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The Great Music Debate Thread! - December 22nd 2009, 03:09 PM

Hi folks,

So this is going to be a highly opinionated debate, in which everyone is free to express themselves. I understand people feel passionately about the music they listen to and whatnot, but I guess the underlying question is why? I also understand that it is likely I or others may say things that some people may deem "offensive" but please approach this with a neutral mind.
Anyway, I feel like this will develop over time, if people reply.

So:

Argument 1
- All rap and hip-hop music being produced today is horrible. None of the artists who are producing nowadays have any vocal talent whatsoever and rely on Auto-Tune to save themselves. The music used in rap and hip-hop isn't even "music" but just premade sample beats looped over and over and over again. All rap music uses the same beat structure and whatnot. It's all contrived by the Big 4 Music Groups just to make money.

Bring the heat! Agree/disagree/give another argument.
   
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Re: The Great Music Debate Thread! - December 22nd 2009, 03:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by icedoverfire View Post
Argument 1 - All rap and hip-hop music being produced today is horrible. None of the artists who are producing nowadays have any vocal talent whatsoever and rely on Auto-Tune to save themselves. The music used in rap and hip-hop isn't even "music" but just premade sample beats looped over and over and over again. All rap music uses the same beat structure and whatnot. It's all contrived by the Big 4 Music Groups just to make money.
I wouldn't say all - however many rap artists don't produce good material past their first album, which is slowly destroying the genre IMO. Rap relies on linguistic not vocal talent. AutoTune is destroying pop music, but not rap - creative AutoTune is fine. Premade samples exist in a lot of contemporary music - House for example used to be entirely made up of pre-released songs. A lot of types of music use the same beat structure - how many genres nowadays use something other than 4/4? I agree with the money issue.
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Re: The Great Music Debate Thread! - December 22nd 2009, 04:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by icedoverfire View Post
Hi folks,
Argument 1
- All rap and hip-hop music being produced today is horrible. None of the artists who are producing nowadays have any vocal talent whatsoever and rely on Auto-Tune to save themselves. The music used in rap and hip-hop isn't even "music" but just premade sample beats looped over and over and over again. All rap music uses the same beat structure and whatnot. It's all contrived by the Big 4 Music Groups just to make money.
A lot of mainstream rap is like that. However, you'll find things like Jay-Z, Nas, Eminem, Jedi Mind aren't really "cookie cutter rap". Southern/West coat tends to be more "hurr durr buy you a drank" while east coast is darker and more... refined lets say.

Soldja boy and Lil Wayne are not rappers btw. They take dumps next to microphones, which is then sold by record companies to sheltered white children who think it's cool to be "gangster"

Argument 2- Most Disney music stars are untalented, overhyped, over payed, and not worth 1/4 of the popularity and attention they receive.


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Re: The Great Music Debate Thread! - December 22nd 2009, 04:36 PM

Quote:
Argument 1 - All rap and hip-hop music being produced today is horrible. None of the artists who are producing nowadays have any vocal talent whatsoever and rely on Auto-Tune to save themselves. The music used in rap and hip-hop isn't even "music" but just premade sample beats looped over and over and over again. All rap music uses the same beat structure and whatnot. It's all contrived by the Big 4 Music Groups just to make money.
Imma have to agree on this one, and just slightly disagree. Making loops can require some creative ability. I'll give em' that. It's not everyday that someone can make a beat that flows good with the song. But that's all I'm gonna give them. I don't mind stuff like Beyonce or actual singers who have talent. I think that rap is music, but I don't think rappers deserve as much money as they get. I would understand a 150k-200k salary for rappers, but nothing more than that. They don't deserve millions of dollars just because they can make beats and rap. Even Elton John can rhyme, and he doesn't even make his own lyrics most of the time. I mean, there's not a show on television called "So, you think you can rap?"
   
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Re: The Great Music Debate Thread! - December 22nd 2009, 05:10 PM

@Brandon: Yes I agree with you that making loops requires creativity and I also agree that some of the singers out there are definitely talented, but what about the fact that most lyrics are all saying the same thing in one form or another?

