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View Poll Results: Do you think that pedestrians should be fined and ticketed for cross intersections on wrong signals
Yes 18 60.00%
No 12 40.00%
Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll

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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
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Do you think that pedestrians should be fined and ticketed for cross intersections on wrong signals - February 9th 2010, 04:33 PM

Do you think that pedestrians should be fined and ticketed for crossing intersections on wrong signals?

With all the new laws coming into place about bad drivers, there are just as many bad mannered pedestrians who think that an accident is never their fault. In fact, there is a huge portion of accidents that are caused by pedestrians crossing intersections when the hand is flashing red (which means DO NOT WALK), and things like j-walking.

So I ask for peoples opinions, do you think pedestrians should be fined for careless street-walking just as drivers are fined for careless driving?

My opinion is yes they should, people need to wake up and follow the street lights. Just because you are not in a car doesn't exempt you from the law of safety.
J-walking is neither ok nor necessary, it causes car accidents on the road daily.
   
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Re: Do you think that pedestrians should be fined and ticketed for cross intersections on wrong sign - February 9th 2010, 04:35 PM

I think there should be a fine, and I think there are in some states. I don't know about all of them. There are plenty of things to watch and do while driving; worrying about someone stepping randomly out into the street should not be one of them. Not only does j-walking put the pedestrian at risk, but the drivers and passengers of the cars as well.




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Re: Do you think that pedestrians should be fined and ticketed for cross intersections on wrong sign - February 9th 2010, 05:17 PM

Yes, I can actually give a good example of why. Today on my way to work I was driving though a highway and it was only me no other cars were around, I was going around 75km and out of the no where this guy I'm guessing he was drunk or high steps in the middle of my lane my first reaction was to switch lanes and thank God no other car was around or it would of caused an accident. This high way is a pretty busy road imagine if it would have happened in a busy hour?
I would probably be blamed for it and blah blah blah….


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Re: Do you think that pedestrians should be fined and ticketed for cross intersections on wrong sign - February 9th 2010, 05:35 PM

I believe that the whole "pedestrians are never wrong" idea needs to be scratched.

Here's the deal. If I hit someone in a crosswalk, it's my fault. But if you run out into the road in a non designated area, you are responsible and you are putting yourself at risk.

In fact, I'd go as far to say that if you run out into the road and I hit you because you were too stupid to cross at a safer time in a safer spot, I should receive a cash reward. But thats just me.


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Re: Do you think that pedestrians should be fined and ticketed for cross intersections on wrong sign - February 9th 2010, 10:26 PM

I used to jaywalk but once I started driving I stopped because I realized how damn annoying people who jaywalk are. By jaywalking or crossing at a light when you shouldn't(I'm not sure if it's still called jaywalking) you are breaking traffic laws, and you should be fined. If you get hit, you're not only hurting yourself. Often legal action could be taken against the driver, and then there's also the same reason why you don't step in front of a train. I read an article in my local paper about a train driver who hit a woman that was standing in the tracks, trying to kill herself and he had to quit his job because he was so traumatized by the fact that he had killed someone.

You know what else I hate? When you have a left turn signal and some dumbass is in the crosswalk so you can't go.


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Re: Do you think that pedestrians should be fined and ticketed for cross intersections on wrong sign - February 9th 2010, 10:44 PM

I guess you're on about people crossing the road where there isn't a crossing? If so, no the pedestrian shouldn't be fined, but they should be prepared to be hit by a car, simple as that.
   
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Re: Do you think that pedestrians should be fined and ticketed for cross intersections on wrong sign - February 9th 2010, 10:47 PM

I jaywalk on side streets, not busy roads. You should be fined on main roads I guess, but not most side streets (which don't even have crosswalks where I live). If you're stupid enough to jaywalk on a busy street and get hit, it shouldn't be whoever hit you's problem. I'm not sure how hard it would be to enforce it. In a suburban area, maybe, but in the city it would be impossible, people jaywalk everywhere, and cops will probably ignore it even if they did make it a ticketable offense (actually, I think it already might be where I live).
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Re: Do you think that pedestrians should be fined and ticketed for cross intersections on wrong sign - February 9th 2010, 11:06 PM

Yes, yes, a million times yes! I'm not talking about huge fines, just small ones to get the message across. My car has taken so much damage from having to slam on the breaks due to a pedestrian being where they shouldn't be, and they act like you(the driver) are the ones doing something wrong. There are times when I wish my breaks would fail... xD
   
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Re: Do you think that pedestrians should be fined and ticketed for cross intersections on wrong sign - February 10th 2010, 02:01 AM

Okay, as someone who walks, I say it depends. I've seen people cross at the lights when it was flashing red, so sure, that's okay to fine them. But where I live, there are very few of those crosswalks. You have to jaywalk, most people do it at the lights because it is safer. I have to jaywalk to get some places from campus, as we have few signal lights, but I wait until no cares or coming. As for getting hit, I've been walking on the sidewalk and almost been hit before (no joke), so it's not always the pedestrians fault.


