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Do You think those Who Commit Suicide are Selfish? - March 18th 2010, 03:03 PM

This thread has been labeled as triggering, particularly on the subject of suicide, by the original poster or by a Moderator. The contents of this thread therefore might not be suitable for certain sensitive users. Please take this into consideration before continuing to read.

I was reading a recent thread, and I found it astounding that people could blame those who commit suicide, call them selfish, weak-minded, etc.

People who commit suicide are not in the frame of mind to be able to consider anything outside the means to rid themselves of the emotional or physical pain they are in. Its not selfish when you don't think you have a choice.

Anyways, what do you think?

EDIT: I speak as one who attempted suicide, and had to stay in a mental illness ward for 2 weeks.

Last edited by PhoenixAlive; March 18th 2010 at 03:21 PM.
   
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Re: Do You think those Who Commit Suicide are Selfish? - March 18th 2010, 03:13 PM

Yes, I think it's extremely selfish, being perfectly honest. Sure, you won't have to suffer any more but everybody you leave behind will. It's selfish, I don't see how somebody could say it isn't.

By the way, before anyone attacks me, I am suicidal. Have been for years. But I still believe it's selfish. Especially if done in a way that makes others suffer, for example jumping in front of a train. It's horrible to put the train driver through that. (And again, this is something I myself have considered sooo...)
   
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Re: Do You think those Who Commit Suicide are Selfish? - March 18th 2010, 03:18 PM

I agree with you Nicola, I think it is selfish sometimes...but NOT always, it depends on the person't reasons i think, and method. I am also suicidal, so don't attck me please.
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Re: Do You think those Who Commit Suicide are Selfish? - March 18th 2010, 03:19 PM

yes, i think it is selfish but at the same time i don't think that when people are suicidal the first thing on their mind it whether they are being selfish or not. usually it's something people do out of desperation not to spite others. i do not think people who commit suicide are weak minded i just think they needed help. i do know a few people who committed suicide and i've felt more sad/guilty than angry towards them.


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Re: Do You think those Who Commit Suicide are Selfish? - March 18th 2010, 04:00 PM

My opinions:

Suicide is a very selfish act. You put other people through pain and hardship to relieve yourself of the same burden; that's selfish. But it doesn't always follow that a person committing suicide is themselves very selfish. In fact, generally selfish people don't strike me as the type who are typically at risk of being suicidal.


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Re: Do You think those Who Commit Suicide are Selfish? - March 18th 2010, 04:13 PM

To be clear and before anyone attacks me: I've tried to commit suicide once, and I'm suicidal.
But yes, I think that commiting suicide is a selfish act. I don't blame the suicidals and people who commited it to be selfish, not at all. Its not because you do a selfish act, that you are selfish. For example: you are in a group somewhere (f.e. the desert). You are really very hungry, and you are nearly going to die if you don't eat. You find a piece of cake and a glass of coke or anything else to eat. You know that if you're going to cut it into parts and give everyone a part, you won't be selfish but you won't survive. But if you eat it on your own, you are being selfish, but you can survive. In other words: you have no choice but being selfish.
Suicidal people don't see any other opportunity then being selfish and commit suicide.

Honestly, when I feel suicidal, I always think: "I'm not going to do it anyway, because I know it will hurt my family and friends." I saw how my sister and my parents were hurt when I tried it. I don't want to hurt them like that again.
So for anyone who feels suicidal: you should think: "There's always an opportunity to do something good with my life."
   
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Re: Do You think those Who Commit Suicide are Selfish? - March 18th 2010, 04:21 PM

Okay, lets see if I can explain this in a good way.

Funny thing about this question is I was thinking about it yesterday. Not because I want to commit suicide but because I have tried on 2 occasions in the past.

Okay, so looking back on how I felt when I tried to kill myself I did not think that there was really anyone in my life who cared. My parents were doing their own thing; they were fighting all the time, ignoring me, making things worse on me in a lot of different ways. My brothers and I had and still do kind of have a rocky relationship. My oldest brother had always been extremely mean and I though that he hated me. My other brother was/is such a selfish person that he never thought about how his behavior affected me (he is still that way.) The only people that I thought cared about me were my nieces and nephew. Lexi was 7 or 8 and the other two were 1 and a new born. So, my reasoning behind it was that while they would miss me they would be able to overcome it. I figured that they would have never really gotten to know me. As for Lexi, I had a grandpa who died at her age and my irrational thinking was that the pain from my death would dwindle with time just like I thought the pain over my grandfather had.

