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Prove me wrong - June 2nd 2009, 09:36 PM

Love does not exist.
Without bringing in religion to the debate, prove The above statement wrong.
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Re: Prove me wrong - June 2nd 2009, 10:40 PM

It's just a deep attraction to someone that has been romanticized by literature/movies/people since forever. I think people can be deeply attracted to one another (physically and mentally) - therefore love each other. Of course, I know it's all basic instincts, but I would consider it love.
   
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Re: Prove me wrong - June 2nd 2009, 10:47 PM

You're right about it being basic instinct.
However, it is emotion people feel, not love.
Love is just a word attached to a certain emotion.
People attach words to emotions to give more meaning to the words.
It's like Putting two bowls of jello on a table for people, and labeling one "Rock" and one "Ice". You can label them anything you want, but in the end, it's just jello.
You can attach words to emotions, but in the end, that's all they are: emotions.
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Re: Prove me wrong - June 2nd 2009, 10:51 PM

So, love is the word attatched to a certain emotion, you seem to concede that the emotion itself does exist. Love still exists no matter what you choose to call it, just as no matter whether you call jelly "rock" or "ice" it remains jelly.

The emotion IS love, and just because people must resort to paltry words to describe it does not make it any less real or relevant.

There have been several psychological studies on "love" and very few have come to the conclusion that it does not exist.
   
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Re: Prove me wrong - June 2nd 2009, 10:59 PM

If love exists, why do so many relationships end up dragging on miserably or end abruptly?

Infatuation exists. Long-Term Infatuation exists. But I have yet to see any proof of love in this world.
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Re: Prove me wrong - June 2nd 2009, 11:02 PM

The relationships end because love ends or grows stale, or the people were never truly in love. Nobody says people can't "fall out of love" as the saying goes.

If you want a type of proof for love just look at the animal kingdom, specifcally swans. They most generally mate for life.

What you call "long term infatuation" others call love, it all depends on how you define it. You might find Helen E. Fisher's research interesting.

Last edited by Jack; June 2nd 2009 at 11:08 PM.
   
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Re: Prove me wrong - June 2nd 2009, 11:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack View Post
The relationships end because love ends or grows stale, or the people were never truly in love. Nobody says people can't "fall out of love" as the saying goes.
"Love growing stale" is another term for Long term infatuation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack View Post
If you want a type of proof for love just look at the animal kingdom, specifcally swans. They most generally mate for life.
Animals have instincts. I'm not saying they don't feel emotions, but nobody has solid proof that they do.
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Re: Prove me wrong - June 2nd 2009, 11:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Popo View Post
You're right about it being basic instinct.
However, it is emotion people feel, not love.
Love is just a word attached to a certain emotion.
People attach words to emotions to give more meaning to the words.
It's like Putting two bowls of jello on a table for people, and labeling one "Rock" and one "Ice". You can label them anything you want, but in the end, it's just jello.
You can attach words to emotions, but in the end, that's all they are: emotions.
Yes....love is just a deep attraction for someone that continues...what's the problem? Isn't it just semantics and people should be allowed to call it whatever they want?
   
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Re: Prove me wrong - June 2nd 2009, 11:28 PM

People do build relationships, trust, and caring with other people. We call this love. A relationship with trust, caring, and attraction is also called love. It exists. It's a weird combination of emotions, but it does exist.


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Re: Prove me wrong - June 3rd 2009, 12:14 AM

Yes, love exists. There is some reaction in the brain that causes you to pine for someone. And it's something we all feel one day. But I also understand that it is merely a result of my evolution.

Let me tell you something and this is the honest to Gods truth. When you say these words :"I Love you", you best be ready to jump in the fire to save your loved one even if it means losing your own life in the process.
That is true love.


Love exists. The problem is that people confuse this with passion. Passion is unstable, and changes over time, and often will completely disappear. Another danger is that passion will turn into obsession.


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Re: Prove me wrong - June 3rd 2009, 01:43 AM

Quote:
If love exists, why do so many relationships end up dragging on miserably or end abruptly?
I would say that people often mistake intense infatuations with love. To me, falling in love means you're in love - if you fall out of love suddenly, it's probably an indication that your partner was either very good at hiding their true self, or that you weren't really in love to begin with.


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"Live a good life.
If there are gods and they are just,
then they will not care how devout you have been,
but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by.
If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them.
If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life
that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."
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Re: Prove me wrong - June 3rd 2009, 02:33 AM

You're thinking of "romance" romance is kissing and hugging and mind-blowing sex, love is what's there after that initial burning lust and romance has faded, love is two people sitting in a room knowing that the rest of their life will be ok as long as they have each-other.
Over-exaggerated romance and lust creates expectations of what love is and stops you from recognizing real love when you see it.
Some people never find what they think of as love because they are looking for something from movies that doesn't exist.


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Imagine that a baby gosling was placed inside one of those big glass bottles with a little opening that you see model ships in, and raised inside, until it is fully grown and can no longer fit out through the neck of the bottle. How can you get the goose out of the bottle? Without hurting/killing the goose.

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Re: Prove me wrong - June 3rd 2009, 01:48 PM

Love is holding someone else's safety, happiness and over-all well-being before your own. No matter who that person is, and whether its your child, partner, friend, or a stranger.
   
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Re: Prove me wrong - June 3rd 2009, 03:11 PM

Love does not just exists between romantic partners ...
What about the love of parents for their children? Te love between parents and children develops over time and gets stronger. And yes sometimes there may be breakdowns in a parent-child relationship, but most often this can be resolved as it is unconditional love. We don't love our parents or children for what they look like, or what interests they have, we just love them, unconditionally.


