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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
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'Being Green' often leads to selfish and morally questionable behavior. - March 19th 2010, 11:54 PM

Hi Everyone!!

I hope you're having a super duper day!!

Study suggests - 'Being Green' often leads to selfish and morally questionable behavior.

Click on THIS to read the study.

My interpretation of the study.....

'Green extremists' [Just like any other type of 'extremist'] are arrogant. And it is that arrogance that often leads to moral decay. Those who see themselves as being 'better than' are LESS likely to be concerned [Than someone who is NOT an 'extremist'] about whether or not they lie, cheat or steal.

But why would that be?

Imagine - if you will - that we each have a 'jar' inside of us. And inside of that 'jar' is everything that allows us to be considered a decent human being. For most of us - that would include things like 'we don't steal or lie or cheat or go out of our way to hurt someone, etc.'. That 'jar' must be filled with enough 'good things' in order for us to believe that we have earned the right to face the world around us. [I am a 'good person' and therefore have the right to look you in the eye and not be ashamed] IF - however - what we are doing [And what we believe] convinces us that our 'jar' is especially full - and that we are 'better than' most other people [As is the case with EVERY 'extremist'] we care less [Than we normally would - and SHOULD] about whether or not we are lying, cheating or stealing. We are SO satisfied with what we think is in OUR 'jar' that nothing we do could effect how deserving WE are of respect.

Bottom line - the more highly you think of yourself - the lower you sink.

A good example of the irony of all of this is the fear many people have for their LIVES from those who profess to be 'pro-LIFE'. [And I'm referring specifically to those who hold to an 'extremist' pro-life point of view - NOT to your regular 'everyday' pro-lifer]

What do you think?

GREAT BIG HUG
Craig!!

Last edited by CanadaCraig; March 20th 2010 at 12:48 AM.
   
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Re: 'Being Green' often leads to selfish and morally questionable behavior. - March 20th 2010, 12:39 AM

Hopefully I didn't just interpret that as you saying that Pro-life people are arrogant. I'm pro-life, what now?


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Re: 'Being Green' often leads to selfish and morally questionable behavior. - March 20th 2010, 12:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Algernon View Post
Hopefully I didn't just interpret that as you saying that Pro-life people are arrogant. I'm pro-life, what now?
Hi Holly!!

I hope you're fine and dandy.

I added a clarifying sentence to my 'pro-life' comment in my original message!!!

GREAT BIG HUG
Craig!!
   
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Re: 'Being Green' often leads to selfish and morally questionable behavior. - March 20th 2010, 12:54 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadaCraig View Post
Hi Holly!!

I hope you're fine and dandy.

I added a clarifying sentence to my 'pro-life' comment in my original message!!!

GREAT BIG HUG
Craig!!
Could you clarify some more please?


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Re: 'Being Green' often leads to selfish and morally questionable behavior. - March 20th 2010, 01:03 AM

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Originally Posted by Algernon View Post
Hopefully I didn't just interpret that as you saying that Pro-life people are arrogant. I'm pro-life, what now?
Y'know, if it had been me or YNF posting this, I could maybe understand you misinterpreting it that badly; but what on earth makes you think Craig would be that crass and rude about anyone?

Unless I miss my guess, I'm assuming Craig's talking about that peculiar branch of the pro-life group that feels the best way to get their message across is by blowing up abortion clinics and killing doctors.

That's an interesting article Craig, though considering the small sizes of the tests I'm taking its proposed conclusions with a massive grain of salt. One thing I feel is worth mentioning is that the "moral licensing" effect they're attributing this to diminishes as something becomes more mainstream, so even if these results are accurate its not necessarily a reason to act on the concerns.


The atoms that make up you and me were born in the hearts of suns many times greater than ours, and in time our atoms will once again reside amongst the stars. Life is but an idle dalliance of the cosmos, frail, and soon forgotten. We have been set adrift in an ocean whose tides we are only beginning to comprehend and with that maturity has come the realization that we are, at least for now, alone. In that loneliness, it falls to us to shine as brightly as the stars from which we came.
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Re: 'Being Green' often leads to selfish and morally questionable behavior. - March 20th 2010, 01:12 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xujhan View Post
Y'know, if it had been me or YNF posting this, I could maybe understand you misinterpreting it that badly; but what on earth makes you think Craig would be that crass and rude about anyone?

