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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
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Man Fired For Expressing Opinion About Gay Marriage - November 10th 2009, 09:53 PM

http://news.aol.com/article/peter-va...izing%2F761366

I think that I'm stuck a bit on both sides here; Hopefully I can get a bit of clearance here from anyone else's opinions?

Me being a Lesbian, you would think I would immediately side with his
Manager on this, but as I read on & later watched his video I sort of became 50/50. Really, it is his opinion not hers, and if he doesn't agree with Gay Marriage, then there isn't much you can really do about that. But then the fact that his manager said "HR buddy, keep your opinions to herself" was pretty rude. So now I'm wondering who is in the wrong here; The Employee did afterall take her off to the side and explained how he was uncomfortable with her mentioning her "Female Fiance" as he put it. But then of course there is the Manager who acted the way she did. I mean really, is it really that difficult to respect the request of another person who may not agree with your beliefs? If I were her I would be like "Oh alright, sorry about that. Thanks for atleast making me aware of this!"

So what do you think?


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Re: Man Fired For Expressing Opinion About Gay Marriage - November 10th 2009, 10:24 PM

I don't agree with it, but the policy of the company DOES say that the employees shouldn't discuss personal opinions on such things, so the right to fire the man was certainly reserved.


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Re: Man Fired For Expressing Opinion About Gay Marriage - November 10th 2009, 10:55 PM

He was obviously fired for being ignorant.


Ok that's a joke but I do belief that his belief is an ignorant one. I also think he should have kept his opinions to himself. She is obviously happy that she is going to get married why did he have to make her feel badly about herself by saying homosexuality is wrong. Yes she was rude, and it's probably not good grounds to fire someone on. But I'm not going to deny that it makes me happy.


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Re: Man Fired For Expressing Opinion About Gay Marriage - November 11th 2009, 02:38 AM

One's opinions should not affect their job, even if their opinion is stupid and idiotic.



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Re: Man Fired For Expressing Opinion About Gay Marriage - November 11th 2009, 05:27 AM

There's not a whole lot of information given in the article. I don't think an employee should be fired for having an ignorant viewpoint. But if the employee's views cause them to act discriminating towards the other employee, that is an issue that needs to be dealt with, and warrants firing if it isn't stopped. But all the article really has is the fired man's version, and a vague statement from the company saying they looked into the matter, so it's really hard to judge what happened.


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Re: Man Fired For Expressing Opinion About Gay Marriage - November 11th 2009, 09:53 PM

Unless his opinion caused him to discriminate against others in his job, his firing is discriminatory plain and simple. If he simply stated his opinion and left it at that, there's no reason he should have been fired. If he harped on it to the point of harassment, then I could see firing him.
   
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Re: Man Fired For Expressing Opinion About Gay Marriage - November 11th 2009, 11:17 PM

i don't really think he should have been fired.. i mean, sure he offended this woman.. but it's not like he said it to a customer?.


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Re: Man Fired For Expressing Opinion About Gay Marriage - November 12th 2009, 04:14 AM

Honestly, I'm torn here. Where I work, we have policies about such things, if it makes you uncomfortable and you ask them to stop, but they don't, then it's their fault. Now maybe he should have just ignored it, and not said anything. He could probably take it to HR, but why bother with all that hassle?


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Re: Man Fired For Expressing Opinion About Gay Marriage - November 12th 2009, 04:21 PM

a) I highly doubt that his story is 100% accurate. Admittedly the company won't comment beyond 'a thorough and fair investigtion' occurred, but this story is purely based on this guy's word. High chance he is playing up his innocence. Not to mention, he is all 'she mentionned it repeatedly'.... then he said he said something after the fourth time she mentionned it.

Lol. This guy is a joke if you watch the entire video. Ok, he probably shouldnt be fired, but he at least deserved a warning, because its not his place to do that at work, particularly to a superior. I also will assume he has never told someone off for admitting they werent a virgin outside of marriage during work.


