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Why are people gay? - October 8th 2009, 08:21 AM

As a forward, no, I am not gay or some other off gender type. I just want to know why people just "become" gay. It obviously is not a natural thing, as nature always pushes procreation, so do we have any evidence to support it is natural instead of some mixed perception, such as a mental illness?
   
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Re: Why are people gay? - October 8th 2009, 08:31 AM

There are theories to say the being gay could push procreation. For example, if there was a recessive gene for homosexuality (which has not been proved) a carrier of that gene - ie one, not two, meaning they wouldn't be homosexual - may be more attractive to the opposite sex which would encourage procreation ...
I personally think it's incredibly offensive to suggest that it is caused by mental illness. Being gay is not something you can cure, which has been proved many times.


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Re: Why are people gay? - October 8th 2009, 08:38 AM

But what about the people who are able to counsel gays and help them become straight again?


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Re: Why are people gay? - October 8th 2009, 08:50 AM

It doesn't actually last ... that's why in most "Western" countries you can't get counselling through any health system to 'cure' homosexuality.
I say "Western" as in Europe, America etc. There are countries where homosexuality is still so unacceptable that they do offer treatments. Some religious groups in the "Western" world do offer to cure homosexuality, but again, it doesn't last.


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Re: Why are people gay? - October 8th 2009, 09:08 AM

I wouldn't say people can 'cure' homosexuals, they are just repressing their feelings. Biologically, we are built for reproduction, but as for personality, and feelings, it's perfectly natural to be attracted to someone of the same sex as yourself.
Being gay is not an illness, it's an attraction, and attraction is one of the most natural things on the planet. There has been research into a 'gay gene' which I find ludicrous as sexuality is not genetic, nor is sexuality a mental illness.


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Re: Why are people gay? - October 8th 2009, 09:50 AM

I have a question too: Why are people straight?

Sounds ridiculous the other way round, doesn't it? So do these questions

Quote:
1. What do you think caused your heterosexuality?

2. When and how did you decide that you were a heterosexual?

3. Is it possible that your heterosexuality is just a phase that you may outgrow?

4. Is it possible that your heterosexuality stems from a neurotic fear of others of the same sex?

5. If you have never slept with a person of the gay sex, is it possible that all you need is a good gay lover?

6. Do your parents know that you are straight? Do your friends and/or housemates know? And how did they react?

7. Why do you insist on flaunting your heterosexuality? Can't you just be who you are and stop flaunting it?

8. Why do heterosexuals place so much emphasis on sex?

9. Why do heterosexuals feel so compelled to seduce others into their lifestyle?

10. A disproportionate majority of child molesters are heterosexual (This is true! 95% of all child molesters are heterosexual.) Do you consider it safe to expose your children to heterosexual teachers?

11. Just what do men and women do in bed together? How can they know how to please each other being so anatomically different?

12. With all of the societal support marriage receives, the divorce rate is spiraling. Why are there so few stable relationships among heterosexuals?

13. Statistics show that lesbians have the lowest rate of sexually transmitted diseases. Is it really safe for women to maintain a heterosexual lifestyle, and run the risk of disease and pregnancy?

14. How can you become a whole person if you limit yourself to exclusive heterosexuality?

15. Considering the menace of overpopulation, how could the human race survive if everyone were heterosexual?

16. Could you trust a heterosexual therapist to be objective? Don't you feel that he/she might be inclined to influence you in the direction of his/her own leanings?

17. There seem to be very few happy heterosexuals. Techniques have been developed that might enable you to change if you really want to. Have you considered trying aversion therapy?

18. Would you want your children to be heterosexual, knowing the problems that he/she would have?
^ my friend posted these questions on another forum I'm a member of. It gets you thinking how stupid the questions really sound with them reversed.


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Re: Why are people gay? - October 8th 2009, 12:43 PM

To be honest, I don't question why anyone is the way they are because we should just be able to live our lives the way we want to live our lives. I will fight for what I love, because no one really has the right to tell me I can't love someone because they have whatever sex organ.

If I remember correctly, homosexuality was accused to be a mental illness before the 80s, and it was taken out of the DSM-II in 1974 and is no longer recognized as a mental illness.


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Re: Why are people gay? - October 8th 2009, 12:43 PM

Hey there.

