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Teachers. - April 15th 2016, 04:40 AM

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I heard on the news that a school in the US are thinking about letting up to 5 of their teachers carry guns on them as a precaution.

Thoughts?


   
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Re: Teachers. - April 15th 2016, 10:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmony. View Post
I heard on the news that a school in the US are thinking about letting up to 5 of their teachers carry guns on them as a precaution.

Thoughts?
I haven't lived in America so don't really know how much I can say about these kinds of things.

As long as the teachers are not "randomly" picked, but instead picked on the basis of their "aptitude", mental stability, etc. then I think I would support it. I would support it partially because I am aware of the problems America & Canada have had with school shootings, which are the result of guns falling into the wrong hands. Putting guns in the right hands should at least do it's small part in moderating the problem. I would not support something like this in the UK for example at all.

Basically my attitude towards this is similar to gun control in general. I do support general public having access to firearms, but I do not think every person indiscriminately should be allowed to carry. There should be some control. People with poor mental health history should generally not be allowed to carry. Similar for criminals (although I can think of quite rational exceptions to this). There should be checks, and in some contexts more rigorous checks, obviously. Like when in an airport, or bank. Common sense. Same applies to schools. The last thing anyone would want happening is a careless teacher allowing his/her gun to get stolen from their drawer because the lock was too cheap.


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Re: Teachers. - April 15th 2016, 10:43 AM

I'm not from the US either so I'll probably have a different perspective.

I understand the need for protection, as I've heard about the school shootings. But at the same time, my biggest concern would be the storing of the guns. Ideally, in a locked cabinet, but then in an emergency would that be effective? At the same time, you definitely don't want guns laying around, as children and teenagers could get hold of them (I'm thinking of the other stories I hear about toddlers and small children getting hold of guns accidentally). To be honest, I would probably prefer having some sort of police officer stationed at each school with a gun, than having a classroom teacher with a gun in a classroom. Although, in general, I don't really like guns


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Re: Teachers. - April 15th 2016, 02:52 PM

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Originally Posted by DutchWelshWolf View Post
To be honest, I would probably prefer having some sort of police officer stationed at each school with a gun, than having a classroom teacher with a gun in a classroom.
I was sort of thinking exactly the same thing. The problem with this is that most of these school shootings appear to be planned.

Someone who plans something like this, will know to target the police officer first... and self-defense from a surprise attack like that would be far harder for an officer than most people assume. To stay vigilant and capable of anticipating such an attack for an entire school day... I don't know. I wouldn't trust such a system to work. Of course it is kind of an organizational issue too. If police officers were to do this in shifts, it would be a lot more manageable. But a school environment, just generally is not the kind of environment where someone would intuitively feel the need to be "vigilant", even for just half an hour, unless for example there is an earlier tip-off of a potential attack. Of course... it also depends on what school it is. My parents generally made a good effort to send me to better schools, though I (and almost every person with a brain) is aware of schools where there are stabbings regularly inside or outside the school gates, etc.

Somehow, I just get the feeling that putting guns in the hands of several selected teachers would work better, and that the identities of such teachers would not be revealed to the public. That is how it (kind of) works with air marshals. It is just a feeling though. There is plenty to argue about. A police presence in some schools might be a good idea for other reasons too. Or it might not be. I don't know.

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Re: Teachers. - April 15th 2016, 03:04 PM

We had an actual police officer stationed at our high school.
   
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Re: Teachers. - April 15th 2016, 04:21 PM

Most schools I've been to have a police officer stationed at the school all day. I don't think teachers should carry weapons, though I also think gun control should be much stricter in general. As far as someone knowing an officer would be the one to carry a weapon, the schools I've been to with officers don't have them stationed in one part of the school all day. They move around, and not in the same way every day. Of course there are other reasons to have an officer at a school other than protection from possible gunmen. I'd rather have schools have an officer who appears to be a member of regular staff if people thought it was necessary.



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Re: Teachers. - April 17th 2016, 06:05 PM

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Originally Posted by Harmony. View Post
I heard on the news that a school in the US are thinking about letting up to 5 of their teachers carry guns on them as a precaution.

Thoughts?

Realistically, only like a handful of school districts have considered this. The US is really, really large. Heck, we have more people in 1 state (California) than Sweden does. 9.5 million vs 38 million. Think about that. Actually, it's multiple states like Texas, New York (the state, not the city. The city is close though), Florida, etc.


