TeenHelp
Support Forums Today's Posts

Get Advice Connect with TeenHelp Resources
HelpLINK Facebook     Twitter     Tumblr     Instagram    Hotlines    Safety Zone    Alternatives

You are not registered or have not logged in

Hello guest! (Not a guest? Log in above!)

As a guest on TeenHelp you are only able to use some of our site's features. By registering an account you will be able to enjoy unlimited access to our site, and will be able to:

  • Connect with thousands of teenagers worldwide by actively taking part in our Support Forums and Chat Room.
  • Find others with similar interests in our Social Groups.
  • Express yourself through our Blogs, Picture Albums and User Profiles.
  • And much much more!

Signing up is free, anonymous and will only take a few moments, so click here to register now!


Current Events and Debates For discussions and friendly debates about politics and current events, check out this forum.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  (#1 (permalink)) Old
Hdjdjdjduvieg Offline
Wandering Wayfarer
I've been here a while
********
 
Hdjdjdjduvieg's Avatar
 
Name: no

Posts: 1,127
Join Date: January 6th 2009

Freedom of speech-- Should ACLU protect white supremacy? - March 11th 2010, 05:58 PM

The question stands.
In terms of Freedom of Speech, where are lines draw?
Should ACLU protect the rights to freedom of speech of white supremacists?


My answer is YES. If Muslims are allowed (which they really shouldn't be given there is a difference between FoS and inciting hatred/threats) to burn American flags on the streets of New York City, then White supremacists should be allowed to verbalize their ideals. The popular idea should not be the only one allowed to be verbalized, even if I agree- racism is outdated, archaic and plainly ignorant. But then where would the censorship stop: What about black supremacy (e.g. Reverend Wright [Obama's Pastor])?

Obviously violence excluded from this. Merely freedom of speech. What say you?


I love the name of honour more than I fear death.
   
  (#2 (permalink)) Old
Prozac Offline
Member
I can't get enough
*********
 
Prozac's Avatar
 

Posts: 3,499
Blog Entries: 108
Join Date: January 8th 2009

Re: Freedom of speech-- Should ACLU protect white supremacy? - March 11th 2010, 06:08 PM

I believe that everybody should be allowed to verbalize their thoughts and opinions and therefore, yes, I do believe that the ACLU should protect the rights to freedom of speech of white supremacists.

Last edited by Prozac; March 11th 2010 at 07:00 PM.
   
  (#3 (permalink)) Old
Algernon Offline
CPT-1 Phlebotomist
Outside, huh?
**********
 
Algernon's Avatar
 
Name: Holly
Age: 28
Gender: Female
Location: Roseville, California

Posts: 4,124
Join Date: January 21st 2009

Re: Freedom of speech-- Should ACLU protect white supremacy? - March 11th 2010, 06:42 PM

Sure, If they want to say it, go ahead. I know that German pride/white pride kid is going to post here soon anyway...

But honestly, society will probably look down upon them, just like any other race that thinks they are superior.


Geek? Nerd? More like intellectual badass.

"You ran through Africa, and Asia, and Indonesia.. And now I've found you, and I love you. I want to know your name."
  Send a message via Yahoo to Algernon  
  (#4 (permalink)) Old
.:Bibliophile:. Offline
PM me anytime!

TeenHelp Veteran
*************
 
.:Bibliophile:.'s Avatar
 
Gender: Just me

Posts: 16,720
Blog Entries: 1770
Join Date: January 18th 2009

Re: Freedom of speech-- Should ACLU protect white supremacy? - March 11th 2010, 07:55 PM

Yes, I do. I mean if some white supremacist is fired because of their veiws or what not than I think they should be protected because of freedom of speech.