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  (#10 (permalink)) Old
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Re: Man Fired For Expressing Opinion About Gay Marriage - November 13th 2009, 06:18 PM

He shouldn't have been fired. But he should have held his tongue, his beliefs are disgusting and so are his words 'so-called.' Christian eh? Aren't Christians supposed to be respectful, 'love thy neighbour etc etc.'


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Re: Man Fired For Expressing Opinion About Gay Marriage - November 14th 2009, 04:33 PM

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He shouldn't have been fired. But he should have held his tongue, his beliefs are disgusting and so are his words 'so-called.' Christian eh? Aren't Christians supposed to be respectful, 'love thy neighbour etc etc.'
You can love your neighbor and disagree with them.
   
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Re: Man Fired For Expressing Opinion About Gay Marriage - November 15th 2009, 08:22 AM

Absouletely disgusting. Now were punishing a man for being straight and Christian?! That is horrid, that woman should be fired for disrespectful behavior to employees, and the fact that marriage is between a man and a woman, God mad Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve. What if the man brought up the idea that he started the "Gays should be executed" political party. Anyone can start a party in the USA (Not a powerful one mind you, but a party nonetheless) so if he went around spouting his new concepts that is what she did, yet she never got in trouble, and he politely asked her to stop. That is disgusting!


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Re: Man Fired For Expressing Opinion About Gay Marriage - November 15th 2009, 08:17 PM

He should not have been fired.
   
  (#14 (permalink)) Old
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Re: Man Fired For Expressing Opinion About Gay Marriage - November 15th 2009, 10:50 PM

Yeah the firing shouldn't have taken place :/




   
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Re: Man Fired For Expressing Opinion About Gay Marriage - November 15th 2009, 11:31 PM

I personally think it's a bit ignorant to call his beliefs stupid, idiotic, and ignorant. He, and everyone else who doesn't agree with gay marriage, obviously have reasons not to, just as people who do agree with gay marriage have their reasons.

On to the point of the thread, I agree he shouldn't have been fired for expressing his beliefs. On the other hand, the source doesn't seem overly reliable so meh.


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Re: Man Fired For Expressing Opinion About Gay Marriage - November 16th 2009, 12:17 AM

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Originally Posted by ImogenMae View Post
I personally think it's a bit ignorant to call his beliefs stupid, idiotic, and ignorant. He, and everyone else who doesn't agree with gay marriage, obviously have reasons not to, just as people who do agree with gay marriage have their reasons.

On to the point of the thread, I agree he shouldn't have been fired for expressing his beliefs. On the other hand, the source doesn't seem overly reliable so meh.
People have to right to be racist too, but they shouldn't talk about it in the workplace.


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  (#17 (permalink)) Old
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Re: Man Fired For Expressing Opinion About Gay Marriage - November 16th 2009, 12:51 AM

Hey guys. Clearlyyyy we all have different views on this. However, please try to be tasteful both in the way that we present our OWN views AND to others regardless of their views (and stay on topic). Thanks a bunch.

Goodness. I think in order for me to properly form an opinion on this, I'd need to have a better source than the man himself. I agree with Tegan and Keeley that this just isn't reliable enough, and that the guy definitely could have played up his innocence for sure. From what we do know, though, I don't think he should've been trying to rain on the woman's parade, but I feel like the media would see this in a different light/that he wouldn't have gotten fired if she was just talking about getting married and he mentioned that because of a certain religious belief, he thought marriage was "bad stuff"... So, I don't think he should've been fired based on what HE said, but I also don't think he should've even really brought it up in the first place. Unnecessary.



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Re: Man Fired For Expressing Opinion About Gay Marriage - November 16th 2009, 04:16 AM

To put it bluntly, I'd have fired him too without thinking twice, simply for being an irredeemable blight in my eyes (though of course I'd publicly use a more valid reason.) I realize that this is completely subjective, and I'm sure I'd fit the aforementioned descriptor for my beliefs to many people.

I think they're idiots, and they would reciprocate. I'm completely convinced I'm right, and so are many people with opposite views from me. This is, I think, irreconcilable, and conflict is inevitable.
   
