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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
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Obama's vist to Notre Dame - May 26th 2009, 05:49 AM

This happened last week Obama went to Notre Dame a Catholic university to give a speech. Obama opposes most of the Christian views.
I just want to know what you think of this.?
Are people making it more of a deal?
In my opinion
He should not have gone his record on abortion and stem cell research opposes church teachings. I don't think it is appropriate for him to be commencement speaker at any Catholic university.

That's just my opinion.

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Re: Obama's vist to Notre Dame - May 26th 2009, 05:53 AM

I think that having different beliefs shouldn't mean never being able to speak to each other. Unless he's going there with the intention of advocating for abortion and stem cell research (which would be just looking for trouble) I don't see a problem.


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Re: Obama's vist to Notre Dame - May 26th 2009, 05:59 AM

I don't know that I oppose him being there - he's an icon to a lot of American people (not myself, but that's not the point) and can be considered a perfect candidate to speak at a commencement.
However, I don't believe he should have gotten an honorary degree. Being Catholic myself, I'm a little angry that they would give him such an honor when he does go against many of the views of the Church.


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Re: Obama's vist to Notre Dame - May 26th 2009, 06:52 AM

You are right Emily... Whether or not Obama spoke at Notre Dame is a side issue. If it was simply a matter of a speech then there would be at least a case for defending it on the basis of pemitting debate.
The real scandal is that a Catholic university is offering an honourary degree to a president whose words and actions on the issue of abortion are so utterly contrary to Catholic moral teaching.


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Re: Obama's vist to Notre Dame - May 26th 2009, 07:50 AM

I was listening to an interview with a student, and he made an interesting point. Notre Dame is a place of education, and education sometimes means confronting ideas you may not agree with. By inviting someone to the university who holds some views that are not in line with Catholic teaching, the university has made a 'brave step', as he calls it, towards engaging some of those ideas.

What do others think of this?


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Last edited by Grizabella; May 26th 2009 at 08:26 AM.
   
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Re: Obama's vist to Notre Dame - May 26th 2009, 08:04 AM

I think Notre Dame has to realize it's all his personal views. There's nothing anybody can do about it. I'm not far from there (okay maybe an hour and a half away) I'm an Obama supporter but I'm also into prolife. He's not pushing his beliefs on anybody and that's fine with me as long as he's not pushing his beliefs on people.


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Re: Obama's vist to Notre Dame - May 26th 2009, 02:55 PM

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Originally Posted by irish_eyes View Post
I think Notre Dame has to realize it's all his personal views.
I think this is exactly where people get caught up! They're not his personal views on the issue, they're his policy views. Obama himself might be 100% against abortion and stem cell research, but has the clarity of mind to realize that we live in a secular society.

As for the honourary degree:
Notre Dame teaches CLASSES that are in direct contradiction with the Catholic Church.

Quote:
BIOS 10101. Human Genetics, Evolution, and Society
(3-0-3) This course will address fundamental biological principles using the two cornerstones of modern biology: genetics and evolution. Elementary chemistry, cell theory, reproduction, and development will also be covered. The emphasis, however, will be on human genetics and will include such topics as the cause and effects of genetic abnormalities, the genetic basis of intelligence and skin color, genes and cancer, and elementary population genetics. The state of "genetic engineering" research, the recombinant DNA controversy (including the implications of this kind of research on society and the individual) will be presented. Fall and spring.
http://science.nd.edu/academic/biology_courses.htm


That's taken directly from the Notre Dame course catalogue. Last time I checked (at http://www.catholic.com/library/Adam..._Evolution.asp ten seconds ago), the Catholic chuch does not believe in spontaneous, single-celled life from the primordial slime, which is a basic tenent of the theory of evolution.



It's a bit hypocritical, don't you think, that Notre Dame teaches things contrary to strict Catholic belief and then raises a fuss over Obama's honourary degree?


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Re: Obama's vist to Notre Dame - May 26th 2009, 06:00 PM

YOU HAVE BLOOD ON YOUR HANDS
STOP KILLING OUR CHILDREN
YOU HAVE BLOOOOOD ON YOUOOORRR HANNNDDSSS

I think that guy was pretty interesting! And he certainly had a lot to say.


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Re: Obama's vist to Notre Dame - May 26th 2009, 11:11 PM

It's on FoxNews which blows anything with Obama kind of out of the water in a bad way. That's my opinion personally.

I think he was fine to do that. It's not like, "You can speak here but pretend you're Christian for a while".



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Re: Obama's vist to Notre Dame - May 27th 2009, 09:14 PM

If you look at the other aspects of Catholic social teaching and not just those two issues, Obama does a good job. He did community organizing for a bunch of Catholic churches in Chicago, and worked against the poverty in the area. He's working for welfare and affordable, quality health care for everyone, which is something the US Catholic Bishops have supported and recognized as a human right. He opposed the invasion in Iraq, which the Catholic Church did as well. Yes, he and the church differ in opinions when it comes to abortion and stem-cell research, but those aren't the only things that matter, right?