EVERYONE has the right to freedom of speech. Whether or not I agree with it. I can walk away, express my own view etc. So, in the end I don't have to take offense...


|Lead Moderator|Newsletter Officer|
   
  (#5 (permalink)) Old
Casey. Offline
Dance with me
I can't get enough
*********
 
Casey.'s Avatar
 
Name: Casey
Age: 29
Gender: Female
Location: Somewhere in my mind

Posts: 2,343
Blog Entries: 337
Join Date: January 6th 2009

Re: Freedom of speech-- Should ACLU protect white supremacy? - March 11th 2010, 09:02 PM

I think it depends. Freedom of Speech is great, but isn't it anything that endangers the public good isn't allowed? Sure, everyone has the right to freedom of speech, but that doesn't mean we have to agree with the poison they spew.


She whispered to her own reflection "I will be strong."

"I am not what has happened to me.I am what I have chosen to become."- Carl Jung

"If ye harm none, do as ye wish."

Sometimes things just happen.


Smile through the tears.


PM me

  Send a message via Yahoo to Casey.  
  (#6 (permalink)) Old
Xujhan Offline
Resident Atheist
I can't get enough
*********
 
Xujhan's Avatar
 
Name: Fletcher
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Location: Ontario, Canada

Posts: 2,024
Join Date: January 17th 2009

Re: Freedom of speech-- Should ACLU protect white supremacy? - March 11th 2010, 09:59 PM

Depends entirely on what the white supremacists are saying. "White people are awesome!" is acceptable, and yes it should be protected. "Non-white people are awful!" is hate speech, and as such should not be protected.


The atoms that make up you and me were born in the hearts of suns many times greater than ours, and in time our atoms will once again reside amongst the stars. Life is but an idle dalliance of the cosmos, frail, and soon forgotten. We have been set adrift in an ocean whose tides we are only beginning to comprehend and with that maturity has come the realization that we are, at least for now, alone. In that loneliness, it falls to us to shine as brightly as the stars from which we came.
  Send a message via MSN to Xujhan  
  (#7 (permalink)) Old
Guile Offline
Head Jimmie Rustler
I've been here a while
********
 
Guile's Avatar
 
Name: Guile
Gender: Male
Location: United States

Posts: 1,616
Join Date: January 24th 2010

Re: Freedom of speech-- Should ACLU protect white supremacy? - March 11th 2010, 10:38 PM

It depends, if they are making a violent stance like "Let's bring back lynching" then it shouldn't be allowed, just as burning the flag (when not putting it to rest) shouldn't be allowed. It is fine to say "We are great", but not to say "We are better then all of you and therefore we will exercise force over you". As long as they are only verbalizing their ideals it is fine, if they try to put them into action it is not. Nonetheless there is a difference between Pride and Supremacy, you can be proud of who you are (as I am), but that doesn't mean you believe you are supreme (which I do not believe). White pride is fine (along with black, hispanic, asian, etc), white supremacy is not.


Space Flight Awards

Geosynchronous Orbit (Kerbin)
Manned Capsule and return (Kerbin)
Space Station and Docking (Kerbin)
Equatorial/Polar Probe (Mun)
Landing Resulting in the Loss of a Kerbanaut (Mun)
   
  (#8 (permalink)) Old
Hdjdjdjduvieg Offline
Wandering Wayfarer
I've been here a while
********
 
Hdjdjdjduvieg's Avatar
 
Name: no

Posts: 1,127
Join Date: January 6th 2009

Re: Freedom of speech-- Should ACLU protect white supremacy? - March 11th 2010, 11:04 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xujhan View Post
Depends entirely on what the white supremacists are saying. "White people are awesome!" is acceptable, and yes it should be protected. "Non-white people are awful!" is hate speech, and as such should not be protected.
Now what about black people who say white people are worse? Or Muslims who call everyone Jews and say they are worse? Etc, etc, etc, etc... where does it stop? Censorship?

Until only the popular view is left?


I love the name of honour more than I fear death.
   
