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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
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More women than men dismissed from military for being gay - October 9th 2009, 04:55 PM

http://m.cnn.com/cnn/lt_ne/lt_ne/detail/380365 This policy is old and needs to change.


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Re: More women than men dismissed from military for being gay - October 9th 2009, 05:03 PM

what??. how ridiculous. on what grounds are gay people not allowed in the military?


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Re: More women than men dismissed from military for being gay - October 9th 2009, 06:19 PM

It'll stop the straight soldiers from being able to do their job Obviously. lol

Don't Ask Don't Tell is an absurd, outdated policy, which has no founding in evidence. And is pure and simple discrimination. And By the sounds of it, can be a witch hunt.

Also, Edge, I don't think the link is working? It's taking me to just a menu.
   
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Re: More women than men dismissed from military for being gay - October 9th 2009, 06:23 PM

Ehm a link that works please?

Elle - I know that you can't be allowed into the Navy if you're gay for... ehm... obvious reasons. However once they started letting females into the army it became a bit dated...
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Re: More women than men dismissed from military for being gay - October 9th 2009, 06:38 PM

Well, even if you were in the navy, and having gay sex. So long as its consentual, so what? They'd both be adults.
   
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Re: More women than men dismissed from military for being gay - October 9th 2009, 06:59 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/10/09/mil...als/index.html should work.


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Re: More women than men dismissed from military for being gay - October 10th 2009, 05:56 AM

"Don't ask, don't tell" is such a retarded, redundant, stupid, pointless, rule. I can't be in the military because I might be gay? That's dumb. My very openly gay friend is going to join the army, and he has to hide his sexuality to do so.

Also, this seems a bit sexism. Of course women are going to distract men, especially if they are gay. But really, come on. They want to fight for their country, their sexuality should not matter. It does not make them any less of a soldier.


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Re: More women than men dismissed from military for being gay - October 10th 2009, 10:08 AM

Yes it does, it ruins the tradition and honor of the armed forces, and it detracts from unit moral. The only reason we don't allow women on the front is because of POW problems arrising is they were captured. Gays should not, and will not allowed to openly be in the military, we should have a policy stating no gays, bi, pan, trans, les, etc. Only heterosexuals should be allowed in the military. We need no more gay influence in our lives, and the fact that in the middle east they would butcher them for being gay, let's not orget our Iranian friend's policy on that... The military is for heterosexuals, and nobody else!


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Re: More women than men dismissed from military for being gay - October 10th 2009, 10:31 AM

Seriously, Kadster? The LGBT community are people too, you know, and should have just as much right to be in the army as straight people.
   
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Re: More women than men dismissed from military for being gay - October 10th 2009, 02:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadster View Post
Yes it does, it ruins the tradition and honor of the armed forces, and it detracts from unit moral. The only reason we don't allow women on the front is because of POW problems arrising is they were captured. Gays should not, and will not allowed to openly be in the military, we should have a policy stating no gays, bi, pan, trans, les, etc. Only heterosexuals should be allowed in the military. We need no more gay influence in our lives, and the fact that in the middle east they would butcher them for being gay, let's not orget our Iranian friend's policy on that... The military is for heterosexuals, and nobody else!




no, we need no more homophobic influence in our lives.


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Last edited by losing touch.; October 10th 2009 at 02:27 PM.
   
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Re: More women than men dismissed from military for being gay - October 10th 2009, 02:15 PM

Why is it that don't ask don't tell was instated anyway? I mean they can protect us too. We need soldiers or else there will be a draft.
   
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Re: More women than men dismissed from military for being gay - October 10th 2009, 02:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadster View Post
Yes it does, it ruins the tradition and honor of the armed forces, and it detracts from unit moral. The only reason we don't allow women on the front is because of POW problems arrising is they were captured. Gays should not, and will not allowed to openly be in the military, we should have a policy stating no gays, bi, pan, trans, les, etc. Only heterosexuals should be allowed in the military. We need no more gay influence in our lives, and the fact that in the middle east they would butcher them for being gay, let's not orget our Iranian friend's policy on that... The military is for heterosexuals, and nobody else!
....but why?
What's your actual reasoning for not allowing homosexuals in the army?
Would you rather not stand a chance or have a strong army which included homosexuals?
I'm pretty sure that the reasons why armies and soldiers are honoured is not due to their sexuality, either.
   