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Re: Man Fired For Expressing Opinion About Gay Marriage - November 17th 2009, 12:14 AM

Okay, I can't decide who was in the wrong here. I kind of get what they're saying about the whole not expressing personal opinions at the work place thing. I mean, it's your job. It's not somewhere that you just get to talk about whatever, and express every single opinion that you have, because that kind of stuff may get you into trouble. At the same time, I really don't like the fact that you can't express your opinion when you're working because this should be a country based on freedom of expression. This should mean freedom of expression no matter where you are, and obviously this isn't something that we have yet, but I think it should be. I don't think people should have to worry about who's listening to what they're saying. Then again, I contradict myself because sometimes I'd like to just get the job done and go home without having to hear a bunch of political arguments flare up at work because we would be 'allowed' to talk about them there. I don't know. I'm also 50/50 on this one. Gahhh.


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Re: Man Fired For Expressing Opinion About Gay Marriage - November 17th 2009, 12:26 AM

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I really don't like the fact that you can't express your opinion when you're working because this should be a country based on freedom of expression. This should mean freedom of expression no matter where you are, and obviously this isn't something that we have yet, but I think it should be. I don't think people should have to worry about who's listening to what they're saying.
Agreed, if you have too look over your shoulder before you say things, you're either clearly somewhere you shouldn't be, or saying something that is just outright offensive.



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Re: Man Fired For Expressing Opinion About Gay Marriage - November 17th 2009, 12:35 AM

I think he's a bit of an asshole for obviously being so uncomfortable with gay marriage... But if what he says is true and that he calmly asked the superior to stop talking about her girl fiance (anyone know why he kept saying so called? I find that annoying) then I feel like maybe he shouldn't have been fired so quickly just because of his opinions. It's not like he was picking on her or saying anything rude. According to him, he tried to quickly change the subject to avoid the conflict.


I think everyone is entitled to their opinions but... I dont know. I still think people who hate gays are just ignorant and arrrgggg.

I think your personal life should not show up in work at ALL personally... She probably should have shut up about her fiance more. Mention it but talking about it all day long would certaintly be annoying. Then again he said she mentioned it 4 times (then went back to say at least... idk)


I never know what exactly to think in these news stuff because people could always be making things up, or just even exaggerating. Which causes bias and blahblahblah
But I suppose people have a right to be racist or prejudice or whatever, as long as they're not hurting anyone, I suppose they're aloud to. Even though I still think it's incredibly ignorant.

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Re: Man Fired For Expressing Opinion About Gay Marriage - November 17th 2009, 12:37 AM

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Agreed, if you have too look over your shoulder before you say things, you're either clearly somewhere you shouldn't be, or saying something that is just outright offensive.
Yes, definitely. I mean, as long as someone is going about expressing their opinions in a constructive manner, I have no problems with it, even if they're opinions clash with my opinions.


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Re: Man Fired For Expressing Opinion About Gay Marriage - November 17th 2009, 12:43 AM

well in my opinion even tho i am straight is the woman was right she has rights too! and the man doesnt realize her offended her as much as she offended him! just because you love someone of the same sex doesnt mean you should be shunned! As long as you are happy! Somewhere in one of the United States documents it states EVERYONE has the RIGHT to PURSUE HAPPINESS! So people I reallyu dont care if you think its wrong or not because they have THE SAME RIGHTS AS YOU so GET OVER IT! and YES the guy was being discriminational he deserved to be fired!


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Re: Man Fired For Expressing Opinion About Gay Marriage - November 17th 2009, 04:17 AM

Descrimination and prejudice are baaaad things in the workplace, trust you me. I'm taking an engineering ethics course right now and one would get their ass removed painfully from work and lose their license to practise for descrimination of any sort. Very dangerous territory.