  (#9 (permalink)) Old
Stupidity Kills
Outside, huh?
**********
 
OMFG!You'reActuallySmart!'s Avatar
 

Posts: 4,500
Blog Entries: 10
Join Date: December 19th 2009

Re: Freedom of speech-- Should ACLU protect white supremacy? - March 11th 2010, 11:15 PM

I think saying "We're a great race" or "You're not a great race" is fine providing it does not involve simaltaneously saying "You're not a great race, time to rid you from the Earth". The reason I allow the first two is when you say something is great, it's a bare comparative, just like saying something isn't great. In other words, you're making a comparison but what it is being compared to isn't mentioned (hence the bare part). I think it's silly to allow the first sentence but not the second sentence.

I don't allow the third because that involves much more than simply saying the second sentence, it carries motive and implies people of that race will die because they're part of that race.

To me, hate speech is more along the lines of insulting one's race whereas making a comparison to another race or just a bare comparative doesn't seem hateful to me, it's not causing harm as it's a simple, empty-handed comparison with no threat.When the race is insulted verbally or is threatened, that I consider hate speech (and possibly discrimination and other things).
   
  (#10 (permalink)) Old
Hdjdjdjduvieg Offline
Wandering Wayfarer
I've been here a while
********
 
Hdjdjdjduvieg's Avatar
 
Name: no

Posts: 1,127
Join Date: January 6th 2009

Re: Freedom of speech-- Should ACLU protect white supremacy? - March 11th 2010, 11:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by !!!YOU'RE$NUCKING$FUTZ!!! View Post
I think saying "We're a great race" or "You're not a great race" is fine providing it does not involve simaltaneously saying "You're not a great race, time to rid you from the Earth". The reason I allow the first two is when you say something is great, it's a bare comparative, just like saying something isn't great. In other words, you're making a comparison but what it is being compared to isn't mentioned (hence the bare part). I think it's silly to allow the first sentence but not the second sentence.

I don't allow the third because that involves much more than simply saying the second sentence, it carries motive and implies people of that race will die because they're part of that race.

To me, hate speech is more along the lines of insulting one's race whereas making a comparison to another race or just a bare comparative doesn't seem hateful to me, it's not causing harm as it's a simple, empty-handed comparison with no threat.When the race is insulted verbally or is threatened, that I consider hate speech (and possibly discrimination and other things).
I agree. There is a fine line between freedom of speech and threats.


I love the name of honour more than I fear death.
   
  (#11 (permalink)) Old
Marvin Offline
Member
I've been here a while
********
 
Marvin's Avatar
 
Name: Marvin
Gender: Male
Location: USA

Posts: 1,576
Blog Entries: 1
Join Date: January 6th 2009

Re: Freedom of speech-- Should ACLU protect white supremacy? - March 12th 2010, 03:25 AM

I agree with freedom of speech, but I believe it's context dependant. There is a time and a place for some theres, and not others. For example, even 'you are not a great race', is potentially a harmful statement, and although I believe people should be allowed to voice this, I don't believe they should be allowed to voice it, simply in any place they choose. For example, in an educational facilaty, people have the right to learn in a comfortable, safe enviroment, without degrading statements thrown at them. Same for places of employment. Words can be powerful things. However, say its on a personal website, or in a club, and perhaps certain TV shows and other venues, then so long as it's not inciting hatred, its not such a big deal. I support platforms for even freedom of speech about things I disagree with.

The problem of burning flags on the other hand is something I've never quite understood. I mean, ok, it's making a statement, but some statements are justifable. If you say think the American government are acting innapropriately, burning a flag embodies your discontent, so what?

I don't believe hate speech from any group is appropriate. Be it Christians being homophobic, gays being violently anti-people of faith (e.g. 'lets kill the Christians), Muslims against whoever, people of a race toward people of another race (black, white or whatever), etc. Hate speech is hate speech. And just because something does occur, or some groups seem more censored then others, doesn't mean its right, nor do many other people.
   
  (#12 (permalink)) Old
Xujhan Offline
Resident Atheist
I can't get enough
*********
 
Xujhan's Avatar
 
Name: Fletcher
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Location: Ontario, Canada

Posts: 2,024
Join Date: January 17th 2009

Re: Freedom of speech-- Should ACLU protect white supremacy? - March 12th 2010, 04:06 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phin View Post
Now what about black people who say white people are worse? Or Muslims who call everyone Jews and say they are worse? Etc, etc, etc, etc... where does it stop? Censorship?
Yes. Criminalizing hate speech is a form of censorship. I don't see your point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phin View Post
Until only the popular view is left?
The popular view being "No group is intrinsically awful, we should all strive to get along despite our differences?" If only.