Quote:
Argument 2- Most Disney music stars are untalented, overhyped, over payed, and not worth 1/4 of the popularity and attention they receive.
@TigerTank77: Yes I agree with you on this one - but do you think that it might be reflective of a larger trend in music that the industry is just releasing whatever will make a quick buck and not really giving any though to legitimate quality/longevity?

Argument 3 - If we say that rap music uses the same beat structure/is basically looped samples then we can say that music like dance/trance/techno are the same thing - looped samples. Why do you think it's the case that trance/techno/dance is way more popular over in Europe and why it won't really catch on here?

Last edited by icedoverfire; December 22nd 2009 at 05:11 PM. Reason: 100th post!
   
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Re: The Great Music Debate Thread! - December 22nd 2009, 05:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by icedoverfire View Post

Argument 1
- All rap and hip-hop music being produced today is horrible. None of the artists who are producing nowadays have any vocal talent whatsoever and rely on Auto-Tune to save themselves. The music used in rap and hip-hop isn't even "music" but just premade sample beats looped over and over and over again. All rap music uses the same beat structure and whatnot. It's all contrived by the Big 4 Music Groups just to make money.

Bring the heat! Agree/disagree/give another argument.
I agree that the musical talent is very limited but in some cases, depending on the artist, the lyrics and rapping can be quite good. Many artists claim to be gangsters, living in the ghetto, the hood and so forth, describing how hard and dangerous it is. Despite that, they earn millions. Others who rap about money, drugs or women I don't usually care for because it's done over and over and over to a point where there becomes little variety among those artists. This isn't to say that these rappers are all bad but rather that even if they're quite good, it gets a bit boring because a bunch of others do the exact same thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerTank77 View Post
Argument 2- Most Disney music stars are untalented, overhyped, over payed, and not worth 1/4 of the popularity and attention they receive.
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by icedoverfire View Post
Argument 3 - If we say that rap music uses the same beat structure/is basically looped samples then we can say that music like dance/trance/techno are the same thing - looped samples. Why do you think it's the case that trance/techno/dance is way more popular over in Europe and why it won't really catch on here?
I thought that trance or dance or techno was about equal in popularity in North American and Europe. I'll have to give thought to this one.
   
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Re: The Great Music Debate Thread! - December 22nd 2009, 06:22 PM

Quote:
Yes I agree with you that making loops requires creativity and I also agree that some of the singers out there are definitely talented, but what about the fact that most lyrics are all saying the same thing in one form or another?
Well, that's how business is. The music industry is a business. Rap talks mostly about the same things because it's targeting the same audience. Look at Taylor Swift...she mostly sings about the same thing (something about a boy). Is it not true that we can enjoy a song more if it's about our beliefs, our opinions, or our experiences? These days, I listen to a lot of rock instrumentals like Joe Satriani, John Petrucci, even Santana...and they aren't lyrics songs. I listen to them because it brings a lot of emotion into the song. "Cry guitar, cry" they say. Rap isn't any different -- it's a genre that millions of people enjoy because it brings them emotion. You can't honestly expect someone who's lived in a poor and dangerous neighborhood to listen end up listening to rock. I guess it just depends on our environment.
   
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Re: The Great Music Debate Thread! - December 22nd 2009, 06:40 PM

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Argument 2- Most Disney music stars are untalented, overhyped, over payed, and not worth 1/4 of the popularity and attention they receive.
Not quite addressing this, but I'd like to illustrate how Disney views the music business.

The Jonas Brothers recorded their debut album with a recording engineer and a mixing engineer (forgotten their names, sorry) who were working together in different locations, collaborating via Skype. Now they could have gone the analog big-old-expensive way, but since they were working together "digitally" over the internet, they said why not do everything digitally? (ie on PC). Now all was fine, the album was recorded, mixed and about to be printed when Disney rang and asked to change some of the lyrics.

I'll repeat that - they were completely done and Disney weren't happy about some of the lyrics so they asked them to change them.

Luckily they were able to just record a few extra words and drop them straight in on the PC - but they were left wondering to themselves, if they had gone the usual route, what would they have had to do? They would have had to entirely redo the songs.

No music company does what Disney does. Not one.
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Re: The Great Music Debate Thread! - December 22nd 2009, 06:55 PM

Just off the top of my head:

Foreign Beggars
Lethal Bizzle
JME
Skepta

All ridiculously good and part of the N. London grime rap scene.

