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Factions of Liberals and Conservatives - November 10th 2016, 04:01 PM

This thread will likely be biased. I'm making it to correct my perspective, if I'm wrong about this.

I've seen both groups making sweeping generalizations about each other. I can tell you... that in the right wing, people are not all the same. There is, a lot, of disagreement in the right wing, and a lot of different factions/groups with very different priorities. Some even hate Trump. Some consist of disaffected Liberals who jumped ship (which is why Trump probably won).

I want to understand if the same exists on the left. I'm sure it does to some degree, but I'm not convinced it exists to the same extent as on the right. I don't want to say anymore at this stage because I've noticed it usually puts people off commenting when I say too much.

I want to highlight though, that on the right, many of these "factions" argue with each other a lot. How often does this happen on the left? My observations are that LGBT groups, feminist groups, BLM, etc. rather tend to stand together in "solidarity". Their movements/arguments tend to be more coordinated and in agreement with each other.

So... what's the deal with this on left? Have I been missing something? I've not seen much of this at all, which sort of makes me guilty on occasions of stereotyping the left wing supporters, although I always recognise the difference between "moderates" and "extremists" in any ideology.

.


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.



Last edited by BDF; November 10th 2016 at 04:23 PM.
   
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Re: Factions of Liberals and Conservatives - November 10th 2016, 04:58 PM

I'd agree this is true in the USA. The liberals will unite for the next election, but there generally tend to be factions among them based on how liberal they are. There are the neoliberals (Clintons, the failures) who love the democratic party to a fault and call anyone like Bernie Sanders who has big ideas a 'dreamer' (I have a bias, but I see it all the time online), there are the classic liberals like Bernie that would likely fit under the term 'democratic socialist' (absolutely not to be confused with 'socialist'), hippies, "SJWs" (I think its a stupid term, but whatever. Many of them, not so much the higher-ups, also tend to focus only on the social problems) and there are the minorities who know the Republican party doesn't care about them, so they vote Democrat, aaand... that might be all I can think of. As for conservatives, there are also factions. Trump fans are kind of a faction in and of themselves, but I don't like to see all Trump fans stereotyped as neo-nazis. I would split them into three categories: The rural poor who I don't really mind, the alt-right neonazis (no, I'm not over exaggerating), and the suburban douchebag (tend to be younger, entitled, sexist, trending very racist). For more classic conservatives, there are neo-conservatives (extremely aggressive in matters of war), libertarians (don't care about anything except low taxes and money), the "principled conservatives"/evangelicals (typically use the Bible as an excuse to enact terrible policy), and the red staters (never been to a place where liberal policies work, so they assume based on Fox News that they fail). Oh, and a huge swath of old people.
There were some stereotypes in there, like there are plenty of great evangelicals, sure, but anyone who read the Bible knows Jesus said to pay your taxes, and they totally ignore it. I'd like to think this was pretty accurate though because our country is under the impression that 'moderate' means somewhere between Democrat and Republican, when thats totally untrue. The Republicans are so far right that it's wrecking any semblance of stability. The Democrats are a center-right party whose higher-ups are all pussies. Congressional Democrats treat Republicans with kid gloves and let them walk all over them because their donors say so. As much as I hate the Republican Party, they always bring the fight when it comes to making policy.


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Re: Factions of Liberals and Conservatives - November 13th 2016, 07:11 PM

The left and right are completely divided. In fact, I think this election really made that apparent.

You have the more conservative left (people who wanted Hillary), and the progressive left (people who wanted Bernie). Like-wise you have the traditional right (people like Cruz), and the far right (people like Trump). Trump and Hillary were NOT classical republicans or democrats. It actually scares me that we're moving far right as a whole. Far right has NEVER ended well.


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Re: Factions of Liberals and Conservatives - November 14th 2016, 01:00 AM

This is a little off-topic, but since Reagan, the US has been right-wing (Reagan, HWB), centrist(Clinton), righter wing(Bush), right wing(Obama), and now WTF(Trump). The monetary incentive is there for politicians to be right wing. Right wingers deregulate the campaign financing process then go after rich donors to help finance elections. Lol, according to the courts, "Corporations are people and money is speech". It's the dumbest logic ever, but the rich say to the politicians, "Hey, if you lower taxes, deregulate, or offer me a government contract, I'll donate money to your campaign." And they do they that on both sides. That's why Republicans, who have all that on their platform, aggressively do it, then Democrats act like they don't then go, "Well sorry guys, there's nothing we could do!" And liberals still think we gotta keep electing corporate Democrats because of their social views, comparing them to Republicans and saying, "yup, they're the good guys." Keep in mind that Obama's first term with Congress was WAY full of Democrats. They barely did anything financially progressive like regulate the banks that destroyed the economy (The Dodd-Frank Act they did get was complete bullshit compared to the Glass-Steagall Act that we used to have). And Obamacare is flawed because instead of going for single-payer health care (which they bitched out on) they tried to mix it with capitalist ideals, giving private companies the teeth to screw everything up. They should have adopted medicare for all, but that's too left-wing for Democrats.
Tons of people say Obama is a socialist, but thats bullcrap. His tax rates are really freakin low compared to historical precedent. The top marginal tax rate is slightly less than 40%, which is pathetically low- hardly anybody pays that much because you can either exploit tax loopholes or put money in offshore accounts, making them untaxable. The effective tax rate is 17%, I believe. For reference, Eisenhower, a Republican, had the top marginal tax rate at 91%, but the loopholes usually put it down to 40%. Truman, a Democrat, had 94%.
What was I getting at? Democratic politicians aren't liberal, but Republicans sure as hell are conservative. Bernie Sanders was our first taste of classic liberalism in a long time. If it wasn't for him, I don't think people would even understand how far the political spectrum goes.


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Re: Factions of Liberals and Conservatives - November 15th 2016, 03:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by In the Rye View Post
Far right has NEVER ended well.
Let's be fair here. Far left never ended well either.

.


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.


   
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