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Re: Do you think that pedestrians should be fined and ticketed for cross intersections on wrong sign - February 10th 2010, 02:43 AM

BTW, the hand FLASHING does NOT mean stop, it means that it will turn solid soon, so you can continue to walk, just go fast! Many signals now have countdowns.

My answer: Yes. Signals are there to keep us safe. If you're walking against the light, you should be ticketed, just as if a car runs a red.


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Re: Do you think that pedestrians should be fined and ticketed for cross intersections on wrong sign - February 10th 2010, 03:09 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkguy View Post
BTW, the hand FLASHING does NOT mean stop, it means that it will turn solid soon, so you can continue to walk, just go fast! Many signals now have countdowns.

My answer: Yes. Signals are there to keep us safe. If you're walking against the light, you should be ticketed, just as if a car runs a red.
I don't know where you are but it means DO NOT BEGIN TO WALK here, unless you are already in the street you don't start walking on the flashing hand.

As for people talking about places where there are no crosswalks, if said law would come into place they would need to make legal cross walk lines on the streets designated where there are no intersections and put a pedestrian passing sign near by.

The question mostly approaches places where you can walk a max of 1.5KM (approx) to get to the next intersection (usually in the city).
   
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Re: Do you think that pedestrians should be fined and ticketed for cross intersections on wrong sign - February 10th 2010, 03:19 AM

^I don't want to start a flame war here, but if there's a countdown and you still have 25 seconds to cross the street, why wouldn't you? People in the SF Bay cross on flashing hands all the time. The flashing hand is like a yellow light meaning "you only have so much time before i turn completely solid". If you are careful you can still cross safely. Within 10 years almost all pedestrian signals in the US (buy law) will have to incorporate countdowns [source: wikipedia]

Oh, and also, according to this page (made for little kids) the flashing red hand and "Don't Walk" signs mean to use caution, but perhaps in other countries this is different
http://www.nysgtsc.state.ny.us/Kids/ksignans.htm

Edit: okay you win. Need to read more carefully! It does say to stay on the curb if you haven't started yet, but I was never taught that way and if you go fast you're usually okay.


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Re: Do you think that pedestrians should be fined and ticketed for cross intersections on wrong sign - February 10th 2010, 03:35 AM

I think pedestrians should be fined and ticketed, although the one concern I have is a fairly obvious one: what's the fine? I'd be more than happy if it was a small fine as that's what I think it should be.

The notion that the drivers are at fault is a flawed one. In many cases, the drivers did nothing wrong except not anticipate someone would jump out in the street and cross. At university campus, this is a real pain because people just cross, sometimes without even looking at the cars. The speed limit is a pretty low one but nevertheless, a hit by a car isn't something that's going to be brushed off and put a little band-aid on.

In some places, the crosswalks have timers or beepers but most don't, most just have the hand, the flashing hand and the little white man running.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkguy View Post
Oh, and also, according to this page (made for little kids) the flashing red hand and "Don't Walk" signs mean to use caution, but perhaps in other countries this is different
http://www.nysgtsc.state.ny.us/Kids/ksignans.htm
If you're going to live in a country or even visit it, learn at least how to get around and the language. Besides, some of the signs are self-explanatory.
   
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Re: Do you think that pedestrians should be fined and ticketed for cross intersections on wrong sign - February 10th 2010, 03:41 AM

^Yeah I corrected myself because i was wrong but honestly nobody ever taught me that way. I try to use the best judgement possible and I learn what the timing is like at the intersections I use often so I know what to do and what not to do. For instance, when crossing the side street near my school, I know that I shouldn't go across on a flashing red because I don't have long. On the other hand, in places where I have 10-15 seconds I can run across without any problem. As long as you use good judgement, you'll be alive.


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Re: Do you think that pedestrians should be fined and ticketed for cross intersections on wrong sign - February 10th 2010, 04:29 AM

The short answer: Yes.

But police should also use some discretion when enforcing this. Zero tolerance should be out of the question.

I shouldn't get a ticket for crossing the intersection near my apartment at 2 AM where theres NO cars in sight. Just doesn't make sense.
   
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Re: Do you think that pedestrians should be fined and ticketed for cross intersections on wrong sign - February 10th 2010, 04:32 AM

^Definitely.


