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Exclamation Countdown to Copenhagen! - December 3rd 2009, 04:19 AM

As you may have heard there's a rather large meeting in Copenhagen between world leaders and delegates from almost every country on the planet.

What's it about?
Climate talks will be held in Copenhagen, Denmark between all members of the United Nations - which is 192 out of 195 countries.
The number of leaders planning to come to the December 7-18 talks has risen to 98 (possibly 99) out of the 192 members of the United Nations. Most world leaders will attend on last two days of the talks, except President Obama, who will attend on December 9th, on his way to Oslo pick up some prize. :/

Why is it a big deal?
Many scientists believe this is the last chance we (as humans) have to do something about climate change.


Islands are already disappearing and some of these nations, such as the Maldives are now carbon neutral as a result. These island nations will need to evacuated before 2050 if the IPCC's predictions prove true. Although, Dr. James Lovelock's predictions are much worse, which is discomforting considering he's a climate maverick, inventor, and the most important scientific thinker alive (he's done for Climate Science what Einstein and Newton did for Physics).
These predictions, of a 6c rise by 2100 are why there is a need for action. There are two choices we currently have:
  1. Do nothing.
  2. Do all we can, now.
What are the consequences of these two choices?
Say we do nothing, and the worst predictions are true, we will be unprepared and social and economic collapse would occur in a heartbeat. It will become the survival of the fittest and there will likely be climate wars.
We do nothing, it doesn't happen - HAPPY DAYS!
We do all we can and it IS true, we are as prepared as possible and strong enough to tackle whatever nature throw's at us - we can survive, even though socially and economically strained beyond comprehension.
We do all we can and....! Nothing. Ooops! Massive cost, for what? Nothing, although we are being very nice to the planet.

Which is more of a risk to you?

THIS is why it's a big deal: what happens at the coming climate talks has the potential to change the course of the human race 50 years down the line. Also, we cannot be certain of anything! Gamble with the future of a race? Hmm.


What are they aiming for?
They are aiming to do as much as possible, but as often is with politics, some countries will refuse to climb aboard until another country does first. The current argument between industrializing nations such as China and India, is that the developed countries who went through the same process had no restrictions and it's their fault emissions have risen so much and they aren't doing enough themselves to be 'cleaner'.
Developed countries counter with "we need everyone on board for this to make a difference" and the US & Canada often refuse to agree upon a deal until India and China do, these are the largest polluters in the world, following one another and getting nowhere. This is what worries many, as if that happens in Copenhagen, a lot will have been lost.

Climate scientists are convinced the world must stop the growth in greenhouse gas emissions and start making them fall very soon. To have a chance of keeping warming under the dangerous 2C mark, cuts of 25%-40% relative to 1990 levels are needed, rising to 80%-95% by 2050. So far, the offers on the table are way below these targets.


A campaign called "TckTckTck" is gaining much recognition for it's huge efforts to get us, the voters, the public, the people who put the world leaders into power, to sign their name saying "I am ready for our leaders to sign a global climate deal in Copenhagen that is fair, ambitious and binding."
To date, 9.91 MILLION people from every country on the planet have signed their name. I ask you, Are You Ready?
A collection of celebrities - TV Presenters, Singers, Actors/Actresses and even choir's have collaborated on a song to accompany the campaign, although it has not been greatly publicized. Click here, for the video.


More information:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/copenhagen

http://www.grist.org/article/2009-11...climate-change

Campaign sites:
http://www.tcktcktck.org
http://www.sealthedeal2009.org/
http://www.timeforclimatejustice.org/

http://www.wwf.ca/conservation/globa...2009/new_deal/ - This is a good read.
http://www.notstupid.org

How important do you think the talks are? Are you moved enough to sign your name? Do you think humans have really pulled the trigger to climate change that will push us to the brink of extinction? If not, what convinces you that we haven't?