Unless I miss my guess, I'm assuming Craig's talking about that peculiar branch of the pro-life group that feels the best way to get their message across is by blowing up abortion clinics and killing doctors.

That's an interesting article Craig, though considering the small sizes of the tests I'm taking its proposed conclusions with a massive grain of salt. One thing I feel is worth mentioning is that the "moral licensing" effect they're attributing this to diminishes as something becomes more mainstream, so even if these results are accurate its not necessarily a reason to act on the concerns.
Why do you think I asked him to clarify Because it's Craig and I just wanted to make sure I knew what he was saying. We're in the same boat this time.


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Re: 'Being Green' often leads to selfish and morally questionable behavior. - March 20th 2010, 01:22 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Algernon View Post
Could you clarify some more please?
Hi Holly!!

As I see it - an 'extremist' pro-lifer would be someone who is so fixated on the idea of saving lives [i.e. 'babies' about to be aborted] that they become more than willing to literally MURDER an abortion doctor and/or blow up an abortion clinic, etc.

An 'extremist' is pretty darn 'extreme' in their actions AND their words. The over-whelming majority of 'pro-livers' do NOT consider someone willing to murder an abortion doctor a 'friend' of the cause. In fact - most would consider even the idea to be ANTI everything they stand for.

Does that makes sense?!

GREAT BIG HUG
Craig!!
   
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Re: 'Being Green' often leads to selfish and morally questionable behavior. - March 20th 2010, 01:28 AM

Yeah, that clears things up. =) I was thinking "No way Craig didn't just say something like that, wait a second."


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Re: 'Being Green' often leads to selfish and morally questionable behavior. - March 20th 2010, 01:44 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xujhan View Post
Y'know, if it had been me or YNF posting this, I could maybe understand you misinterpreting it that badly; but what on earth makes you think Craig would be that crass and rude about anyone?

Unless I miss my guess, I'm assuming Craig's talking about that peculiar branch of the pro-life group that feels the best way to get their message across is by blowing up abortion clinics and killing doctors.

That's an interesting article Craig, though considering the small sizes of the tests I'm taking its proposed conclusions with a massive grain of salt. One thing I feel is worth mentioning is that the "moral licensing" effect they're attributing this to diminishes as something becomes more mainstream, so even if these results are accurate its not necessarily a reason to act on the concerns.
Hi Fletcher!!

I hope you're having a groovy day!!

Thanks!

Although I agree with your argument re: the size of the study - and how it must be taken with a grain of salt - it has been my personal experience with those who are fixated on a 'cause - ANY 'cause' - that 'they' soon adopt a 'can do no wrong' attitude. [About everything in life] I'm sure you have met people like that too. [As I'm sure we all have] 'Absolutists' - as I like to call them - are very annoying. "I'm right - I know I'm right - and no one can convince me otherwise!" AGGGHHHHH!! lol

And yes - as a 'cause' [so to speak] becomes more mainstream - the 'extremists' begin to fade into the background and become less noticeable. [Even though they still exist] A great example of this are the feminists. When the feminist movement first began - a great number of women were on their side. But eventually - most of those women started to become uncomfortable with the 'absolute-ness' of the feminist position and began qualifying their support. Instead of saying, "Yes - I am a feminist", they began to add, ".... but I don't hate men!" See what what I mean? They wanted to make it clear that they are indeed in favour of equality for all - but did not want to use 'hate' as a way to reach that goal. [Which was something many of the 'extremists' in the movement were doing]

But I don't think it has to go quite that far before one can become 'full of themselves' [i.e. have a 'full jar'] and begin to concern themselves LESS with maintaining what most would assume are the basics of morality and what we consider to be 'good guy qualities'. [Which lead back to the original message]

No matter how 'sure' someone is about what they think and feel - they should always hold on tight to one very real truth - and that is - they MIGHT be WRONG!!