So, yes, suicide is a very selfish act but you have to look at it from a suicidal persons mind before you make any judgments. If a person truly believes that no one cares enough about them and that the few people that care will forget them with time why would they stay around in that type of pain?

See, I had been going to therapy for a couple of months when I first tried to kill myself and it wasn't working. I started feeling worse. I then went to a psychiatrist a few days before I did it and I still felt like shit. I felt like I had been waiting for so damn long to get better and I was in so much pain that waiting was pointless.

The fact is, I had been making plans to kill myself for months but I never took those pills because I thought things would get better. The night I actually tried to kill myself I just felt blank inside. I saw my dreams for the future as black. I had nothing to live for.

And I think that is the thing a lot of people do not consider when it comes to suicide. The person is not in the right frame of mind to think "Man I am being selfish. There really are a lot of people who care..." It really does not work like that.

With all the help that I have gotten I have finally come to see that there are a lot of people in my life that care about me. My father, my brothers, and some of the many friends I have made. Right now I am at a point in life where whenever I think of suicide I think "No I do not want to lose the people I have. I do not want to hurt them." But, three years ago I did not have that. I did not have the type of friends I have today and I did not have the knowledge I now have about my family.

That is why I think everyone should keep holding on because with time things will change. They will learn things about themselves and the people in their lives etc. However I can totally understand why holding on can seem like too much.


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Re: Do You think those Who Commit Suicide are Selfish? - March 18th 2010, 04:28 PM

Let me just clarify before I start discussing my opinion (which I've already said in my last thread but I kinda like this topic so I'll respond deeper in depth ) that I know what it's like to feel depressed. I've definitely contemplated suicide and made a couple attempts AT attempting suicide, but obviously not following through. Whether I had a reason for being depressed or not is debatable, but my opinion is just an opinion. If you're gonna call me ignorant or whatever, be sure to explain why.

With that being said, this is my opinion:

Depression really sucks and it really affects your life temporarily. It's powerful, but I strongly believe that people who are depressed have morals. I believe that just because you're depressed, doesn't mean you're this helpless human being who can't do the right thing. Why is it that people who are depressed (or at least the people that I know are depressed) still stop at stop signs, stop lights, etc? It's because at the end of the day, you make your own choices. If you're depressed, you are in no way shape or form obligated to commit suicide. You just want to commit suicide because you're depressed, but that doesn't mean you're going to commit suicide -- it's all based on a choice. If you choose to commit suicide, that is your choice. People can influence your decision, but they can't make that decision for you. You are responsible for your actions. This is where I say that suicide is for the weak-minded because there is a very limited number of circumstances where suicide is acceptable. And I'm talking about very limited as in EXTREME circumstances such as being slowly tortured to death. We're talking about situations where your survival rate is very low. You ever hear in movies or whatever talking about "suicide missions"? When is a mission not a suicide mission? When there's statistically a low chance of survival. But what we're talking about is depression, which is a chemical imbalance in the brain that makes us feel like shit. It's a temporary state of being unless you completely devote your life to being miserable. Psychology backs me up when I say that humans go through homeostasis...where we adapt to our environments. So if we feel like crap for a period of time, our brains will actually be like "oh shit, we need to fix that" once it realizes that something is wrong. And not only that, but if we smile a lot more often, you can actually convince your brain that your happy.

Let me stress that depression is a temporary state of being. This is not AIDS we're talking about, something that cannot be cured right now, we're talking about something that can be handled many different ways...whether it's taking medication, whether it's through homeostasis. Suicide is an option, but there is a list full of other options to choose from. If you choose suicide over something that's temporarily affecting your state of being in a negative way, then that's weak minded. Because what homeostasis also tells us is that we can get over depression. Maybe our circumstances will never change, such as you're still single, or you're in an abusive relationship, whatever it is, your body can learn to cope with it. The brain is very powerful. I learned ALL OF THIS through reading books -- I coped with depression by educating myself, taking Psychology classes, and just being aware of my environment. Yes, it took a while to put forth effort because during the first year or so with my depression, I too thought that suicide was "the only way out". I thought that what people told me about "suicide being a permanent solution to a temporary problem" was bullshit. I was in denial. I was weak-minded and essentially didn't take anyone's advice because "they didn't understand me". And I didn't even tell my parents about this until I threatened to kill myself and my friend called the cops and 30 minutes later, the cops showed up on my door step with my mom right by there side. THEN I realized...oh shit, I just fucked up. Now everyone knows, and there is no way of avoiding it now. Now that everyone knew, circumstances changed. My parents offered to take me to therapy, my friends became concerned about what I've been feeling lately. If I told my friend and killed myself within those 30 minutes, I would've died with the cops showing up at the door, my mom in tears, and my friends mourning over me when they would have no idea why I wanted to commit suicide in the first place. So yes, I would say that suicide is selfish because before that suicide incident even occurred, I felt like I had no one to turn to. I felt alone and that I was destined to die. And years later, I read an article or whatever that said that most teenagers think that they're going to die before the age of 18. That doesn't really surprise me. I'm 19 now.



