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I think people should see this - April 5th 2016, 08:08 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MD8GSyLaxrI

Draw your own conclusions. This is not "right wing propaganda". I have relatives who have moved to Germany, who speak of similar enough incidents.

She is the child's mother. She will almost certainly be biased and one-sided in her family's favor. This does not explain the appalling police response however.


.


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.


   
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Re: I think people should see this - April 5th 2016, 10:48 AM

I watched it. I'm not trying to steal your thunder, but my town is far crazier than that. The whole video reminded me of my hometown where those instances of violence are commonplace, although our police usually are usually more restrained. But if you think that was crazy... Our government literally practiced military combat training in the middle of our city, shooting up abandoned apartments and blowing up buildings. This was done so discreetly, in fact, that it only made local news. To add onto that, our state government allowed our water supply to be poisoned. You would think we were the terrorists.
Yeah, I don't mean to sound like a dick, but that was my response to the video. A kid got the shit kicked out of him by some teenagers... I shrugged, because at least he'll be ok (perhaps not psychologically, though). The police were involved in some sketchy, covered up, government-sponsored breaking and entering. I shrugged again, because I'm just used to craziness like that. I'm just surprised Germany isn't showing better accountability and restraint than America. I would expect better from them.


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Re: I think people should see this - April 5th 2016, 03:09 PM

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Originally Posted by MichWolverineFreak View Post
I'm just surprised Germany isn't showing better accountability and restraint than America. I would expect better from them.
That is pretty much what I think.

People need to be held accountable. But she gives too little information to make this possible. It's a big problem. There are no names mentioned besides her son's: Tyron.

And to me, it's part of a bigger picture. It very closely echoes what happened in Germany on New Year's Eve. I truly believe anyone involved in cover ups like that deserves very long jail sentences. 10 years at least, and I honestly don't give a fuck about what ends it serves, or in whose favor it is, liberal or conservative.

The consequences of such abuse of power are far greater than some individual, or even a gang of them, chasing people through neighborhoods with knives for a mobile phone. Or list almost any other common street crime. Even murder. If these kinds of incidents are allowed to continue, the consequences will be much worse than that. Asylum shelters have already been set on fire. Those are the kinds of responses I'm talking about, and it is the fault of the police and their superiors for lying about it all and mishandling the situation, which has only further aggravated the public. If the police don't do their job, citizens will... and that's called anarchy.

.


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.


   
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Re: I think people should see this - April 5th 2016, 04:59 PM

BE more open, be more politically correct, be more welcoming. This is the effect of people being blind to the obvious. I wanted to say "an effect of government not caring about their citizens", but who am I lying to, they never gave a rat's ass about you, me or anybody.

And yeah, shit like that happens all around. It's not propaganda, it's reality. Simple.
   
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Re: I think people should see this - April 5th 2016, 05:22 PM

Ok, first of, I'm pissed. Like really really angry right now, but trying to stay calm her because we're all friends and stuff.
The reaction of the police was maybe a bit over the top. Maybe.
BUT! really, the way we view weapons her in Germany is way different than in other contries like maybe the US. If you draw a knive everybody will be scared and that's just a knive. We don#t have guns her usually. There are only very vew people who have them and most only because of work. I've never seen a real gun before and if someone drew a gun in public, and it doesn't matter if he's pointing it at anyone or not, then I would call the police asap and they would sent a bunch of man right away.
With what's happend in brüssel everybody is a bit on edge and you just can't pull a gun in public. no matter if it's face or not!
I'm more like relieved the police acted like that because honestly they didn't know what the hell was going on. They weren't there. All they got told is that there was a man who pulled a gun in public and was said to have pointed it at someone. Really. That's all they know. Then add in the fact that apparently he has been responsibel for trouble before and sure as hell they will go after him.
Also why the fuck would that woman and her husband go after the guys who beat up her kid? The police told them to take their son and go to the police station but no, of course they had to act on their own. There's a reason the police officer told them to go to the police station. Really.

It's a shame her son was beaten up and shure as hell I hope they will punish the guys responsible ot this but everything else was her own damn fault and if you ask me she has no right to complain!

Maybe I'm biased because my cousin is a policewoman but really, they rarely ever act out of order and have to deal with people spiting at them throwing things and complaing all the time and if they make one small mistake everybody screams how brutal they are and how wrong they act and shit which is just wrong. They rarely ever do, but still they have to take the shit.

Appart from that... really she wrote encounter with muslims. Noone said they were muslims. Them being asylum seekers says nothing about their religion, really now...