How can you make a difference? Sign, subscribe to channels, follow campaigns on Twitter and Facebook, invite friends, listen to the song and download it for FREE. It's really that simple!


What doesn't kill you makes you stronger and wiser, that in itself, is worth the fight.

The best way to predict the future is to create it - Peter F. Drucker

The greatest glory in living lies not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall. - Nelson Mandela



Last edited by CompassionateSoul; December 3rd 2009 at 04:31 AM. Reason: Links added.
   
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Re: Countdown to Copenhagen! - December 3rd 2009, 05:33 AM

Very much looking forward to seeing what comes of this. Here's hoping for a better tomorrow!


The atoms that make up you and me were born in the hearts of suns many times greater than ours, and in time our atoms will once again reside amongst the stars. Life is but an idle dalliance of the cosmos, frail, and soon forgotten. We have been set adrift in an ocean whose tides we are only beginning to comprehend and with that maturity has come the realization that we are, at least for now, alone. In that loneliness, it falls to us to shine as brightly as the stars from which we came.
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Re: Countdown to Copenhagen! - December 12th 2009, 02:35 AM

Some more information on this.

The meeting is called COP15 - The 15th "Conference of the Parties", held by the UNFCC - United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, who are informed by the IPCC - Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. "The IPCC assesses the scientific, technical and socio-economic information relevant for the understanding of the risk of human-induced climate change."

120 of the 192 world leaders are now attending the end of the summit in Copenhagen.
The UN are allowing activists into the Bella Center, which of course means trouble! Activists were most of the audience of a speech by Lord Monckton, and erupted in chanting with banners etc. Lord Monckton has got himself into a little bother by calling a Jewish climate change protester a member of the “Hitler Youth”. Yes, that is the headline, and what was heard on the video of it.
Oops!

Thousands of activists are arriving in Copenhagen next week. I'm not sure it will make much difference, although an interview with the UK Environment Minister assures one that the public can have an influence on the outcome, but putting pressure on their world leaders. There aren't many days left to do that though! If you know how to go about doing it...


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Re: Countdown to Copenhagen! - December 12th 2009, 05:22 AM

I vote for option 1) do nothing. : )

Personally I boil this whole thing down to money. People want to make money off a global warming scare. Personally I don’t think this should pass. But you already know how I feel Phil. <3




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Re: Countdown to Copenhagen! - December 13th 2009, 04:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizzie View Post

Personally I boil this whole thing down to money. People want to make money off a global warming scare.
These climate talks are not about anyone making money. Heads of state have nothing to financially gain from it, they're trying to agree on international legislation and targets.
With that many world leaders there in the same place (later this week) it's the biggest meeting of all the world leaders in history. Yet, the media is barely reporting on it, many people don't realise how big the summit is.

100,000 people lined the streets of Copenhagen and over 3,000 towns and cities around the world this weekend, all holding a lit candle. Pretty big demonstration! With activists and NGO's allowed in the "Fresh Air' Centre in Copenhagen, world leaders are seeing reports and images from it all, which I think is pretty cool. Some rather passionate individuals get to 'stuff it under the noses' of world leaders!


This is a powerful plea by an Environment Minister from Tuvalu.


What doesn't kill you makes you stronger and wiser, that in itself, is worth the fight.

The best way to predict the future is to create it - Peter F. Drucker

The greatest glory in living lies not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall. - Nelson Mandela



Last edited by CompassionateSoul; December 13th 2009 at 05:04 PM. Reason: Added Link.
   