Last edited by Brandon; March 18th 2010 at 04:36 PM.
   
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Re: Do You think those Who Commit Suicide are Selfish? - March 18th 2010, 04:41 PM

I believe that unless it was a successful attempt out of a bid for attention that it isn't selfish, it just seems that way and yes I've been through this and lost people to it. Do I blame them? Absolutely not, they didn't do it to hurt others they did it out of a desparate attempt to end their pain. Am I angry with them? No, because I know that they truly believed it was the only option they had at the time.


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Re: Do You think those Who Commit Suicide are Selfish? - March 18th 2010, 04:47 PM

I think that suicide is very selfish indeed, but you also have to bear in mind that often when people are suicidal, they aren't thinking rationally - sometimes these people do not realise that people do care about them.
   
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Re: Do You think those Who Commit Suicide are Selfish? - March 18th 2010, 05:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicola View Post


Especially if done in a way that makes others suffer, for example jumping in front of a train. It's horrible to put the train driver through that. (And again, this is something I myself have considered sooo...)
I agree with this.

I also think it's really selfish to keep saying to your friends/family that you're going to do it. My ex boyfriend did this to me for about a year and it caused me so much worry and sleepless nights over it. I also missed so much school because I wanted to make sure he was okay.


   
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Re: Do You think those Who Commit Suicide are Selfish? - March 18th 2010, 05:05 PM

I agree with it being selfish. I attempted suicide and when I told my mother she told me she would never be able to forgive herself, as she would see it as her fault, and I've never had a suicidal thought since.
You know what it feels like when someone close to you dies, of old age, cancer or perhaps an accident, imagine how much worse it be to know the person didn't want to live and there was nothing in your power to help them.
I do believe in some circumstances eg dying and killing yourself before you have to endure more pain is not selfish, but I would think this would be one of the only times it is not.


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Re: Do You think those Who Commit Suicide are Selfish? - March 18th 2010, 05:07 PM

Suicide is an extremely selfish act, and in my opinion it always is, but at the same time I'm not saying that people who do it are selfish.
   
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Re: Do You think those Who Commit Suicide are Selfish? - March 18th 2010, 05:13 PM

In my opinion suicide is the most selfish thing you could do.
My cousin committed suicide when he was 14, and i still have no idea why.




   
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Re: Do You think those Who Commit Suicide are Selfish? - March 18th 2010, 05:35 PM

I think the act of suicide is selfish in a lot of ways, BUT it doesn't mean that the person is selfish. I think back to the times I've been closest to suicide and, the thing is, I couldn't think straight. I saw no future, only impending doom. Brandon said it's acceptable to kill yourself if you are slowly being tortured to death, but am I the only one who feels like that is what severe depression feels like? I felt like my life was over, like I was going nowhere and had no future. Thankfully, I have an amazing and wonderfully supportive girlfriend who talked me through it, but at the time all I could see was this crushing blackness in my future ready to envelope me. And knowing what that feels like, I can't think of anyone who commits suicide as selfish or weak-minded. It's a desperate, irrational attempt to escape what feels like a slow death in pain.