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Re: Do you think that pedestrians should be fined and ticketed for cross intersections on wrong sign - February 10th 2010, 04:37 AM

Yes, I think so. Pedestrians only have the right away when the light is RED at an intersection, or at stop signs. I guess some people think that pedestrians have the right away all the time, even when there is clearly traffic headed their way.


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Re: Do you think that pedestrians should be fined and ticketed for cross intersections on wrong sign - February 10th 2010, 11:54 PM

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Originally Posted by MyEndlessLove17 View Post
Yes, I think so. Pedestrians only have the right away when the light is RED at an intersection, or at stop signs.when there is clearly traffic headed their way.
Pedestrians also have the right of way at crosswalks.... which are at every intersection, painted or not.


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Re: Do you think that pedestrians should be fined and ticketed for cross intersections on wrong sign - February 11th 2010, 02:12 AM

I think there should be, there is so many people crossing right infront of cars, its kinda redic.



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Re: Do you think that pedestrians should be fined and ticketed for cross intersections on wrong sign - February 12th 2010, 12:26 AM

No.

drivers have to pass a test to drive, so therefore they should [in theory] know the rules of the road and therefore if they break those rules/laws.. they can be fined.

you cannot rely on pedestrians to make informed and sensible decisions when crossing roads, that's why generally is theres a person Vs. car collision the driver of the car takes the blame.

you can't really compare fining a pedestrian to fining a driver.. the driver is trained, the pedestrian is not.

plus, i don't think giving someone a fine after they've just been run over is going to achieve much.. i think they'll learn their lesson from their near death experience.. either that, or they'll be dead.


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Re: Do you think that pedestrians should be fined and ticketed for cross intersections on wrong sign - February 12th 2010, 05:00 AM

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Originally Posted by Elle. View Post
No.

drivers have to pass a test to drive, so therefore they should [in theory] know the rules of the road and therefore if they break those rules/laws.. they can be fined.

you cannot rely on pedestrians to make informed and sensible decisions when crossing roads, that's why generally is theres a person Vs. car collision the driver of the car takes the blame.

you can't really compare fining a pedestrian to fining a driver.. the driver is trained, the pedestrian is not.

plus, i don't think giving someone a fine after they've just been run over is going to achieve much.. i think they'll learn their lesson from their near death experience.. either that, or they'll be dead.
Ok how about if a person is J-walking across the road where it is not necessary, should the driver still be held responsible for hitting them?

Should the pedestrian be held responsible for causing the accident? (example a car swivels out of the way and crashes into the tree or ditch, killing himself)

I understand your point, and while its valid a person driving on a highway within the speed limits (and not driving like a maniac) is following all the rules by the law. Unless you really wanna put people crossing signs all over the place like deer crossing signs then the drivers are following their instructions.

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Re: Do you think that pedestrians should be fined and ticketed for cross intersections on wrong sign - February 12th 2010, 11:55 AM

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Ok how about if a person is J-walking across the road where it is not necessary, should the driver still be held responsible for hitting them?

Should the pedestrian be held responsible for causing the accident? (example a car swivels out of the way and crashes into the tree or ditch, killing himself)

I understand your point, and while its valid a person driving on a highway within the speed limits (and not driving like a maniac) is following all the rules by the law. Unless you really wanna put people crossing signs all over the place like deer crossing signs then the drivers are following their instructions.
i've never heard of j-walking so i don't really understand, is it an american term.? googling it just comes up with 'reckless pedestrian crossing of a roadway.' so urm, i don't see how that's any different from the original point of this thread..


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Re: Do you think that pedestrians should be fined and ticketed for cross intersections on wrong sign - February 12th 2010, 12:06 PM

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i've never heard of j-walking so i don't really understand, is it an american term.? googling it just comes up with 'reckless pedestrian crossing of a roadway.' so urm, i don't see how that's any different from the original point of this thread..
Jwalking refers to crossing in the middle of the road (not on the cross walk or intersection) because it takes less time. In many cases, people especially teenagers will try to cross in busy traffic knowing very well they have a 90% of getting hit by a car.

Example : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aajasit7nUs

Another thing I see, when the light is green for the oncomming traffic, people will walk adjacently (even though the hand is red) and they know that they'll get hit.
   
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Re: Do you think that pedestrians should be fined and ticketed for cross intersections on wrong sign - February 12th 2010, 12:08 PM

I think it's actually a crime in America...

But I still totally agree with you Elle... I'd go on, but I'd just be repeating your earlier post ^^;




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Re: Do you think that pedestrians should be fined and ticketed for cross intersections on wrong sign - February 12th 2010, 12:10 PM

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I think it's actually a crime in America...