People don't 'turn' homosexual, they are born homosexual. And yes, there are arguements against that, but honestly, if someone can be born hetrosexual, then surely they can be born homosexual. To some people, it may seem like one person is straight one minute, and the next minute they're coming out as gay, therefore they just 'turned' gay, but they actually always were. We just don't become aware of our sexuality until we're a certain age (and that age differs for everyone).

Calling it a mental illness is probably one of the most insulting things you could refer to homosexuality as. There's no ''illness'', it's attraction and it can't be helped. There's nothing wrong with it. It cannot be 'cured', and those offering cures are just too close-minded to accept that people are different. And plus, why should someone feel the need to become straight? If the situation was reversed, would you want to be counselled into becoming gay? Forced to fight off feelings that you cannot help?

People who call homosexuality a choice make no sense. Who would choose homosexuality, given all the things they have to put up with because of being gay? Such as being called mentally ill? Nobody would choose that. All they are doing is being true to themselves. Does somebody being gay affect the lives of others in any way? No, not in the slightest, therefore a person's sexuality is their business and their business alone.

So, to answer your question. Why are people gay? Well, why are people straight? It's just the way they are. There's nothing wrong with being gay, just as there's nothing wrong with being straight. And it most certainly not a ''mental illness''.
   
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Re: Why are people gay? - October 8th 2009, 01:23 PM

I think that, also, a lot of people I've come across (young teenagers, mostly), have thought they might be bisexual, and then they're like "wait...I don't feel like this anymore..." Because a LOT of people feel attraction to the same sex at some point in their lives or another. I know I did. I thought I might be bi for a LONG time but now I know that I'm straight because I've had time to think about it and my hormones are settling down in that department :P I think even if you are born with homosexuality, it can, for some, take a while to figure it out and understand that they are or are not gay.
   
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Re: Why are people gay? - October 8th 2009, 01:37 PM

I think it is actually quite offensive to suggest that a) "it obviously is not natural" and b) that to be homosexual is along the same lines as mental illness. You cannot cure gays; it is not a disease. I don't know why some people are attracted to the same sex, but I don't think we need to know why. Personally I think you are either born not sraight or your surroundings and experiences affect your sexuality. But it is not a disease or something that needs to be cured. I agree with the people who are posting questions on heterosexuality. Being gay is no different to being straight, you experience the same feelings etc. The only difference is the gender of the person you fancy / have a relationship with.
Okay, rant over, I just felt very offended. X .


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Re: Why are people gay? - October 8th 2009, 02:00 PM

The argument for it being natural or not is the easiest one for someone to bring up. Most animals are built to reproduce, biologically that is. But that doesn't take into account how somebody feels, or their emotions. People can't help who they're attracted to, and the questions Ceilidh posted are extremely good. I know as a heterosexual, I would have a hard time coming up with legitimate answers for a lot of them. So, why do we ask them of homosexuals? There's nothing wrong with it. I prefer people to love who they want, no matter what race, gender, anything. Life's too short to repress who you are.

Yes, I'm a straight guy who doesn't feel the need to make obscene gestures at two guys who are in love. What is wrong with people.
   
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Re: Why are people gay? - October 8th 2009, 04:37 PM

Biologically, I don't think it's natural. I mean, you can't reproduce. So biologically, it's not natural.
But other than that, what's wrong with it?
it's attraction, and attraction is natural. Nothing wrong with being gay.
If you like someone of the same sex, that's fine, your choice.
Saying it's a mental illness is one of the most insulting things you can say. EDIT: nobody wants to read what I just said.
It's not a mental illness, because there's nothing bad with it.
There is no 'cure' because there's nothing wrong with the first place.
   
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Re: Why are people gay? - October 8th 2009, 04:42 PM

Sometimes I wonder if homosexuality is a new, natural way, of our race controlling our population. Considering our race grows exponentially, maybe there's a scientific or god related reasoning that homosexuals came to be. It's a way that people can still attain love and live a fulfilled life but can still control our population count. o_O But as far as I'm concerned, homosexuality isn't a bad thing at all, and doesn't have to be understood to be accepted.