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Re: Do You think those Who Commit Suicide are Selfish? - March 18th 2010, 05:40 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
With that being said, this is my opinion:

Depression really sucks and it really affects your life temporarily. It's powerful, but I strongly believe that people who are depressed have morals. I believe that just because you're depressed, doesn't mean you're this helpless human being who can't do the right thing.Why is it that people who are depressed (or at least the people that I know are depressed) still stop at stop signs, stop lights, etc? It's because at the end of the day, you make your own choices.
When I was suicidal, as long as I didn't see a police officer, I just sped right through, hoping I'd get hit... So, yeah, not seeing your point there. Also, stopping at stop signs, driving on the right side of the road, etc. are all habitual things that are ingrained into you as a civilised person. For most of us, it doesn't require a choice. Its the knee-jerk reaction to stop at a stop light.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
If you're depressed, you are in no way shape or form obligated to commit suicide. You just want to commit suicide because you're depressed, but that doesn't mean you're going to commit suicide -- it's all based on a choice. If you choose to commit suicide, that is your choice.
I can't speak for everyone, but when I was suicidal, it didn't feel like a choice I was making. It was like gravity almost. It was the only place left to go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
People can influence your decision, but they can't make that decision for you. You are responsible for your actions. This is where I say that suicide is for the weak-minded because there is a very limited number of circumstances where suicide is acceptable.
Suicidal thoughts and depression are very, very private things that I for one didn't talk about with anyone. I don't see how other people could influence someone into or out of committing suicide, especially when part of depression is isolating yourself from the people in your life.

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But what we're talking about is depression, which is a chemical imbalance in the brain that makes us feel like shit. It's a temporary state of being unless you completely devote your life to being miserable.
You are wrong about depression being a temporary state of being. One common mental disorder is dysthymia. It is long-term depression, which exists constantly for at least two years. People with dysthymia are prone to major depressive episodes (ex: suicide attempts). This is a medical condition which can last a life-time, and doesn't always go away even when medicated.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
Psychology backs me up when I say that humans go through homeostasis...where we adapt to our environments. So if we feel like crap for a period of time, our brains will actually be like "oh shit, we need to fix that" once it realizes that something is wrong. And not only that, but if we smile a lot more often, you can actually convince your brain that your happy.
And if you are forced to do this for a long period of time, you can get dissociation (which my psychiatrist and I are working through) because I smile literally all the time. Like, even if someone punches me in the face, I won't be able to stop smiling. Someone who convinces themselves that they are happy all the time doesn't know how to express or feel emotions properly. It can be very damaging to supress your emotions.

Quote:
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I learned ALL OF THIS through reading books -- I coped with depression by educating myself, taking Psychology classes, and just being aware of my environment.
For a lot of people, this would not be an option. I completely shut down, couldn't work, sleep, study, or eat properly. A lot of people can't even bring themselves to do their normal daily routines when clinically depressed, let alone study and care about educating themselves. For many people, clinical depression IS a severely dehabilitating disorder, and its not until they are out of the state of mind that they can see or understand that there is anything outside of the pain they are feeling.
   
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Re: Do You think those Who Commit Suicide are Selfish? - March 18th 2010, 06:13 PM

Quote:
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Yes, I think it's extremely selfish, being perfectly honest. Sure, you won't have to suffer any more but everybody you leave behind will. It's selfish, I don't see how somebody could say it isn't.

By the way, before anyone attacks me, I am suicidal. Have been for years. But I still believe it's selfish. Especially if done in a way that makes others suffer, for example jumping in front of a train. It's horrible to put the train driver through that. (And again, this is something I myself have considered sooo...)

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Re: Do You think those Who Commit Suicide are Selfish? - March 18th 2010, 06:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixAlive View Post
For a lot of people, this would not be an option. I completely shut down, couldn't work, sleep, study, or eat properly. A lot of people can't even bring themselves to do their normal daily routines when clinically depressed, let alone study and care about educating themselves. For many people, clinical depression IS a severely dehabilitating disorder, and its not until they are out of the state of mind that they can see or understand that there is anything outside of the pain they are feeling.

I can't speak for other people, but for me it's like this: when I feel depressed, I can eat, but I don't have the taste. I can sleep very well, but I feel tired even after 10 hours sleeping. I can discuss things, but I can't give good arguments. But when I'm in such a state of mind, I can study excellently. I think it's like a way to distract myself. I mean, when I feel depressed, I suddenly like doing math exercises or to work on my history scription. It's giving me better points, and that's helping, but it doesn't help my feelings.
   
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Re: Do You think those Who Commit Suicide are Selfish? - March 18th 2010, 06:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixAlive View Post
When I was suicidal, as long as I didn't see a police officer, I just sped right through, hoping I'd get hit... So, yeah, not seeing your point there. Also, stopping at stop signs, driving on the right side of the road, etc. are all habitual things that are ingrained into you as a civilised person. For most of us, it doesn't require a choice. Its the knee-jerk reaction to stop at a stop light.
I find that hard to believe, but I'll just assume you're telling the truth about you speeding through lights and such (and even if that's the case, that'd just make you even MORE selfish, no offense) because you're not concerned about the lives of other people. You're depressed, therefore you want someone to hit you.


