doing it's threats, social problems with Muslims, increasing Nationalism amongst Europeans in general...

... I don't like what it adds up to. I don't like either that the EU has already demonstrated the power and the willingness to use it to bully countries. Read about the 60% levy tax in Cyprus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by My Diary View Post
Like affirmative action, for example?
I don't think it's a bad idea in theory, but I'm not sure if it's being practiced reasonably. I don't see it as a very important issue, so I haven't really looked into it much.


I didn't word that very well. I was ranting about one-dimensional mindsets of people, who are focused on seeing only what suits them. To illustrate that, I digressed to describe a problem I have encountered several times in the past, which is basically... certain people seeing things in "black and white". "You're either with me, or against me" kind of attitude. To those people, me saying something like "I oppose affirmative action", immediately makes me a racist according to them.

Can't talk rationally with cretins like that. It usually escalates to a bitching contest, which I have no patience for and find boring on a good day. On bad day... -__-

This is besides the main point here really, but my issue with existing "positive descrimination" or "affirmative action"... is that it supposedly preaches "equality" by for example biasing admissions in favor of minorities by letting them in despite having 10-20% lower grade averages. From my observations, this is mostly the case for university/college admissions. Equal opportunities do not start at the age of 18. They start at the very beginning. Fine, you can't do much about what circumstances someone is born into, but if you are serious about providing "equal opportunities" in education, then they should be done earliest possible, in nursery schools. So that when they reach university, they have the same grade averages, can compete fairly with other candidates being admitted, and can perform the same as any other students. Starting at the age of 18, is too late for most people.

Why isn't this being done??? Because 18 year olds can vote, and toddlers can't. A toddler won't return his/her gratitude for another 15 years. That's too long to wait for politicians.

Quote:
Originally Posted by My Diary View Post
Oh, don't get me wrong, Sanders is very liberal (though our 'very liberal' is not extreme, and our 'moderate republicans' are war-mongers and climate deniers).
I am saying to overlook that, because Sanders is the only candidate who will bring us democracy. And that is the core issue.
Like you said, "People forget that without democracy, you couldn't even talk about or challenge these things in the first place."
I don't care much if someone is conservative or liberal. I look at their core values, and whether their entire image pieces together, and if I feel I can trust them.

I will vote for someone, often even if I disagree with them on many things, if I feel like I know where I stand with that person, and if I feel like I know what to expect from them. I will not vote for bullshit.

I will note vote for someone who says they won't raise tuition fees, and then does exactly that. I will not vote for someone who says they will decrease or increase taxes, and then does the opposite. I will not vote for someone who says "will reduce m]igration to 20 000 a year", then the stats at the end of year say "100 000 have migrated".

Of course... it is very difficult to pre-judge these things. I look for signs of whether a politician is just saying things to please people and fake smiles, or if he is saying things with substance which look like he has put his/her own thought into it. Saying things to please people, such as the "affirmative action" I described above.


.


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.


   
  (#7 (permalink)) Old
MWF Offline
Member
I've been here a while
********
 
MWF's Avatar
 
Name: Robert
Age: 23
Gender: Male
Location: The Best City On Earth

Posts: 1,708
Join Date: May 22nd 2010

Re: Political Corruption - January 5th 2016, 05:44 AM

I'm hammered right now, so if I sound like a dick, forgive me... but you're kind of preaching to the choir. Pretty much everyone on this site that I've seen aligns with most of what what Bernie has to say.
Any complaints about my sobriety should be sent to me via PM.


Wish I lived in Canada. UPDATE, NOV. 9th, 2016: This statement has become even more appropriate.
I vow that I will attack this endeavor with an enthusiasm unknown to mankind. Jim Harbaugh

"Being an adult sucks. The only positives are weed, sex, and cars, and I have none of those right now." -Me

"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hatred cannot drive out hatred; only love can do that." -Martin Luther King Jr.
   
  (#8 (permalink)) Old
My Diary Offline
Member
Welcome me, I'm new!
*
 
My Diary's Avatar
 
Name: Stef
Age: 18
Gender: Female
Location: United States

Posts: 21
Join Date: January 4th 2016

Re: Political Corruption - January 6th 2016, 03:13 AM

Ah, so overall, do you support the EU?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BDF
I've not been following climate change much for a while now, so can't comment much. I focus more on the "overconsumption of resources" (ecological footprints) rather than climate change, which is basically just a symptom of it. "Overconsumption of resources" isn't just about fossil fuels. It's about materialistic cultures and people stepping over people for 50 inch TVs at half price on Black Friday sales.
Ah, well according to the vast majority of scientists, climate-change is man-made. It's an established fact in every place except Congress. ;P

Quote:
Originally Posted by BDF
Fair enough. But I think you'd find it interesting to read about "psychopaths in politics". Money by itself isn't harmful. In the wrong hands, it is.