   
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Re: Why are people gay? - October 8th 2009, 04:47 PM

To anyone who says that homosexuality is biologically unnatural: do your research.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosex...ior_in_animals


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Re: Why are people gay? - October 8th 2009, 05:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadster View Post
But what about the people who are able to counsel gays and help them become straight again?
i also agree, it is quite offensive to link sexuality to a mental illness. anybody who counsels gays and tells them to be straight is NOT being proffessional and they should be reported. however, say if somebody went to a counselor and said "i'm gay but i don't want to be!" a counsellor or proffesional can't really help them change but they can help them realise it's fine to be gay and they will help them deal with there issues with themselves. trust me, i study health and social care and usualy proffesionals such as therapists cannot help someone become straight. i think (and correct me if i'm wrong) there are a few religions which don't agree with certain sexualities and they try help people change.

however i personally do not think it is right to try change someones sexuality and so what if it's not natural, we do millions of un-natural things every single minute of the day. i don't actualy like the term gay,straight or lesbian etc because i feel it labels someone into one thing. i believe EVERYBODY has the ability to fall or feel attracted to a girl and a guy. even animals have different sexualities kind of, there have been cases where two male birds build a nest and try mate. but as far as the comment goes about mental illness, i wouldn't say that, mental illnesses are far more different to sexuaility.
   
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Re: Why are people gay? - October 8th 2009, 05:35 PM

The population of the Human Race is huge and is increasing exponentially, and we're already running out of resources on the planet. Doesn't homosexuality allow for the feelings those who are heterosexual get for each-other whilst not pushing the population even further?
If it was unnatural or someway harmful, evolution would have eradicated it LONG ago, and it wouldn't be seen in the animal kingdom, but there have been cases of homosexual animals reported worldwide, in all species with sexual natures.
At the rate we're going, could homosexuality be the saviour of our species?
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Re: Why are people gay? - October 8th 2009, 06:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xujhan View Post
To anyone who says that homosexuality is biologically unnatural: do your research.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosex...ior_in_animals
^^ This.

Also, when has human sexual behaviour been all that natural? It's rarely for the sole purpose of reproduction. Using a condom, or being on the pill is more unnatural them homosexuality, at least you find gayness in animals. Then you have kissing, foreplay, oral sex, anal sex. These are all things straight people take part in too.

Human sexual behaviour is almost completely dissociated from reproduction.

Also, you forget about the social constructs of human sexuality.

Oh, and you can't really change your sexual orientation intentionally. If it happens, its incredibly rare.

As for what causes homosexuality, probably a variety of factors, partly nature, partly nurture, partly how we construct attraction and sexuality. There's some evidence there's a genetic link (by this, it is not a claim of a single gay gene, but the chance of a gene combination. Identical twins are more likely to both be gay, then non-identical twins. This is some evidence).

But essentially, what does it really matter? If it's effectively something out of your control, and you can live a healthy life regardless, and you can be happy, then so what if its completely genetic, or completely nurture.

Its not a mental illness, as highlighted by the APA, which is one of the biggest mental health organisations in the world. And it discourages repartive therapy.

You don't really just 'become gay', you just are.

Quote:
Biologically, I don't think it's natural. I mean, you can't reproduce. So biologically, it's not natural.
But other than that, what's wrong with it?
it's attraction, and attraction is natural. Nothing wrong with being gay.
If you like someone of the same sex, that's fine, your choice.
Saying it's a mental illness is one of the most insulting things you can say. EDIT: nobody wants to read what I just said.
It's not a mental illness, because there's nothing bad with it.
There is no 'cure' because there's nothing wrong with the first place.
You are assuming that reproduction is the only biologically natural part of human sexuality. Did you know, Dolphins also mate for simply pleasure sometimes... and young male dolphins have se with other young male dolphins?

I also think you are using natural incorrectly.

But the bolded part is what I need to comment most about. It's not a choice. If you like someone of the same sex, its your choice to act on it, sure, but not to have those feelings.
   
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Re: Why are people gay? - October 8th 2009, 06:58 PM

I'm not saying sex isn't perfectly possible or enjoyable ect. it's just that if nature had left us all as homosexual, we wouldn't have survived, as we wouldn't have had any way to reproduce.
dont get me wrong, I have nothing against gay people. They're great people!
But I'm just saying biologically, if the survival was left to homosexuals, we wouldn't be able to reproduce.
Emotionally, mentally etc, it's perfectly natural. just saying that biologically: ITS DEBATABLE.
   