They're all habitual because it's the right thing to do and we are awarded for doing it. I don't completely stop at all stop signs, but that's because of of the stop signs isn't being watched by a cop (since it's on the county line). If I was caught not effectively stopping at the stop sign, then I'd start developing a habit to stopping at the stop sign. But it's all still a choice. Just the other day, I ran right through a red light (there wasn't many cars) and I didn't even bother slowing down. That's because I chose not to stop.




Quote:
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I can't speak for everyone, but when I was suicidal, it didn't feel like a choice I was making. It was like gravity almost. It was the only place left to go.
That's the kicker. You FELT like you didn't have a choice, but you most certainly did have a choice. You just didn't really know better at the time.



Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixAlive View Post
Suicidal thoughts and depression are very, very private things that I for one didn't talk about with anyone. I don't see how other people could influence someone into or out of committing suicide, especially when part of depression is isolating yourself from the people in your life.
Just because you isolate yourself from other people doesn't mean you can ultimately get away from people. The fact that a lot of teenagers are depressed these days, they gotta go to school and such...so avoiding people would be hard. Is it not possible that random strangers can make fun of you? And when you're depressed, are you not emotionally sensitive?



Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixAlive View Post
You are wrong about depression being a temporary state of being. One common mental disorder is dysthymia. It is long-term depression, which exists constantly for at least two years. People with dysthymia are prone to major depressive episodes (ex: suicide attempts). This is a medical condition which can last a life-time, and doesn't always go away even when medicated.
Potentially I'm wrong, sure. I'm wrong for that 4% of the US population that has dysthymia. You're talking about a minority, I'm talking about the majority.

http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/d/dysthymia/stats.htm




Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixAlive View Post
And if you are forced to do this for a long period of time, you can get dissociation (which my psychiatrist and I are working through) because I smile literally all the time. Like, even if someone punches me in the face, I won't be able to stop smiling. Someone who convinces themselves that they are happy all the time doesn't know how to express or feel emotions properly. It can be very damaging to supress your emotions.
I was merely just making a point. I'm not saying that if you're depressed, you should smile all the time. I'm saying that you can incorporate multiple ideas to deal with your depression. Suicide isn't the only answer.



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For a lot of people, this would not be an option. I completely shut down, couldn't work, sleep, study, or eat properly. A lot of people can't even bring themselves to do their normal daily routines when clinically depressed, let alone study and care about educating themselves. For many people, clinical depression IS a severely dehabilitating disorder, and its not until they are out of the state of mind that they can see or understand that there is anything outside of the pain they are feeling.
Like weight loss, people have different methods of tackling the issue. The bottom line is that there's a way of solving your problem, you just gotta find out what that solution is.
   
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Re: Do You think those Who Commit Suicide are Selfish? - March 18th 2010, 06:24 PM

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I also think it's really selfish to keep saying to your friends/family that you're going to do it. My ex boyfriend did this to me for about a year and it caused me so much worry and sleepless nights over it. I also missed so much school because I wanted to make sure he was okay.
^^^ This is why I have a very jaded view on suicide. I understand depression, I understand wanting to die... I've been there. I still have those feelings sometimes. I understand what it feels like when suicide seems to be the only choice out of how shitty you feel, and always feel. Maybe having those feelings is selfish... but you can't help it. You aren't intentionally doing it to hurt anyone, even though it sometimes destroys lives in the process. It honestly can just feel like your only way out of your own living hell.

With that said, I had a boyfriend who was very depressed and very suicidal. He used it to bring everyone around him down with him. He used it as a threat, as a way to keep me with him. He manipulated me in so many ways by using suicide as his tool. If I wanted to break up with him, or do anything he didn't agree with (his own family included), then he swore that night he was going to kill himself. My life fell apart for him. I thought I loved him. I wanted to keep him safe, and make him feel loved, and he abused that. He would tell me constantly about his multiple failed suicide attempts, like he was bragging or something. Finally I had enough and just left. He tried to get me to stay because if I didn't it'd be my fault he died. But I couldn't take it anymore. I know he was depressed, he was suicidal, he was lonely. Still gives you no right to use it to his advantage like that.

Now that is selfish.