Also, the official Catholic viewpoint on voting is not just "Vote for whoever is pro-life." I learned in my Catholic Social Teaching class this year that the Vatican and the bishops think that people should examine ALL of the issues, not just one, and make an educated, informed choice based on who is best all around.

Additionally, I think that it's a good idea that they invited him to speak. It would be plainly stupid of them to just block out other opinions completely- what would that do for their cause? They needed to show that they're willing to at least discuss things maturely. Unfortunately, some of the protestors were not okay with that, but the administration tried, and Obama was glad to do the same. Communication is a good thing.


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Re: Obama's vist to Notre Dame - May 27th 2009, 10:34 PM

The focus should be on the graduates and what they've accomplished - it shouldn't be about people who aren't graduating trying to hijack their special day in order to promote their own causes.


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If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life
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Re: Obama's vist to Notre Dame - May 27th 2009, 10:40 PM

I think that the protests were a distraction and were completely unnecsarry. Obviously everyone is typically going to have differing views, and they should be voiced, but in a proper way. The protests took away from the achievments of the graduates imo.
   
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Re: Obama's vist to Notre Dame - May 27th 2009, 11:37 PM

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Originally Posted by abrocks22 View Post
I think that the protests were a distraction and were completely unnecsarry. Obviously everyone is typically going to have differing views, and they should be voiced, but in a proper way. The protests took away from the achievments of the graduates imo.
One of the best ways to voice your opinion is through a protest (non-violent and civil, of course).

I don't think there should have been protests during the actual commencement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elf View Post
If you look at the other aspects of Catholic social teaching and not just those two issues, Obama does a good job. He did community organizing for a bunch of Catholic churches in Chicago, and worked against the poverty in the area. He's working for welfare and affordable, quality health care for everyone, which is something the US Catholic Bishops have supported and recognized as a human right. He opposed the invasion in Iraq, which the Catholic Church did as well. Yes, he and the church differ in opinions when it comes to abortion and stem-cell research, but those aren't the only things that matter, right?

Also, the official Catholic viewpoint on voting is not just "Vote for whoever is pro-life." I learned in my Catholic Social Teaching class this year that the Vatican and the bishops think that people should examine ALL of the issues, not just one, and make an educated, informed choice based on who is best all around.

Additionally, I think that it's a good idea that they invited him to speak. It would be plainly stupid of them to just block out other opinions completely- what would that do for their cause? They needed to show that they're willing to at least discuss things maturely. Unfortunately, some of the protestors were not okay with that, but the administration tried, and Obama was glad to do the same. Communication is a good thing.
An informed decision, yes, but the Catholic Church strongly believes that Catholics should not go against the church's teachings.

As a Catholic, it is great that Obama visited Notre Dame and spoke. I have nothing against that. However, I do not agree that he should have received an honorary degree. I don't think it is really an issue of Obama speaking at Notre Dame, but that he received an honoary degree which irks many Catholics.


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Re: Obama's vist to Notre Dame - May 28th 2009, 12:18 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mexico View Post
[b][color=black] Obama opposes most of the Christian views.
That's painfully inaccurate.

He opposes many CATHOLIC views, perhaps, but that does not make him an automatic non-Christian. Besides, most Christian ideas are universal, or at least highly common (such as charity and the most logical of God's commandments).

Furthermore, bestowing an honorary degree upon the President is not going to end the world. For those who say that he hasn't accomplished enough yet, take a good look at some other people who have been given honorary degrees.


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Re: Obama's vist to Notre Dame - June 3rd 2009, 06:24 AM

Question...
Why on earth were the issues of stem cell research and abortion brought up during a commencement address? It has nothing to do with the students or their achievements.
It seems to me that he had an agenda in making that speech, rather than just congratulating the graduating class and giving them inspiring words for their future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arbiter View Post
That's painfully inaccurate.

He opposes many CATHOLIC views, perhaps, but that does not make him an automatic non-Christian. Besides, most Christian ideas are universal, or at least highly common (such as charity and the most logical of God's commandments).

Furthermore, bestowing an honorary degree upon the President is not going to end the world. For those who say that he hasn't accomplished enough yet, take a good look at some other people who have been given honorary degrees.
Clarification: Catholic views ARE still Christian views, even if other Christian denominations disagree with some Catholic Christian viewpoints.


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Last edited by TakeTheLeap; June 3rd 2009 at 06:25 AM. Reason: Multiple posts have been merged automatically.
   
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Re: Obama's vist to Notre Dame - June 3rd 2009, 06:44 AM

Quote:
Why on earth were the issues of stem cell research and abortion brought up during a commencement address?
Were they brought up during the commencement address? I thought the controversy was that he supported abortion and stem-cell research and was invited to speak at the school, not that he had brought up the topics during the address. Admittedly, if that's the case, it was very tacky. But if he didn't mention it, and just made the typical congratulations speach, then it's horrible of the Catholics who aren't graduating to try to turn the focus away from the graduates and onto their own causes.


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Re: Obama's vist to Notre Dame - June 3rd 2009, 03:56 PM

http://commencement.nd.edu/commencem...ement-address/

He mentioned it because of the controversy, and elaborated on it a good bit. It seems as though he's trying to explain himself, but definitely at the wrong time.


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