But I still totally agree with you Elle... I'd go on, but I'd just be repeating your earlier post ^^;
So you think the pedestrian shouldn't be held responsible for causing the accident because the driver had to move out of the way of an idiotic pedestrian crossing when he knows he'll get hit?
   
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Re: Do you think that pedestrians should be fined and ticketed for cross intersections on wrong sign - February 12th 2010, 01:12 PM

I think they should and I've been on both sides of this, I understand that it's a pain to stand on the corner esepcially in the snow or rain for 5 minutes waiting for the light to change and the crosswalk to swich over, but it's better than getting hit by a car.


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Re: Do you think that pedestrians should be fined and ticketed for cross intersections on wrong sign - February 13th 2010, 09:04 PM

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Originally Posted by Elle. View Post
No.

drivers have to pass a test to drive, so therefore they should [in theory] know the rules of the road and therefore if they break those rules/laws.. they can be fined.

you cannot rely on pedestrians to make informed and sensible decisions when crossing roads, that's why generally is theres a person Vs. car collision the driver of the car takes the blame.

you can't really compare fining a pedestrian to fining a driver.. the driver is trained, the pedestrian is not.
So you think it's okay for pedestrians to endanger motorists just because pedestrians aren't "trained"? Do you know how many drivers are injured because they had to swerve to avoid some idiot in the middle of the road? Roads are a part of life, people have to deal with them in their everyday life.


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Re: Do you think that pedestrians should be fined and ticketed for cross intersections on wrong sign - February 13th 2010, 10:04 PM

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So you think it's okay for pedestrians to endanger motorists just because pedestrians aren't "trained"? Do you know how many drivers are injured because they had to swerve to avoid some idiot in the middle of the road? Roads are a part of life, people have to deal with them in their everyday life.
no i don't think it's ok, but it happens. it's unfortunate that people die in collisions like this, obviously.. but i don't think fining the pedestrians is the answer. maybe it's very different in America, idk.. but here it's not unusual at all for people to cross where there is no crossing.. that's why drivers have to be alert and ready to break/avoid the pedestrian where necessary.

the hazard perception part of the driving theory test here teaches you how to deal with and anticipate situations like this, where a pedestrian may walk out into the road.

yes a pedestrian is stupid for doing that but as far as i'm aware it's not against the law to cross a road where there isn't a crossing, so it's down to the individual to judge when it's safe..

also, it would be very hard to implement. how do you propose this scheme should be implemented?.. it's difficult to judge whether it's the driver or pedestrians fault.. and in any case, a person Vs Car collision is generally seen as the drivers fault, even if the person walked right out in front of them. you cannot expect people to know the rules of the road, you'd be surprised how many people don't.


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  (#29 (permalink)) Old
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Re: Do you think that pedestrians should be fined and ticketed for cross intersections on wrong sign - February 13th 2010, 10:20 PM

I'm kinda biased about this because I do cross where there's no crossings but only because there aren't any crossings on some roads I need to cross. I'm really safe about it though I won't go if I can see a car heading in my direction even if it's really far away.

Some people are just plain idiots though, I live right in the middle of town so I see a lot of things. On Friday nights you see groups of teenagers just running across the roundabout outside my house. It's a wonder there hasn't been many accidents tbh. Also I was looking to see if my boyfriend was coming off the bus yet and there's a crossing right outside my window, this girl just walked straight across it and got hit by a car. I'm guessing the driver will have gotten blamed for that even though it was obviously her own stupid fault.

I think there should be some kinda of fine for people who do idiotic things like the two examples above.


   
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Re: Do you think that pedestrians should be fined and ticketed for cross intersections on wrong sign - February 16th 2010, 07:26 PM

I'm pretty sure that under federal laws in the US you can be fined for jaywalking, but I'm not sure. I know that individual states have laws against jaywalking, Washington, for example.


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Re: Do you think that pedestrians should be fined and ticketed for cross intersections on wrong sign - February 16th 2010, 08:57 PM

Er I don't know about where you live, but here I was always taught in theory for driving that pedestrians always have right of way.
   
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Re: Do you think that pedestrians should be fined and ticketed for cross intersections on wrong sign - February 17th 2010, 04:30 AM

Yes, technically, pedestrians have the right-of-way, but only in the sense that if you run over them, it's your fault because you should have been paying attention. If a jaywalker runs into a car, it's not going to hurt and/or kill the car. If the car runs into the jaywalker, well.... Yeah.
Anyway. I definitely think that jaywalking laws should be enforced. No matter how much attention you're paying, cars don't stop on a dime, and a pedestrian who runs out and surprises a driver can end up being dangerous on both parts. I've seen some pedestrians who have caused accidents because the driver swerved to avoid hitting the pedestrian and ended up hitting another car.
Yes, pedestrians have the right-of-way. But they also have the right to not be idiots.