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Re: Prove me wrong - June 3rd 2009, 03:16 PM

I think most people on here are just taking love for their partner into account. What about the love between a parent and child? That exists forever providing the child or parent doesn't do something unforgivable and even then some people are still able to love them. What about the love between siblings? Or the love between an owner and its pet?


   
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Re: Prove me wrong - June 4th 2009, 05:34 AM

Love is definitely an existing human emotion, and one of the most important ones (that a human being cannot be complete without) according to old Abe Maslow; he listed it in his Hierarchy of Human Needs.
   
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Re: Prove me wrong - June 4th 2009, 07:47 AM

If you don't believe love exists, obviously you've never been in love so really, how can you say such things if you've never experienced them first hand?


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Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumoured by many.
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Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.
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But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."

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Re: Prove me wrong - June 4th 2009, 08:43 AM

By saying "love is just a word attached to a certain emotion" aren't you yourself admitting its real? Yeah, Its a word attached to a certain emotion, meaning love is in fact real.

Thats like saying my computer isn't real because, computer is just a word attached to a certain object. Its the same thing, obviously my computer is real, just like love is.


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Re: Prove me wrong - June 5th 2009, 03:55 PM

define the type of love you want to be discussed?

Love in terms of romance is apparently partially only a social construct, we only acknowledge it because we know of it, in cultures without the ideology, its not really something people identify with, but maybe that more about having words to describe how you feel.

Regardless, social constructs still exist and are real, so even if love was socially constructed, it doesn't mean people don't experience it.

I fell in love with my ex gf. I was willing to give her my everything, even risked damnation in the burning fires of hell, because without her, life was... nothng but a dull sty

Even now that we've been apart for the bigger part of 3 years, we still love each other, even if we can't be together. Love is a bond. When people just fit together and connect, the feeling that develops is stronger then just liking, and its more real then infactuation, and tends to die harder. Love doesn't have to be stable, infact, I think most people in love experience instability in relation to their love, but that's often out of defense mechanism... people are scared to let themselves fall into that situation. They are scared of getting hurt.

I think passion is actually also part of love. Love is most definately more then just passion. Passion can exist in lust and infactuation. But passion I think seperates platonic love from romantic love. I think the intensity of romantic love facilliatates passion in a way that doesn't occur platonically. By passion, I don't just mean sexual passion, but enthuasism, intensity, commitment. Sexual behaviour can be used as an outward expression of love, due to the initmacy shared in such an act. But also levels of personal disclosure, trust, interdependance, comfort, support, companionship, etc, make non-sexual interactions in love more intimate.
   
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Re: Prove me wrong - June 5th 2009, 05:07 PM

What is the point you're trying to get at? What's the point of this thread?


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Re: Prove me wrong - June 5th 2009, 05:30 PM

Wow, talk about a person who just went through a terrible breakup.


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Re: Prove me wrong - June 5th 2009, 05:38 PM

love is what drives us to do some of the crazy things that we do
it brings out the best in a person
it unites those who are bound for life together
it brings purpose to those who have very little to believe in
it does so many things for the ones who except it into their lives


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Re: Prove me wrong - June 5th 2009, 08:23 PM

It's nearly impossible to prove any sort of emotion. Emotions aren't meant to be proven.

Since you clearly don't want religion to be in this, this being in the religion forum does it no help. I'll move it to debates.


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Re: Prove me wrong - June 5th 2009, 08:25 PM

You can't prove love. At all. Nor can you prove happiness, sadness, depression, anything.

Plus, if you could prove it, it'd make it way too easy to actually have a relationship. Haha.



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Re: Prove me wrong - June 5th 2009, 08:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi_ImJordan View Post
Love is definitely an existing human emotion, and one of the most important ones (that a human being cannot be complete without) according to old Abe Maslow; he listed it in his Hierarchy of Human Needs.
I agree that love exists, but Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs is a pretty outdated concept. A person can be cold, hungry, and tired and still feel loved. Maslow basically said that this is impossible. Besides, just because a psychologist said it doesn't make it true.


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Re: Prove me wrong - June 5th 2009, 09:04 PM

I think the main proof of love is the way that it is utterly undefinable.




fait
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it is real and as sure as the first evening star
can't touch it, or buy it, or lock it up tight
but its there just the same
making things turn out right



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Re: Prove me wrong - June 6th 2009, 08:04 AM

Love exists. How, do you ask? Love is not what we typically think of "love". What we typically think of love is actually possession. Love is what occurs when we have lost the desire to posses and therefore have stopped comparing ourselves to others because without possession, which includes the self as an object and ideas as objects as well as things we typically desire to posses, especially boyfriends, girlfriends, and spouses, there is love. Am I saying you should not get a boyfriend or girlfriend? No. I never said that. I'm simply saying that love is indiscriminate, that it occurs once we have removed our attachments to our self, and this is possible through deep self-understanding and awareness.

Of course, I'm just echoing what I've read in various Buddhist texts and On Love and Loneliness by Jiddu Krishnamurti. I think you would find it very interesting, given that you have already realized that what we typically describe as love isn't love. Relationships, loving relationships, are struggles for power.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorelei View Post
I agree that love exists, but Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs is a pretty outdated concept. A person can be cold, hungry, and tired and still feel loved. Maslow basically said that this is impossible. Besides, just because a psychologist said it doesn't make it true.
I think this is a misunderstanding of Maslow's intention. Yes, you can be cold, hungry, tired and still feel loved, but if you are freezing to death or starving to death, you are going to seek heat and warmth before you seek love or self-efficacy.



   
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