Every genre is respectable, except Christian Rock and Happy Hardcore. Rap is all beats, it's really amazing. The lyrics are definitely not all the same, at least not moreso than the shitty post-grunge and pop-punk that infests our country.


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Re: The Great Music Debate Thread! - December 22nd 2009, 07:31 PM

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Every genre is respectable, except Christian Rock and Happy Hardcore.
Note: When talking about music tastes, never say "all.... except..."
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Re: The Great Music Debate Thread! - December 22nd 2009, 08:04 PM

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Note: When talking about music tastes, never say "all.... except..."
Okey doke. Anything else you'd like to add?


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Re: The Great Music Debate Thread! - December 22nd 2009, 08:13 PM

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Okey doke. Anything else you'd like to add?
lol no seriously you'd be surprised how many people say "I like all music. Except rap of course. And pop. And dance with female vocalists. And commercial rock, oh and I hate bands that pretend they're "underground", and...." Seriously it's easier just to stick to absolutes.
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Re: The Great Music Debate Thread! - December 22nd 2009, 08:30 PM

I know, I don't like all music though. I like certain bands of certain genres. People who say they like all music generally don't listen to music a lot.


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Re: The Great Music Debate Thread! - December 22nd 2009, 09:31 PM

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I wouldn't say all - however many rap artists don't produce good material past their first album, which is slowly destroying the genre IMO. Rap relies on linguistic not vocal talent. AutoTune is destroying pop music, but not rap - creative AutoTune is fine. Premade samples exist in a lot of contemporary music - House for example used to be entirely made up of pre-released songs. A lot of types of music use the same beat structure - how many genres nowadays use something other than 4/4? I agree with the money issue.

There are a several rock bands that regularly walk away from 4/4 that I really like such as Dream Theater, Tool, and 30 Seconds to Mars.

As for the other arguments... I'm not really a fan of rap or Disney, so I'd have to agree with you guys.


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Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. ~Dr. Seuss


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Re: The Great Music Debate Thread! - December 22nd 2009, 10:15 PM

Good points all. Keep 'em coming!

New discussion point:

Argument 4 - Stage antics have gotten way out of hand (take Lady GaGa/Adam Lambert's recent performances as an example), why all the needless attention-mongering?
   
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Re: The Great Music Debate Thread! - December 22nd 2009, 10:29 PM

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Argument 4 - Stage antics have gotten way out of hand (take Lady GaGa/Adam Lambert's recent performances as an example), why all the needless attention-mongering?
Because it gets them more media attention, which makes them more popular, which in turn sells more of their "music", which in turn makes them and the record companies richer.
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Re: The Great Music Debate Thread! - December 22nd 2009, 11:37 PM

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Originally Posted by icedoverfire View Post
Good points all. Keep 'em coming!

New discussion point:

Argument 4 - Stage antics have gotten way out of hand (take Lady GaGa/Adam Lambert's recent performances as an example), why all the needless attention-mongering?
They haven't gotten out of hand, just extremely crap for the most part. And also I'd say they need all the attention because there music is nothing special, or pretty much the same as many others music.
   
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Re: The Great Music Debate Thread! - December 22nd 2009, 11:59 PM

Quote:
Argument 1 - All rap and hip-hop music being produced today is horrible. None of the artists who are producing nowadays have any vocal talent whatsoever and rely on Auto-Tune to save themselves. The music used in rap and hip-hop isn't even "music" but just premade sample beats looped over and over and over again. All rap music uses the same beat structure and whatnot. It's all contrived by the Big 4 Music Groups just to make money.
Agreed that quite a few artists lack vocal talent.. or any musical talent, for that matter.. the industryís been promoting trash-for-cash albums lately. Which is sad, because the industryís no longer about producing good music; itís about signing artists who appeal to listeners, and artists who are going to sell. There are decent artists out there, though. Not every rap and hip-hop artist relies on Auto-Tune.. and as for the beat, very few artists use anything besides 4/4.

Quote:
Argument 2- Most Disney music stars are untalented, overhyped, over payed, and not worth 1/4 of the popularity and attention they receive.
I canít argue with this.. Disney is another company that promotes what sells. Musicís not about music anymore, itís about money..