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Re: Do you think that pedestrians should be fined and ticketed for cross intersections on wrong sign - February 17th 2010, 04:39 AM

I don't think you should get in trouble for jay-walking. If you disturb traffic, then you should get in trouble for impeding traffic or whatever it's called, not for crossing the road without permission.

Am I really hurting anyone if no cars are coming and I cross the street? I haven't affected a driver, or myself. I just walked. If I made a car slam on it's breaks, I'm affecting traffic and then should get in trouble.



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Re: Do you think that pedestrians should be fined and ticketed for cross intersections on wrong sign - February 18th 2010, 06:34 AM

I am primo at dodging traffic. As long as there are no cars coming, and you are aware of the traffic laws(I ALWAYS check if the drivers can turn right at a red light when I'm home before I cross, but when I'm in NYC I know that it's illegal to turn right on a red at any intersection) then it's perfectly fine. Unfortunately, people are idiotic.

I remember when my brother was 17 or 18 and I was 13, he ended up hitting a pedestrian on a major highway - the guy decided to randomly walk out onto a freeway(at NIGHT, nontheless!) and my brother tried to break from 75 mph and probably hit him at like 45/50. The guy broke both of his legs. LUCKILY, the police did not hold my brother responsible, and even considered charging the guy with jay-walking.

If I waited for every traffic light to give me the proper signal to pass, then I'd be waiting forever - particularly when I'm in New York and normally trying to get to a lesson or appointment on time. This is a problem for me, and for many others. It would cause MASSIVE congestion of the sidewalks, and possibly get even more dangerous.


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Re: Do you think that pedestrians should be fined and ticketed for cross intersections on wrong sign - February 24th 2010, 03:37 PM

Yes, but I do think it would be amazingly amazingly be hard to enforce. It sucks that most of North America is based on 'car culture' and that cities are catered towards the drivers. Urban planning should cater toward the pedestrian.

Article over here which sums up most of my thoughts

http://www.slate.com/id/2234011/pagenum/all/
   
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Re: Do you think that pedestrians should be fined and ticketed for cross intersections on wrong sign - February 24th 2010, 04:45 PM

Yes.

I think that because of the fact that pedestrians assume they automatically have the right away they take advantage. I know that where I live pedestrians cross the street (when a cross walk is two feet away) without looking. I feel that this is dangerous not only to them but to the other cars around them.

I know there was one or two times where I was driving along and all of a sudden the pedestrian was just there. I had to slam on my breaks. Luckily no one had been behind me because I might have been rear ended.

I also feel like Pedestrians take advantage of cross walks. Like, the don't walk sign will come on and they will cross anyways and then what seems like 5 seconds later traffic can go. This stalls traffic and is a little confusing because sometimes people see a green light and automatically assume they can go. And, when they start to go out pops a little pedestrian. Which causes annoyance and what not.

Basically, I think that pedestrians do tend to take advantage of the fact that they have the right away. So, I think some type of awareness needs to be implemented. I think giving tickets would be the only way to ensure that that happens.


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Re: Do you think that pedestrians should be fined and ticketed for cross intersections on wrong sign - February 24th 2010, 04:48 PM

No, I don't think they should be fined. Its common sense wether to walk or not and people should be prepared for the consequences.

If people are already on the road, then, yes they do have right of way.
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Re: Do you think that pedestrians should be fined and ticketed for cross intersections on wrong sign - February 24th 2010, 04:48 PM

I don't think that pedestrians should be fined as long as they aren't causing trouble. Let me explain.

I believe there are smart pedestrians and stupid pedestrians. Being a smart pedestrian doesn't mean you only cross at a cross walk, it means you look both ways and make sure that you have time to cross without interfering with the flow of traffic. Stupid pedestrians just walk out on the road without taking a look at oncoming cars.

If a pedestrian causes an accident or causes an automobile to break suddenly, then yes they should be fined. It's pure ignorance/stupidity on their part. But if a pedestrian looks both ways, makes sure they have time to cross without disturbing the drivers why should they be fined?

I'm a pretty big jay-walker, have been doing it for years and unless my memory fails me I've never even come close to causing an accident while jay-walking. I've experienced more near accident experiences while crossing at a crosswalk when it was my right of way.

I guess in the end, I see nothing wrong with jay-walking and such if you have the time to do so. Just don't be stupid.
   
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