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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
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Obama's Gun Control. - May 17th 2009, 03:14 AM

http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/11119 U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder has stated that the Obama administration would like to resurrect the Clinton ban on semi-automatic firearms, as well as other gun control laws. One of the reasons for bringing back these unpopular laws, according to Holder, is that Mexican drug cartels are becoming increasingly violent and warring with Mexican government troops. Holder says that some of the guns being used by the Mexican drug mafia are being obtained illegally from the United States. Mexico is a country with a reputation for political corruption and a healthy disregard for the individual rights of its citizens. Still, Holder and the Obama administration think that limiting the Second Amendment rights of U.S. citizens is a cure for drug violence in Mexico.
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Re: Obama's Gun Control. - May 17th 2009, 03:28 AM

I think thats stupid. If the law goes into effect, it will just suddenly make regular, law-abiding citizens into criminals.

"Holder says that some of the guns being used by the Mexican drug mafia are being obtained illegally from the United States."

Uh, yeah. They're illegal NOW; whats the point of passing another law that says they'll be illegal. Make them even MORE illegal??

Its Mexico. Let them handle their own problems. Regardless of the laws here in the US, they'll always be doing illegal things, using illegal weapons. This law will only cause trouble for law-abiding citizens. How is that fair? It wont help solve anything about drug cartels.


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Re: Obama's Gun Control. - May 17th 2009, 03:36 AM

Americans don't have access to Grenades, Rocket launchers ect, like the mexican Drug cartels. Americans should have the right to the best effective weapon possible. Automatic machine guns are no match to the power of a grenade.
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Re: Obama's Gun Control. - May 17th 2009, 03:38 AM

Well that was certainly a bias article. That last sentence was total crap. If people ever bothered to read the second amendment they'd know that it doesn't just give people the right to bear arms, unless they are planning on forming a militia. I'm all for gun control so I say good for Obama.


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Re: Obama's Gun Control. - May 17th 2009, 03:38 AM

I seriously doubt this law will be passed, anyway. Gun control laws are always the trickiest to pass. We should be able to arm ourselves and/or pursue gun-related hobbies.


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Re: Obama's Gun Control. - May 17th 2009, 04:49 AM

How is limiting the second amendment going to stop the Mexican Drug War? O.o

This is the only view I lean right-wing. I don't see how people think limiting guns legally is not going to persuade illegal guns to continue forth? If not in more full force.



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Re: Obama's Gun Control. - May 17th 2009, 04:54 AM

Whether or not it stops stuff happening in Mexico better gun control in America is way over-due. Frankly I think the Mexican thing is a stupid pretext for a very good idea.
   
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Re: Obama's Gun Control. - May 17th 2009, 04:57 AM

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How is limiting the second amendment going to stop the Mexican Drug War? O.o
Exactly. ^^
Its always going to be there, gun laws wont do anything. Really, what can be done to stop them effectively?


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Re: Obama's Gun Control. - May 17th 2009, 04:59 AM

The United States could use the gun control, to be honest. I actually agree with Jack, for once.


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Re: Obama's Gun Control. - May 17th 2009, 05:16 AM

I've never understood the need for a regular person to own an assault rifle. People will say that they are needed to defend their families, but I don't understand why something that fires so many rounds in such a short time is needed--seems like overkill to me. Handguns are understandable, but assault rifles are just ridiculously unnecessary.


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Re: Obama's Gun Control. - May 17th 2009, 05:17 AM

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I've never understood the need for a regular person to own an assault rifle. People will say that they are needed to defend their families, but I don't understand why something that fires so many rounds in such a short time is needed--seems like overkill to me. Handguns are understandable, but assault rifles are just ridiculously unnecessary.
For some people, its just a hobby. They like to collect guns, take them to shooting competitions, etc.


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Re: Obama's Gun Control. - May 17th 2009, 03:43 PM

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For some people, its just a hobby. They like to collect guns, take them to shooting competitions, etc.
And that's what's scary. That guns can just be a hobby and something to basically play games with. That's truly scary to me.


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Re: Obama's Gun Control. - May 17th 2009, 07:32 PM

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And that's what's scary. That guns can just be a hobby and something to basically play games with. That's truly scary to me.
Yeah but it can also be educational. So many people don't really understand how much respect you need when it comes to guns and people who collect them and know a lot about them usually do have a lot of respect for them. I think in this day and age, gun education is very important. I actually would like to learn how to shoot and clean a gun, etc, this summer.