Something that gets me is that if you look at charts for songs from say, the 40s and 50s, youíll find the chords are much more complex than whatís used now, the songs change keys multiple times, etc. Many artists now just use a few basic major and minor chords and repeat them throughout the song Ė Coldplay does that, for example. Thereís less variety than there used to be.



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Re: The Great Music Debate Thread! - December 23rd 2009, 12:14 AM

Umm...Flaming Lips do crazy concerts! And Wayne Coyne crowd surfs in a huge bubble.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4frLhgF0YQ4

Saw them this summer, but I wasn't close enough to touch the bubble. One of the most memorable moments of my life. Definitely cool, I don't care enough about Gaga or the other guy to know about their stage antics.


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Re: The Great Music Debate Thread! - December 23rd 2009, 12:23 AM

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Agreed that quite a few artists lack vocal talent.. or any musical talent, for that matter.. the industry’s been promoting trash-for-cash albums lately. Which is sad, because the industry’s no longer about producing good music; it’s about signing artists who appeal to listeners, and artists who are going to sell. There are decent artists out there, though. Not every rap and hip-hop artist relies on Auto-Tune.. and as for the beat, very few artists use anything besides 4/4.
In all fairness, most record labels throughout history aimed to make money, simply so they could stay in business. Only a select few like Factory Records, Rough Trade Records, etc. really focused on the musical output rather than how much it would sell.


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Re: The Great Music Debate Thread! - December 23rd 2009, 10:04 AM

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Argument 4 - Stage antics have gotten way out of hand (take Lady GaGa/Adam Lambert's recent performances as an example), why all the needless attention-mongering?
Because the artists or bands want to be successful. If they tour and if their tours become boring and crappy, not only will people stop going but their album sales will plummet. It's not meant to usually be a concert whereby the audience sits nice and quiet cross-legged, it's meant to have energy and the more energy the band provides, the more energy the crowd provides. This can also allow for larger recording companies to make deals with the band and for the band to tour with other well-known bands.
   
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Re: The Great Music Debate Thread! - December 23rd 2009, 02:23 PM

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There are a several rock bands that regularly walk away from 4/4 that I really like such as Dream Theater, Tool, and 30 Seconds to Mars.
Yes, but it is rare. Uncommon timings only really exist in Prog, some Metal and the two oddball genres Math and Post-rock. Actually I think I've only ever heard of one dance track that was in 6/8, should track it down....
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Re: The Great Music Debate Thread! - December 25th 2009, 04:05 PM

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Just off the top of my head:

Foreign Beggars
Lethal Bizzle
JME
Skepta

All ridiculously good and part of the N. London grime rap scene.

Every genre is respectable, except Christian Rock and Happy Hardcore. Rap is all beats, it's really amazing. The lyrics are definitely not all the same, at least not moreso than the shitty post-grunge and pop-punk that infests our country.
Christian rock can be really good. The Devil Wears Prada, Haste The Day, Attack Attack!, and Anberlin, are all pretty good.
Post-grunge and pop-punk also are good... Sum 41, blink-182, Three Days Grace, Breaking Benjamin...

And I have absolutely no idea what Happy Hardcore is. Can you give me some examples?




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Re: The Great Music Debate Thread! - December 25th 2009, 05:02 PM

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And I have absolutely no idea what Happy Hardcore is. Can you give me some examples?
To vulgarize it completely, Emo music. In reality it's a fairly old genre stretching back to the dying days of punk, but usually the term is used to describe the new wave of screamo metal bands. The main problem with happy hardcore is that fans are essentially unsure what happy hardcore is, actually I've never met two happy hardcore fans who described it in the same way.

[EDIT] wait you like Enter Shikari and you don't know what happy hardcore is? what???
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Re: The Great Music Debate Thread! - December 26th 2009, 12:16 AM

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[EDIT] wait you like Enter Shikari and you don't know what happy hardcore is? what???
Is that considered happy hardcore? I didn't know. I just thought it was screamo or regular hardcore...




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Re: The Great Music Debate Thread! - December 26th 2009, 03:09 AM

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Christian rock can be really good. The Devil Wears Prada, Haste The Day, Attack Attack!, and Anberlin, are all pretty good.
Post-grunge and pop-punk also are good... Sum 41, blink-182, Three Days Grace, Breaking Benjamin...

