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BDF Offline
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Altruism/Egoism & the Left Wing - November 19th 2016, 10:28 PM

I really would appreciate responses on this. This is a reply I gave elsewhere. I'm re-posting it here (with some minor edits) because I want more opinions. This was a response to someone arguing that:
Quote:
There is no such thing as "altruism", because someone acting "selflessly" is virtually always due to some personality trait that is self-serving. As in:
"Why do you put others before yourself?"
"Because it is the right thing to do."
"And YOU WANT to do the right thing?"
"Yes."
So in a way, I think, even "selflessness" (altruism) is practiced out of a desire to fulfill one's own desires, which is selfishness."
So I'd appreciate any input. I often post left-wing points of views in right-wing forums, and right-wing points of views in left wing forums... to provoke response. Be warned, some generalizations are made. Otherwise it would have been 5x longer:

Quote:
Genuine altruism arises mostly out of a person's subconscious desire to help others, even at his/her own expense. It's a form of personal sacrifice. Whereas much of the left-wing today does it, simply because it "feels good". Many will even engage in shitposting, defending one social group whilst openly deriding another. Some have even focused entirely on attacking certain social groups, instead of defending others, which isn't "helping" anyone. Therefore, there is ultimately nothing altruistic about that, considering that one action cancels out the other, or even overcompensates it. But despite that, both of those actions ultimately "feel good" to them, regardless of those actions actually helping anyone, which is an egotistic attitude.

"Feels good" doesn't mean it is "right". The fact that I don't think I've noticed these people often experiencing significant moral dilemma with regards to their actions or the actions of the movements they belong to (or at least they don't show it), is emblematic of some of their arrogance, single-mindedness, and egoism. A person who is more considerate of multiple points of views (an altruistic trait) instead of just their own, will more often experience moral dilemma... which often doesn't "feel good". It is in other words, self-doubt.

I think their egotistic position on this is even clearer when you consider some leftists' amplified hostility towards people from minority groups who favor conservatism. From what I've observed by reading comments in various places, such leftists feel "betrayed", because they feel like those minority groups are indebted to them for their hard work on behalf of those minority groups. In other words, they even feel entitled to some form of gratitude from those minority groups, and joining conservative movements violates that "debt". Feelings of entitlement, are also egoism.

Considering what I said above, it can be seen that there are varying degrees of egoism, characterised by various behaviors. There are more extreme, and less extreme cases. This suggests there is in fact a spectrum, with two ends. At one end there is pure egoism, at the other arguably, altruism. It is almost impossible for someone to be placed at the extremes on either end, although people as a species generally lean more towards egoism. An example of an altruistic species would be ants, but even ant colonies experience rivalry between each other (an egotistic trait). Hence many leftist ideas are also simply out of touch with the fundamentals of human nature, and are doomed to fail. Ideals such as collectivisation (that is characteristic of ant colonies), which completely works against certain egoistic personality traits in people and undermines their sense of individualism and initiative/personal motivation. It's like fighting nature. Can't win. Sure, you can bend the rules slightly, but you can't change nature.

I'd be more supportive of of the left (and I used to be), if they just focused on defending oppressed groups. We both know that it's not what they're doing today. 10 years ago I was still often taking these people's side, although I remember being skeptical of things like "political correctness" since my first contact with it.
If I'm talking shit, I want people to tell me that I'm talking shit, and correct me. I'm considering making an article of this in some form or other... so be warned that if you don't correct me if I'm wrong... this is only going to get worse for you. lol. There is some more, also from the same discussion:

Quote:
There's an argument that pathologically/extreme altruistic ideals, are actually usually perpetuated by pathologically egotistic mindsets in the first place. Extreme ideals of any kind are. Not always, but usually. This is because such extreme ideals usually originate from a single person's (or a small group's) beliefs that their personal outlook on the world is the "correct" one, and all others are "incorrect" and therefore dismissed, or even seen as a threat. This is bears similarity to wars waged in the past with regards to "which is the true religion". That single-mindedness... is ironically, egoism itself, despite such people advocating altruistic values (or any other values). That is in fact, the hypocrisy of today's far-left described in a nutshell: the assertion of very altruistic values, by means of very egotistic methods, such as banning certain speakers from campuses just for disagreeing with those values. It's a mentality of "the ends justify the means".

So the general measure of "good" or "evil" which people are trying to establish in the scientific community/psychology, is founded on attempts to objectively quantify a person's position on the altruist/egoist spectrum. An individual person's position on the altruist/egoist spectrum, regardless of their politics and ideals. Politics and ideals only exist in the conscious part of the mind, whereas a person's personality traits (altruistic or egotistic) exist largely in the subconscious part of the mind (although an increased self-awareness can interfere with this). So, where a person's personality lies on this spectrum, is only very loosely correlated with the ideals they preach or the politics they support. Therefore, what politics/ideals someone supports, has very little to do with them being either a "good" or a "bad" person. Whereas the extreme lengths to which people are prepared to go to make their ideals a reality, has very much to do with someone being a "good" or a "bad" person.
.


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.



Last edited by BDF; November 20th 2016 at 01:37 AM.
   
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