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Re: Do You think those Who Commit Suicide are Selfish? - March 18th 2010, 06:28 PM

As someone who has lost a family member to suicide I see it like this:

It is selfish in the sense that someone out there cares about you and will be affected by your actions. Someone and most likely not just one person will be suffering for a long time and have to deal with this for the rest of their life. Suicide does not just kill a life; it alters all the lives around it. Whether that person thinks it will or not, it will happen. And I know a lot of people who are in this situation feel that no one cares about them, but they will have no idea the destruction they will cause to their family, friends, co workers, acquaintances, anybody that this person knows could be severely affected by this action. And in that sense, it is selfish.




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Re: Do You think those Who Commit Suicide are Selfish? - March 18th 2010, 08:36 PM

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I find that hard to believe, but I'll just assume you're telling the truth about you speeding through lights and such (and even if that's the case, that'd just make you even MORE selfish, no offense) because you're not concerned about the lives of other people. You're depressed, therefore you want someone to hit you.


For future reference, this was all more than two years ago, so past tense please.

I did a few times, once with the man who was currently my husband in the passenger seat.

And it doesn't work that way when you are depressed. Its not that I wasn't concerned about the lives of the other people on the road. I love my husband and would never want harm to come to him. Its just, at that moment, I didn't even consider the possibility that anyone else might be hurt by my actions. I just thought it would be a way out.


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That's the kicker. You FELT like you didn't have a choice, but you most certainly did have a choice. You just didn't really know better at the time.


Of course you're right. The problem is that you can't say that to someone who is truly suicidal, because they won't believe you. So, assuming that people who are in this frame of mind can think reasonably and logically enough to realize that there are other options, and that they are potentially hurting other people is ignorant, because those who are clinically depressed do not think rationally.


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Just because you isolate yourself from other people doesn't mean you can ultimately get away from people. The fact that a lot of teenagers are depressed these days, they gotta go to school and such...so avoiding people would be hard. Is it not possible that random strangers can make fun of you? And when you're depressed, are you not emotionally sensitive?



I don't know. I was in university, and I just didn't go to my classes. Its not like they take attendance. I spent the days hiding in stairwells, and literally didn't speak to anyone. Its possible, you just have to be willing to work to avoid people.





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Potentially I'm wrong, sure. I'm wrong for that 4% of the US population that has dysthymia. You're talking about a minority, I'm talking about the majority.


My bad. I know someone who is dysthymic, so I assumed it was more common.


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Like weight loss, people have different methods of tackling the issue. The bottom line is that there's a way of solving your problem, you just gotta find out what that solution is.
Agreed. However it can be very hard for someone who is suicidal to come to a place where they can see that.

I'm just trying to say that although you were able to find a way through your depression, and although from the way you talk about it, you didn't find it completely debilitating, there are some who have had it much worse. And it is unfair to say that those people are selfish for taking the only avenue they thought was available to them.

   
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Re: Do You think those Who Commit Suicide are Selfish? - March 18th 2010, 08:55 PM

Not only is it selfish, but also cowardly, immoral, and a waste of the greatest gift in the world. Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. You only hurt the people who cares about you, you are yourself dead so to you it stops mattering at that point, but those people left behind has to live with it for the rest of their lives. It is also immoral because it violates the 5th commandment “Thou shall not kill“


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Re: Do You think those Who Commit Suicide are Selfish? - March 18th 2010, 09:11 PM

I am not sure, yes it can be but at times I have felt like if I were dead people wouldn't have to deal with me anymore. In which case I saw it as like very un-selfish.


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Re: Do You think those Who Commit Suicide are Selfish? - March 18th 2010, 09:18 PM

It's tricky. I have been suicidal, so I know what it's like to not be able to think about other things or other people. I found a song (Magician's Assistant - Dan le Sac vs Scroobius Pip) which always makes me feel selfish when I even think for a minute about suicide. Basically it goes through all the people in the girls life and why they should have been there, but also why it's not their fault they weren't, and ends with the message that it's her choice, she won't have to deal with the fallout, everyone else will.
I guess then I do think it's selfish. But I can understand how people get to that. And it takes something or someone else to make someone realise. They don't purposefully do it to be selfish. They're not doing it just to make their friends/family hurt; they're doing it because it's the only out they see. You have to make someone see that it isn't the only way.


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Re: Do You think those Who Commit Suicide are Selfish? - March 18th 2010, 09:23 PM

I Agree it is, but I also disagree.

I agree because they don't always think of the people they are leaving behind and are hurting.