And I have absolutely no idea what Happy Hardcore is. Can you give me some examples?
No no no no no no no...I like DWR...Christian Rock is much different from bands that happen to be Christian. Christian Rock is basically worship music.

There is some bearable pop-punk and I don't listen to enough post-grunge to know the whole genre (?). But none of it in the mainstream...yuck

Happy Hardcore = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqO3t9rp0U8


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Re: The Great Music Debate Thread! - December 26th 2009, 03:23 AM

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Okay, how the hell can someone call this anything related hardcore? It's friggen dance music! It's not horrible, but the genre of hardcore is definitely not this... That's like the English version of J-pop...




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Cool Re: The Great Music Debate Thread! - December 26th 2009, 03:39 AM

To sooth my mind, music with lyrics must have a message i can agree with, and words i can understand as i listen. If the music is going to be popularized over a mass mainstream audience there has to be some code of ethics governing the message given, to restrict at the very least the industry to provide messages aligned towards the values of the audience we want, not the audience which would provide the most income. The reason is, if the music is mainly directed to the criminal element it is through crime the money would be coming from, by encouraging people who commit acts of theft and using the proceeds towards purchasing music from the industry. Lets lose the gangster rap, it serves us poorly. And perhaps if by removing the name Rap from the music which is of value currently considered 'rap', we can put the debate to rest.
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Re: The Great Music Debate Thread! - December 26th 2009, 01:03 PM

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Is that considered happy hardcore? I didn't know. I just thought it was screamo or regular hardcore...
No, Hardcore is a maaaassive genre - this is probably one of it's better incarnations. The term isn't used that much as it really doesn't imply anything other than screaming and a lack of subtlety, also it's often confused with the other Hardcore which is a form of dance music (confusing non?).

DoubleX - yes, OK, that is happy hardcore, but a more chipmunk-rave-happy-hardcore than screamo-metal-happy-hardcore....

now even I'm confused....
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Re: The Great Music Debate Thread! - December 26th 2009, 02:27 PM

I just use wikipedia definitions - as there is no set in stone description for any genre. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_hardcore


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Re: The Great Music Debate Thread! - December 26th 2009, 04:32 PM

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I just use wikipedia definitions - as there is no set in stone description for any genre. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_hardcore
I'm not contesting the definition, it's just there are two separate definitions in place. Long live compartmentalism....
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Re: The Great Music Debate Thread! - December 26th 2009, 06:26 PM

Really, in all honesty, I don't keep track of genres. I listen to the bands that I like and that's that...




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Re: The Great Music Debate Thread! - December 28th 2009, 02:29 AM

Argument 5: Yeah, music (and the music industry) has changed since the dawn of music 150,000 (or so) years ago. No, it probably won't go "back", it'll most likely continue to change. This is not necessarily a bad thing. The way the music industry works

Argument 6: There are many, many, many genres of music. There's punk, pop-punk, proto-punk, grunge, post-grunge, dance, techno, rap, hip-hop, R & B, pop, powerpop, rock, metal, emo, screamo, hardcore, happy hardcore, latin, reggaeton, space rock, alternative, classical, jazz, and many more. Each of these genres has things about it that some people like, and some people don't. For instant, I like how pop-punk music is fun, simple, and so very "adolescent"; some people hate that. The fact that I like pop-punk doesn't mean that it's the best genre ever; the fact that some people hate it doesn't mean it's the worst genre ever or that it's worthless. People have different tastes in music. I don't particularly care for rap, but that doesn't mean the genre is worthless or stupid. Really. It's possible for people to have different tastes in music. Really.

Argument 7: It's possible for more than one genre to coexist at the same time. Miley Cyrus can coexist with Blink-182 and The Devil Wears Prada. Seriously.

Argument 8: It's also possible for one person to LIKE more than one genre. I like pop-punk but that's not the only thing I listen to.

Argument 9: I know that you find (insert overly popular artist here) annoying, so I've got a solution for you: don't listen to them. Don't listen to (insert "horrible" song here) if you don't like it. If you find it so incredibly annoying that (insert overly popular artist again) is all over the news, then don't read the articles.