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Re: Man Fired For Expressing Opinion About Gay Marriage - November 17th 2009, 02:03 PM

Discrimination and prejudice are bad things, yes. However, this man was simply expressing his opinion on the matter, and in a nice way. He said it makes him feel uncomfortable. Who are we to tell him that he's wrong for saying that just because we don't agree with him? It makes him feel uncomfortable and you should be able to feel comfortable at work otherwise you won't be productive. It's not like he was bashing gay people, calling them stupid or disgusting.

I just think that everyone blew this way out of proportion. When people start getting fired for expressing their personal opinions, things start to get sketchy. That's not what this country should be about, but it's sad that it's starting to seem that way. Freedom of speech/expression is out the window I guess.


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November 17th 2009, 03:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by disaster117 View Post
I really don't like the fact that you can't express your opinion when you're working because this should be a country based on freedom of expression. This should mean freedom of expression no matter where you are, and obviously this isn't something that we have yet, but I think it should be.
This was my reaction to it. Everyone raves about having freedom of speech when they are able to chose their leaders, say what they feel about their government, but freedom of speech works both ways - it sometimes means you have to hear things you don't want to. That's part of a democracy, an equal society.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gixxers rock View Post
Descrimination and prejudice are baaaad things in the workplace, trust you me. I'm taking an engineering ethics course right now and one would get their ass removed painfully from work and lose their license to practise for descrimination of any sort. Very dangerous territory.
Has this man not been discriminated against for his opinion? I'd say that is what this is.

People get so fixated on there being a particular group of people that are prejudiced against - in this case gays and lesbians - that they're completely unable to see that it also works in the other direction. much less commonly, but it's there.

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Re: Man Fired For Expressing Opinion About Gay Marriage - November 17th 2009, 04:36 PM

Really, I was half-prepared to defend the guy until he started saying "so-called" fiance, practically spitting the air quote. I'm going to go out on a limb and wager that if he's that crass on video, he probably wasn't quite as polite at the time as he made himself out to be. Just my feeling.

Otherwise, firing him was probably overkill, but then it should be pretty obvious that telling your boss that her lifestyle is sinful is not really a wise career move.


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Re: Man Fired For Expressing Opinion About Gay Marriage - November 17th 2009, 06:51 PM

She shouldn't have fired him. Once again the liberals that preach openmindedness and acceptance of all prove to be more intolerant than everyone else. If she can have the opinion that it's okay and expect it to be respected, than he has the right to feel the oposite and have it respected.


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Re: Man Fired For Expressing Opinion About Gay Marriage - November 17th 2009, 09:08 PM

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She shouldn't have fired him. Once again the liberals that preach openmindedness and acceptance of all prove to be more intolerant than everyone else. If she can have the opinion that it's okay and expect it to be respected, than he has the right to feel the oposite and have it respected.
So open racism is to be allowed as well in the workplace? The Mormon religious doctrine has some racist segments and Brigham Young University got a lot of slander for being racist. 100 years ago, if a racist person got fired for stating his views people would be up in arms about it. Truth is, this is all status quo because we haven't gotten to the point where homosexual marriage is seen as acceptable.


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Re: Man Fired For Expressing Opinion About Gay Marriage - November 18th 2009, 11:31 PM

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So open racism is to be allowed as well in the workplace? The Mormon religious doctrine has some racist segments and Brigham Young University got a lot of slander for being racist. 100 years ago, if a racist person got fired for stating his views people would be up in arms about it. Truth is, this is all status quo because we haven't gotten to the point where homosexual marriage is seen as acceptable.
Based on what he has said (that is all we have to go by), it doesn't sound like he was "openly" homophobic. It sounds like he kept it to a private conversation between the two of them.
   
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Re: Man Fired For Expressing Opinion About Gay Marriage - November 20th 2009, 04:45 AM

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Originally Posted by Double X View Post
So open racism is to be allowed as well in the workplace? The Mormon religious doctrine has some racist segments and Brigham Young University got a lot of slander for being racist. 100 years ago, if a racist person got fired for stating his views people would be up in arms about it. Truth is, this is all status quo because we haven't gotten to the point where homosexual marriage is seen as acceptable.
Last I heard being gay isn't a race.