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Re: Why are people gay? - October 8th 2009, 07:08 PM

Quote:
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I'm not saying sex isn't perfectly possible or enjoyable ect. it's just that if nature had left us all as homosexual, we wouldn't have survived, as we wouldn't have had any way to reproduce.
dont get me wrong, I have nothing against gay people. They're great people!
But I'm just saying biologically, if the survival was left to homosexuals, we wouldn't be able to reproduce.
Emotionally, mentally etc, it's perfectly natural. just saying that biologically: ITS DEBATABLE.
Not one person said we need the whole human race to be homosexual.

All they're saying is we need balance.
   
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Re: Why are people gay? - October 8th 2009, 07:24 PM

And we have reproduced to the point, along with our technologies, we are a threat to all other species on this planet. Thats not natural.

For homosexuality to be natural, everyone being gay is not required. Natural doesn't mean that. It's like people with fairer skin absorb more vitamin D from the sun then darker skinned people, but darker skinned people have more protection from the sun. Both fair skin and dark skin is natural. But they aren't the same.

Though to be fair, if all people were gay, now, in our modern world, its not like the species would die out. Hell, if the population got low enough, gay men and women could potentionally force themselves to do the nasty if they had to. (though its not needed).

I wasn't accusing you of not liking gay people, or being homophobic. You can be gay friendly without knowing everything there is to know
   
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Re: Why are people gay? - October 8th 2009, 07:26 PM

we have reproduced too much yeah.
I think we actually need homosexuals, to sort of balance it out.
So actually, yeah it is natural.
   
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Re: Why are people gay? - October 8th 2009, 07:51 PM

Youv'e got to be kidding me. Read this
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xujhan View Post
and you can judge whether it is unnatural.

and people shouldn't even be saying that if everyone was homosexual we would all die or we need a freaking balance. People just need to realize there is no issue with it at all and accept that it is natural and biological.


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Re: Why are people gay? - October 8th 2009, 09:04 PM

It's not really a choice. You don't 'become' gay or lesbian or trans or bi or anything. I just think you are. Like, how does one become strait? They don't, they just are.... Being all of those others is just like being strait.... plus how do you know that it's unnatural? There are animals in nature who get it on with members of the same sex.
   
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Re: Why are people gay? - October 9th 2009, 01:14 AM

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People who call homosexuality a choice make no sense. Who would choose homosexuality
Ok then if it some completely natural and perfectly fine thing why not choose it? Obviously it is a negative choice based on how you worded it.


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Re: Why are people gay? - October 9th 2009, 01:29 AM

Quote:
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Ok then if it some completely natural and perfectly fine thing why not choose it? Obviously it is a negative choice based on how you worded it.
No offence, but I think this has gone over your head. Its not a choice. The only choice is if you are going to lie to yourself. The negative effects come from society, treating it as a negative thing. I've been homophobed in the street, with bricks and beer cans being thrown at me, because some kids thought I was a gay men (I'm a lesbian), and its really not fun.
   
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Re: Why are people gay? - October 9th 2009, 03:04 AM

What I think the main problem is is the confusion between sex and love, which are closely connected. Sex, in one sense, is a way of pleasuring someone else. It can also be a way of establishing a powerful connection with another person. Sex is also the way humans are created. But does that mean that sex is the only aspect we can focus on? Not necessarily. Just because sexuality has the word 'sex' in it does not mean that it's all about sex. Perhaps we were biologically designed to reproduce with members of the opposite gender. But nothing in our biological make up decides that we're supposed to be attracted to and love a specific gender.
   
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Re: Why are people gay? - October 9th 2009, 04:22 AM

Oooookay. Here's the deal. Homosexuality is not a choice. A person can certainly choose to ACT in a homosexual way; just as a homosexual person can choose to ACT straight to avoid prejudice. But! A personal who is truly homosexual was born that way. It is not an illness, flaw, or whatever. It is a biological difference; no one can argue that. There has been significant research that proves physiological differences in the brains of gay and straight men, and there is also evidence homosexuality may have genetic links as well, proven by studies of twins. Do I understand why some girls like other girls? Shit no. Do they understand why I like guys? Unlikely. That doesn't make either of us wrong; just different. No hating!

