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China and U.S.A? - February 18th 2010, 05:34 PM

I was a little bored in my Comp.Sci class and decided to wander off to CNN to read news. I stumbled upon the news about China and U.S. and read the comments posted by other readers. And I must say, it seems like a lot of people hate China, and they seem to have a lot of misunderstanding about China, or anything in fact, from what I read. Things such as "Don't buy "Made in China!" Buy "Made in America"" makes me realize that. How many of them didn't know that a lot of appliances that reads "Made in America" is actually assembly of parts made in many countries, from U.S., China, Japan, and others?

It seems like America is always hating on something, it used to be the Russian and communists during the Cold War, then it became Muslims or Middle East after 9/11, now it is China's turn to be hated by Americans.

And after reading a little more comment about China and U.S., and other news floating around on the media, I wonder: what y'all think about it?
   
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Re: China and U.S.A? - February 18th 2010, 06:01 PM

Well, it's simply part of politics. There always has to be an "enemy," simply because it gives people something to unite about. Not to mention, China and North Korea are the last two "significant" communist countries, and Communists have always been seen as enemies of the U.S..

Personally, though, there are a couple reasons I prefer to buy things "Made in America." First, even if the parts are from somewhere else, at least purchasing it is supporting one if not more American jobs (in the assembly plant, for instance). With our economy as it is, I want to support American jobs as much as I can. Also, after the lead paint issues with some things coming out of China, I feel a little bit safer buying things out of the U.S.. We simply have tighter restrictions on our industries from a safety stand point.

All that being said, I don't think the Chinese are evil or anything by any stretch.
   
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Re: China and U.S.A? - February 18th 2010, 06:13 PM

China is not really that much of a communist. It is definitely turning into an open market system. Here is something I found on the web.

"The economy in China is now decidedly capitalistic in nature. Average Chinese citizens can start their own businesses and put their income into private bank accounts. Chinese citizens can buy stocks in companies and enjoy the revenues or suffer the losses. As of just a few years ago, private property rights have been greatly enhanced in China, and Chinese people can now be more secure that their land will not be taken away from them. Let us not forget about the heavy international investment that has been permitted in China which has played a major role in fueling this developing and booming economy. As a result, there are very rich people and very poor people in China as well as an emerging middle class. Chinese citizens, who always carried a good sense for business but were restricted from entrepreneurship in the past have now been more free to take risks and build successful companies. Thus capitalism has transformed the Chinese economy and changed people’s lives forever. Does the Chinese government still maintain strict control of the economy in China? Absolutely. Is there a free market in China in the true sense of the word? Of course not. But where is there truly a free market in the world? Does one exist? Can someone show me a country where the government is not heavily invovled in its nation’s economy? The CCP’s control on China’s economy may be unusually tight but it has been weakening very slowly over the past 30 years."


And I find that idea of hating someone constantly quite horrible. I lived with people of different racial background, Chinese, American, Africans, Arabs, etc. One of my old RA is a Muslim, as a matter of fact. I get along with all of them quite well provided that they have a good personality. I will never hate on anyone because of their race. Some of the racial comment I found on there is...outright disgusting. Supposedly America is a free country with equality for all..."God bless America and #$%@ (Whatever Country)"...Those people should remember one of the commandment about loving their neighbors, and more importantly, their enemy, if they practice Christianity.
   
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Re: China and U.S.A? - February 18th 2010, 06:37 PM

You are correct in that China is nowhere near as communist as it once was, but the communist party is still the ruling party and there are still a good number of communist characteristics to their government.

Also, something to remember, a good number of the people writing the comments that you were/are reading are probably not Christian.

Like I said, I don't personally hate or even dislike the Chinese people, I was just giving possible reasons for the dislike, and why I prefer to buy American goods.
   
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Re: China and U.S.A? - February 18th 2010, 06:52 PM

I will agree about some of the Chinese goods and its quality. Unfortunately, there are businessmen who would put the health of other people at risk for their benefit.