Argument 10: Autotune is used on just about every song you'll hear on the radio because guess what? It makes most people sound better. A huge reason a lot of bands "don't sound as good" live is because the autotune isn't being used on the singer's voice (well, there's also horrible live mixes and bad acoustics at some venues, but that's a separate issue). Autotune is "overused" in some cases, but so what? Do you really care that much?

Argument 11: The music business is about money. Musicians want to make money, as do record labels (of course this is more evident in some cases than others). But guess what? Big-budget Hollywood films aren't made to be artsy, wonderful, "interesting" films, they're, um, made to make money. Same goes with the musicians (there are exceptions in both cases; this is just a generalizations).

Yeah. That pretty much sums up my feelings on this issue.


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Re: The Great Music Debate Thread! - December 28th 2009, 03:20 AM

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Good points all. Keep 'em coming!

New discussion point:

Argument 4 - Stage antics have gotten way out of hand (take Lady GaGa/Adam Lambert's recent performances as an example), why all the needless attention-mongering?
Because music isn't what it's supposed to be anymore. The kind of music that tops the charts is provocative and unmoral. It's not about getting real, hopeful messages across to people. It's about getting as much money and fame as possible. It's a popularity contest, and the singers do as much as they possibly can to make the news headlines, and to be gossiped about. And it's not only the music industry to blame - it's the media. They give the attention seekers exactly what they want - attention. By doing so they promote the nonsense. Hey, if I go up on stage and dance around like a hooker and shove a guys head in my crotch then I can be on the cover of Us Weekly! Win! When the media stops obsessing over the idiocy, then they will have less idiocy to obsess over.
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Argument 1 - All rap and hip-hop music being produced today is horrible. None of the artists who are producing nowadays have any vocal talent whatsoever and rely on Auto-Tune to save themselves. The music used in rap and hip-hop isn't even "music" but just premade sample beats looped over and over and over again. All rap music uses the same beat structure and whatnot. It's all contrived by the Big 4 Music Groups just to make money.

This wouldn't be the case if people refused to listen to it. When rock music was popular in the eighties, it was what was most produced. They produce what sells, and for whatever insane reason the people of this generation want to hear sexist crap music. If it can make you money, why not sell it? Who cares if it's offensive or edited or just plain bad, it sells. Music should mean more than money, in my opinion. But apparently nowadays, that's just not the case.

On a side not, there is still quality music out there. If the media were willing to shut their traps about the nonsense, then the bands and musicians who truly deserve the fame and the fans would be the ones who got the attention.





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Re: The Great Music Debate Thread! - December 28th 2009, 05:09 AM

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Originally Posted by NightOfNyx View Post


Because music isn't what it's supposed to be anymore. The kind of music that tops the charts is provocative and unmoral.


Wait, so what is music "supposed" to be, then? Look, music is just a bunch of sounds, organized in a way that is (theoretically) pleasing to the ear. Some of it is good, some of it is not so good. "Provocative and unmoral" doesn't mean music isn't good. Music is supposed to be pleasurable to listen to, and if people like listening to say Lady Gaga, then her music will be popular.

Quote:
It's not about getting real, hopeful messages across to people. It's about getting as much money and fame as possible. It's a popularity contest, and the singers do as much as they possibly can to make the news headlines, and to be gossiped about.
Uh, yeah. The music industry, like every other industry, exists to make money. Not to "get real, hopeful messages across to people". I don't listen to Fall Out Boy because their music has a "real, hopeful message", I listen to them because I think it sounds good. I don't think many people think the Jonas Brothers have some sort of "message" in their music, but that's not the point- the point of popular music is purely to sound good.


Quote:
And it's not only the music industry to blame - it's the media. They give the attention seekers exactly what they want - attention. By doing so they promote the nonsense. Hey, if I go up on stage and dance around like a hooker and shove a guys head in my crotch then I can be on the cover of Us Weekly! Win! When the media stops obsessing over the idiocy, then they will have less idiocy to obsess over.
You have a good point there. Musicians do these things because they want attention, but seriously, do you really think "the media" will ever "stop obsessing over the idiocy"? The whole point of the media (whether it be print newspapers and magazines or online websites and blogs) is to draw attention to things that are deemed "important".