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Copenhagen Climate Summit - December 19th 2009, 02:28 AM

Quote:
National leaders and sleep-deprived negotiators thrashed out a text late last night that could determine the balance of power in the world and possibly the future of our species. The list below gives a breakdown of the key points:
Temperature
"The increase in global temperature should be below two degrees."
This will disappoint the 100-plus nations who wanted a lower maximum of 1.5C, including many small island states who fear that even at this level their homes may be submerged.
Peak date for carbon emissions
"We should co-operate in achieving the peaking of global and national emissions as soon as possible, recognising that the time frame for peaking will be longer in developing countries …" This vague phrase is a disappointment to those who want nations to set a date for emissions to fall, but will please developing countries who want to put the economy first.
Emissions cuts
"Parties commit to implement individually or jointly the quantified economy-wide emissions targets for 2020 as listed in appendix 1 before 1 February 2010."
This phrase commits developed nations to start work almost immediately on reaching their mid-term targets. For the US, this is a weak 14-17% reduction on 2005 levels; for the EU, a still-to-be-determined goal of 20-30% on 1990 levels; for Japan, 25% and Russia 15-25% on 1990 levels. The accord makes no mention of 2050 targets, which dropped out of the text over the course of the day.
Forests
"Substantial finance to prevent deforestation; adaptation, technology development and transfer and capacity."
This is crucial because more than 15% of emissions are attributed to the clearing of forests. Conservation groups are concerned that this phrase lacks safeguards.
Money
"The collective commitment by developed countries is to provide new and additional resources amounting to $30bn for 2010-12 … Developed countries set a goal of mobilising jointly $100bn a year by 2020 to address needs of developing countries."
This is the cash that oils the deal. The first section is a quick financial injection from rich nations to support developing countries' efforts. Longer term, a far larger sum of money will be committed to a Copenhagen Green Climate Fund. But the agreement leaves open the questions of where the money will come from, and how it will be used.
Key elements of earlier drafts dropped during yesterday's negotiations:
An attempt to replace Kyoto
"Affirming our firm resolve to adopt one or more legal instruments …"
This preamble, killed off during the day, was the biggest obstacle for negotiators. It left open the question of whether to continue a twin-track process that maintains Kyoto, or whether to adopt a single agreement. Europe, Japan, Australia and Canada are desperate to move to a one-track approach, but developing nations refused to kill off the protocol.
Deadline for a treaty
"… as soon as possible and no later than COP16 …"
This appeared in the morning draft and disappeared during the day; it set a December 2010 date for the conclusion of a legally binding treaty. The final text drops this date, but small print suggests it will still be next year
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...xt-was-changed

Quote:
The blame game over the failure of the Copenhagen climate talks started last night with countries accusing each other of a complete lack of willingness to compromise.
The G77 group of 130 developing nations blamed Obama for "locking the poor into permanent poverty by refusing to reduce US emissions further."
"Today's events are the worst development for climate change in history," said a spokesperson.
Pablo Solon, Bolivian ambassador to the UN, blamed the Danish hosts for convening only a small group of countries to prepare a text to put before world leaders. "This is completely unacceptable. How can it be that 25 to 30 nations cook up an agreement that excludes the majority of the 190 nations."
But rich countries said that developing countries had wasted too much time on "process" rather than the substance of the talks. An epic stand-off over whether to ditch the Kyoto protocol's legal distinctions between developed and developing countries and their obligations to cut their emissions caused a huge delay to the negotiations.
But Martin Khor, director of the South Centre, an intergovernmental think tank for developing countries said, "Developing countries are very disappointed because they've invested a lot of time in the documents they're negotiating here."
Politicians from all corners of the world were blamed widely for not setting ambitious enough targets to counter climate change. "They refused to lead and instead sought to bribe and bully developing nations to sign up to the equivalent of a death warrant. The best outcome now is no deal," said Tim Jones, climate policy officer from the World Development Movement.
China's prime minister, Wen Jiabao, blamed a lack of trust between countries: "To meet the climate change challenge, the international community must strengthen confidence, build consensus, make vigorous efforts and enhance co-operation."
But indigenous Bolivian president Evo Morales blamed capitalism and the US. "The meeting has failed. It's unfortunate for the planet. The fault is with the lack of political will by a small group of countries led by the US," he said.
Even veterans of previous environmental negotiations were disappointed. "Given where we started and the expectations for this conference, anything less than a legally binding and agreed outcome falls far short of the mark," said John Ashe, chair of the Kyoto protocol talks.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...gen-blame-game




How does everyone feel about the talks that occured on climate change in Copenhagen?
   