I just wish those people will at least throw away the prejudice for a few second and really consider the fact on the other side. I also found that sometimes media are putting the dirt on China, or any other "enemy" for the matter.

Like on Fox, I believe, when they were discussing about Haiti. Those debaters were belittling China's effort during the Haiti earthquake rescuing effort. Yes, China did not donate a lot of money compared to U.S. but there isn't a need to bash on China because of that. If celebrities or wealthy merchants decide to donate 1 mil to Haiti out of good will (or otherwise), then so be it. And they have not even mentioned one word about China's own rescuing team, which in fact arrived earlier than most other groups (couple hours - 1 day after the news hit I believe?) and provide immediate aid and rescue mission after the afterquake.

It just seems like America is certainly biased against other people, in this case, China.
   
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Re: China and U.S.A? - February 21st 2010, 01:13 AM

The United States and China are the two centers of the modern globalist economy. It's possible, but unrealistic and frustrating, to completely boycott Chinese products and goods. The fact that a person may have moral disagreements with the political philosophies of the leaders of China doesn't mean they have to give up (even voluntarily) their right to buy merchandise harvested, assembled, or outfitted in China. The social, economic, and political systems between the two countries is vastly different, but the past fifty years of economic interdependency have benefitted both countries quite well.

Having ranted on that, I'll say that even though I disagree with China's human rights policies (especially concerning Tibet), I have no moral reasoning or self-decided obligation to boycott their economy.


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Re: China and U.S.A? - February 21st 2010, 02:24 AM

It's all down to politics. And to be truthful things that are made in China generally are of a lower quality than things made else where, because it's cheaper there for there's more profit etc etc. And in the end Americans are like the French and hate everybody except themselves =p
   
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Re: China and U.S.A? - February 21st 2010, 03:15 AM

during the cold war the would had 2 superpowers the ussr and the usa after the ussr fell in the 80's it left the us on top and now as our power begins to crumble ppl r starting to notice that china has developed to near superpower status (i say near because unlike the cold war superpowers they dont have enough power to wipe out every living thing like the ussr and usa could and still can)


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Re: China and U.S.A? - February 26th 2010, 02:04 AM

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Originally Posted by l0stCause View Post
during the cold war the would had 2 superpowers the ussr and the usa after the ussr fell in the 80's it left the us on top and now as our power begins to crumble ppl r starting to notice that china has developed to near superpower status (i say near because unlike the cold war superpowers they dont have enough power to wipe out every living thing like the ussr and usa could and still can)


The USA is still the world's only superpower, atleast for the time being - as we have the greatest power projection in our navy. Additionally, we are BY FAR spending the most on our military (I believe that the countries that are runner-ups concerning spending, spend about 10% of what we do), thus we have the most advanced technology. However, I believe ChinA has more man-power and more members of their military - - still, it's irrelevent in terms of technology and power projection, which is the most important thing about modern warfare.

China has issues. I don't like to buy Chinese if I can because their mindset about human rights is downright cruel - and it most certainly does have a lingering communist mindset.


Quote:
Human rights violations in the People's Republic of China (PRC) remain systematic and widespread. The Chinese government continues to suppress dissenting opinions and maintains political control over the legal system, resulting in an arbitrary and sometimes abusive judicial regime. The lack of accountability of the government and the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) means that abuses by officials often go unchecked. This fact sheet identifies the most common types of abuses, including arbitrary detention, torture and ill-treatment of prisoners, severe restrictions on freedom of expression and association and violations specific to women.

I'm not going to buy things that are the result of child labor. I'm just not. And I'm not going to spend my money on lower quality items, either.