Quote:
This wouldn't be the case if people refused to listen to it. When rock music was popular in the eighties, it was what was most produced. They produce what sells, and for whatever insane reason the people of this generation want to hear sexist crap music. If it can make you money, why not sell it? Who cares if it's offensive or edited or just plain bad, it sells. Music should mean more than money, in my opinion. But apparently nowadays, that's just not the case.
Quote:
On a side not, there is still quality music out there. If the media were willing to shut their traps about the nonsense, then the bands and musicians who truly deserve the fame and the fans would be the ones who got the attention.
This last part kind of makes a lol a little. Uh, what makes you say that (insert insanely popular rapper here)'s music isn't "quality"? Also, what is "quality music" in the first place? I like the song "Josie" by Blink-182. Is it "high quality"? Um, no, the lyrics are simple as is the instrumental. But I like the song. It sounds good to me. I like "Bad Romance" by Lady Gaga. It's a fun song, and I like listening to it. So isn't that (the fact that I LIKE THE SONGS) enough? Does it really matter how "good" (whatever that is) the songs are, so long as I (or we, or the general public, or whatever) like how they sound?


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Re: The Great Music Debate Thread! - December 28th 2009, 06:33 AM

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Wait, so what is music "supposed" to be, then? Look, music is just a bunch of sounds, organized in a way that is (theoretically) pleasing to the ear. Some of it is good, some of it is not so good. "Provocative and unmoral" doesn't mean music isn't good. Music is supposed to be pleasurable to listen to, and if people like listening to say Lady Gaga, then her music will be popular.
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Uh, yeah. The music industry, like every other industry, exists to make money. Not to "get real, hopeful messages across to people". I don't listen to Fall Out Boy because their music has a "real, hopeful message", I listen to them because I think it sounds good. I don't think many people think the Jonas Brothers have some sort of "message" in their music, but that's not the point- the point of popular music is purely to sound good.
So music is just sound, huh? I may be strange, or too sensitive, but music is far more than mere sound to me. Music is far more than sound, or cash, to the people who make it. To me, music is a way to vent, to have myself heard, and to feel that someone out there understands - it's an escape for me. To some people, like yourself, it may be a bunch of notes written down on a piece of paper that eventually is performed and edited, and played on your local radio station. But to me, music is a way of life, and has helped me through my share of hard times. I may sound like a lunatic here, but I'm sure plenty of others will say the same.
Quote:
You have a good point there. Musicians do these things because they want attention, but seriously, do you really think "the media" will ever "stop obsessing over the idiocy"? The whole point of the media (whether it be print newspapers and magazines or online websites and blogs) is to draw attention to things that are deemed "important".
Important? Pssh. Sorry but, bull. Important is the health care plan Obama is trying to pass, recent terrorist threats, and whatever else is going on in our country. Important is the things that affect us throughout our daily lives. At least, these things are much more important than hearing about Miley Cyrus performing on a pole at the Teen Choice Awards, or Kanye West ruining Taylor Swift's speech at the VMA's. Don't even get me started on what SHOULD be in the newspapers. One of the many reasons there are so many ignoration, uninvolved people in the world is because they spend their time catching up on the latest gossip rather than paying attention to what current events truly matter in the world.
Quote:
This last part kind of makes a lol a little. Uh, what makes you say that (insert insanely popular rapper here)'s music isn't "quality"? Also, what is "quality music" in the first place? I like the song "Josie" by Blink-182. Is it "high quality"? Um, no, the lyrics are simple as is the instrumental. But I like the song. It sounds good to me. I like "Bad Romance" by Lady Gaga. It's a fun song, and I like listening to it. So isn't that (the fact that I LIKE THE SONGS) enough? Does it really matter how "good" (whatever that is) the songs are, so long as I (or we, or the general public, or whatever) like how they sound?
By quality I mean music that doesn't talk about going to a strip club and "going down." I mean music that doesn't promote people going off and having one night stands. Would you agree with me in saying that we've turned into a pretty sex crazed nation? I think it's also fair to say that popular music should take a lot of the blame for this. Not only because so many songs have sexist and plain disgusting messages, but because the people who sing those songs behave in disgusting ways as well. You can like how a song like this sounds, but that doesn't mean the lyrics and the messages in the songs are good ones.