GREAT BIG HUG
Craig!!

Last edited by CanadaCraig; March 20th 2010 at 03:57 PM.
   
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Re: 'Being Green' often leads to selfish and morally questionable behavior. - March 20th 2010, 11:16 AM

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Originally Posted by CanadaCraig View Post
Although I agree with your argument re: the size of the study - and how it must be taken with a grain of salt - it has been my personal experience with those who are fixated on a 'cause - ANY 'cause' - that 'they' soon adopt a 'can do no wrong' attitude. [About everything in life] I'm sure you have met people like that too. [As I'm sure we all have] 'Absolutists' - as I like to call them - are very annoying. "I'm right - I know I'm right - and no one can convince me otherwise!" AGGGHHHHH!! lol
Boy oh boy is there ever truth in that, even around here. No names, but y'all know who you are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadaCraig View Post
No matter how 'sure' someone is about what they think and feel - they should always hold on tight to one very real truth - and that is - they MIGHT be WRONG!!
I only wish we all could see that as clearly as you do.


The atoms that make up you and me were born in the hearts of suns many times greater than ours, and in time our atoms will once again reside amongst the stars. Life is but an idle dalliance of the cosmos, frail, and soon forgotten. We have been set adrift in an ocean whose tides we are only beginning to comprehend and with that maturity has come the realization that we are, at least for now, alone. In that loneliness, it falls to us to shine as brightly as the stars from which we came.
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Re: 'Being Green' often leads to selfish and morally questionable behavior. - March 22nd 2010, 06:33 AM

It's surprising that extreme greenies engage in morally questionable behaviour? Personally I've always found the advocacy of wide-scale theft and control of people's property to be morally questionable.
   
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Re: 'Being Green' often leads to selfish and morally questionable behavior. - March 22nd 2010, 06:39 AM

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It's surprising that extreme greenies engage in morally questionable behaviour? Personally I've always found the advocacy of wide-scale theft and control of people's property to be morally questionable.
...you do know that the type of environmentalism in question is completely unrelated to politics, right? You really are making yourself look ridiculous.


The atoms that make up you and me were born in the hearts of suns many times greater than ours, and in time our atoms will once again reside amongst the stars. Life is but an idle dalliance of the cosmos, frail, and soon forgotten. We have been set adrift in an ocean whose tides we are only beginning to comprehend and with that maturity has come the realization that we are, at least for now, alone. In that loneliness, it falls to us to shine as brightly as the stars from which we came.
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Re: 'Being Green' often leads to selfish and morally questionable behavior. - March 22nd 2010, 06:50 AM

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...you do know that the type of environmentalism in question is completely unrelated to politics, right? You really are making yourself look ridiculous.
Not like the two aren't generally connected.
   
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Re: 'Being Green' often leads to selfish and morally questionable behavior. - March 22nd 2010, 07:09 AM

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Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
Not like the two aren't generally connected.
If by "connected" you mean that most people who are environmentalists also believe in democracy? Sure. And under that reasoning though, just about everything is connected to politics, as only the tiniest fraction of a percent of people actually think anarchy is a good idea.

Apologies Craig for derailing your thread, I'll leave off here.


The atoms that make up you and me were born in the hearts of suns many times greater than ours, and in time our atoms will once again reside amongst the stars. Life is but an idle dalliance of the cosmos, frail, and soon forgotten. We have been set adrift in an ocean whose tides we are only beginning to comprehend and with that maturity has come the realization that we are, at least for now, alone. In that loneliness, it falls to us to shine as brightly as the stars from which we came.
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Re: 'Being Green' often leads to selfish and morally questionable behavior. - March 22nd 2010, 08:08 AM

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Originally Posted by Xujhan View Post
If by "connected" you mean that most people who are environmentalists also believe in democracy? Sure. And under that reasoning though, just about everything is connected to politics, as only the tiniest fraction of a percent of people actually think anarchy is a good idea.

Apologies Craig for derailing your thread, I'll leave off here.
I never said anything about democracy directly. My point was more in relation to them believing they have the right to force people to act in a way they deem environmentally responsibly.
   