EDIT : http://www.christusrex.org/www1/sdc/hr_facts.html


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Re: China and U.S.A? - February 26th 2010, 10:29 PM

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Originally Posted by a_soldier_of_orange View Post
The USA is still the world's only superpower, atleast for the time being - as we have the greatest power projection in our navy. Additionally, we are BY FAR spending the most on our military (I believe that the countries that are runner-ups concerning spending, spend about 10% of what we do), thus we have the most advanced technology. However, I believe ChinA has more man-power and more members of their military - - still, it's irrelevent in terms of technology and power projection, which is the most important thing about modern warfare.
What's the point of having all this technology in an armed force that can't even use it efficiently though? Not that I'm calling the US Armed forces inadequately trained or anything...
   
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Re: China and U.S.A? - March 1st 2010, 05:36 AM

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Originally Posted by 3.1415926535897 View Post
What's the point of having all this technology in an armed force that can't even use it efficiently though? Not that I'm calling the US Armed forces inadequately trained or anything...



How is it not being used efficiently? I don't really understand what you mean by that, so just correct me if I misunderstood something =]

I'm not really an expert on military spending, but I know that the object of creating all this new technology is to take men and women off the front line and out of danger(...relatively speaking). A great deal of it goes into fighter planes - which are extraordinarily expensive, but also the back bone of one of the world's strongest militaries.

In the end, it doesn't matter that China has more soldiers than our own military when we're technologically superior to them.


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Re: China and U.S.A? - March 1st 2010, 10:01 PM

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Originally Posted by a_soldier_of_orange View Post
How is it not being used efficiently? I don't really understand what you mean by that, so just correct me if I misunderstood something =]

I'm not really an expert on military spending, but I know that the object of creating all this new technology is to take men and women off the front line and out of danger(...relatively speaking). A great deal of it goes into fighter planes - which are extraordinarily expensive, but also the back bone of one of the world's strongest militaries.

In the end, it doesn't matter that China has more soldiers than our own military when we're technologically superior to them.
I was just being biased by trying to insinuate the US army isn't trained that well, or as well as the British Army any way

And also, in the end
Large Number of Troops > Better Technology
   
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Re: China and U.S.A? - March 2nd 2010, 01:29 AM

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Originally Posted by 3.1415926535897 View Post
And also, in the end
Large Number of Troops > Better Technology
F22 Raptor + B2 Bomber > Large Amount of Troops.

In modern warfare, having more troops than the opposing force isn't necessarily going to win you the war. A few well placed JDAMs can easily take out a Battalion.

But in reality, the country that utilizes all aspects of their military is the one that comes out on top. Everything from troop size to technology.

   
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Re: China and U.S.A? - March 5th 2010, 01:33 AM

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Originally Posted by 3.1415926535897 View Post
I was just being biased by trying to insinuate the US army isn't trained that well, or as well as the British Army any way

And also, in the end
Large Number of Troops > Better Technology


Of course, of course =P. Well, I know very little about the American military, and even less about the British one, so I could care less.

As Topoftheworld said, modern warfare is a completely different ballgame. The way we fight now aims to involve less and less people.

Man vs. Bomb?
Man vs. fighter jet?

It's not really a giant mystery as to who will win.


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Re: China and U.S.A? - March 5th 2010, 11:46 PM

What people seem to not understand is that I'm on about population of troops not density, for most modern weapons to work effectively there needs to be a hight density of troops, but if there is a large number as well as a large spread these weapons become less effective.
   
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Re: China and U.S.A? - March 6th 2010, 12:10 AM

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Originally Posted by 3.1415926535897 View Post
What people seem to not understand is that I'm on about population of troops not density, for most modern weapons to work effectively there needs to be a hight density of troops, but if there is a large number as well as a large spread these weapons become less effective.
Except troops need equipment, ammo, supplies, etc. Modern technology, especially stealth, allows for bombers to sneak behind enemy lines and take out manufacturing facilities and supply routes. Without supplies, troops are basically useless.

An assortment of smaller yet more numerous bombs will do plenty of damage to a large amount of troops spread across an area.

I'm not saying troops aren't important. They are. But a military with prevailing technology and a good amount of troops is going to have superiority over a military with a lot of troops but insufficient technology.
   