Sorry if I'm coming on a bit to strong here, but there are so many people complaining, but never actually doing something to make a change. They don't try. they only complain and vote for right wing partys because they don't agree with how the others are handeling things. It's because of people like that that the Afd is becoming more and more populare and it's because of people like that that we will go back to 1931 in a few years and I'm so fucking sick of it and listening to people complain about money and how unfair everything is.
And I'll just end this here, because I'm getting of topic and if I continue I will get really angry....


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Re: I think people should see this - April 5th 2016, 07:23 PM

I get her child is injured but what does that have to do with those teenagers being Muslim refugees? Kids get bullied everyday in every country. You deal with it like how you would towards any teenager. And oh the media certainly does cover this on the news all the time. So there's no need to "spread the word". The news loves saying how refugees are raping German women. I even hear people saying in my college, "I don't want Syrians to come here because they're going to rape me." Ridiculous. I'm tired of all the hate.
   
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Re: I think people should see this - April 6th 2016, 11:34 PM

I get the whole "religion isn't race" kind of arguments... but it is simply pedantic. Recent migrants which have entered Europe, are pretty much from predominantly Arab countries, which are generally ran by Muslim culture, etc. I mean, for real, how likely is it that they are atheist, or Buddhist, or Christian instead? Further South in Africa there are a lot of different varieties of religion, but these people mostly come from North Africa and Middle East.

Using the these different terms (migrant, asylum seeker, Muslim, Arab) interchangeably is technically wrong, but zooming in on these kinds of technicalities as if they "debunk" anything on bigger scale is frankly distracting from the main point. People will often word things poorly, especially if they're angry. And yes, people tend to generalize other people whom they judge to be "outsiders". All people do this, at most only differing in how they categorize other people (by race, religion, education, wealth, region, age, etc... infinite number of ways to do it). There's a proper word for this in psychology but I've forgotten it. And no, it is not "racism" (not directing this comment at anyone specifically here, just a general fyi). The entire study of population demographics is pretty much exactly that: categorizing/generalizing people into groups and analysing this.

I hear the kinds of arguments like "Islam is a religion not a race" used by left and right politics, and they are just moot. Those arguments rarely prove or disprove anything when they're used, and just derail the discussion into bickering over details. In court, yes, these sorts of details would be very relevant, as they should be if there is to be any kind of true justice served on an individual basis (as opposed to punishing entire groups). But we're not in court.

I've got to agree though on the point that the parents should have filed the fking police report when they were told to. I agree on the sensitivity towards guns too probably, although I don't know Germany that well. Nonetheless, German police appear very passive towards dealing with crime arising as a general side-effect of the recent migrant influx, so I'm also not surprised the parents decided to act on their own. If I am wrong about the police in this case... I will gladly hear anyone out. I'm always trying to see the bigger picture. I would count counter-terrorism as a separate issue though.


.


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.


   
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Re: I think people should see this - April 7th 2016, 12:01 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Etari View Post
Sorry if I'm coming on a bit to strong here, but there are so many people complaining, but never actually doing something to make a change. They don't try. they only complain and vote for right wing partys because they don't agree with how the others are handeling things. It's because of people like that that the Afd is becoming more and more populare and it's because of people like that that we will go back to 1931 in a few years and I'm so fucking sick of it and listening to people complain about money and how unfair everything is.
I understand that point of view very well. Yes, there are idiots among them. There are also people among them who are angry at how things have been misshandled, and women pissed off at being groped on New Year's Eve, and many others.

When shit hits the fan, people tend to look for scapegoats, and assign the blame as far away from themselves as they can. This is wrong, because there are almost always several influences which can be blamed.

"The people" you speak of are not responsible
by themselves for the AFD becoming more popular. Those kinds of people have always existed, and the situation 10 years ago was far more stable despite that. There are a lot of factors influencing the current situation, and I don't even want to get started. All I want to say, is that looking for scapegoats in right-wing politics and blaming them for what is happening, even though they were not even actually in power when these decisions were made... is wrong. Right-wing is growing because the left-wing mismanaged their responsibilities, and if the left-wing don't get their shit together, the right-wing will get a lot worse. Letting in, millions of migrants in the space of a few months, was irresponsible. The fact that Merkel decided to this, just several days after major PEGIDA protests... WHAT?!? I thought it was a troll when I first heard it. She didn't even wait a month for people to calm down first. Of course the right wing gained popularity soon after, and she is a lot to blame for it. She gave them fuel, and I assure you, many right-wing leaders are probably very grateful for it. Without her, they might have even been forgotten.