You can even google search it I suppose. It's too much for me to write about and I'm tired now.
Interesting stuff.

I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of people in general would go against what's right for tons of cash and power, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BDF
I don't think I've seen it.
Ah, it's very new, and a great movie. Not sure if it's in theaters where you live, but it is currently here in the US.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BDF
I struggle to understand the attitudes of the politicians here. In the past, they would at least make an effort to look like they're doing something about the big problems. This time... everything is following effectively the same patterns.

I don't usually say this... but this is something I'm genuinely scared of. If the next financial crisis hits close enough in sync. with the EU immigration crisis, and ISIS continues doing it's threats, social problems with Muslims, increasing Nationalism amongst Europeans in general...

... I don't like what it adds up to. I don't like either that the EU has already demonstrated the power and the willingness to use it to bully countries. Read about the 60% levy tax in Cyprus.
EU immigration crisis? As in lack of proper assimilation?
Yeah, I don't like what that adds up to either. The situation isn't very different in the United States. People are already gravitating towards lunatics like Trump.

Interesting about that tax, yeah. The EU definitely does some very questionable things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BDF
I didn't word that very well. I was ranting about one-dimensional mindsets of people, who are focused on seeing only what suits them. To illustrate that, I digressed to describe a problem I have encountered several times in the past, which is basically... certain people seeing things in "black and white". "You're either with me, or against me" kind of attitude. To those people, me saying something like "I oppose affirmative action", immediately makes me a racist according to them.

Can't talk rationally with cretins like that. It usually escalates to a bitching contest, which I have no patience for and find boring on a good day. On bad day... -__-

This is besides the main point here really, but my issue with existing "positive descrimination" or "affirmative action"... is that it supposedly preaches "equality" by for example biasing admissions in favor of minorities by letting them in despite having 10-20% lower grade averages. From my observations, this is mostly the case for university/college admissions. Equal opportunities do not start at the age of 18. They start at the very beginning. Fine, you can't do much about what circumstances someone is born into, but if you are serious about providing "equal opportunities" in education, then they should be done earliest possible, in nursery schools. So that when they reach university, they have the same grade averages, can compete fairly with other candidates being admitted, and can perform the same as any other students. Starting at the age of 18, is too late for most people.

Why isn't this being done??? Because 18 year olds can vote, and toddlers can't. A toddler won't return his/her gratitude for another 15 years. That's too long to wait for politicians.
Yeah, I see what you're saying.
I think that's a larger problem in Europe than here in the US.
Here, the mainstream media won't even call out Donald Trump as a racist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BDF
I don't care much if someone is conservative or liberal. I look at their core values, and whether their entire image pieces together, and if I feel I can trust them.

I will vote for someone, often even if I disagree with them on many things, if I feel like I know where I stand with that person, and if I feel like I know what to expect from them. I will not vote for bullshit.

I will note vote for someone who says they won't raise tuition fees, and then does exactly that. I will not vote for someone who says they will decrease or increase taxes, and then does the opposite. I will not vote for someone who says "will reduce m]igration to 20 000 a year", then the stats at the end of year say "100 000 have migrated".

Of course... it is very difficult to pre-judge these things. I look for signs of whether a politician is just saying things to please people and fake smiles, or if he is saying things with substance which look like he has put his/her own thought into it. Saying things to please people, such as the "affirmative action" I described above.
Bernie Sanders is definitely more trustworthy than most politicians. Even his opponents give him that.

He's been extremely consistent in his policy positions, and is a very principled person.
He could just get his money from billionaires. That's so much easier, and it's what nearly all politicians do. Only a very principled person would deny that money.
   
  (#9 (permalink)) Old
My Diary Offline
Member
Welcome me, I'm new!
*
 
My Diary's Avatar
 
Name: Stef
Age: 18
Gender: Female
Location: United States

Posts: 21
Join Date: January 4th 2016

Re: Political Corruption - January 6th 2016, 03:16 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichWolverineFreak View Post
I'm hammered right now, so if I sound like a dick, forgive me... but you're kind of preaching to the choir. Pretty much everyone on this site that I've seen aligns with most of what what Bernie has to say.
Any complaints about my sobriety should be sent to me via PM.
Hahaha, nope, you don't sound like a dick. ;D

That's great to hear then, but I still appreciate the discussion.
   
  (#10 (permalink)) Old
BDF Offline
Member
I can't get enough
*********
 
BDF's Avatar
 
Name: BDF
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Location: Europe

Posts: 2,523
Blog Entries: 1
Join Date: January 28th 2009

Re: Political Corruption - January 6th 2016, 02:04 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by My Diary View Post
Ah, so overall, do you support the EU?
No. Not in it's current state.

Quote:
Originally Posted by My Diary View Post
Ah, well according to the vast majority of scientists, climate-change is man-made. It's an established fact in every place except Congress. ;P
I used to be interested in it and read some stuff also saying that climate change is a natural occurence every several hundred or thousand years. I couldn't make my mind up in the end. A lot of researches are funded by external groups, external groups would usually seek to get the kind of results they want to get, instead of getting the truth.