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Re: Man Fired For Expressing Opinion About Gay Marriage - November 20th 2009, 06:30 AM

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Last I heard being gay isn't a race.
But the two issues are fairly analogous, there's just more precedent regarding racism because it's been openly discussed for a longer period of time.


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December 4th 2009, 07:35 AM

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Originally Posted by thebigmole View Post
He was obviously fired for being ignorant.


Ok that's a joke but I do belief that his belief is an ignorant one. I also think he should have kept his opinions to himself. She is obviously happy that she is going to get married why did he have to make her feel badly about herself by saying homosexuality is wrong. Yes she was rude, and it's probably not good grounds to fire someone on. But I'm not going to deny that it makes me happy.
Why did he have to make her feel badly? Why did she have to bring it up MULTIPLE times (I'm sure she was being completely obnoxious and flamboyant about the fact that she's homosexual)? This guy has a right to his beliefs and he shouldn't have to feel uncomfortable in the work place. I know exactly how he feels. I worked in a kitchen at a retirement home one time, and there were two homosexual males who worked there as well. One of them was completely tolerable, he behaved like a polite and respectable person, so I had absolutely no problem with him despite my beliefs. The second guy who was gay was COMPLETELY obnoxious about it. He would put his hand on my (everyone's) shoulder when asking a quick question the way some females do, he would randomly mention guys that he recently slept with, he was just obsolutely intolerable. I felt so uncomfortable that it drove me crazy (I layed down the law with him one day, but thats another story). There is a difference between tolerance and acceptance, and some people just can't understand that. If this lady is so insecure that someone politely saying "I'd rather not discuss you and your fiance at the work place because of my personal beliefs, thank you" bothers her and threatens her, then she is WAY more intolerant than most "homophobes". I hope this guy gets a good lawyer and sues this company into being bankrupt. Talk about being fired for the first amendment, un-freaking-believable.

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Originally Posted by Phin View Post
She shouldn't have fired him. Once again the liberals that preach openmindedness and acceptance of all prove to be more intolerant than everyone else. If she can have the opinion that it's okay and expect it to be respected, than he has the right to feel the oposite and have it respected.
+1

You are right on my friend. If he would have been talking about his religion or something and if she came up to him and said "I'm athiest and would rather not talk about religion" then NOTHING would of happened. So why should anything happen to him? This is just unreal.

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Re: Man Fired For Expressing Opinion About Gay Marriage - December 4th 2009, 01:42 PM

This is like not allowing free speech. That dude should sue. Just bevause he doesn't like gay marriage doesn't mean he should be fired.

Phin and slickguy know what I'm talking about.
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Re: Man Fired For Expressing Opinion About Gay Marriage - December 4th 2009, 10:25 PM

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Originally Posted by slickguy55 View Post
Why did he have to make her feel badly? Why did she have to bring it up MULTIPLE times (I'm sure she was being completely obnoxious and flamboyant about the fact that she's homosexual)? This guy has a right to his beliefs and he shouldn't have to feel uncomfortable in the work place. I know exactly how he feels. I worked in a kitchen at a retirement home one time, and there were two homosexual males who worked there as well. One of them was completely tolerable, he behaved like a polite and respectable person, so I had absolutely no problem with him despite my beliefs. The second guy who was gay was COMPLETELY obnoxious about it. He would put his hand on my (everyone's) shoulder when asking a quick question the way some females do, he would randomly mention guys that he recently slept with, he was just obsolutely intolerable. I felt so uncomfortable that it drove me crazy (I layed down the law with him one day, but thats another story). There is a difference between tolerance and acceptance, and some people just can't understand that. If this lady is so insecure that someone politely saying "I'd rather not discuss you and your fiance at the work place because of my personal beliefs, thank you" bothers her and threatens her, then she is WAY more intolerant than most "homophobes". I hope this guy gets a good lawyer and sues this company into being bankrupt. Talk about being fired for the first amendment, un-freaking-believable.
Tell me something. If this was a black woman talking about her white male fiance and the guy asked her to stop talking about it because he was against interracial marriage would we think that that was okay? I'm going to ignore your ignorant comment about you are sure she was being very flamboyant about her homosexuality. She's getting married, that's pretty much every woman's dream day, they tend to talk about it a lot. Why should a woman not be allowed to enjoy her special occasion simply because she happens to be marrying a person of the same sex?