Why is Merkel trying to make a deal with Turkey now? Why the fuck can't the EU put up border fences? Shit. Common sense. Jesus f Christ. Turkey is becoming unstable as fuck in itself, and not a country to be relied on. Even if you make a deal with the current government, there's no telling what will be happening 2 or 3 years from now, who will be in power then, and what they'll do.


.


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.


   
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Re: I think people should see this - April 7th 2016, 08:04 AM

The police is trying to solve everything. The problem is, that it's basicly chaos and there are quiet a lot of people who haven't been registered. So they have a lot of trouble finding the people responsible for the crimes. They are trying though. They even publish pictures of the people in the hopes of someone recognicing them. Their work just get's harder when people don't cooperate with them anymore because they think it's useless. You can't solve a crime of noone's willing to talk.

Actually I agree on that. You really can't blame rigth wing for anything. They've always been there, they always will and they never actually try to hide their opinion. Whom I actually blame are the people. Not all, but many because, yes things have been handled wrong and there's a lot to improve but if you ask me that doesn't excuse anything.
I get that people aren't happy because this costs of tones of money and there's a lot of people coming here. But the partys they vote for want to change laws. They want to bann woman from votings, want to go back to the roll models of the 20 with women in the kitchen and men working. They basicly said that being homosexuall will be banned and imigrants will be thrown out. One women said that they should shoot everyone trying to get into the country.
I sure as hell understand why people don't agree with how things are going but voting for partys who will take our freedom away just isn't the right thing to do...
Sure, there are criminals among the asylum seekers. But they are everywhere. Someone once said the percentage of assholes is the same everwhere, no matter if it's women, men, immigrants, right wing activists or pet lovers. They are everwhere. People just tend to see only the bad and forget about the nice people. One person out of a few thousands commits a crime and people start to act like all asylum seekers are criminals.
As much as PEGIDA is discussed, I don't have anything against it. It's people voicing their opinion in a harmless way.
That the people came right after the demonstrations was just bad luck. I mean, noone went down there and told them to come here now. They came here by themself.

The reason why the EU isn't closing their borders actually is pretty simple. The main idea of the EU was (or at least has been for about 20 years) to pull down borders. To connect people and make traveling and stuff open. Also there's laws here in Germany that you have to protect people who are in need and the people coming here right now are (mostly) in need.
Also they need to go somewhere. Like, you can't just leave them on the other side of the fence and let them die. That's just horrible.
And what I think is one of the biggest reasons is history. Bach from the 50s up to the 90s we had fences. A lot of them. People were killed because they protested against them. They were locked up in their own countrys and all that shit.
Fences don't solve anything. They simply try to shut out a problem that will catch up to you sooner or later anyway. You can't just shut out milions of people.

If you aks me the biggest problem is, that the partys aren't working together right now. Merkels party tried to pass a law that anyone asylum seeker who commits a crime will be thrown out. Also they want to pass a law where everyone who doesn't try to integrate and learn german and stuff will sooner or later be thrown out as well.
That law didn't pass because the other partys claimed it wasn't enough. Sure maybe there is room for improvement, but it's a start. But they are against it because they are trying to get more followers. Not only right wing partys, it's basicly everyone. That's the real problem. They try to use the situation instead of trying to solve it.


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Re: I think people should see this - April 10th 2016, 05:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Etari View Post
The police is trying to solve everything. The problem is, that it's basicly chaos and there are quiet a lot of people who haven't been registered. So they have a lot of trouble finding the people responsible for the crimes. They are trying though. They even publish pictures of the people in the hopes of someone recognicing them. Their work just get's harder when people don't cooperate with them anymore because they think it's useless. You can't solve a crime of noone's willing to talk.

Actually I agree on that. You really can't blame rigth wing for anything. They've always been there, they always will and they never actually try to hide their opinion. Whom I actually blame are the people. Not all, but many because, yes things have been handled wrong and there's a lot to improve but if you ask me that doesn't excuse anything.
I get that people aren't happy because this costs of tones of money and there's a lot of people coming here. But the partys they vote for want to change laws. They want to bann woman from votings, want to go back to the roll models of the 20 with women in the kitchen and men working. They basicly said that being homosexuall will be banned and imigrants will be thrown out. One women said that they should shoot everyone trying to get into the country.
I sure as hell understand why people don't agree with how things are going but voting for partys who will take our freedom away just isn't the right thing to do...
Sure, there are criminals among the asylum seekers. But they are everywhere. Someone once said the percentage of assholes is the same everwhere, no matter if it's women, men, immigrants, right wing activists or pet lovers. They are everwhere. People just tend to see only the bad and forget about the nice people. One person out of a few thousands commits a crime and people start to act like all asylum seekers are criminals.
As much as PEGIDA is discussed, I don't have anything against it. It's people voicing their opinion in a harmless way.
That the people came right after the demonstrations was just bad luck. I mean, noone went down there and told them to come here now. They came here by themself.