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Re: China and U.S.A? - March 6th 2010, 12:39 AM

Why are we suddenly talking about a war between China and U.S.A.? Do you all want a war to break out?


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Re: China and U.S.A? - March 6th 2010, 01:31 AM

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Why are we suddenly talking about a war between China and U.S.A.? Do you all want a war to break out?
How does talking about war mean we want war to break out? Does talking about the Holocaust mean we want another holocaust?

I wasn't even referring to a war between China and the U.S., just modern warfare in general.
   
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Re: China and U.S.A? - March 6th 2010, 06:21 AM

Whatever the point at hand is at any of these debates... remember; China is in this for it's own prosperity whether it takes a toll on other nations or not.

They have kept a tight control on their economic policy in a way that supports mercantilism for CHINA. Everyone else: p!$$ off.

But then again that is what countries do to insure their dominance over the world. We did it in the past.... but currently we are slacking.

So forget free trade policy because China's monetary setup does not support free trade between all nations.
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Re: China and U.S.A? - March 6th 2010, 09:35 AM

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Except troops need equipment, ammo, supplies, etc. Modern technology, especially stealth, allows for bombers to sneak behind enemy lines and take out manufacturing facilities and supply routes. Without supplies, troops are basically useless.

An assortment of smaller yet more numerous bombs will do plenty of damage to a large amount of troops spread across an area.

I'm not saying troops aren't important. They are. But a military with prevailing technology and a good amount of troops is going to have superiority over a military with a lot of troops but insufficient technology.
You make it sound like troops just sit around doing nothing, if there are more troops then there is more chance of them stopping one of these attacks. And I'm saying that if you have a large number of troops you don't have any modern technology, which is what you seem to think.
   
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Re: China and U.S.A? - March 6th 2010, 05:36 PM

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You make it sound like troops just sit around doing nothing, if there are more troops then there is more chance of them stopping one of these attacks.
Troops are going to stop a stealth bomber from destroying a manufacturing facility?

Now you're putting words in my mouth. When did I "make it sound like troops just sit around doing nothing?" I explicitly said troops are important. I also said the military which utilizes all aspects of its forces will have superiority.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3.1415926535897 View Post
And I'm saying that if you have a large number of troops you don't have any modern technology, which is what you seem to think.
Huh?
   
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Re: China and U.S.A? - March 7th 2010, 03:15 PM

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Troops are going to stop a stealth bomber from destroying a manufacturing facility?

Now you're putting words in my mouth. When did I "make it sound like troops just sit around doing nothing?" I explicitly said troops are important. I also said the military which utilizes all aspects of its forces will have superiority.

Huh?
I meant to say 'you seem to think that if there are a large amount of troops it doesn't mean they don't have any modern technology, which is what you seem to think'
And actually, if there are a large amount of troops there is a much higher chance that this stealth bomber would be spotted quite a while before it got to any manufacturing unit...
   
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Re: China and U.S.A? - March 7th 2010, 05:42 PM

TBH there's a lot of reasons to hate china as a country. The people are fine, the govt. however...
   
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Re: China and U.S.A? - March 7th 2010, 09:02 PM

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Originally Posted by 3.1415926535897 View Post

I meant to say 'you seem to think that if there are a large amount of troops it doesn't mean they don't have any modern technology, which is what you seem to think'
You were the one that said "Large Number of Troops > Better Technology."

When did I imply that more troops equates to less technology? To the contrary, I said, "in modern warfare, having more troops than the opposing force isn't necessarily going to win you the war." I also said, "in reality, the country that utilizes all aspects of their military is the one that comes out on top. Everything from troop size to technology."

I never said having more troops means you also have less technology, nor did I imply it.
Quote:
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And actually, if there are a large amount of troops there is a much higher chance that this stealth bomber would be spotted quite a while before it got to any manufacturing unit.
A stealth bomber is going to be spotted at 50,000 feet? That's hard enough to see during the day, let alone at night.

