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X-Ray Security Scanners Coming Next Week - March 5th 2010, 02:14 AM

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/...n6267788.shtml

The Christmas Day attempt to blow up a jetliner over Detroit has put new urgency on finding better ways to screen passengers at airports.

Next week, the Transportation Security Administration will begin using the latest generation of full-body scanners, the agency's newest defense against a deadly terrorist weapon - a carry-on bomb, reports CBS News correspondent Bob Orr.

Complete Coverage: Christmas Day Terror Attack

First to put them to the test will be Boston's Logan International Airport, where 10 of the 9/11 hijackers boarded planes that crashed into the World Trade Center.

The full body X-ray scanner - the first of 450 new machines being deployed across the United States - will start screening passengers Monday for hard-to-detect explosives.

In a demonstration, screener Kelly McLain spots a potential danger. She's suspicious of something on a passenger's body and sends the passenger to a body scanner, where she can check her suspicions against an X-ray image.

Lee Kair, TSA's assistant administrator for security, told Orr that the image won't be spread among the security staff.

"Absolutely not," Kair said. "The only person who sees it is one individual back in the remote viewing area."

Acting TSA Administrator Gale Rossides said the images are not kept.

"These images cannot be stored," Rossides said. "An officer cannot print off the image. So as soon as that analysis is made of that image, that image is destroyed."

Still, privacy advocates ridicule the scanner as an ineffective "virtual strip search."

"This is kind of security theater," said Christopher Calabrese of the American Civil Liberties Union. "I mean, terrorists are going to be able to find places where these are not in place. You're not going to be able to get them everywhere."

He's right.

There are 40 body scanners that use a different technology already in place, like at Miami International Airport. This new wave of 450 will bring the total to 490 full-body scanners, not enough for the roughly 2,100 airport security lanes in the United States.

To cover the gap, the TSA will rely on a random selection process. When passengers arrive at a checkpoint, some will still go through standard metal detectors while others will be sent for full-body scans.

There are also questions about effectiveness. The Government Accountability Office recently concluded it was "unclear" if the scanners would have detected the underwear bomb Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab smuggled aboard Northwest Airlines Flight 253 on Christmas Day.

Technology rushed to the security front has not always worked either.

The U.S. spent $36 million on 200 explosive-detecting puffer machines which ultimately proved unreliable.

Security officials say the X-ray scanners will work, but they know terrorists are already looking for vulnerabilities.

"They are very adaptive," Rossides said. "They are very smart. They are studying what we do."

One more point: passengers can refuse the full-body scan, but those who do will receive a pat down.



Good Idea or bad?


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Re: X-Ray Security Scanners Coming Next Week - March 5th 2010, 02:16 AM

Obviously a good idea, anything to help stop terrorism on planes is good news.
People shouldnt be able to refuse. Regardless of embarrasement.
   
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Re: X-Ray Security Scanners Coming Next Week - March 5th 2010, 03:11 AM

I remember this thread a while back. I still think it's a good idea, better than being searched, and the images are destroyed anyway, so you still have some privacy.


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Re: X-Ray Security Scanners Coming Next Week - March 5th 2010, 03:41 AM

Finally, I think this is a great invention. I mean I’m Ok with a security officer looking at a white and black picture of me than a crazy person getting on the same plane as me with a bomb or something.


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Re: X-Ray Security Scanners Coming Next Week - March 5th 2010, 11:47 AM

i also think it's a good idea .
   
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Re: X-Ray Security Scanners Coming Next Week - March 5th 2010, 01:22 PM

I think this is a perfectly good idea because it can better ensure one's safety on the airplane. It may breach some of one's privacy but it then begs the question, which is more important: safety or losing some privacy but not all privacy temporarily?
   
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Re: X-Ray Security Scanners Coming Next Week - March 5th 2010, 02:39 PM

i think it's a great idea. i don't see why anyone would refuse it unless they had something to hide.. surely they would want to protect their own safety.


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Re: X-Ray Security Scanners Coming Next Week - March 6th 2010, 11:04 PM

Wait, does it actually use X-rays or was this just poorly named? If so, I'd say no, I don't want radiation poisoning.

Anyway, I still don't like the idea. I would refuse it. Terrorism is way overhyped. I am not concerned about it. Somehow I doubt many people would care if it wasn't such a big deal in the news. I can understand having some security checks, but this is ridiculous. If someone wanted to sneak something onto a plane, they would find a way to do it. We shouldn't be violating innocent people who just want to get somewhere. I travel to places by plane usually a couple times every year and I can honestly say I have never been concerned about terrorist attacks. You should probably be more worried about all the other crime that's going on.


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Re: X-Ray Security Scanners Coming Next Week - March 6th 2010, 11:19 PM

^ They're not going to give you radiation poisoning, I assume just poorly named.