The reason why the EU isn't closing their borders actually is pretty simple. The main idea of the EU was (or at least has been for about 20 years) to pull down borders. To connect people and make traveling and stuff open. Also there's laws here in Germany that you have to protect people who are in need and the people coming here right now are (mostly) in need.
Also they need to go somewhere. Like, you can't just leave them on the other side of the fence and let them die. That's just horrible.
And what I think is one of the biggest reasons is history. Bach from the 50s up to the 90s we had fences. A lot of them. People were killed because they protested against them. They were locked up in their own countrys and all that shit.
Fences don't solve anything. They simply try to shut out a problem that will catch up to you sooner or later anyway. You can't just shut out milions of people.

If you aks me the biggest problem is, that the partys aren't working together right now. Merkels party tried to pass a law that anyone asylum seeker who commits a crime will be thrown out. Also they want to pass a law where everyone who doesn't try to integrate and learn german and stuff will sooner or later be thrown out as well.
That law didn't pass because the other partys claimed it wasn't enough. Sure maybe there is room for improvement, but it's a start. But they are against it because they are trying to get more followers. Not only right wing partys, it's basicly everyone. That's the real problem. They try to use the situation instead of trying to solve it.
I think I like most of your comment, besides a few points.
  1. 1. My understanding was that one of the founding reasons for the EU's creation was to improve movement of people within Europe. That was the Schengen agreement. That has been challenging enough by itself, because of the variety of countries in Europe and their differences. Opening Europe's borders in the same way, to the rest of the world... is crazy. I think 1.5 million migrants have arrived in Europe during the migration crisis, and the turbulence it has caused has been bad enough as it is. If the reported several million more migrants waiting in camps had been let into Europe too... Merkel might have even gotten dragged out of her office and beaten up in the street for it. That's how people sometimes react. It's written about in History books.
  2. "Leaving them on the other side of the fence to die"... wouldn't mean they would die. The migrants had many other places they could have settled in. As they have now for example, in Turkey. I'm not saying Europe should not have helped out at all, but it should have been more controlled, selective and careful. The remainder would have migrated to other surrounding geographical locations. Instead, by pretty much encouraging them (at least initially) to all come to Europe... that's exactly what they tried to do, until Hungary put up fences.
  3. Fences... walls... I get it, Germany hates the Berlin wall and walls in general. But what you said: "Fences don't solve anything. They simply try to shut out a problem that will catch up to you sooner or later anyway"... is really an idealistic statement, which could actually be applied factually to the Berlin wall, but taking this out of context and establishing it as a "universal principle" of some sort, is misguided. Fences do solve certain problems. Many problems. The objective of a fence in this context should not be to stop all movement of people, no. But to control it at least, yes. During the start of the migration crisis, there was no control whatsoever. A lot of people were let into Europe who needed help. A lot of people were also let into Europe, who didn't need it. Many of those people have not been registered (like you said), which makes life very easy for criminals... my next (and final) point.
  4. You said: "One person out of a thousand commits a crime and people start to act like all asylum seekers are criminals". The problem is, poverty breeds crime, and crime breeds poverty. Importing poverty, from another country, will always increase crime, if you do not have enough police to enforce the law on them, and to protect them. People often forget that the law is there to protect them. The specifics of Islamic culture and it's own attitudes are really just that: specifics. The problems Europe faces right now because of the 1.5 million migrants, would probably not be much different if for whatever reasons those migrants came from India instead, or rural Russia, or provincial China, or Bolivia.

The parties not working together, probably is the biggest problem. I know little about the insides of Germany's politics, but this is generally a problem almost everywhere. There is a crisis, and every fking political party is of course going to try and use it to their advantage, instead of finding the most effective solutions to the actual problems. Like you said, if they were interested in solving problems, they would have let Merkel pass the legislation. I know very little about this, but it doesn't surprise me at all. This is the single biggest reason why I hate politics. It isn't about problem solving, it is about power. Every party wants to be in power. In many cases, people even just create problems which don't exist, just to get in power.


It can make your head explode thinking about it too much.



.


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.


   
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