So it is kind of important for Europeans to kind of think of the US as the whole EU. In that regard, the EU member countries out number the population of the US but it is closer in comparison since they have 5.07 million and the US has 3.18 million people. Which is also why the US doesn't travel as much because we have quite a few different travel sites in the US (Florida = Costa del Sol, Colorado is known for skiing, two ocean costs, large parks, etc).


So in reality, schools in the US planning to allow teachers to carry guns is misleading. It is a drop in a bucket compared to all the schools in the US. It doesn't tell us what region in the US is planning this. Large cities are drastically different than smaller, rural areas. Each state makes up their own laws. I am a nurse in one state but I cannot cross state lines and work as a nurse without getting a license in that state (excluding a special circumstance) so in a way it is like a different country. I currently have 2 nursing licenses with different requirements and 2 paramedic licenses 1 of which is expired and no longer valid.


My thoughts on it? It wouldn't make a difference for most schools. School shootings are a rarity to begin with. Yes there's a lot of media coverage of them but they have rarely happened. People who want to harm people will. The majority of high school students will graduate without ever having a bomb threat or a shooting.
   
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Re: Teachers. - April 17th 2016, 06:23 PM

why would you allow teachers to carry guns... what if the kid turns the guns on the teachers gets the guns and shoots people? you're just making it alot easier for school shootings....



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Re: Teachers. - April 17th 2016, 09:06 PM

Apparently the schools aren't going to make it known who is going to be carrying the guns.

But, I still don't like that idea of it. I don't think guns should be allowed on campuses. But, I don't think schools have enough precautions in place either. I mean, my high school had security but no police officers except for the probation officers.


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Re: Teachers. - April 18th 2016, 02:27 PM

As long as the teachers go through rigorous evaluations in order to be the ones to carry the guns, I like the idea. A lot of people are saying it would be easy for kids to get the gun. We wouldn't know which teacher had them. That's kind of the point. Kids would not get a hold of the gun. It would most likely be placed somewhere safe but quickly accessible where the students don't go. Also, why are people more comfortable with a cop, who has a gun, on campus than a teacher who could have had years of experience with firearms?. You think cops are some highly trained operatives with a gun and know all about them? I know many teachers who were in the military and know how to use a weapon better than most of the cops stationed at the school. I think it's a good idea that would probably ease some concerns of people.
   
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Re: Teachers. - April 18th 2016, 07:39 PM

This is the most stupidest thing I have ever heard. If you let teachers carry guns then lyif a student brings one they can't be yelled at for it because teachers are carrying them too. If I was still in school and my school allowed teachers to carry guns I would go to homeschooling. I do not feel safe around guns mostly because of my mental state. This would make it so much easier for kids to kill kids. I don't care if they aren't letting students know whose caring the guns they can find out. Take them and shoot people or themselves. I think this is a stupid stupid Idea.


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Re: Teachers. - April 18th 2016, 08:50 PM

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If you let teachers carry guns then if a student brings one they can't be yelled at for it because teachers are carrying them too.
While I don't support teachers carrying guns, this isn't quite true. There are plenty of things teachers are allowed to do that students are not. For example, a teacher can normally carry a cell phone and/or take a call during the school day while students are usually forbidden from even having a cell phone in sight/on their person.



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Re: Teachers. - April 18th 2016, 11:38 PM

If they went though proper training,certifications,evaluations to have some carry I wouldn't care. Ive seen first hand on how insecure schools in my area are. Ive walked into a "locked" school, picked up my brothers kid, never carded, signed the kid out, without even being questioned why I was there. If the schools in my area are that insecure to let me take a kid out of the school early without prior notification then how easy would it be for someone to walk into a school to kill people.
   
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Re: Teachers. - April 19th 2016, 12:20 PM

Awful idea. Stun guns and tasers for security guards, maybe. But I'm not going to accept ideas that are proposed by psychopaths like Ted Cruz who think owning a gun is a "God-given right". I've seen too many of these whack-jobs to trust their ideas.


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Re: Teachers. - April 20th 2016, 05:11 PM

I honestly don't like the idea of teachers having guns. It sounds like a storm of chaos just waiting to happen. I also saw the picture of a person holding a sign (in the United States) that read: "Its easier to get a gun in this country than it is to get an education." And I honestly feel like allowing teachers to carry guns is just furthering his point. I don't like how a lot of people around here (I'm from Michigan) believe the only way to protect themselves is by using a gun and a gun is the most important need for them over a lot of other things that should be important.