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Re: More women than men dismissed from military for being gay - October 10th 2009, 04:43 PM

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Well, even if you were in the navy, and having gay sex. So long as its consentual, so what? They'd both be adults.
Well there's a lot of reasons. First one is that intimite (damn spellcheck) relationships could distract soldiers - how do you expect someone to think straight when their lover's being pinned down by gunfire? Next you've got the problem of STDs spreading throughout the ship, and lets not forget the flak the navy would get if military personnel consistently turned gay on long trips out of sheer loneliness - a PR disaster.

Not that any of this should be a reason to exclude gays from the military (well except for the STD point, but then again females are allowed...), but it wasn't all homophobia.
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Re: More women than men dismissed from military for being gay - October 10th 2009, 05:16 PM

It's because homosexuals can't swim, they attract enemy radar, they attract sharks, they get up late, they can't see in the dark and they nudge people while they're shooting. Obviously they shouldn't be allowed in the military.
   
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Re: More women than men dismissed from military for being gay - October 10th 2009, 09:49 PM

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Originally Posted by Stephanie View Post

....but why?
What's your actual reasoning for not allowing homosexuals in the army? Would you rather not stand a chance or have a strong army which included homosexuals?
I'm pretty sure that the reasons why armies and soldiers are honoured is not due to their sexuality, either.
It ruins unit morale, most people are heterosexual and having a homosexual in there causing problems is a dampar. Also you then have to deal with things such as bunks, etc. Also the difference homosexuals would make in creating a stronger army is negligable. We don't have a weak army, and we don't allow openly homosexual people in, so where do you stand on that?


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Re: More women than men dismissed from military for being gay - October 10th 2009, 09:52 PM

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Seriously, Kadster? The LGBT community are people too, you know, and should have just as much right to be in the army as straight people.
I don't deny they are people, but their mental health is questionable, as we still don't truly understand how or why there are LGB people (Trans is a choice).


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  (#17 (permalink)) Old
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Re: More women than men dismissed from military for being gay - October 10th 2009, 09:57 PM

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I don't deny they are people, but their mental health is questionable, as we still don't truly understand how or why there are LGB people (Trans is a choice).
Uhhh. You seriously said Trans people choose? No... Why in the HELL would they choose that... And mental health? What is wrong with being gay? It doesn't hurt anyone... Seriously, how does a homosexual negatively affect morale?




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Re: More women than men dismissed from military for being gay - October 10th 2009, 09:59 PM

I rather see happy Bi/Gay/lesbians in the military fighting for what they Truly believe in. Instead of some person who has no passion for the country they are fighting for.


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Re: More women than men dismissed from military for being gay - October 10th 2009, 10:02 PM

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It ruins unit morale, most people are heterosexual and having a homosexual in there causing problems is a dampar. Also you then have to deal with things such as bunks, etc. Also the difference homosexuals would make in creating a stronger army is negligable. We don't have a weak army, and we don't allow openly homosexual people in, so where do you stand on that?
First of all, I never stated that having homosexuals in the army would make an army stronger or weaker, I was wondering what your stance would be if your only option was to have a primarily homosexual army, rather than none at all.

You're making it sound like the majority of the army would be gay if they allow it, which wouldn't be the case. I'm sure that people already are gay in the army, just not openly. What is the difference between letting in an openly gay and a 'secretly' gay person join the army? It doesn't make a difference. I don't see why it would ruin 'unit morale' seeing as not everyone is homophobic. Just because someone is homosexual, it doesn't need to be a problem or mean that they're automatically going to 'cause problems'. Perhaps people should be educated about how homosexuals are are as valuable and as equal as heterosexual people, rather than persecuting homosexuals for being potential victims.
   
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Re: More women than men dismissed from military for being gay - October 10th 2009, 10:10 PM

Guys, let's try and debate the subject and not with the person, okay?

Quote:
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It's because homosexuals can't swim, they attract enemy radar, they attract sharks, they get up late, they can't see in the dark and they nudge people while they're shooting. Obviously they shouldn't be allowed in the military.
You made me laugh Jack xD


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadster View Post
It ruins unit morale, most people are heterosexual and having a homosexual in there causing problems is a dampar. Also you then have to deal with things such as bunks, etc. Also the difference homosexuals would make in creating a stronger army is negligable. We don't have a weak army, and we don't allow openly homosexual people in, so where do you stand on that?
Kadster, how do homosexuals cause problems? And their mental health is questionable? I am curious on how you came to that conclusion. They are no more mentally unstable than heterosexuals. If you don't know someone was gay, there would be very little difference in them fighting for their country than a heterosexual.