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Re: Countdown to Copenhagen! - December 19th 2009, 06:18 PM

I'm disappointed that nothing substantial happened with these talks.

How are they going to regulate temperature increases from different countries, and how are they going to enforce it?

I don't blame the poorer nations from rejecting the deal. They need to focus on emission levels, which is something that can be measured, and is more specific than temperature change. Also not surprising that China is aiming for a lowering a carbon intensity rather than a reduction.

Whether people believe in climate change or not, you do have to take notice when countries such as Tuvalu are endangered to possible flooding.
   
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Re: Copenhagen Climate Summit - December 20th 2009, 09:41 PM

It's heartbreaking in a way.

Climate science is proven but with all of the misinformation, distortion and political bias and vested interests of the media and some scientists the public has been confused.
There's widely accepted science that proves climate change, and global warming. Not many know that Global Warming CAUSES Climate Change. Basic atmospheric science and meteorology can explain both. Neither is a theory or hypothesis, there is nothing to deny! Humans contribute to it, how can we not? Do we cause it? Not on our own, but we have recently tipped the scales and so we are the main cause now. So many people don't understand why we've tipped the scales, or how, but it's basic atmospheric science.

Also, many either don't know or don't care that the same PR companies hired to tell the public smoking was not harmful to one's health, have been hired by energy companies, etc to do the same for global warming/climate change - it's not us, it's natural, etc. Surely this raises a red flag?

Yes there are alarmists/extremists, but when it comes to climate change, they aren't far off. The IPCC's (yes that is a credible source, it's part of the UNFCC - probably the most credible on the planet) predictions for a 6c rise in global temperatures are the most conservative predictions one can make for 6c.



As for the treaty, it's not legally binding, so it's made very little difference to anything, it's politically binding. Anything political is vague and not set in stone, so does it [really] exist? If they want it to?

Why is important for it to be legally binding? Well, imagine a climate change treaty like this:

Quote:
Legally binding simply means that one agrees with the terms under a written or spoken contract to behave in certain ways. The terms and conditions of such a contract can either prohibit or define appropriate behavior under the agreement. Violation of terms in a legally binding agreement can either void the contract, or cause legal repercussions.
Which would mean the worlds largest polluters per person (of the developed countries: US, Canada and Australia) would be sanctioned by the UN for not meeting targets. Which is as it should be, right? That would mean Canada would not be able to get away with abandoning the treaty after over-shooting targets (as they did with Kyoto). Instead of reducing their emissions, Canada let them rise 26%, overtaking the UK in CO2 emissions, and Canada has just over half the people (33.31 million in Canada vs. 61.39 million - 2008 estimates).

When is it okay to make an agreement, then ignore it?


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Re: Countdown to Copenhagen! - December 20th 2009, 09:57 PM

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Originally Posted by Trickmatic View Post

How are they going to regulate temperature increases from different countries, and how are they going to enforce it?

The UN enforces it. "United Nations-based bodies review and enforce these commitments" - for the Kyoto Protocol, and they do so with each protocol agreed upon (I'm unaware of the name the COP-15 agreement has been given, but as it's not legally binding, I doubt it will become a protocol).

More information here: http://www.globalgovernancewatch.org...nge-regulation

Regulating temperatures is fairly simple with the number of meteorological/climate research stations in each country, independent or government-run.


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Re: Countdown to Copenhagen! - December 21st 2009, 04:34 AM

Although I find the climate summit interesting, it didn't really accomplish that much. I'm sure it did some good, but it doesn't really help some of the poorer nations, especailly since they need lower emissions levels and such.


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