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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
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Wrong or sweet? - August 27th 2010, 12:22 PM

I was watching this 'Australian Story' episode today in Sociology (AS is basically just a news/current affairs type program that usually focuses on one person or issue per episode... Think one long 20/20 story lol).

Anyway, the purpose of watching it was to see non traditional gender roles.

It was basically about a man building a brothel (though that part is not the part I want to talk about) whose girlfriend had a stroke while she was pregnant. She became unable to talk or move The woman's parents offered to take care of the baby but the man would not have it. He married the woman and raised the baby and looked after the both of them.

This man seemed like quiet a nice, well adjusted guy from his interviews, but something bothered me about it. It is obviously a tragic situation and in that respect I admire the man for not sticking her in a home and abandoning his kid. Not only that, but being a good father.

This must have all happened (the stroke that is) about 12 years ago as that is how old their son was. My problem: They had another, newborn son.

While everyone, teacher included, found this story so sweet and touching, I thought it was a bit sick.

Something about marrying, having sex and impregnating a woman who can't talk or move disturbs me... a lot.

What do you think? Sweet or wrong?


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Re: Wrong or sweet? - August 27th 2010, 12:54 PM

Maybe they have a system of blink once for "I'm in the mood", twice for not.

She had no way to consent to it though? Married or not, that's kinda sick. How did they even get married if she couldn't talk or move?


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Re: Wrong or sweet? - August 27th 2010, 01:11 PM

You may find it uneasing, but that doesn't mean it's wrong. I would however challenge the ethics of creating a child in the knowledge that they will grow up without a mother...

[EDIT] Uggghhh, not challenge.... you know what I mean!

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Re: Wrong or sweet? - August 27th 2010, 01:35 PM

Questionable. I think we don't really know enough specifics. For example, is she mentally stable to the point where she can make decisions such as "I would like another child?" Can she actually communicate with her husband enough for them to make this decision together? What is the relationship between herself and the 12 year old like?

And, foremost on my mind, how does a woman who cannot move carry a baby to full term in a healthy way?!?!



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Re: Wrong or sweet? - August 27th 2010, 03:58 PM

i think that's wrong. she had no way of properly communicating whether she wanted to have sex with him or have another child. i'm surprised she could carry and have a child if shes in that state though. :/


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Re: Wrong or sweet? - August 27th 2010, 04:03 PM

Just because she can't move or talk does not mean she cannot communicate her wishes.


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Re: Wrong or sweet? - August 27th 2010, 04:35 PM

Since we don't know the details about it, we can really make a judgement. For all we know, they had a way for her to communicate.
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Re: Wrong or sweet? - August 27th 2010, 05:00 PM

And applying Occam's Razor, it would be far too unlikely that an Australian doctor would allow a man to effectively rape a paraplegic woman simply because he was her husband, and if it did happen and she bore a child the only ethical choice for him would be to report it. Therefore, I think we can assume it was consensual.
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Re: Wrong or sweet? - August 27th 2010, 06:03 PM

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Originally Posted by her_beautiful_mistake View Post
Just because she can't move or talk does not mean she cannot communicate her wishes.
hmm, fair enough. but if she's unable to move it must be difficult to carry a baby for 9 months, and have the baby.

gah, idk.. i think we need to know more about this story to judge it actually.


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Re: Wrong or sweet? - August 27th 2010, 06:45 PM

i think its wrong the man had to do all the work in bed
   
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Re: Wrong or sweet? - August 27th 2010, 07:04 PM

I think the whole thing was risky behaviour, that is, if they intentionally got pregnant. If she had a stroke during the first pregnancy, who is to say the pregnancy wasn't the cause? I mean, that'd be putting the mother's life, and the soon-to-be-child's life, in danger.


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Re: Wrong or sweet? - August 27th 2010, 10:03 PM

Well, with therapy, maybe she was able to regain some movement and speech ability?
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Re: Wrong or sweet? - August 27th 2010, 10:58 PM

im not sure what to think about it, its sweet that he didnt leave his kid and all, but something about it screams uneasy at me, like something isnt right, but kitty is right we cant really judge for we do not know the details...but by gut feeling~something doesnt seem right


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Re: Wrong or sweet? - August 28th 2010, 12:27 AM

I found this on Youtube if you want to have a look and judge for yourselves:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiHguCR6Ei8

After seeing it again I am on the fence. He obviously loves her and she seems happy. It still makes me feel really uneasy though.