The atoms that make up you and me were born in the hearts of suns many times greater than ours, and in time our atoms will once again reside amongst the stars. Life is but an idle dalliance of the cosmos, frail, and soon forgotten. We have been set adrift in an ocean whose tides we are only beginning to comprehend and with that maturity has come the realization that we are, at least for now, alone. In that loneliness, it falls to us to shine as brightly as the stars from which we came.
  Send a message via MSN to Xujhan  
  (#13 (permalink)) Old
Guile Offline
Head Jimmie Rustler
I've been here a while
********
 
Guile's Avatar
 
Name: Guile
Gender: Male
Location: United States

Posts: 1,616
Join Date: January 24th 2010

Re: Freedom of speech-- Should ACLU protect white supremacy? - March 12th 2010, 04:29 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xujhan View Post
The popular view being "No group is intrinsically awful, we should all strive to get along despite our differences?" If only.
Does the include the terrorists and the Nazi?


Space Flight Awards

Geosynchronous Orbit (Kerbin)
Manned Capsule and return (Kerbin)
Space Station and Docking (Kerbin)
Equatorial/Polar Probe (Mun)
Landing Resulting in the Loss of a Kerbanaut (Mun)
   
  (#14 (permalink)) Old
Gidig Offline
Optimistic pessimist
I can't get enough
*********
 
Gidig's Avatar
 
Name: Maria
Age: 27
Gender: Female
Location: Colorado

Posts: 2,123
Blog Entries: 390
Join Date: January 5th 2009

Re: Freedom of speech-- Should ACLU protect white supremacy? - March 12th 2010, 05:34 AM

We had a huge debate in my philosophy class about if the government should allow the KKK to march.
I think yes. While I don't agree with their views, if they feel strongly about it, they should be able to voice that. And I want to voice my views, even though some people don't agree with that. Equality comes into play here.

If I was going and burning down homophobic peoples houses and burning them on crosses that'd be a bit different though.



The best wayout is always through~
-Robert Frost

Proud member of the LGBT community.

   
  (#15 (permalink)) Old
l0stCause Offline
chaos walks
Junior TeenHelper
****
 
l0stCause's Avatar
 
Age: 27

Posts: 277
Join Date: November 17th 2009

Re: Freedom of speech-- Should ACLU protect white supremacy? - March 13th 2010, 03:06 PM

in order for free speech to survive it has to apply to all.


“Chaos is the score upon which reality is written.”
   
  (#16 (permalink)) Old
Yen Offline
Resident Leprechaun
Regular TeenHelper
*****
 
Yen's Avatar
 
Name: Ian
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Location: Oregon

Posts: 352
Join Date: October 21st 2009

Re: Freedom of speech-- Should ACLU protect white supremacy? - March 13th 2010, 03:18 PM

Every one should have a right to voice their opinions. If they choose to live their lives in petty, meaningless devotion to hatred, then it's their choice. However, it should also follow that if they have the right to voice hatred, they shouldn't get angry and call me a bigot when I call them on their meaningless bullshit that they believe. It's my free speech


"Why isn't bull-riding (Beef NASCAR as I call it) the American sport to end all sports? It's an epic battle of the wills between a man and an angry cheeseburger; and if that doesn't typify our awesome civilization, I don't know what does."
   