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Re: Obama's Gun Control. - May 17th 2009, 07:47 PM

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For some people, its just a hobby. They like to collect guns, take them to shooting competitions, etc.

Exactly. My house has a lot of guns in it, that would probably be made illegal if this happened, but my dad collects guns, owns them all legally, and shoots them legally too.

Plus, like, how would you regulate the black market? Do you really think the guns would go away because we made them illegal. It's just like drugs, pot, you can still get like everywhere even if it's not legal.



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Re: Obama's Gun Control. - May 17th 2009, 07:50 PM

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Exactly. My house has a lot of guns in it, that would probably be made illegal if this happened, but my dad collects guns, owns them all legally, and shoots them legally too.

Plus, like, how would you regulate the black market? Do you really think the guns would go away because we made them illegal. It's just like drugs, pot, you can still get like everywhere even if it's not legal.
I agree. People will always have guns, its something you'll never be able to take from people. And I'm the same way, my dad likes guns but he owns them all legally and he uses them very responsibly. It would be very unfair if people like him were suddenly stripped of their right to pursue the things they like.


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Re: Obama's Gun Control. - May 18th 2009, 01:36 AM

This law makes no sense. Since when to criminals obey the law anyways? A man about to go on a massive killing spree doesn't think "Oh, gee, possessing a gun is illegal, so I guess I'll forget about murdering a few people."


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Re: Obama's Gun Control. - May 18th 2009, 01:58 AM

But making the gun illegal means he wont get the gun to go on a shooting spree in the first place, hence why America has lots of school shootings compared to one in the UK, we've also only had one other proper shooting spree and that was before our gun laws came into effect.

Anyway, he's not banning all guns, only semi-automatics and some others which you frankly don't need anyway. Collecting guns is hardly an excuse, and you can do that anyway so long as the gun is deactivated.

Also, I can't find a source that he is even planning to do this outside of the ridiculously biased website linked to in the original post or one other ridiculously biased and unreliable site. Or at least "Obama Gun Control Mexico" isn't letting anything come up on google.
   
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Re: Obama's Gun Control. - May 18th 2009, 02:10 AM

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But making the gun illegal means he wont get the gun to go on a shooting spree in the first place...
Not really. If the gun is made illegal, people will always find a way to get a hold of it anyway, "under the table" and whatnot....


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Re: Obama's Gun Control. - May 18th 2009, 02:29 AM

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Not really. If the gun is made illegal, people will always find a way to get a hold of it anyway, "under the table" and whatnot....
Since when do kids and other such people know how to get guns illegally. For example from October 1997 to March 2001 there were 10 high-profile shootings in America's schools. In eight of the 10 school shootings the guns were obtained from a family member or friend of the shooter. In the remaining two cases, the gun was taken from a neighbor's garage in one instance and, in the other, the gun was already owned by the shooter. And in the case where the gun was owned it was given to him as a present by his dad. All these guns were obtained by legal methods.

Obviously criminalising the owning of guns would decrease the amount of kids who get hold of guns and would decrease school shootings. Seems obvious.

Also where do you suppose the guns for the black-market in the USA come from? From legal retailers of course. According to the FBI, 340,700 firearms are reported as stolen each year (the stats were collected between 1987-92). These guns, almost all of which have been manufactured and purchased legally, inevitably end up being sold on the black market and end up in the hands of criminals. Had these guns never been made or sold, that would be 340,700 less guns owned by criminals in the US. Obviously, there will always be a way to illegally purchase firearms, but if buying a gun becomes much harder, then the price of illegal guns will skyrocket. The idea that criminalising guns only leaves criminals with guns is a poor one.
   
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Re: Obama's Gun Control. - May 18th 2009, 02:39 AM

Jack, I gotta admit, I admire the way you present your case, complete with statistics. Most people are not that thorough.

See, but the law is about semi-automatic guns. Kids can do school-shootings, can do just as much damage with regular handguns, so I dont think making the automatics illegal is really going to affect the number of school shootings.

But either way, the law was about trying to stop the Mexican cartels, not school shootings. And I'm sure the drug cartels are more than capable of finding guns illegally.


