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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
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Prop 8 Trial - January 12th 2010, 08:40 PM

Quote:
(CNN) -- The trial to determine the constitutionality of California's same-sex marriage ban, Proposition 8, is being held in San Francisco, one of the most pro-gay marriage venues in the country. This is a decided home-court advantage for those challenging the law and, by implication, the nation's marriage laws.
Judge Vaughn Walker has pushed this case to trial despite many objections from the proponents of Prop 8. Already, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals has been peppered with appeals from the backers of Prop 8 over Walker's procedural rulings, which have significantly tilted the litigation environment in favor of the opponents.
It is virtually unprecedented that Walker is forcing a full-blown trial of this issue.
Either limiting the definition of marriage to one man and one woman is constitutional, or it isn't. This is a question of law. That's why every other challenge to a state marriage law has been decided on the basis of legal precedent, analysis of legislative intent, scholarly analysis and expert reports.
The constitutionality of Proposition 8 does not hinge on the views of the sponsors of Prop 8 about marriage and sexuality, nor does it depend on the TV commercials and other communications put forth by the campaign in favor of the measure. Yet Walker has not only ruled that these issues are relevant, so are the private thoughts of backers never communicated to voters.
Walker will allow the plaintiffs' lawyers to grill the sponsors of the initiative, their campaign consultants and key supporters on the stand. They'll be asked to explain and defend their private views about homosexuality, religion and a variety of other matters.
This should make for great legal theater, and the judge has done his best to make sure the show will be broadly disseminated by his unprecedented ruling allowing cameras in the courtroom and videos to be run on YouTube.

On Monday, the day the trial started, the U.S. Supreme Court issued a stay blocking Walker's orders permitting what would have been the first trial in the 9th Circuit to be recorded and broadcast nightly online. The Supreme Court's order expires at 4 p.m. ET Wednesday, giving justices more time to fully consider the issue.
The legal premise that the plaintiffs have put forth in Kristin M. Perry v. Arnold Schwarzenegger is that no legitimate governmental interest justifies limiting marriage to a man and a woman.
Perry co-counsel David Boies has said traditional marriage is nothing but "the residue of centuries of figurative and literal gay bashing." The plaintiffs will argue that gays and lesbians are a politically powerless class of people who are entitled to the highest degree of legal scrutiny of a law that applies especially to them.
In this regard, they say, Prop 8 should be viewed by the same legal standards that are used to evaluate claims of racial discrimination. They'll argue that homosexuality is an immutable characteristic. And they will argue that Prop 8 was passed because of "improper" religious views. They say that there is no rational basis for Proposition 8 and that it could have been adopted only because of voter "animus" toward gays and lesbians.
The defendants are the sponsors of Prop 8 who have been forced to spend millions of dollars supporting the initiative because Attorney General Jerry Brown has abandoned his responsibilities to the people he was sworn to represent.
They can be expected to argue that Prop 8 is a validly enacted and constitutional measure that was supported by more than 7 million California voters -- twice the number who voted for Schwarzenegger to be their governor.
They advance the reasonable and common-sense proposition that marriage is about more than the relationship between the two adults involved and has broad implications for society as a whole, especially children. They will point to the procreative nature of the male/female relationship as one of many things that separate traditional marriage from same-sex relationships.
Whether traditional marriage, and the rights of more than 7 million voters like me who approved Prop 8, prevail in Walker's courtroom remains to be seen.
But no matter how this judge eventually rules, the Perry case is destined for appeals and a final decision in the U.S. Supreme Court.
Ultimately, it will be the nine justices of the Supreme Court, and not a single federal judge in San Francisco, who will determine the constitutionality of Prop 8 and, by extension, the nation's marriage laws.
[http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/01/1...age.on.trial/]


So how do you think the judge will rule?



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  (#2 (permalink)) Old
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Re: Prop 8 Trial - January 12th 2010, 10:26 PM

There is only one way they can rule that is logical: Against Prop 8.

The Supreme court decision of Loving v Virginia 388 U.S. 1 (1967) states that: "Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival". Hernandez v. Robles (2006) might have claimed it does not apply in cases of same sex marriage however that was only the Court Of Appeals and I'm willing to bet the Supreme Court will disagree.

Not to mention that the logical side of the argument is against Prop 8. This is simply something that should never have been voted on in the first place. If the Supreme Court rules in favour of Prop 8 then I don't think respect for America will recover for a long time.

Plus the political leaning around this time seems to be pro-gay marriage so I think there is a good chance of a happy ending. I know the executive, legislative and judiciary are all meant to be separate but they're all influenced by each other to a certain extent. I think it may be a 4-3 decision or similar though.
   
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Re: Prop 8 Trial - January 13th 2010, 03:20 AM

I hope it does go to the supreme court. If it does, the odds of them ruling in favor of prop 8 are ridiculously low.

I'm honestly surprised there hasn't been anything introduced on a federal level recently concerning gay marriage.


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Re: Prop 8 Trial - January 13th 2010, 04:24 AM

I am glad all of this is happening because I am hoping that the supreme court will make the right decision and 'vote no on prop 8".

I don't see how they couldn't because then they would be supporting discrimination and I would lose so much more respect for America. Don't get me wrong, I love America but we are supposed to be "the land of the free" "Same rights for everyone" etc and if this law continues American values and morals are going down hill.

I mean, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Everyone can hate or love whoever they want but there needs to be a line drawn and in a way if this law is allowed to stay wouldn't it be saying that hatred for gays is okay?

Idk I could be biased but I just feel every person has the right to marry who they want and it is just discriminatory to not allow someone to marry because of their sexual orientation.


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Re: Prop 8 Trial - January 13th 2010, 04:49 AM

Quote:
They advance the reasonable and common-sense proposition that marriage is about more than the relationship between the two adults involved and has broad implications for society as a whole, especially children. They will point to the procreative nature of the male/female relationship as one of many things that separate traditional marriage from same-sex relationships.



Think of the children! This was almost a good article until that point.

Good on Walker. The point it looks like he's making is one that badly needs to me made on a national level: there is no good non-religious reason to ban gay-marriage.


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Re: Prop 8 Trial - January 13th 2010, 06:58 PM

Yes on prop 8.
I live in the San Francisco area, so i do know whats all going on around here. (probably because its all over the news)
I think it should be voted yes. But i wouldn't be surprised if it was voted no.





   
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Re: Prop 8 Trial - January 13th 2010, 08:20 PM

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Originally Posted by Angelina. View Post
Yes on prop 8.
I live in the San Francisco area, so i do know whats all going on around here. (probably because its all over the news)
I think it should be voted yes. But i wouldn't be surprised if it was voted no.

I think you meant no on Prop 8. Prop 8 banned gay marriage.




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Re: Prop 8 Trial - January 13th 2010, 08:30 PM

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Originally Posted by DoesThisLookInfected? View Post
I think you meant no on Prop 8. Prop 8 banned gay marriage.

Yeah, I'm half awake Cameron.




   
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Re: Prop 8 Trial - January 14th 2010, 03:15 AM

It's only at the appeals court right now? If it isn't overturned, I'm sure they'll keep appealing. The Supreme Court will have issues with this case, because declaring Prop8 unconstitutional in the US Supreme Court would ultimately make any ban on gay marriage such.


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