  (#17 (permalink)) Old
Hdjdjdjduvieg Offline
Wandering Wayfarer
I've been here a while
********
 
Hdjdjdjduvieg's Avatar
 
Name: no

Posts: 1,127
Join Date: January 6th 2009

Re: Freedom of speech-- Should ACLU protect white supremacy? - March 13th 2010, 10:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yen View Post
Every one should have a right to voice their opinions. If they choose to live their lives in petty, meaningless devotion to hatred, then it's their choice. However, it should also follow that if they have the right to voice hatred, they shouldn't get angry and call me a bigot when I call them on their meaningless bullshit that they believe. It's my free speech
They could, however, call you rude

I agree with Invert's 'in school' point...
Considering you forfeit most of your freedom of speech/expression rights in school as it is (you can't wear that shirt that reads "I play with my weiner" etc, or call the teacher a two-bob cunt) then there certainly is no case for white supremecy or any of that sort in that environment.

But as for the flag burning... I'd liken it to manslaughter in the way of it truly depends upon your intent. If you're burning the flag to promote terrorism, then it is not right. Protesting the gov't... well, I would say it's not right either, but it's not as threatening.


I love the name of honour more than I fear death.
   
  (#18 (permalink)) Old
Yen Offline
Resident Leprechaun
Regular TeenHelper
*****
 
Yen's Avatar
 
Name: Ian
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Location: Oregon

Posts: 352
Join Date: October 21st 2009

Re: Freedom of speech-- Should ACLU protect white supremacy? - March 13th 2010, 11:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phin View Post
They could, however, call you rude
Oh, I very much agree that they could call me rude. But if some one comes up to me and my Japanese friend and tells us that white people are supreme, then I'll tell them it's bullshit. Call me rude, call me what you like. I believe that hatred should be fought against no matter what. I'll speak "rudely" about hate speech at every opportunity until the day I die.

White supremecists can stick that in their hate-blunt and smoke it


"Why isn't bull-riding (Beef NASCAR as I call it) the American sport to end all sports? It's an epic battle of the wills between a man and an angry cheeseburger; and if that doesn't typify our awesome civilization, I don't know what does."
   
  (#19 (permalink)) Old
losing touch. Offline
oh, really?..
Jeez, get a life!
***********
 
losing touch.'s Avatar
 
Age: 26
Gender: Female
Location: UK

Posts: 5,996
Blog Entries: 537
Join Date: January 8th 2009

Re: Freedom of speech-- Should ACLU protect white supremacy? - March 14th 2010, 12:11 AM

yes of course people should be able to say whatever they want - however crazy their views are. the problem is people who have such extreme views may often not stop with just speech.


..and our dreams will break the boundaries of our fears..



   
  (#20 (permalink)) Old
Hdjdjdjduvieg Offline
Wandering Wayfarer
I've been here a while
********
 
Hdjdjdjduvieg's Avatar
 
Name: no

Posts: 1,127
Join Date: January 6th 2009

Re: Freedom of speech-- Should ACLU protect white supremacy? - March 14th 2010, 03:53 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yen View Post
Oh, I very much agree that they could call me rude. But if some one comes up to me and my Japanese friend and tells us that white people are supreme, then I'll tell them it's bullshit. Call me rude, call me what you like. I believe that hatred should be fought against no matter what. I'll speak "rudely" about hate speech at every opportunity until the day I die.

White supremecists can stick that in their hate-blunt and smoke it
I agree.. it is ignorant. But I am a firm believer in human decency, and acting properly regardless of situation...
Although I sometimes ride the "YOU LIE!" train when it comes to views that are so obscenely out of scope to the person's knowledge...


I love the name of honour more than I fear death.
   
  (#21 (permalink)) Old
Marvin Offline
Member
I've been here a while
********
 
Marvin's Avatar
 
Name: Marvin
Gender: Male
Location: USA

Posts: 1,576
Blog Entries: 1
Join Date: January 6th 2009

Re: Freedom of speech-- Should ACLU protect white supremacy? - March 14th 2010, 04:21 AM

I dont understand this importance people put on flags? I love my country (Canada), yet I dont feel bad that my flag is probably shoved under my bed somewhere collecting dust. Its a piece of material, it isnt actually my country. Admittedly if its inciting violence/fear intentionally, then theres an issue of inciting violence/fear, regardless of a flag or not.
   