Good idea, don't see the problem, but how is this news? I thought they'd been out for ages.

If you would rather not fly than let a black and white image of yourself be seen by one security officer that has been fully cleared, for a very short amount of time, don't go to the airport expecting to fly. Refusing = no flight. Simple.


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Re: X-Ray Security Scanners Coming Next Week - March 7th 2010, 03:45 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toast View Post
Wait, does it actually use X-rays or was this just poorly named? If so, I'd say no, I don't want radiation poisoning.
You won't get any significant radiation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toast View Post
Anyway, I still don't like the idea. I would refuse it. Terrorism is way overhyped. I am not concerned about it. Somehow I doubt many people would care if it wasn't such a big deal in the news. I can understand having some security checks, but this is ridiculous. If someone wanted to sneak something onto a plane, they would find a way to do it. We shouldn't be violating innocent people who just want to get somewhere. I travel to places by plane usually a couple times every year and I can honestly say I have never been concerned about terrorist attacks. You should probably be more worried about all the other crime that's going on.
You may not be concerned and that's fine, however, for security purposes, for those who are, is it really that big of a deal to have a vague image of your body shown then detailed pretty fast? By those who are concerned I mean the security and airline agencies. If you refuse, then you don't fly. If you're innocent, you have nothing to hide as you're not getting a detailed image of your body shown.
   
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Re: X-Ray Security Scanners Coming Next Week - March 7th 2010, 07:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by !!!YOU'RE$NUCKING$FUTZ!!! View Post
If you refuse, then you don't fly. If you're innocent, you have nothing to hide as you're not getting a detailed image of your body shown.
That's stupid(and not true. They said those who refuse will get a pat-down instead). There are some people who just feel uncomfortable with it. It doesn't mean you're planning to blow up the plane. Aren't these also the ones that children under 18 can't use? If it's not sexual....


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Re: X-Ray Security Scanners Coming Next Week - March 7th 2010, 08:00 PM

I think it is a great idea! It would make me feel safer in a way. I wonder if i had to go through it, if they could see the metal plates and bars on my spine.


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Re: X-Ray Security Scanners Coming Next Week - March 7th 2010, 08:34 PM

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I think it is a great idea! It would make me feel safer in a way. I wonder if i had to go through it, if they could see the metal plates and bars on my spine.
I was wondering the same thing.
But I think it's a good idea.


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Re: X-Ray Security Scanners Coming Next Week - March 8th 2010, 01:00 AM

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That's stupid(and not true. They said those who refuse will get a pat-down instead). There are some people who just feel uncomfortable with it. It doesn't mean you're planning to blow up the plane. Aren't these also the ones that children under 18 can't use? If it's not sexual....
A pat down is more invading of one's privacy than a mere photograph is because you have people touching you. Children under 18 I'm not sure whether they simply use a pat-down or the full body x-ray scanner although in either case, I can see a potential argument for invasion of privacy.
   
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Re: X-Ray Security Scanners Coming Next Week - March 9th 2010, 02:40 AM

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A pat down is more invading of one's privacy than a mere photograph is because you have people touching you.
That's your opinion. I would feel more comfortable with a pat-down than a picture.

What about people with body issues? Should they not be allowed to fly just because they have the unfortunate mind set of being uncomfortable with their body?

I'm also a bit concerned about radiation.


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Re: X-Ray Security Scanners Coming Next Week - March 9th 2010, 03:11 AM

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That's your opinion. I would feel more comfortable with a pat-down than a picture.

What about people with body issues? Should they not be allowed to fly just because they have the unfortunate mind set of being uncomfortable with their body?

I'm also a bit concerned about radiation.
As for arguments about privacy, you don't have that right when you get in line to go on a plane... they search and seize as they see fit.
As for radiation there is apparently very little not enough to harm you.


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Re: X-Ray Security Scanners Coming Next Week - March 9th 2010, 03:29 AM

Quote:
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A pat down is more invading of one's privacy than a mere photograph is because you have people touching you. Children under 18 I'm not sure whether they simply use a pat-down or the full body x-ray scanner although in either case, I can see a potential argument for invasion of privacy.
Children should be excluded.


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Re: X-Ray Security Scanners Coming Next Week - March 9th 2010, 04:26 AM

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What about people with body issues? Should they not be allowed to fly just because they have the unfortunate mind set of being uncomfortable with their body?
The person will get checked whether it's via pat-down or x-ray image so if someone is concerned over their appearance, then I'd imagine they'd be pretty concerned if someone was patting them all over. Perhaps I'm wrong on this but to me, it seems a bit odd that someone who is uncomfortable with how they look would be more willing to have someone look at them while physically touching them versus a quick picture and not get physically touched.

