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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
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Do you think...? - December 5th 2016, 01:46 AM

This thread has been labeled as triggering by the original poster or by a Moderator. Please take this into consideration before continuing to read.

Do you think that suicide is selfish or wrong?

Why/why not?


   
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Re: Do you think...? - December 5th 2016, 01:58 AM

I don't think it's selfish at all. Obviously the person is struggling and wanted to end their pain. I've seen some memes online that says this:



I agree with it 100%. If I was to kill myself it definitely wouldn't be selfish. It would be because I have so many people in my life that treat me badly. They are the ones that have made me who I am today, and they are the reasons for my attempts in the past. I wouldn't do it because I'm "Selfish" I would do it because I would want all the pain and suffering to end.

I found this article, it definitely puts suicide in a new perspective.



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Re: Do you think...? - December 5th 2016, 02:15 AM

No, I don't think it is selfish. Being mentally ill is an illness and it kills people just like other illnesses do. When people are mentally ill and suicidal they are not in their right minds and all they can think about is making their pain and suffering end.

Edit: After reading about why you posted this I added:
I think there are people who view suicide as selfish but as someone who has attempted and been suicidal I don't think it is. I don't go out of my way to hurt my family or friends but my thoughts do make me think that they would be better off, in the long run, if I was dead.


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Last edited by .:Bibliophile:.; December 5th 2016 at 03:45 AM.
   
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Re: Do you think...? - December 5th 2016, 02:27 AM

I've always said that suicide isn't selfish, it's desperate. Even when it's not impulsive, it's the final act of an ill person who doesn't see any other way out of their pain. A lot of times, people believe that they're a burden and think that it's actually the opposite of selfish because they'd be "relieving" their friends and loved ones by ending their life. I will add, just in case you're asking this because you're considering it, that help is available and your struggles can be worked through so it doesn't feel like an option.


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Re: Do you think...? - December 5th 2016, 02:59 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kate* View Post
I will add, just in case you're asking this because you're considering it, that help is available and your struggles can be worked through so it doesn't feel like an option.
I'm not contemplating suicide. I'm currently doing a course to become a Volunteer Crisis Supporter and they asked us if we thought suicide was selfish or wrong so I was curious as to know what you all thought about it as well.


   
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Re: Do you think...? - December 5th 2016, 03:31 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmony. View Post
I'm not contemplating suicide. I'm currently doing a course to become a Volunteer Crisis Supporter and they asked us if we thought suicide was selfish or wrong so I was curious as to know what you all thought about it as well.

Glad to hear it, we sometimes get vague posts that make me wonder if the person is thinking about it and doesn't want to say so.


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Re: Do you think...? - December 5th 2016, 04:13 AM

I would say that most of the time, it is by definition selfish because it focuses on the self. I don't mean that as an insult, but if someone thinks, "I can't handle this anymore", that statement has 'I' in the sentence. I suppose an unselfish suicidal thought would be, "my family would be better off without me". That makes it about other people, which by definition makes it not selfish... but its still horrible. Is it wrong? I don't know, I'd say it's at best a grey area, but it can almost never be right (to me, at least) unless, say, someone sacrificed themselves for someone else.
I used to be extremely suicidal, but my thoughts were all selfish. "Nobody likes ME", "'I' would be better off dead", "Everybody hates ME", "She'll never be MINE", "I hate MYSELF". All these statements suck, but they were thoughts I always had, and they were always about ME. This isn't popular opinion, but by definition, putting yourSELF over other people is SELFISH, for better or worse.


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Re: Do you think...? - December 5th 2016, 11:19 AM

WARNING - WALL OF TEXT BELOW:


I think the idea of suicide being "selfish" originally comes from Christian teachings. I'm inclined to actually agree to an extent. But it's not that simple.

Strong negative emotions in a person, often lead to egocentric behavior and selfishness. It's psychological. A person in a poor state of mental or physical health, will be more concerned with their own well being. In a way, it makes sense. It's a survival instinct programmed into our brains.