Ah yes, we should definitely stop homosexual influence. It's just ruining our world. You are way too close minded, it's sad actually. I am gay, I am not mentally unstable, I could fight for my country if I chose too.


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Re: More women than men dismissed from military for being gay - October 11th 2009, 05:31 AM

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how does a homosexual negatively affect morale?
Think about it, 1000 soldiers on a ship, men and women sleep in seperate areas, but a gay would be among the men, as in among the people he desires... rape, STDs, do you really want to be trying to sleep while two guys get it on in the bunk above you?


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Re: More women than men dismissed from military for being gay - October 11th 2009, 06:23 AM

Gay people work in every other profession, so I don't see why the military should be any different. If they start doing things that are inappropriate and not doing their job as they are supposed to, THEN kick them out. I'm sure most of them are good, intelligent people who will behave properly though.


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Re: More women than men dismissed from military for being gay - October 11th 2009, 06:46 AM

Kadster, ANYONE CAN RAPE.


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Re: More women than men dismissed from military for being gay - October 11th 2009, 10:16 AM

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Think about it, 1000 soldiers on a ship, men and women sleep in seperate areas, but a gay would be among the men, as in among the people he desires... rape, STDs, do you really want to be trying to sleep while two guys get it on in the bunk above you?
So, every homosexual person is automatically going to rape people and spread STDs around? As 30fHearts has already stated, anyone can rape. Also, I'm sure that homosexual people aren't going to insist on having sex right above you every night. Honestly, I think you're being over the top. Gay people don't have sex 24/7, you know.
   
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Re: More women than men dismissed from military for being gay - October 11th 2009, 05:25 PM

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Think about it, 1000 soldiers on a ship, men and women sleep in seperate areas, but a gay would be among the men, as in among the people he desires... rape, STDs, do you really want to be trying to sleep while two guys get it on in the bunk above you?
So if you have to work with women in the work place, as in among the people you desire, you're going to rape them and spread STDs?

Damn, and there I thought most people were capable of controlling their sexual urges and were able to restrain themselves from raping everyone they find attractive. My bad.

Not to mention the "don't ask, don't tell" stance on gays in the US army means they have to be celibate and not "get it on in the bunk above you". Plus if the relationship broke the military fraternization policies, as it probably would if they were getting it on above you, then it wouldn't be allowed. Although, the UK allows openly gay people to serve in the army and so far I've not heard about any problems such as the ones you mention.

Last edited by Jack; October 11th 2009 at 05:45 PM.
   
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Re: More women than men dismissed from military for being gay - October 11th 2009, 06:13 PM

Quote:
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Think about it, 1000 soldiers on a ship, men and women sleep in seperate areas, but a gay would be among the men, as in among the people he desires... rape, STDs, do you really want to be trying to sleep while two guys get it on in the bunk above you?
Wow. I really have a problem with this, just going to be straight forward about it.

So because I likes females and I'm a female, I'm going to distract people in the army, therefore I should not be allowed? I'm not even sure if I can fathom what exactly you're saying enough to make a valid argument against you. I think you need to think that one through a bit more.

People get kicked out of the military all the time. I actually spoke to a lady who had come out to her higher-up (Whatever their names are) and immediately got discharged - before that she had won tons of medals and honors and so forth. It's absolutely ridiculous to base someone's worth by their sexual orientation.



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Re: More women than men dismissed from military for being gay - October 12th 2009, 02:19 PM

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Well there's a lot of reasons. First one is that intimite (damn spellcheck) relationships could distract soldiers - how do you expect someone to think straight when their lover's being pinned down by gunfire? Next you've got the problem of STDs spreading throughout the ship, and lets not forget the flak the navy would get if military personnel consistently turned gay on long trips out of sheer loneliness - a PR disaster.

Not that any of this should be a reason to exclude gays from the military (well except for the STD point, but then again females are allowed...), but it wasn't all homophobia.
Fair enough, I forget there are rules against straight sex in these places too... but don't ask don't tell isnt just about not having sex on board with your fellow soldiers. If youget found out to be gay in your provate home life, that's grounds for being discharged, even if you have been otherwise completely celibate on duty and with your soldiers. Whereas a straight soldier can be married at home and go to war. Now that's homophobia.