P.S. How do I know this? I did my research. And have friends/relatives who are men and like men! Best people I know! I have straight friends and relatives as well, no one ever gives a damn about that...
   
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Re: Why are people gay? - October 9th 2009, 04:51 AM

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Originally Posted by Kadster View Post
do we have any evidence to support it is natural instead of some mixed perception, such as a mental illness?
Though there isn't anything that can conclusively prove the cause of homosexuality, there are some things that suggest it could be biological. Such as:

- The twin data show that identical twins have about 50% concordance for sexual preference in some studies, 30% in others. Fraternal twins have nearly half this concordance. So these data suggest that there is a modest effect of genetics. Other data, using a combination of molecular techniques and pedigrees, suggest that an X-linked gene or region influences sexual preference, but that finding has not been confirmed in all careful studies.

Fraternal birth order. The probability that a man has homosexual preference increases with the number of older brothers he has. Each older brother increases the odds by 1/3 – 1/2. This effect cannot have a genetic basis. Speculations for this effect focus on the mother progressively building antibodies against an unknown male protein, more so with each son.

Finger length ratio. The ratio of the index finger to the 4th finger is higher in women than men. In people with homosexual preference, there is a tendency for the ratio to be lower than in heterosexuals of the same sex. By this criterion, homosexuality is associated with overmasculinization.

Childhood gender non-conformity. Children that fail to conform to standard childhood gender roles (such as ‘tomboy’ girls and effeminate boys) have a higher incidence of adult homosexuality than children that conform to standard gender roles. This kind of study is difficult to do properly (prospectively). The danger of doing this kind of study retrospectively, after sexual preference is already known, is that there will be a biased tendency to selectively recall instances of childhood behaviors that fit the adult outcome.

Otoacoustic emissions (OAE). Our ears actually make sounds, though they are too weak to hear by ear. They have a characteristic frequency, starting in early childhood. The right ear’s OAE is different from the left ear’s, and males differ from females. A UT researcher (Dennis McFadden) is finding that gay males have slightly different OAE frequencies than heterosexual men. The direction of the difference supports an overmasculinization of gay men.

Interstitial nucleus of the Anterior Hypothalamus #3. In 1991, Simon LeVay reported a search for sexual preference differences in the size (volume) of 4 brain nuclei in a brain region known as the anterior hypothalamus. Work on rodents had demonstrated that this brain region affected sexual behavior, and work on humans had already identified a male-female difference in tiny regions or ‘nuclei’ of the anterior hypothalamus. LeVay found a difference between heterosexual and gay men in one of these nuclei (#3); the size of INAH3 in gay men was similar to that of (heterosexual) females and smaller than that of heterosexual men.
Other studies have reported brain differences associated with sexual preference. The regions involved (in different studies) have been the suprachiasmatic nucleus, the mid-saggital plane of the anterior commissure, and the isthmus of the corpus callosum.

- A new scientific study at the University of Illinois has found that genetic manipulation in fruit flies can "turn" their homosexual behaviour on and off within a few hours. The Chicago-based scientist said that humans have a similar gene, but he added that it was not known yet if it had any influence in humans' same-sex behaviour.




I personally don't think it matters why people are gay though. They aren't a harm to anyone, so I don't see why people can't just let them live their lives and be happy!


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Re: Why are people gay? - October 9th 2009, 11:38 PM

Sugar Rush, that list of your is fabulous.

To put this as short and bluntly as possible, if something turns you on, what the heck is unnatural about it?


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Re: Why are people gay? - October 9th 2009, 11:39 PM

it's one whole lot more natural than the computer you're using to start this threat with...
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Re: Why are people gay? - October 16th 2009, 10:50 PM

I'm not quite sure, really. I just woke up one morning with an odd craving for vagina, and when I opened my eyes, there was a syrringe sticking out of the vein in my left arm. Attached was a note that read "YOU'VE BEEN HIT".
   