  (#22 (permalink)) Old
Yen Offline
Resident Leprechaun
Regular TeenHelper
*****
 
Yen's Avatar
 
Name: Ian
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Location: Oregon

Posts: 352
Join Date: October 21st 2009

Re: Freedom of speech-- Should ACLU protect white supremacy? - March 14th 2010, 04:36 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phin View Post
I agree.. it is ignorant. But I am a firm believer in human decency, and acting properly regardless of situation...
Although I sometimes ride the "YOU LIE!" train when it comes to views that are so obscenely out of scope to the person's knowledge...
I will be decent to those who are decent back. I show respect to those who have and show respect to others. I hold no respect for anyone who goes out of their way to spout mindless hate.


"Why isn't bull-riding (Beef NASCAR as I call it) the American sport to end all sports? It's an epic battle of the wills between a man and an angry cheeseburger; and if that doesn't typify our awesome civilization, I don't know what does."
   
  (#23 (permalink)) Old
TigerTank77 Offline
Rage is the best anesthetic
I've been here a while
********
 
TigerTank77's Avatar
 
Name: Ben
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Location: NY

Posts: 1,534
Join Date: January 5th 2009

Re: Freedom of speech-- Should ACLU protect white supremacy? - March 14th 2010, 04:38 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yen View Post
I will be decent to those who are decent back. I show respect to those who have and show respect to others. I hold no respect for anyone who goes out of their way to spout mindless hate.
A-men brotha.


Often I lie wide awake, thinking of things I could make.
But I don’t seem to have the parts to build them.
I am so scared of what will kill me in the end, for I am not prepared.
I hope I will get the chance to be someone, to be human.





  Send a message via AIM to TigerTank77 Send a message via MSN to TigerTank77 Send a message via Skype™ to TigerTank77 
  (#24 (permalink)) Old
Frosty Offline
Member
Senior TeenHelper
*******
 
Frosty's Avatar
 
Age: 28

Posts: 790
Join Date: January 7th 2009

Re: Freedom of speech-- Should ACLU protect white supremacy? - March 14th 2010, 08:19 AM

The ACLU can do whatever it wants, but as to the larger issue of whether they should have the right to their opinions, of course. Freedom of speech means freedom of speech, not freedom to speak whatever the government finds agreeable.
   
  (#25 (permalink)) Old
TheNumber42 Offline
Dolan
I can't get enough
*********
 
TheNumber42's Avatar
 
Name: Cody
Age: 27
Gender: Male
Location: USA

Posts: 2,145
Blog Entries: 5
Join Date: January 6th 2009

Re: Freedom of speech-- Should ACLU protect white supremacy? - March 15th 2010, 06:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yen View Post
I will be decent to those who are decent back. I show respect to those who have and show respect to others. I hold no respect for anyone who goes out of their way to spout mindless hate.
Definitely agree with this.


Overall, I don't think anything that isn't a blatant attack or threat should be censored. Everyone has different views and I want to be able to express my views, so it's important that everyone else can too.


~Cody

Normal User
   
  (#26 (permalink)) Old
Toast Offline
lostinaworldofhate
I've been here a while
********
 
Toast's Avatar
 
Name: Toast
Gender: Female
Location: Canada

Posts: 1,285
Join Date: January 9th 2009

Re: Freedom of speech-- Should ACLU protect white supremacy? - March 18th 2010, 02:13 AM

You have the right to say anything you want within reason. For example(My English teacher was talking about this once), you can't scream "fire" in a crowded theatre and claim you can't be held responsible for the person killed in the panic because it was your freedom of speech.

I think that people have the right to verbalize any opinion they want; I also have the right to disagree.


Heaven is high and earth wide. If you ride three feet higher above the ground than other men, you will know what that means. ~Rudolf C. Binding
   
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Tags
aclu, freedom, protect, speech, supremacy, white

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




All material copyright ©1998-2019, TeenHelp.
Terms | Legal | Privacy | Conduct | Complaints

Powered by vBulletin®.
Copyright ©2000-2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search engine optimization by vBSEO.
Theme developed in association with vBStyles.