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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
Jess~ Offline
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not sure how I feel about this sexual assault article - October 13th 2017, 07:25 AM

This thread has been labeled as triggering, particularly on the subject of rape or abuse, by the original poster or by a Moderator. The contents of this thread might therefore not be suitable for certain sensitive users. Please take this into consideration before continuing to read.

7 Things That Can Be Rape

kind of just want to see what other victims and people on here think of this article, or if i'm the only one who feels really uncomfortable from it.

there was a video that was mildly popular awhile back, about a girl describing the different ways she was "raped" on a daily basis. these "rapes" included strangers on the bus looking at her legs or her dad hitting her mom. the video was pretty much a laughing stock as far as youtubers reacting to it went. luckily, a lot of them did say how disrespectful that video was to actual rape victims, and how it's crap like that that is only helping to delegitimize us completely.
but that was something that was obviously not rape. yes, those are uncomfortable situations. but to take the trauma of rape and apply it to a stranger checking you out is like taking a war veteran with a missing limb and comparing his or her pain to your papercut.

this article, however, is a tricky one because the instances of possible "rape" do involved actual sexual acts. so at least that's there.
however, some of the things that i'm pretty uncomfortable and iffy on are these...
-if you ask your partner to switch positions and they refuse
-if your partner forces you to deepthroat them
-if your partner tries to engage in a specific sexual act after you've asked them not to

like yeah, those are really crappy situations, and i'm sure that would suck. but i can also see the sides of it where it's not such a malicious thing. for example, the "if your partner tries to engage in a specific sexual act after you asked them not to" goes on to explain, in the article, that this applies even if that specific sexual act is one you normally enjoy. so i could see some man getting the bright idea that maybe he has to cheer up his partner by doing that thing she really likes all the time, even though she "thinks" she doesn't want it. maybe he just has to get her warmed up to it and "surprise" her. do you see kind of what i'm getting at? like yeah, that's still completely shitty. but i've known a lot of stupid people, and i have no doubt that this type of thought process would cross the mind of someone on earth.
as for the deepthroat, i know that's an extremely awful position to be in. i hate guys who think they have the right to push my head down. however, all guys who have done that to me (except my rapist) have also immediately let go of my head once i started to resist. again, there are instances where i can see a guy thinking it's "hot" or okay to do it, because maybe there's some sort of dom-sub situation with them.

even without those few scenarios i can think of, these just don't really strike me as acts of rape..? i'm not denying at all that these are extremely disrespectful and mean-spirited things to do to a sexual partner. but to call them straight up rape is just... i don't know.

even the author of this article goes on to explain, "Additionally, I would never compare what I experienced to a violent rape." but she IS comparing it to a violent rape, because every fucking rape is violent. rape itself is an act of violence. and by calling her experiences rape as well, i personally feel as though she is undermining the meaning of the word rape.
rape victims are delegitimized much more than enough as it is. with false accusations getting more air time than actual rape cases with undeniable proof, people are already tainting the images of real rape victims.
i just feel like, if we were to call these things rape, the word would lose it's gravity. you know? like right now, if you say "rape" in a college classroom, chances are the chatter will die down and a tone of seriousness and tension will set across the classroom. (i say college because i feel like even high schoolers would still think it's cool and "edgy" to joke and snicker about rape.) but if rape were to mean anything uncomfortable during a sexual act, i feel like when the word rape was said, there would be an unspoken question in people's minds of, "well yeah, but was it like rape-rape or just sort of rape?"

what do you think?


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Re: not sure how I feel about this sexual assault article - October 14th 2017, 10:11 PM

I'll go through the points in the article one by one:
  1. If you ask your partner to switch positions and they refuse - I'm of two minds about this one. I won't go into details why because it requires too many graphic descriptions, which isn't my thing. The context she describes is painful, so it really fits under the second point (not this one). Imagine a dentist doing something to your teeth, you feel disproportionate pain, signal him to stop, and he doesn't. That gives you grounds to sue the dentist (if you can prove what happened).
  2. If you tell your partner they're hurting you, but they ignore you and keep going - absolutely
  3. If your partner forces you to deepthroat them - absolutely
  4. If your partner keeps asking for sex after you refuse, until you finally say yes - no. There are other ways to tell them to f off. You can even dump them for being pathetic.
  5. If your partner continues having sex with you after you've changed your mind about having sex - no. Because your partner can't read your mind. If you want them to stop, you need to say so, or signal it somehow. I know this is explained better in the description, but the heading implies something very different. Simply changing your mind isn't enough if you tell no one about it.
  6. If someone tries to have sex with you when you're incapable of giving consent - absolutely. If you're drunk and passed out, or lying unconscious in a hospital, and someone tries to have sex with you... this is well established by now to be rape. This is not disputable anymore. Although people should avoid getting drunk to the extent where they haven't the faintest idea wtf is going on around them, this is a separate act from the act of rape. Being pissed drunk isn't illegal in any civilized country. Rape is illegal. But, accusations of rape under the influence of alcohol while conscious have been used carelessly on a few occasions already. It's safe to assume in such a situation that both people are usually drunk. You should not get to accuse the other person of rape simply because you were drunk when it happened, and needed a scapegoat when your parents inquired about your pregnancy. Drown in sulphuric lava.
  7. If your partner tries to engage in a specific sexual act after you've asked them not to - yes, I suppose.