Either way, they're going to be checked by security and if they're too paranoid about getting an x-ray, then either they'll suck it up and deal with it or they'll get a pat-down all over their body. To me, a pat-down is much more invasive because you have someone feeling your body all over.

Quote:
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I'm also a bit concerned about radiation.
There's not enough radiation to cause any harm so you're being concerned over something that's insignificant.

Quote:
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Children should be excluded.
Excluded from what? Pat-downs? X-ray scanning? Both?
   
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Re: X-Ray Security Scanners Coming Next Week - March 9th 2010, 05:24 AM

I think it's good idea. Whatever it takes to keep me safe personally. I'd prefer that then a pat-down by the police anyday.


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Re: X-Ray Security Scanners Coming Next Week - March 9th 2010, 03:01 PM

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Children should be excluded.
Then children will start being used to carry weapons and bombs onto planes. Surely children will be the least concerned about this? They either won't know what is going on or won't care, I swear I used to run around naked until I was like 10.

All employers will be completey vetted that it's impossible to save the images. So I don't think anyone should be excluded from this.

And yes, I think that if you object to the scan you should be prevented from flying. When you get in line to fly you accept that the safety of all passengers is going to be placed above you being fully comfortable with an image or a pat down. Your body image problems are quite frankly your problem, not the airlines, deal with it. Who actually is comfortable with their body these days anyway?

I would say that having a female operators for female flyers and visa versa would be appropriate though, as otherwise it would intrude on many religious beliefs, which it does not if it is same sex.


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Re: X-Ray Security Scanners Coming Next Week - March 9th 2010, 04:36 PM

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Then children will start being used to carry weapons and bombs onto planes. Surely children will be the least concerned about this? They either won't know what is going on or won't care, I swear I used to run around naked until I was like 10.

All employers will be completey vetted that it's impossible to save the images. So I don't think anyone should be excluded from this.

And yes, I think that if you object to the scan you should be prevented from flying. When you get in line to fly you accept that the safety of all passengers is going to be placed above you being fully comfortable with an image or a pat down. Your body image problems are quite frankly your problem, not the airlines, deal with it. Who actually is comfortable with their body these days anyway?

I would say that having a female operators for female flyers and visa versa would be appropriate though, as otherwise it would intrude on many religious beliefs, which it does not if it is same sex.
I wonder where the flaw is in these machines that claim to detect bombs ect.


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Re: X-Ray Security Scanners Coming Next Week - March 9th 2010, 05:12 PM

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I wonder where the flaw is in these machines that claim to detect bombs ect.
Sorry what?


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Re: X-Ray Security Scanners Coming Next Week - March 10th 2010, 02:46 AM

I think they are a good idea, however, I question the effectiveness of the scanners. There is a person watching hundreds of similar images go past constantly, and being human, this person's mind will probably wander from time to time, and that's just enough to let someone with a concealed bomb through every once in a while.


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Re: X-Ray Security Scanners Coming Next Week - March 10th 2010, 07:02 AM

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I wonder where the flaw is in these machines that claim to detect bombs ect.
Since it uses X-rays, if the bomb is completely the same density as bone, then it may go undetected but depending on how much detail is shown, the bomb may be differentiable or it may show a rather suspicious bulge somewhere, which would be grounds for a pat-down.
   
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Re: X-Ray Security Scanners Coming Next Week - March 10th 2010, 07:43 AM

I'm not overly bothered by this. Obviously there's the whole "human rights - they see us naked!!" arguement. But if you see the images they see, they're not exactly detailed. I think there should maybe be restrictions on scanning kids ... that goes against what I just said, and I don't know why I think it but heh.
I'd far rather someone see a ghostly image of me sort of naked than have a pat down. Not like I have to face the person or anything ...


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Re: X-Ray Security Scanners Coming Next Week - March 11th 2010, 03:41 AM

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I'm not overly bothered by this. Obviously there's the whole "human rights - they see us naked!!" arguement. But if you see the images they see, they're not exactly detailed. I think there should maybe be restrictions on scanning kids ... that goes against what I just said, and I don't know why I think it but heh.
I'd far rather someone see a ghostly image of me sort of naked than have a pat down. Not like I have to face the person or anything ...
If there are restrictions on scanning children, then how are they cleared by security? A pat-down is more invasive because someone is physically handling you and the airline simply cannot allow for children to go unchecked because it makes them as perfect opportunities for bringing weapons or even a bomb onboard the plane.

If I were a parent, I'd say I allow it for children and I'd be well aware of the issue of my child being scanned so a naked picture of them is seen but the reason I allow it is so other children as well as my own can be checked so as to increase the chances of no weapons or bombs or similar things being brought out while in the air.

Alternatively, if the kids don't get checked, they don't fly but I doubt this option would be supported by many.
   
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