It's hard to get much more "emotionally negative", than when committing suicide (or attempting to), so it's reasonable to expect feelings of selfishness. All that said, committing suicide is obviously completely contradictory to survival. But there is a distinction to be made between the "conscious" and "subconscious" part of the mind.
  • The "subconscious" part is largely responsible for the strong negative emotions
  • The "conscious" part is largely responsible for the decision to commit suicide
These two "categories" of the human mind often conflict with each other. They are also a simplification. The assumption that the "conscious" part is responsible for rational decision making, and the "subconscious" is emotional/irrational... is just an assumption and simplification itself. It holds true probably in most cases. But suicide is one of those extreme cases that is explained by other means. Intense emotions undermine the ability to consciously make rational decisions.

My main point was... there is reason to believe that "suicide" could be connected with selfishness, because selfishness is an egocentric attitude, one often driven by negative emotions. But I've heard of suicide being committed for various reasons, such as people thinking that others will be better off without them alive... which is a less egocentric attitude. Some do it for their religion. Some do it because they're dying of cancer anyway have no family left, and want to cut to the chase.

With exceptions aside, it's such an extreme act that most people committing it will experience immeasurable internal conflict, with lots of things going on in their head... and most often it's a product of a somewhat abusive environment, or a product of other people's neglect (people who may be just as selfish/egocentric).

A person adapts to their environment, and if it's an environment with egocentric/selfish people, they'll adapt to match that. It doesn't always work though. Some people adapt wrong and commit suicide, some develop personality disorders (borderline personality disorder is strongly connected with suicidal tendencies), some don't adapt at all. These deviations often explain why people behave contrary to their own interests (like committing suicide, self-destructive behaviors, feeling attracted abusive partners). Nature isn't perfect. Shit happens (which is harsh to say, but true). Cancer also happens. It happens naturally, but cases of it have also increased to due our modern living standards (much like suicide I think).

It's my opinion, that because a hostile environment is often the cause, usually the best thing that can be done for such a person, is to take them out of such an environment entirely and help them find their footing elsewhere. This is idealistic, and also depends on just how severe the condition is. Sometimes it's deeply rooted in abuse during early childhood, in which case this gets multiple times harder to straighten out. And for some people, simply "removing" them from their environment might not make things any better either, because some people need consistency
(which can be associated with other personality disorders).

Just because a person is a failure in one environment, doesn't mean they will be a failure in a different environment. Every person has different tolerances to different things... and people generally are not "designed" (or haven't "evolved") to live as fully functional human beings in today's societies (which are very different from a natural habitat). People have adapted to cope with this modern way of living, but that's not the same as being evolved to cope with it. It puts a strain on our nature, and some people are more likely to break under it than others. I have an analogy for this. To me, it's like trying to run an old program designed for Windows XP, on Windows 10 instead. The "program" could be compared to the individual person, "Windows XP" to our natural environment, and "Windows 10" to today's environment/society. Some programs which were designed for Windows XP might work on Windows 10, but most will not, or will crash and constantly produce errors / behave erratically and unpredictably. It could be something like NFS Carbon (great game) that was designed for Windows XP, but it just won't run on newer systems. So a person's failure to adapt to our modern environment, doesn't mean at all that they're somehow "bad" (just like NFS Carbon isn't "bad"). I think it's more because they're in the wrong environment for them, and I think they experience somewhat similar problems as most other people do at some point, but to a much more severe extent because of it.

As for suicide being wrong: of course it's wrong. I'm generally a literal person, so I interpret this literally. Suicide shouldn't happen. It is a malfunction of nature (like cancer cells), so it's wrong. If you where implying to ask if it's "amoral" instead... then I've sort of answered that already above (on the assumption that something being "amoral" is related to a person's egocentric or altruistic tendencies). To answer that fully, I'd basically have to re-word everything I've said above.

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Last edited by BDF; December 5th 2016 at 04:14 PM.
   
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Re: Do you think...? - December 17th 2016, 08:31 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kate* View Post

Glad to hear it, we sometimes get vague posts that make me wonder if the person is thinking about it and doesn't want to say so.
Thanks for checking in.

I'm all good!


   
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