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Re: Teachers. - April 21st 2016, 01:51 AM

Everyone who is an adult should be allowed to carry guns, even students.
   
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Re: Teachers. - April 21st 2016, 05:49 AM

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I honestly don't like the idea of teachers having guns. It sounds like a storm of chaos just waiting to happen. I also saw the picture of a person holding a sign (in the United States) that read: "Its easier to get a gun in this country than it is to get an education." And I honestly feel like allowing teachers to carry guns is just furthering his point. I don't like how a lot of people around here (I'm from Michigan) believe the only way to protect themselves is by using a gun and a gun is the most important need for them over a lot of other things that should be important.
That is a stupid argument to make. Guns are easier to get than an education? It depends.


First off, school for children is free and required. So no, it is not easier to get a gun than an education since all kids have to be educated up to a certain age (usually sixteen). Otherwise parents go to jail. Higher ed? Well, to be honest I would hope that it is harder to get a degree from a college or university than to own a gun. After all, these are people that could be nurses, bankers, medical assistants, etc.
   
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Re: Teachers. - April 21st 2016, 09:31 PM

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That is a stupid argument to make. Guns are easier to get than an education? It depends.


First off, school for children is free and required. So no, it is not easier to get a gun than an education since all kids have to be educated up to a certain age (usually sixteen). Otherwise parents go to jail. Higher ed? Well, to be honest I would hope that it is harder to get a degree from a college or university than to own a gun. After all, these are people that could be nurses, bankers, medical assistants, etc.
You're allowed to respectfully disagree with me. I on the other hand honestly don't think its that "stupid" of an argument. I get every point you're making. But let's also put some more information in this context. Here in America, just because a law says "Every child must be educated." Doesn't necessarily mean it happens. 1 in 4 children in America grow up without learning to read. School is not free. Public schools for grades K-12 usually do not require tuition, but school is not free. Many families cannot afford to send their kids even to a public school because they can't afford to buy all of the supplies, clothing, books even (yes, even in public school, they are allowed to force their students to pay for their own books, not just college), pay for transportation. The system is highly flawed. Parents are supposed to be charged or go to jail if they don't send their children to school, but that doesn't always happen. "Nearly 85% of the juveniles who face trial in the juvenile court system are functionally illiterate, proving that there is a close relationship between illiteracy and crime. More than 60% of all inmates are functionally illiterate." And guns are usually related to crime. But I do agree with you, you do have to work for your degree, you can't just out and buy it, like you can a gun. But I believe we should fix a lot of the cracks in our education system. We shouldn't teach American citizens to value a gun more than education. Guns shouldn't be so easily available as they are now. But that's just my belief.


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Re: Teachers. - April 21st 2016, 11:21 PM

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While I don't support teachers carrying guns, this isn't quite true. There are plenty of things teachers are allowed to do that students are not. For example, a teacher can normally carry a cell phone and/or take a call during the school day while students are usually forbidden from even having a cell phone in sight/on their person.
That might be the case where you are. But in cali you are allowed you cell phone and to use it on breaks and lunch just not during class.


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Re: Teachers. - April 22nd 2016, 02:14 AM

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Originally Posted by Shooting Star View Post

That might be the case where you are. But in cali you are allowed you cell phone and to use it on breaks and lunch just not during class.
It was just one example. My point is that just because a teacher is allowed to do something does not mean a student won't get in trouble for doing the same thing. Students are children, they are not considered adults. There are some legal adults in schools, but the majority are minors.



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Re: Teachers. - April 22nd 2016, 05:30 AM

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American citizens to value a gun more than education. Guns shouldn't be so easily available as they are now. But that's just my belief.
I kinda agree with you on that. Thats why to own a gun legally a person should go though the proper gun education to own it... At that point gun education is promoted.

But with the that stats you were saying in your post, most gun crimes where from guns not legally obtained. So you can't really use that gun and crime paradigm on this.

But to get to your point, I do agree more focus should be toward our education. But not the stuff they teach in school. but more focused on reading/writing, proper grammar, basic math (i.e. stopping at fractions because we don't really need that algebra and trig in real life) learning a second language, laws, and taxes.
   
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