And obviously you didn't watch the video. I HIGHLY doubt that this guy was polite, in the video he comes off as an ass. As for your personal situation, I don't like having to be in my dorm room listening to my roommate's friends talking about their straight sexual encounters however I deal with it. Seems to me that the guy you had a problem with was just acting like any normal guy he just happened to be talking about having sex with men instead of women.

So basically your response makes it seem like you didn't pay any attention to the story at all and that you just jumped to your own prejudice. But I responded anyway because I was bored.


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Re: Man Fired For Expressing Opinion About Gay Marriage - December 4th 2009, 11:14 PM

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Originally Posted by thebigmole View Post
Tell me something. If this was a black woman talking about her white male fiance and the guy asked her to stop talking about it because he was against interracial marriage would we think that that was okay? I'm going to ignore your ignorant comment about you are sure she was being very flamboyant about her homosexuality. She's getting married, that's pretty much every woman's dream day, they tend to talk about it a lot. Why should a woman not be allowed to enjoy her special occasion simply because she happens to be marrying a person of the same sex?

And obviously you didn't watch the video. I HIGHLY doubt that this guy was polite, in the video he comes off as an ass. As for your personal situation, I don't like having to be in my dorm room listening to my roommate's friends talking about their straight sexual encounters however I deal with it. Seems to me that the guy you had a problem with was just acting like any normal guy he just happened to be talking about having sex with men instead of women.

So basically your response makes it seem like you didn't pay any attention to the story at all and that you just jumped to your own prejudice. But I responded anyway because I was bored.
You can't tell someone to stop being black, someone can't just show up into work with skin camouflage. And there is no Christian belief that looks down upon interracial marriage.So thats completely irrelevant. And second, if you want to get into the whole "hypothetical scenarios" game, then maybe you should answer the scenario that I brought up in my previous post. There is a huge difference between someone being racist and someone being oppose to gay marriage. Being oppose to gay marriage doesn't mean you hate gay people, but I wouldn't expect you to know the difference.

And as far as my "ignorant" comment that you ignored (but you didn't really ignore, you wrote a whole paragraph about it, so it must not have been as ignorant as you want it to be) about her being flamboyant about it, well I can definitely see that being the case. She is obviously the kind of homosexual that wants to punish people who don't agree with her, so therefore it would be no surprise if shes the type that wants to shove her homosexuality down people's throats. Second, who cares if she is happy and wants to talk about it? That's fine and all, but it is a WORK place. Not a social gathering. When people work together then they should shut their mouths and keep their politics and views on controversial subjects to themselves. Period.

Obviously I did watch the video. Its pretty sad that your main argument is something so absurd as "you probably didn't watch the video". Well I did, and it is amazing to me that the man came off as an asshole to you at all. He seemed extremely polite and basically said "I have opposing views and told her I would prefer not to talk about it", that is completely reasonable. It is obvious that the lady he worked with is completely insecure, and is the type of homosexual that has zero respect for opposing views, much like a fascist.

And you know nothing about the situation at my work, so you look absolutely foolish trying to speculate. It wasn't him just saying "yeah I hooked up with someone last night" like normal guy talk (no one, not even the guys, would talk about that stuff anyway, and rightfully so because it was a work place. Maybe you are just use to working with 16 year old children). He was completely obnoxious about it and used offending detail. Know one should have to be subjected to hearing that sort of thing in the work place. The other gay guy I worked with knew how to get his job done and get along with everyone, but the other guy thought it would kill him if he didn't get to talk about his homosexuality with everyone. And it is completely ridiculous that you feel this is not a problem.
   