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Re: Obama's Gun Control. - May 18th 2009, 02:42 AM

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I've agreed with gun control laws for awhile. I don't see why it should even be had in moderation, but eh.
   
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Re: Obama's Gun Control. - May 18th 2009, 03:00 AM

Thanks.

Hmm, that's why I would say that banning guns almost entirely would be a good idea. Not just automatics, however I would still argue that it's a step in the right direction.

Nothing can be achieved by an automatic that can't be achieved by a less dangerous gun (eg self defence, though owning a gun for self defence is debatably a bad idea as well). I really think Obama is just using this as a pretext to stop people having those guns. The idea that mexicans wouldn't be able to find their own guns, is as you say, rather absurd.
   
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Re: Obama's Gun Control. - May 18th 2009, 03:10 AM

Yeah, I can see your point in the defense thing. A Taser would do just as well as a 9 mm but I think the reason most people prefer guns for self-defense is...the power of them. Tasers just aren't as threatening as a gun and people want that threat, that security. But that can, of course, result in unnecessary fatalities.

I was raised in a household of hunters and pro-gun people and I want to learn how to use them as well, but I agree, some people shouldn't be allowed to have them (like people who would go and shoot a school up). I wish everyone could be responsibly about firearms but...life's a bitch.

I think for gun control, it's either everybody has one or nobody has one.


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Re: Obama's Gun Control. - May 18th 2009, 03:22 AM

See, I'm torn on this.

On the one hand I hate gun control. I <3 the 2nd amendment and I have wet dreams about AK-47s.

One the other hand, I do think that gun regulation helps, and that if we can find a better way to do it, it would be for the best.

So, here's my idea. We still allow people to buy guns, but they have to go through a government mandated safety, maintenance, and regulation course before they can obtain a license, and from that, a gun. Apply to everything, bolt actions, shotguns, autos, semi autos, bows, muskets, flintlocks, i.e.

Think of it like the way you get different licenses for different vehicles. The higher up on the scale, and the more dangerous the weapon, the more training and restrictions are applied.


Also, the process of medical/psychological screening should be applied to licensing.


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Re: Obama's Gun Control. - May 18th 2009, 03:34 AM

Hey, thats a pretty good idea Ben or at least I don't see anything wrong with that. I thought you already had to have a license in order to buy/sell a gun though? Maybe I was mistaken.


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Re: Obama's Gun Control. - May 18th 2009, 03:51 AM

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Hey, thats a pretty good idea Ben or at least I don't see anything wrong with that. I thought you already had to have a license in order to buy/sell a gun though? Maybe I was mistaken.
You do, but the process is a joke. There's very little to stop the wrong people from applying and getting guns. It's almost as easy as getting a hunting license.


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Re: Obama's Gun Control. - May 18th 2009, 04:01 AM

Really? That sucks. What all do you have to do for the license? I have yet to learn about all the legal stuff surrounding guns. I want to try and learn how to shoot this summer but i dont think my dad will teach me.


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Re: Obama's Gun Control. - May 18th 2009, 05:05 AM

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But making the gun illegal means he wont get the gun to go on a shooting spree in the first place, hence why America has lots of school shootings compared to one in the UK, we've also only had one other proper shooting spree and that was before our gun laws came into effect.
murderers who plan to kill people illegally won't really have a problem accquiring a gun illegally to do so.


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Re: Obama's Gun Control. - May 18th 2009, 05:09 AM

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murderers who plan to kill people illegally won't really have a problem accquiring a gun illegally to do so.
Nor will they have a problem doing so legally if they wished. As I've said above, a large source of illegal guns come from the legal market therefore making legal guns illegal makes getting an illegal gun more difficult and expensive. Sure, if they tried hard enough they might be able to get one, but that's not an argument for making it easier for them.

In the UK I would have absolutely no clue where to go for an illegal gun if i wanted to murder someone. I know some people who might be able to get one, but only with great difficulty and expense and it's still unlikely that they'd be successful. In the case of a crime of passion it will be difficult for them to get hold of the gun at first and then they will have an opportunity to calm down rather than being able to walk straight out the door with one, with pre-meditated murder they'll find some way of attempting to kill the victim regardless.

Last edited by Jack; May 18th 2009 at 05:17 AM. Reason: Added a little bit.
   
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