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I don't deny they are people, but their mental health is questionable, as we still don't truly understand how or why there are LGB people (Trans is a choice).
Its more unhealthy to be closeted then out. And as closet cases ('dont ask, dont tell') are perfectabily acceptable in the US army, then this is a mute point. LGB people may have a slightly high rate of mental health issues, then straight white people, but thats not about their sexual orientation, thats about being a discriminated minority. And although its not truely understood what is the very initial cause of homosexuality, there is no suggestion it is a harmful affletion of dangerous mental health. Get real.

Also trans is a choice? Excuse me? Yes, that's why they have the highest suicide rate, because they don't actually want to be trans (largely due to discrimination). They don't choose it, in fact, there's a significant amount of research that suggests its a biological issue. Sex and gender are not straight forward, as shown by intersexed conditions. Go do some research before you make stupid comments.

Admittedly, I think all people should be screen for mental health problems before they join the army, and there should be a set standard of mental well being for you to join the army, like with physical health. But I assume that's already in place.

I'm obsessive compulsive, this might affect me as a soldier, but who I want to have a relationship is totally independant of how I could work as a soldier.

And if gays got caught as POWs, they'd be treated worse then other soldiers? Chances are, if they are trained soldiers, you wouldnt even know they were gay, unless they told you, even if they were allowed to be out.

And lots of countries, like the UK, allow out homosexuals in the army, and it hasn't caused a problem or lowered morale. If it lowers morale, there's prejudice involved, and the government should not encourage that. Its like saying black and white people shouldnt be able to serve together, in effect, incase someone's racist.

And gay people being out is going to cause rapes? Most gay people aren't rapists. Rape is illegal, even if you are allowed to be an out homosexual. In fact, dont ask, dont tell, may even make reporting a rape more difficult for some people, incase they feel they'll be accused of being gay and kicked out. Straight men sometimes rape men, because rape isn't just about sex, and even when it is, some men 'compermise' when their preference isnt around. Gay men can have commited monogomous relationships back at home, not all gay men are cheaters. You simply make a rule not to have sex on board, and enforce that, and its more likely to prevent STDs then telling people they can't come out. And lesbians are less likely to spread STDs amongst women then men are. And as someone else said, about the rape stuff, its called self control. I've shared beds with other queer women (being attracted to women myself), and we still didnt have sex. I lived alone with one for an entire year, we didnt have sex. There's a time and a place, an dmost gay people understand this. Not to mention, the gays who'd actually join the army will be there 'cause they want to serve, not because they want to fuck about.
   
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Re: More women than men dismissed from military for being gay - October 12th 2009, 05:56 PM

I don't see what's so hard to believe. There's a lot of prejudice around homosexuals and a lot of people are still uneasy around them. That would be distracting in a battle zone. So they eliminate openly homosexual people so as not to raise concern among the majority. It might be morally wrong, however there is a clear benefit as just mentioned.
As far as the article goes, I personally have noticed that women are more open about being gay than men, so I'm not at all surprised to see more women discharged.


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Re: More women than men dismissed from military for being gay - October 13th 2009, 12:16 AM

I'm just wondering why it really matters? If a person is homosexual/trans/whatever it makes no difference.

In a way, I don't mind the "don't ask don't tell" rule because you join the military to DEFEND YOUR COUNTRY. You're not there to have sex. Who you're attracted to has no relevance because you still have to do your job. I don't think people should hide it, but people shouldn't be flaunting it either. So why ask if it doesn't even matter?

What I don't agree with is that they kick people out for being gay...That's not right. Because in the end, it really won't matter when they're on the battlefield.
   
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Re: More women than men dismissed from military for being gay - October 13th 2009, 12:19 AM

being gay shouldn't stop you from defending your country. If the grounds for them being kicked out is merely because of the distraction then give them their own sleeping area
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  (#31 (permalink)) Old
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Re: More women than men dismissed from military for being gay - October 13th 2009, 12:54 AM

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So, every homosexual person is automatically going to rape people and spread STDs around? As 30fHearts has already stated, anyone can rape. Also, I'm sure that homosexual people aren't going to insist on having sex right above you every night. Honestly, I think you're being over the top. Gay people don't have sex 24/7, you know.
No but it is much harder to go to the opposite are of the ship, sneak in durign the night and rape someone then it is to hop to the floor from your bunk.