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Re: Man Fired For Expressing Opinion About Gay Marriage - December 5th 2009, 01:32 AM

You can't tell someone to stop being gay either. And it's not irrelevent I don't care if you discriminate for religious reasons or not discrimination is discrimination. So no there isn't a huge difference between being racist and being against gay marriage. It's still discriminating against someone for being who they are, something they cannot change, so there is no difference to know.

I only wrote one sentence about your comment actually. And just so you know if you had read the article carefully you would have seen that she doesn't work at the same store that the guy who was fired did. She was "visiting from another store". Right after that is says she MENTIONED her female finace. Mentioned her, not talked incessently, not bragged, mentioned. She was at the store, probably visiting a friend and was having a conversation with that friend, not the guy who was fired, about her upcoming wedding. And no matter how much anyone is secure with themselves no one has the right to tell them that they are bad, or wrong, for just being who they are.

Also you don't pay attention very well, I wrote ONE sentence about your not watching the video so it really wasn't the "main argument". Also I don't care how polite you are, anyone who discriminates against people for simply being who they are for whatever twisted reasons, is an asshole. If he didn't want to hear the conversation he could have simply walked away, problem solved. It's not like he worked at the same store as her or anything.

What I wrote about your work situation is what came off in your previous post. Had you elaborated more like you did in this post then I wouldn't have said what I said. I don't personally like to hear about people sexual exploits however I don't think that you would have as much as a problem with it if he was straight. Also I don't get the 16 year old comment. I mean I'm in college and trust me that's the way 20 year old guys act as well.


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Re: Man Fired For Expressing Opinion About Gay Marriage - December 5th 2009, 03:42 AM

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Originally Posted by thebigmole View Post
You can't tell someone to stop being gay either.
at least thats what they say. But it is still a bad comparison. Religion is a much better comparison because religion, like homosexuality, is something that can be kept to yourself. People make comments like "religious idiots" all of the time and NOTHING happens. So how is this any different?

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So no there isn't a huge difference between being racist and being against gay marriage. It's still discriminating against someone for being who they are, something they cannot change, so there is no difference to know.
Actually, like I said before, there is a huge difference between racism and being against gay marriage. People against gay marriage don't hate gay people, and most of them want gays to have rights as a couple, they just don't want gays to go through marriage because they believe that its a religious institution, it is their opinion. They don't hate anyone like racists do. If you can't see the difference then I don't know what to tell you.

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Originally Posted by thebigmole View Post
I only wrote one sentence about your comment actually.
Three actually.

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Originally Posted by thebigmole View Post
And just so you know if you had read the article carefully you would have seen that she doesn't work at the same store that the guy who was fired did. She was "visiting from another store".
You might be right, I'm not sure. I read it as there was a separate manager that was visiting and that the lady was the manager of that particular store. I'm not going to check right now though.

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Originally Posted by thebigmole View Post
Right after that is says she MENTIONED her female finace. Mentioned her, not talked incessently, not bragged, mentioned.
Yeah... repeatedly. at LEAST four times. And I'm the one that doesn't pay attention well? Right. Thats a pretty important detail to miss.

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Originally Posted by thebigmole View Post
She was at the store, probably visiting a friend and was having a conversation with that friend, not the guy who was fired, about her upcoming wedding. And no matter how much anyone is secure with themselves no one has the right to tell them that they are bad, or wrong, for just being who they are.
The manager WAS talking to him the first time it was mentioned. And later on when she wouldn't shut up about it he decided to confront her. He just wanted to say the it made him uncomfortable, he probably could have worded it better than he did, but it is still reasonable to bring up his discomfort.

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Originally Posted by thebigmole View Post
Also you don't pay attention very well, I wrote ONE sentence about your not watching the video so it really wasn't the "main argument".
You mentioned me not reading the story/watching the video twice. Once in the body and once in the conclusion of you post. Since you repeated yourself in the conclusion it is reasonable to believe that it was a main argument on your part. Especially when you began that sentence in you concluding paragraph with "So basically", which is a common phrase used when summing up a point. Maybe it wasn't a main argument of yours, but it sure seemed like it. If it wasn't then you might want to work on your structure.