But I disagree because they aren't really in the frame of mind to be making any big choices like that, it's what they think is right at the time.






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Re: Do You think those Who Commit Suicide are Selfish? - March 18th 2010, 09:50 PM

I think it depends on how you define "selfish." Selfishness is caring only for oneself and a selfish act is characterized by acting on behalf of such self-fulfilling desires. A selfish person wishes to gain desirable things--wealth, for example, or undue happiness. And so a selfish act is one of taking that which is not rightfully theirs in order to fulfill those desires--theft (active or passive), happiness, murder, etc.

The suicidal person is different in that they act in order to be freed of pain or hardship; they are not necessarily motivated by the prospect of gaining a more desirable state of existence. Is suicide wrong? Yes. But is it selfish? I'm not sure. I think it's a leap (and a bit of an unfair one) to say that every suicidal person is self-seeking, concerned only with themselves, and acting a manner that they believe is beneficial only to them. And I think it is vital to take intent into account when labeling any action selfish. The suicidal person does not wish to take themselves or possessions from others, to take life from others, or to gain anything desirable for themselves. Instead, they wish to remove a (perceived or real) burden from their family's shoulders and be relieved of personal hardship.

It's a fine line, and it really boils down to how you interpret the word. I do not think suicide is selfish, but I won't gawk at anyone who does--I can see how they might feel that way. I guess what makes that bit of a difference, to me, is intent.



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Re: Do You think those Who Commit Suicide are Selfish? - March 18th 2010, 10:06 PM

I don't think they're weak minded, but yes, I wholeheartedly believe that they are selfish. I speak as someone who used to be suicidal, and who's best friend tried to kill herself.

As other people have said before me, if you kill yourself, you are the only person on the entire planet who doesn't have to deal with it. It's an incredible burden to put on other people who care about you.
   
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Re: Do You think those Who Commit Suicide are Selfish? - March 18th 2010, 10:09 PM

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Originally Posted by Darth Cara View Post

I also think it's really selfish to keep saying to your friends/family that you're going to do it. My ex boyfriend did this to me for about a year and it caused me so much worry and sleepless nights over it. I also missed so much school because I wanted to make sure he was okay.
I agree with this. I've had this happen with FAR too many people in my life.
   
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Re: Do You think those Who Commit Suicide are Selfish? - March 18th 2010, 10:41 PM

Loosing my best friend to suicide, I believed it was very selfish. She left the world over a year ago and I still am hurt and angry about all of it. I can say, that I have been suicidal in my past. But when you feel that low, you don't think about hurting other people. You just think of getting rid of the hurt and pain you are in.


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Re: Do You think those Who Commit Suicide are Selfish? - March 18th 2010, 10:44 PM

Yes.

I have lost a very close friend to suicide. Do I think she was selfish? No. Do I think her act in taking her life was selfish? After seeing how it has literally destroyed the lives of everyone around here ... yes. I think everyone acknowledges that she was very ill at the time and so unable to appreciate this, so I don't really place the blame of her selfishness on her, but yes, and I believe everyone agrees. Nearly 4 years on we're only just starting to pick up the pieces and none of us will ever get over it. Before having personally lost someone I would never have imagined how majorly it impacts everyone who even had the smallest amount of contact with her.

Commiting suicide is not for the weak-minded, nor is it cowardly. You have to have incredible amounts of guts to do it. It goes against every natural defense mechanism in our bodies, it is something your body will try and stop you from doing, it is not cowardly. But I do believe it is a selfish act.


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Re: Do You think those Who Commit Suicide are Selfish? - March 18th 2010, 11:31 PM

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Commiting suicide is not for the weak-minded, nor is it cowardly. You have to have incredible amounts of guts to do it. It goes against every natural defense mechanism in our bodies, it is something your body will try and stop you from doing, it is not cowardly. But I do believe it is a selfish act.
This is very true. It's not something that you decide to do, and your body & mind is just like "ok!" People who end up committing suicide are not weak-minded in the least.
   
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Re: Do You think those Who Commit Suicide are Selfish? - March 18th 2010, 11:38 PM

I think that while we might see suicide as selfish, it's not really that selfish. The person isn't thinking' I'm going to hurt everyone, yay', their going 'I can't handle this anymore.' And to them it feels like the only option.