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Re: Why are people gay? - October 16th 2009, 11:45 PM

ok to that sugarrush person to be straight is infused in our brains guy likes girl girl likes boy boy likes the girls boobs girl likes his hair i think. it makes sense its how babies are made male on women hot hot sex


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Re: Why are people gay? - October 17th 2009, 12:21 AM

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But what about the people who are able to counsel gays and help them become straight again?
wow. this point of view makes me so angry. i've been having emotional problems and depression because of the hardship i'm going through because of my sexual orientation in my family and life, and let me tell you: it sucks. noone's able to turn a truly gay person into a straight one, unless they're lying. south park has a good episode in this topic, i think it sums up what i think of the issue. also, while sitting in the cinema watching bruno with my straight sister a few months ago she couldn't understand why i started crying in the middle of the movie when that 'helper' priest talked. imo most of these people are latent homosexuals themselves, and they need to feel they're making up for their 'sick feelings'.
   
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Re: Why are people gay? - October 17th 2009, 08:09 AM

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Ok then if it some completely natural and perfectly fine thing why not choose it? Obviously it is a negative choice based on how you worded it.
I think the point that she was trying to get across is that it's difficult for some people who are born gay to live their life without being ridiculed for it. It's also harder for them to find another person that is homosexual because statistically, more people are heterosexual than homosexual.

I somewhat agree... Why would people choose to be gay if everything ended up being harder for them? It's not like they would want to have difficulty fitting in or finding a partner.
   
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Re: Why are people gay? - October 17th 2009, 10:18 AM

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Originally Posted by SugarRush View Post
I have a question too: Why are people straight?

Sounds ridiculous the other way round, doesn't it?

^ my friend posted these questions on another forum I'm a member of. It gets you thinking how stupid the questions really sound with them reversed.
Oh my God, brilliant. Brilliant. Those questions were great. (:


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Re: Why are people gay? - October 17th 2009, 01:31 PM

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What I think the main problem is is the confusion between sex and love, which are closely connected. Sex, in one sense, is a way of pleasuring someone else. It can also be a way of establishing a powerful connection with another person. Sex is also the way humans are created. But does that mean that sex is the only aspect we can focus on? Not necessarily. Just because sexuality has the word 'sex' in it does not mean that it's all about sex. Perhaps we were biologically designed to reproduce with members of the opposite gender. But nothing in our biological make up decides that we're supposed to be attracted to and love a specific gender.
Worddd.

Sex isn't love.
Maybe people choose to fall in love with the people who make them happy... is that really such a crazy idea?

The fact that people think gay people aren't natural comes from years of people deciding that different is bad. And that is a load of rubbish.
Different should be embraced and supported for what it is.
Love is love, its as simple as that.


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Re: Why are people gay? - October 17th 2009, 02:18 PM

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Ok then if it some completely natural and perfectly fine thing why not choose it? Obviously it is a negative choice based on how you worded it.
I meant (as some others have already said) that with the way people (such as yourself) think and act towards homosexuals, it makes it extremely difficult to be homosexual. And, obviously, people wouldn't subject themselves to such treatment if they could help it.

But they can't help it. It's not a choice because nobody would choose to go through the hell that homosexuals have to put up with.
   
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Re: Why are people gay? - October 17th 2009, 03:44 PM

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Originally Posted by x_nicola View Post
But they can't help it. It's not a choice because nobody would choose to go through the hell that homosexuals have to put up with.
Exactly!!
You've pretty much said what I was thinking there dear.


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Re: Why are people gay? - October 17th 2009, 08:58 PM

I personally just hope that doctors and specialist never find out a real reason for why we are born gay....because then they will try to find a cure.
   
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Re: Why are people gay? - October 18th 2009, 02:17 AM

I had a teacher make a very good point last semester. She said we need to stop saying that "Being gay is not a choice" because it implys that choosing to be gay is a negative thing, which implys that being gay is a negative thing. Honestly the more we argue that people would never choose to be gay because of the hell that most homosexuals are put through, the more we really hurt ourselves. However the fact is that homosexuality is biological. It's found in nature. And it always amuses me when people say that if we were all homosexual the human race would cease to exist. I mean it's laughable. We are not a stupid race, we are capable of having sex with the opposite sex in order to keep our race going. Just because you're gay doesn't mean you are incapable of having sex with someone of the opposite sex. So that blows that ridiculous argument out of the water.

Also I almost came on here to write some nasty things when I saw the mental illness comment. But it's not worth it no matter how horrible of a thing it was to write.


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