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Re: More women than men dismissed from military for being gay - October 13th 2009, 01:00 AM

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Think about it, 1000 soldiers on a ship, men and women sleep in seperate areas, but a gay would be among the men, as in among the people he desires... rape, STDs, do you really want to be trying to sleep while two guys get it on in the bunk above you?
Have you looked into any case studies or research about this? Or do you just make a blanket statement based on horrible stereotypes? It isn't some college dorm, gay people don't just hook up for the hell of it. Gays are human, they don't rape people any more than heterosexuals would.

Frankly your homophobia and prejudice are disgusting. Maybe it would be acceptable in the 1860s when Prussia was the military power of Europe, but today it simply comes off as as intolerance.


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Re: More women than men dismissed from military for being gay - October 13th 2009, 04:07 AM

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Have you looked into any case studies or research about this? Or do you just make a blanket statement based on horrible stereotypes? It isn't some college dorm, gay people don't just hook up for the hell of it. Gays are human, they don't rape people any more than heterosexuals would.

Frankly your homophobia and prejudice are disgusting. Maybe it would be acceptable in the 1860s when Prussia was the military power of Europe, but today it simply comes off as as intolerance.
Oh so it's fine for you to make comments about my ethnicity but if I say something against the LBGT we need to start up world war three don't we?


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Re: More women than men dismissed from military for being gay - October 13th 2009, 04:37 AM

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Oh so it's fine for you to make comments about my ethnicity but if I say something against the LBGT we need to start up world war three don't we?
I don't think he's making comments about your ethnicity, kad. He's just saying that view would have been supported 150 years ago in Prussia.
   
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Re: More women than men dismissed from military for being gay - October 13th 2009, 10:28 AM

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Oh so it's fine for you to make comments about my ethnicity but if I say something against the LBGT we need to start up world war three don't we?
Not trying to make fun of your ethnicity at all. I am part German and I love Prussia. Really I swear. Have you played Empire Total War? You get to be Prussia starting in 1701 and attack other countries and whatnot.


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Re: More women than men dismissed from military for being gay - October 14th 2009, 08:36 PM

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Originally Posted by Kadster View Post
Think about it, 1000 soldiers on a ship, men and women sleep in seperate areas, but a gay would be among the men, as in among the people he desires... rape, STDs, do you really want to be trying to sleep while two guys get it on in the bunk above you?
Well, let me put it this way, I'm bi, and I regurally share a bed with my straight female best friend, and nothing has ever happened between us, because shockingly, I can control myself, being gay doesn't make you a pervert.

How the hell can they still have a rule like this?? I wasn't even aware of this before today lol.




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Re: More women than men dismissed from military for being gay - October 14th 2009, 10:51 PM

Kadster do you honestly believe all gays are rapist?


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Re: More women than men dismissed from military for being gay - October 17th 2009, 08:34 PM

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I don't deny they are people, but their mental health is questionable, as we still don't truly understand how or why there are LGB people (Trans is a choice).
I'm sorry for the lateness of this, but Kadster, are you for real? From what I've seen of you around these forums, you're the one whose mental health seems closer to questionable than any of the LGBT people on here. And just because we don't understand why there are LGB people doesn't mean we should condemn it. We don't understand why life started at all, so by that logic, surely no-one living should be allowed in the military? (Actually, that doesn't sound like such a bad idea, in my opinion...)

And I don't think your comment of "Trans is a choice" even deserves readiing. Try living in a female body for a week, then tell us it's a choice to feel uncomfortable.
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Re: More women than men dismissed from military for being gay - October 18th 2009, 02:19 AM

I think that if a gay was to rape someone in their bunk or ship or whatever, they would get severally beaten by those around them and then kicked from the military, plus put on trial for rape, etc. But maybe not.
As for the root of this thread, I think that it depends on how open you are with it. Maybe women are more open about their sexual orientation then men, seeing as men are more apt to get hurt by those around them for being gay (not statistics, I'm just saying, don't quote me).
   
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Re: More women than men dismissed from military for being gay - October 19th 2009, 02:03 AM

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I don't deny they are people, but their mental health is questionable, as we still don't truly understand how or why there are LGB people (Trans is a choice).
Our mental health is not in question. Homosexuality is no longer considered a mental disease/defect. And transexuality is not a choice.
   
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