Two years ago, two girls from TH died, I think both were suicides. It tore the community up. But did anyone blame them?No. There were a lot of upset people, and a lot of people who didn't want to live without those girls, and they were hurt, but they didn't call the girls selfish. Maybe they were selfish, they didn't stop to think about how it would effect 50 thousand people(or however many of us there were). And these girls were definitely not weak minded. Both were exceedingly strong, but they felt they couldn't live anymore, and who are we to judge them for that?

My point is it doesn't matter how we view suicide, the people who commit it aren't doing it to hurt us or because they are too weak minded; most of them are strong, courageous individuals, but they see it as their only option. And it's upsetting, it really is, but we shouldn't judge them for that.


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Re: Do You think those Who Commit Suicide are Selfish? - March 19th 2010, 12:14 AM

I don't really see it as selfish, too negative of a connotation. Those people are just pushed to a point, much like other people with mental illnesses. They aren't doing it hurt others. They shouldn't be held as accountable as a perfectly normal, confidant person would be.


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Re: Do You think those Who Commit Suicide are Selfish? - March 19th 2010, 12:21 AM

I don't think they're selfish. These are people who are suffering from a mental illness (for the most part), it's not their fault so how can you call them selfish?
I believe that the act of suicide of selfish, but not that the people who contemplate, attempt, or complete the act are selfish in any way.I say this as both a person who has been affected by someone else's suicide and that has attempted twice in the past.

To me, saying that someone who is suicidal or that has committed suicide is selfish is horrible. That's like me going up to someone with an eating disorder and saying "Your eating habits are hurting the people around you, the fact that you don't stop this means you're selfish.", that's totally not true but that's how I feel when I hear people say being suicidal is selfish.


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Re: Do You think those Who Commit Suicide are Selfish? - March 19th 2010, 12:27 AM

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I don't think they're selfish. These are people who are suffering from a mental illness (for the most part), it's not their fault so how can you call them selfish?
I believe that the act of suicide of selfish, but not that the people who contemplate, attempt, or complete the act are selfish in any way.I say this as both a person who has been affected by someone else's suicide and that has attempted twice in the past.

To me, saying that someone who is suicidal or that has committed suicide is selfish is horrible. That's like me going up to someone with an eating disorder and saying "Your eating habits are hurting the people around you, the fact that you don't stop this means you're selfish.", that's totally not true but that's how I feel when I hear people say being suicidal is selfish.
I do see what you mean and this is what I tried to say. I do not think the person themself is selfish, but I think their act is. Nearly four years on I am still angry at my friend, but I have to remind myself that she was unable to understand the magnitude her death would have. I don't think anyone can fully comprehend how many people would be affected by their death, and if someone is suffering with a mental illness so severe they are seriously considering suicide then they can't be blamed for their actions.

As someone who has battled with bulimia for almost half my life, I do think that an eating disorder makes you selfish. When I was suffering, I would do anything, say anything, no matter whom it hurt, in order to carry on with my behaviours. Most people who have been ill to a similar seriousness have experienced the same; eating disorders are somewhat selfish. So in a way your comparison is just the same as suicide -- I was not a selfish person, but my actions were selfish, I did only care about myself. But this was because of an illness that completely controlled my behaviour and thoughts.


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Re: Do You think those Who Commit Suicide are Selfish? - March 19th 2010, 12:49 AM

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So in a way your comparison is just the same as suicide -- I was not a selfish person, but my actions were selfish, I did only care about myself. But this was because of an illness that completely controlled my behaviour and thoughts.
I couldn't have worded it any better than what you just said there.


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Re: Do You think those Who Commit Suicide are Selfish? - March 19th 2010, 01:24 AM

they would rather die than face problems yes that is a cowardly act ur doin it because you dont want to deal with problems in ur life


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Re: Do You think those Who Commit Suicide are Selfish? - March 19th 2010, 01:44 AM

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they would rather die than face problems yes that is a cowardly act ur doin it because you dont want to deal with problems in ur life
Suicide is not cowardly. You have to be incredible strong willed to even attempt to take your own life, much less to succeed. It's not that they would rather die, but that they see death as the only way out, they can't see past it. But that doesn't make them cowardly.


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Re: Do You think those Who Commit Suicide are Selfish? - March 19th 2010, 03:18 AM

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Suicide is not cowardly. You have to be incredible strong willed to even attempt to take your own life, much less to succeed. It's not that they would rather die, but that they see death as the only way out, they can't see past it. But that doesn't make them cowardly.
strength is to stay alive and try and deal with ur life. its easier to say im done i give up than it is to pick urself up after rock bottom and keep going


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