P.S. I consider the use of the word "tries" in this article as rhetorical rather than literal. An attempt to rape someone is not quite the same as actually doing it. An attempt to do something is more subjective than the act of actually carrying it out. It is more questionable in a court. It is not as black & white.

That's why there are often different penalties for "attempted murder" and actual "murder".

.


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Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.



Last edited by BDF; October 14th 2017 at 10:49 PM.
   
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Re: not sure how I feel about this sexual assault article - October 15th 2017, 02:13 AM

I'll go down the list too and put my input in it.

Quote:
If You Ask Your Partner To Switch Positions And They Refuse
This is debatable. If you just want to switch positions and it's not causing you pain or discomfort I feel it can't be rape? But in the article it's stated that she experienced pain in which he ignored so I think that can be considered rape because he didn't listen to her.
Quote:
If You Tell Your Partner They're Hurting You, But They Ignore You And Keep Going
Like said above, if they're hurting you and you say to stop, then it's you removing consent and if they don't stop then that's rape.
Quote:
If Your Partner Forces You To Deepthroat Them
I've had this happen to me, and while it can seem rapey, I feel most people would agree that it's not technically rape. Unless you specifically say before sex or even during sex that you don't want that to happen, then yeah that's rape but like if it just happens it's just violated I guess.
Quote:
If Your Partner Keeps Asking For Sex After You Refuse, Until You Finally Say Yes
Yes This is coercion and is definitely rape even if it's not seen legally.
Quote:
If Your Partner Continues Having Sex With You After You've Changed Your Mind About Having Sex
Something the previous poster said I don't agree with is that the title implies that it's kept in the mind but it's not. When someone changes their mind about sex during sex then it's obviously stated. That's how changing your mind in sex happens. I've never spoken to anyone who has changed their mind during sex and not said anything. In this case, yes it is rape if they keep going after you change your mind.
Quote:
If Someone Tries To Have Sex With You When You're Incapable Of Giving Consent
Yes, both legally and in general. Consent is important in sex and if one or both parties can't consent then it's rape.
Quote:
If Your Partner Tries To Engage In A Specific Sexual Act After You've Asked Them Not To
This one I'm also divided on because it kind of ties into the first one I feel. On one side if they try to and don't stop, then yes it is. On the other hand, if they do stop even though they already started and you're uncomfortable then it's just a weird situation. In the article it says they do it anyways and yeah that's a violation of your consent agreements so it can be considered rape I guess.

There's a lot of like fine lines and on whether something is rape or not. Also, OP you mentioned dom-sub situations and that's even more extensive with consent because there's so much that goes into that that can be iffy. In those sorts of situations, there's a clear explicit agreement that has to be abide by or else it's clearly violation or rape. Most people in the BDSM community are really aware of the importance of consent. Because things in regular sex can be really iffy, it's typically hard to say that something is clearly rape. And I agree that using the term rape for any violation is wrong, which is why I prefer the term sexual assault for iffy things that might not seem like it's rape.


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Re: not sure how I feel about this sexual assault article - October 15th 2017, 02:58 AM

I think most of these count. I want to point out that a person doesn't have to be in pain to ask to change positions. The person could be experiencing discomfort or, even, be bored or not getting anything out of that position. If they ask to switch and the person refuses AND continues having sex with them...then it is rape. If the person doesn't want to switch positions they could communicate that and STOP having sex with the person. This has happened with me once or twice in my current relationship. We'd be in a certain position and I would be uncomfortable. I would ask him if we could switch. Most instances we would switch but there were a few times when my boyfriend didn't feel comfortable with the position and so we decided that we would try again at a later date. It isn't something that has happened often but it really isn't that hard to switch positions mid-sex. In some instances it can actually be done in a way that it can be really enjoyable.

As for the deep throat one, the key word is force. They are forcing someone to partake in a sexual activity that they do not want to.


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