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Re: The Great Music Debate Thread! - December 29th 2009, 04:18 PM

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So music is just sound, huh? I may be strange, or too sensitive, but music is far more than mere sound to me. Music is far more than sound, or cash, to the people who make it. To me, music is a way to vent, to have myself heard, and to feel that someone out there understands - it's an escape for me. To some people, like yourself, it may be a bunch of notes written down on a piece of paper that eventually is performed and edited, and played on your local radio station. But to me, music is a way of life, and has helped me through my share of hard times. I may sound like a lunatic here, but I'm sure plenty of others will say the same.


I love music too. I feel the same way you do. But technically, music is just a bunch of sounds, that may or may not sound good. The effect it has on us is absolutely amazing. But all it's made of is sound. Music can effect our emotions, it can be an escape, it can be a way of life. But it's not made of anything magical; it's literally just a bunch of sounds. Personally I think it's kind of cool that sound can have such an effect on us.

Quote:
Important? Pssh. Sorry but, bull. Important is the health care plan Obama is trying to pass, recent terrorist threats, and whatever else is going on in our country. Important is the things that affect us throughout our daily lives. At least, these things are much more important than hearing about Miley Cyrus performing on a pole at the Teen Choice Awards, or Kanye West ruining Taylor Swift's speech at the VMA's. Don't even get me started on what SHOULD be in the newspapers. One of the many reasons there are so many ignoration, uninvolved people in the world is because they spend their time catching up on the latest gossip rather than paying attention to what current events truly matter in the world.
There a lot of ignorant people in the world. But the thing is, the media DOES cover Obama's health care plan, terrorist threats, and other "imporant" things (check out the front page of the New York Times, I guarantee you there's nothing having to do with "stupid celebrity gossip" or whatever). There are just some news outlets that probably cover both. And maybe that's okay. Maybe people want to hear about the "important" things in the world, but they also like to keep up on celebrities. The music industry is huge, which is why it's covered. Also, a lot of the coverage of say the Kanye thing, is in music/gossip magazines/websites, which are dedicated to this kind of thing. Think about it, wouldn't it be weird if MTV.com had articles about terrorist threats, or if Alternative Press started running regular articles about what's going on with Obama's health care plan? It would also be weird if the New York Times started writing about the latest celebrity relationships. Things like Michael Jackson's death get a lot of coverage in major papers because they're huge cultural events; MJ was one of the most (if not THE most) successful solo artists ever, and even though he was perhaps a little nutty, he was an important figure.

I read a lot of "gossip" magazines and music magazines, but I'm not ignorant. I also read a fair amount of "real" media (newspapers/magazines). I like to know what's going on in the world, but I also like to know what's going on in the music industry.

Quote:
By quality I mean music that doesn't talk about going to a strip club and "going down." I mean music that doesn't promote people going off and having one night stands. Would you agree with me in saying that we've turned into a pretty sex crazed nation? I think it's also fair to say that popular music should take a lot of the blame for this. Not only because so many songs have sexist and plain disgusting messages, but because the people who sing those songs behave in disgusting ways as well. You can like how a song like this sounds, but that doesn't mean the lyrics and the messages in the songs are good ones.
Oh, we are absolutely a sex-crazed nation. Is that a good thing? Maybe not. But it is really so bad? ZOMG SEX ZOMG LADY GAGA IS NAKED ZOMG ADAM LAMBERT'S HAVING SEX ON STAGE! ZOMG NO! I don't think it's necessarily that bad. Yes, music probably does play a part in how "sex-crazed" this nation is, but so what? It's not the total cause of it. I mean, sex is a totally natural human behavior. Really.

There is plenty of music that "doesn't promote people going off and having one night stands", for example, Angels & Airwaves, The Jonas Brothers (say whatever you want about them, but they're pretty darn innocent), Justin Bieber (again, whether you like him or not is a different issue- personally I don't, but his music is pretty innocent), U2, Coldplay, Switchfoot, Lifehouse, Paramore, Good Charlotte, Tom Petty, Daughtry, Oasis, Parachute, and that's just off the top of my head.

Also- your last point is a good one, but I'd like to point out that it's possible to like the "message" of a song but not like how it sounds. Does that still mean you "like" the song? Hm. I don't know.


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