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Originally Posted by thebigmole View Post
Also I don't care how polite you are, anyone who discriminates against people for simply being who they are for whatever twisted reasons, is an asshole. If he didn't want to hear the conversation he could have simply walked away, problem solved. It's not like he worked at the same store as her or anything.
I'm not saying the guy wasn't unorthodox with his approach. It said in one article that he went to go pray at a chapel before bringing up his discomfort, I mean who the hell does that? Even the average Christian would never do something like that. But the point is that he felt uncomfortable and got fired for his opinion, even though he could have worded his complaint a little better. And that is wrong. He should never have lost his job. Like I said, if an atheist asked a Christian to stop praying at work, and the Christian complained, NOTHING would happen. Nothing should have happened here.

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Originally Posted by thebigmole View Post
What I wrote about your work situation is what came off in your previous post. Had you elaborated more like you did in this post then I wouldn't have said what I said. I don't personally like to hear about people sexual exploits however I don't think that you would have as much as a problem with it if he was straight. Also I don't get the 16 year old comment. I mean I'm in college and trust me that's the way 20 year old guys act as well.
Well next time ask for more information, it is always better then speculating. It wouldn't have bothered me as much if he were straight, but I would have still had a problem with it because I prefer no BS during the work hours.
   
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Re: Man Fired For Expressing Opinion About Gay Marriage - December 5th 2009, 04:12 AM

I'm a bit unsure on my response because there's only my inference I can make about the situation and that the only information is one-sided. With that said, he said that he views homosexuality as amoral behavior due to his beliefs, however, I think it's more amoral to project your views onto someone else. He also doesn't seem to realize that although there is Freedom of Speech, the manager has done nothing to intentionally offend him and yet instead of carrying on with his day and letting the manager be happy about her female fiance, he decides that he needs to speak up.

Later, he mentioned how his company has policies against harassment, however, I fail to see where the harassment occurs. The individuals clearly were unaware of his views prior to discussing them around him so I see no harassment there. Apparently he felt that since he knew his beliefs then they should have cleared it with him first before discussing it.

I don't believe it's true that he merely disagreed seeing as how he kept on tossing out how he seems to feel in the right and that people should have respected his beliefs yet apparently he doesn't have to respect theirs. I think he was probably fired not for stating his belief but more out of sheer ignorance and hostility because he is basically saying that a) her behavior is bad, b) her beliefs are bad and c) he is not bad, he is good. I presume that in the video he is trying to be more civil yet even so, I find it hard to believe he was that civil when the actual incident took place.

Further, the company is right, he is going to need to deal with homosexual people at some point and since he is unable to go for one day without telling them how they are such awful people, then it's reasonable to assume he would be like that around customers and other employees.

Overall, I'd say I'd probably give him a warning, however, if he was warned before and continued it, then he'd be infringing upon the company's policies (depending on what they stated) and he'd be a liability for the company. But even if he was a liability based on his beliefs, it still seems wrong to fire him for them. If he went around and began preaching to homosexual customers, calling them awful and so forth, then I could understand why he'd be fired but he didn't do that.

It's a hard one to decide because if he isn't fired, then chances are he'd be amoral by calling others amoral due to one characteristic, however, when he is fired, then it also seems amoral on the account of the person who fired him. It's a matter of which is less amoral.
   
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Re: Man Fired For Expressing Opinion About Gay Marriage - December 5th 2009, 05:58 AM

I think that he could have expressed himself differently, personally. Rather than saying how it's wrong to have such a lifestyle, he very well could have just said "I'm not really comfortable discussing this" and left it at that. It wasn't really necessary to go on a personal level and say that it was wrong. Granted, she was already on a personal level when she kept mentioning it, but even so.

Should he have got fired for it? No, I don't think so. A warning or reminder would have been enough.



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