To love. To be loved. To never forget your own insignificance. To never get used to the unspeakable violence and the vulgar disparity of life around you. To seek joy in the saddest places. To pursue beauty to its lair. To never simplify what is complicated or complicate what is simple. To respect strength, never power. Above all, to watch. To try and understand. To never look away. And never, never, to forget

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Re: Wrong or sweet? - August 28th 2010, 02:26 AM

I don't see what is wrong with it because the man is able to provide the care (i.e. not impregnating the wife to abuse kids) and the woman is mentally fit. Although she cannot communicate by speech, she can use other ways to communicate. I think it would be difficult for the children to have a mother like that while their friends and relatives don't. But that does not make what he did wrong.


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Re: Wrong or sweet? - August 29th 2010, 05:17 AM

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Originally Posted by her_beautiful_mistake View Post
Just because she can't move or talk does not mean she cannot communicate her wishes.
No, but it doesn't mean that her wishes were respected, either. We don't know what happened, so I can't really say whether this is wrong or not.


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Re: Wrong or sweet? - August 29th 2010, 07:14 AM

From the video you can see that she has at least some basic muscle control in parts of her body. More than Stephen Hawking, it looks like. So I'd find it hard to believe she can't communicate at all.


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Re: Wrong or sweet? - August 30th 2010, 10:03 AM

Yeah, I'm sure she could consent. She seems happy in the video so I'm sure she would be able to show her discomfort too.

It still makes me really uncomfortable. Maybe I'm alone in that. If she can consent then perhaps it's fine.


To love. To be loved. To never forget your own insignificance. To never get used to the unspeakable violence and the vulgar disparity of life around you. To seek joy in the saddest places. To pursue beauty to its lair. To never simplify what is complicated or complicate what is simple. To respect strength, never power. Above all, to watch. To try and understand. To never look away. And never, never, to forget

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Re: Wrong or sweet? - August 30th 2010, 10:42 AM

I'm pretty sure they'd have worked out a way of communicating, so this seems to me like it's pretty much like any other couple's choice on whether to have a baby or not. Who's to say she's not the one that wanted another child?

One thing I do wonder...how did she manage to carry the baby for 9 months if her own body wasn't functioning properly? I'm assuming it was a cesarean birth, but still....
   
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Re: Wrong or sweet? - August 30th 2010, 10:51 AM

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Originally Posted by I-am-not-a-robot View Post
I'm pretty sure they'd have worked out a way of communicating, so this seems to me like it's pretty much like any other couple's choice on whether to have a baby or not. Who's to say she's not the one that wanted another child?
Even if you disregard the issue about whether it is right or not, don't you think it's selfish to raise a child in that way? Obviously I'm talking about the newborn not the firstborn.

By the way, you guys are very persuasive.


To love. To be loved. To never forget your own insignificance. To never get used to the unspeakable violence and the vulgar disparity of life around you. To seek joy in the saddest places. To pursue beauty to its lair. To never simplify what is complicated or complicate what is simple. To respect strength, never power. Above all, to watch. To try and understand. To never look away. And never, never, to forget

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Re: Wrong or sweet? - August 31st 2010, 03:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marguerite View Post
Even if you disregard the issue about whether it is right or not, don't you think it's selfish to raise a child in that way? Obviously I'm talking about the newborn not the firstborn.

By the way, you guys are very persuasive.
No more selfish than a single-parent household, I think.


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Re: Wrong or sweet? - September 1st 2010, 02:40 AM

If she had a way to communicate and consent to it, I think that's really sweet. If not......wow, that'd be a really odd situation to be in.
   
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Re: Wrong or sweet? - September 3rd 2010, 01:28 PM

It can be wrong, and illegal of course if she is unable to consent. Being married is not automatic consent.
But being outside of their marriage, it's difficult to know their situation.


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