I also remember there being a lot more money put into researching "man made climate change" as opposed to "natural climate change". Something like that, is obviously going to skew the results and public perception.

Seriously, I felt like I'd have to become an environmental scientist myself to fully understand what is going on... and I didn't have time for that. I prefer to look at "overconsumption of resources"... which "man-made climate change" is a subset and a symptom of. If you reduce overconsumption, you reduce climate change. Reducing use of fossil fuels, simply won't happen. I don't even want to go into why, but basically, it's because they're cheaper.

"Natural climate change"... is something we have no control over, so I don't care at this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by My Diary View Post
Interesting stuff.

I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of people in general would go against what's right for tons of cash and power, though.
Yes. Reading those things, and going into more depth about pscychopaths, narcissists, sociopaths, and numerous others... kind of changed the way I see a lot of things. These people often have a very strong hold on the communities we live in. They don't even have to be officially "in charge" to do that, but they do it anyway.

Reading about these things, and observing those kinds of people... I've learned to recognise them, and I've learned to avoid them, or "handle" them much better instead.

To hurt most people and provoke an impulsive reaction... it is enough to offend their family for example. To hurt a psycopath, challenge his power, dent his pride. You can often get the same reaction out of a psycopath (although they might learn to control it better) for something like that, as you would from an ordinary person if you smacked his mother in front of him.

But it's wrong to assume that the majority of people are like that. Every person has a whole mixture of personality traits, some more dominant than others. So sure, you'll find something inside every person, that will make them greedy and manipulative if you expose that person to the right (or wrong) environment/stimuli and circumstances. But how long can they keep it up for? And ultimately, what do they value more? Their money & power, or something else?

I think the TV series "Breaking Bad" showed exactly that kind of change happening to Walter White. If you haven't seen it... well, it's the perfect illustration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by My Diary View Post
EU immigration crisis? As in lack of proper assimilation?
Yeah, I don't like what that adds up to either. The situation isn't very different in the United States. People are already gravitating towards lunatics like Trump.
Exactly. Lack of proper assimilation. But successfuly assimilating millions in the first place in so little time... I'm not even sure if it is possible. It's not just about pumping more money into the system. It's about re-allocating healthcare, re-allocating housing, hiring professionals for these people, employment agencies, social workers. It's about the entire infrastructure.

My point is, spending money is easy, and especially spending it like a fool. Hiring people who are capable of managing it and getting the most out of it... pretty difficult.

Does Europe for example even have the required number of doctors? Without taking them away from other communities/countries? Maybe, maybe not (I have no clue). But otherwise, training them takes ages.

It's not just money, it is also time.

Settling all the migrants in slums and giving them free food and healthcare, even if we had endless money to do so, is not a solution. They need jobs. That will keep them productive, sustainable, and steer them away from Islamic extremism. But these have to be jobs which won't be taken away from other EU citizens. Why? Because that's just passing a hot potato. You solve one problem, and create another --> nationalist right-wing extremism.

Some people don't get that at all. Some people belittle nationalist right-wing extremism so much that they almost ignore it altogether. They think that they're "pathetic". They're not, and they're getting stronger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by My Diary View Post
Yeah, I see what you're saying.
I think that's a larger problem in Europe than here in the US.
Here, the mainstream media won't even call out Donald Trump as a racist.


My worst experiences are social media. Facebook and twitter. Younger people tend to be more liberal thinking, and more impulsive and irrational. And it is younger people who use social media most of all. And social media has extremely heavy influence across Western cultures, although by itself, it is not a fair representation of an entire country's views.

I honestly don't know how much of a problem any of this is in the USA. I think it could be as much a problem as anywhere else on Earth, the difference only being that slightly different subject matters and topics are required to provoke the same irrational reactions.

For example, Europe is more sensitive about problems with Islam at the moment.

I've asked before on these forums why can't Muslims stand up more for their own religion, and denounce their extremist preachers in their communities, denounce the terrorists, and denounce ISIS. Someone replied that they have no obligation to do that, simply to satisfy general public (that's how I understood it). No, they have no obligation. And the EU also has no obligation to take in any migrants whatsoever, but we do it.

And also... it is only Muslims who can truly take a stand against their own, because other people who do it get shot down and often labeled as "racists" (like I kind of said already). And even if they weren't labeled as "racists"... it'd still be impossible. Because Muslims are "on the inside", whereas someone like me is an "outsider".

.


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.


   
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Tags
corruption, political

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




All material copyright 1998-2018, TeenHelp.
Terms | Legal | Privacy | Conduct | Complaints

Powered by vBulletin®.
Copyright ©2000-2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search engine optimization by vBSEO.
Theme developed in association with vBStyles.