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Re: 'Being Green' often leads to selfish and morally questionable behavior. - March 22nd 2010, 12:24 PM

I love this thread Craig. I've been a member of greenpeace for some time now, but don't judge too quick, I'm not an extremist
I believe in saving the planet, and sometimes I think other greenies don't understand that what they're doing is causing more harm than good. For example in an effort to stop commercialised whaling they decided to 'intercept' (as they called it) a package containing whale meat. In my books that's called stealing.
As much as I believe in the good of the world, I think extremists need to realise that by taking violent action they are not helping their cause.


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Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations.
But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."

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Re: 'Being Green' often leads to selfish and morally questionable behavior. - March 22nd 2010, 08:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki. View Post
I love this thread Craig. I've been a member of greenpeace for some time now, but don't judge too quick, I'm not an extremist
I believe in saving the planet, and sometimes I think other greenies don't understand that what they're doing is causing more harm than good. For example in an effort to stop commercialised whaling they decided to 'intercept' (as they called it) a package containing whale meat. In my books that's called stealing.
As much as I believe in the good of the world, I think extremists need to realise that by taking violent action they are not helping their cause.
And, I just wanted to add to that, when they intercepted the package, what did they do with it? Because to me that's not stopping whalers, just making them need to produce extra meat to match the demand for it. The same thing goes for just about any other theft related to green movements. All it is doing is removing a bit of the supply so that that many more harmful actions have to be taken to make up for the loss. As well as the terrible PR is garners.


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Re: 'Being Green' often leads to selfish and morally questionable behavior. - March 22nd 2010, 08:38 PM

I believe their intentions were to reveal that whaling is still going on, even though it is illegal. Perhaps by exposing the whaling still continuing they are hoping for a difference, but pictures could do this instead of stealing. Link to the article here.


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But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."

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Re: 'Being Green' often leads to selfish and morally questionable behavior. - March 23rd 2010, 04:26 PM

This post made me think of that episode of South Park where they all get hybrid cars. They create a big cloud of "smug" that is slowly moving across the country because everyone get too full of themselves for helping the environment. "Thaanks!! ^_^" hehe

I don't really have much else to add besides I agree with this post. Any kind of extremist classifies themselves as better than everyone else because they are "fighting" for their cause. They are taking every measure to get their message across, even if that includes completely contradictory immoral behavior.


When reality is a prison, your mind can set you free.

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Re: 'Being Green' often leads to selfish and morally questionable behavior. - March 25th 2010, 01:37 AM

It's kind of like PETA, who ends up killing all the animals they "save". I hate PETA so much.

Though I have to admit that sometimes extremists have a time and a place, that's quite rare. Obviously when it's justifiable it isn't blowing up buildings or other useless things like that.


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Re: 'Being Green' often leads to selfish and morally questionable behavior. - March 25th 2010, 04:20 AM

I will say that people have a different act towards being environmental. Being environmental in the mainstream costs more. It's all about companies trying to make a profit of off being green.

I honestly for the life of me can't see moral decisions based on environmental views or that there is a strong correlation. Someone doing this study obviously has an anti-environmental agenda.

Last edited by Trickmatic; March 25th 2010 at 04:28 AM.
   
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Re: 'Being Green' often leads to selfish and morally questionable behavior. - April 2nd 2010, 09:53 AM

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I will say that people have a different act towards being environmental. Being environmental in the mainstream costs more. It's all about companies trying to make a profit of off being green.

I honestly for the life of me can't see moral decisions based on environmental views or that there is a strong correlation. Someone doing this study obviously has an anti-environmental agenda.
Hi Trickmatic!!

I hope you're OK.

I agree - at least in some part. There are indeed many people making money [And sometimes a lot of it] by 'going green'. It's a win/win situation for those people. "I'll no longer offer you bags with your purchases AND I will expect to be praised in the process!! Might I interest you in buying one of our new 'environmentally friendly' bags?"

As for those doing the study - if they have any bias [And everyone has one] I think it would be more 'anti-extremist' than 'anti-environmentalist'.

GREAT BIG HUG
Craig!!
   
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