And even if it is seen, you also need prime technology to lock onto an advanced stealth aircraft and shoot it down. Spotting it is useless unless you can do something about it.
   
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Re: China and U.S.A? - March 9th 2010, 02:34 PM

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And actually, if there are a large amount of troops there is a much higher chance that this stealth bomber would be spotted quite a while before it got to any manufacturing unit...
Ground troops aren't going to spot a stealth bomber, and they sure aren't going to be able to do anything about stopping it without some seriously advanced technology. To use a somewhat drastic example, do you think 2000 (maybe even 20,000) Genghis Kahn-era Mogolian warriors could defeat a dozen tanks (with associated crews)? Sure there may be 20-50+ times as many Mongolians, but if their swords and arrows can't pierce the tanks' armor, what do they have left to do? Now, I know that isn't a great example because it is a HUGE technical disparity, but even two or three dozen tanks could have probably routed an entire medieval army with their near invulnerability. If some country were to find an advance in technology that gave them a similar advantage, they wouldn't need 100 times as many troops to win. I think that, to a sufficient degree, technology can overcome numbers. But it has to be advanced enough, and the strongest force would be the one with both numbers and technology.


As to the actual topic of the thread, I think that China and the Chinese are generally so disliked because their products are seen as inferior (and in many cases are), they are seen as evil communists (whether it's true or not) and because of how many American jobs have been lost to outsourcing manufacturing to China. Honestly, I wish America still produced most of our goods. If it were ever to come down to it, we could practically be brought to a standstill if China decided to stop exporting to us. I don't like any one country to have such power over us, whether I think they use it or not.

With all that said, I don't dislike China or the Chinese. I dislike that we have lost so many American jobs to them for the sake of saving a few dollars on manufacturing and that the United States now relies so heavily on them and foreign imports in general. But I am actually going to visit China in May, so I must not dislike it too much :P


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Re: China and U.S.A? - March 16th 2010, 01:48 AM

I dont think China alway produces crappy products..

Like...

Dells, and Apple computers are made in China too. Ipods are made in China.

It just depends on the company producing the goods. In fact China probaly have a better quality products then any other country... because of the cost savings... they can spend more time and money on quality control.

Think of it this way. Canadian minum wage is around 9/hour. Chinese is about 20 cents/ hour.

Think about it.

The really crappy products are just designed to be exteremly cheap.

Ppl also think mexican products are crappy...
Well. the ford fusion is made in Mexico. And it is rated as one of the most reliable car in North America. And guess what. a good portion of the Honda Accord sold in the US is made in mexico. and the Accord is also a quality leader.

Its not nessarily where a product is made that determines the quality... its WHO MAKES IT!
   
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Re: China and U.S.A? - March 16th 2010, 01:57 AM

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Originally Posted by Tomb View Post
I dont think China alway produces crappy products..

Like...

Dells, and Apple computers are made in China too. Ipods are made in China.

It just depends on the company producing the goods. In fact China probaly have a better quality products then any other country... because of the cost savings... they can spend more time and money on quality control.

Think of it this way. Canadian minum wage is around 9/hour. Chinese is about 20 cents/ hour.

Think about it.

The really crappy products are just designed to be exteremly cheap.

Ppl also think mexican products are crappy...
Well. the ford fusion is made in Mexico. And it is rated as one of the most reliable car in North America. And guess what. a good portion of the Honda Accord sold in the US is made in mexico. and the Accord is also a quality leader.

Its not nessarily where a product is made that determines the quality... its WHO MAKES IT!
Well said.


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Re: China and U.S.A? - March 18th 2010, 08:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomb View Post
I dont think China alway produces crappy products..

Like...

Dells, and Apple computers are made in China too. Ipods are made in China.
Lol, epic fail =p

And there may be SOME good products from countries like China, but in the end most things are made there to make them cheaper, thus it generally means a lower build quality.
   
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