Burning The Qu'ran

[Union Of V]

There have been so many news stories about the fundamentalist Christian Dove World Outreach Center's plan to burn copies of the Qu'ran on 11th September as a "warning message" to their Islamic counterparts, that I cannot pick any single one. Lets just say it's generated quite a lot of criticism.

The first thing this story makes me feel is sadness for those who will invariably be killed as a result of what is essentially a propaganda stunt for Al Qaeda and their following. Then, from a more liberal point of view it saddens me that this act is being compared to the supposed "building" of a Mosque "on" Ground Zero. Since when is the creation of a place of worship comparable to the destruction of a religious text? They are complete opposites!

Thoughts, anyone?

[off to a new life]

I'm not religious in any way, but I never would have imagined a reverend capable of this kind of thing. So much for love and tolerance!

[dr2005]

Does the US have any laws regarding incitement of religious hatred? If so I'd say this falls well within that category and they should just send the police around to him. Failing that, I'd just park a fire truck opposite the bonfire with a hose pointed at it and several firemen with CO2 fire extinguishers standing by. That would make things interesting...

[Union Of V]

Originally Posted by dr2005

Does the US have any laws regarding incitement of religious hatred? If so I'd say this falls well within that category and they should just send the police around to him. Failing that, I'd just park a fire truck opposite the bonfire with a hose pointed at it and several firemen with CO2 fire extinguishers standing by. That would make things interesting...

It seems that it falls within freedom of speech (although here's an article contrasting it with the burning of the bible) so government intervention is out - as probably is intervention by a government agency like the fire service, so long as there is no threat of the fire spreading. HOWEVER it would be a brilliant form of protest if civilians did that!

[dr2005]

Originally Posted by Union Of V

It seems that it falls within freedom of speech (although here's an article contrasting it with the burning of the bible) so government intervention is out - as probably is intervention by a government agency like the fire service, so long as there is no threat of the fire spreading. HOWEVER it would be a brilliant form of protest if civilians did that!

I'm sure a clever enough District Attorney could argue that a bonfire of books poses a sufficient risk to property for the fire department to be present...but failing that I'll happily chip in if someone wants to buy a job lot of fire extinguishers from Walmart or something.

EDIT: Just read this story and realised that the DA might actually be able to intervene as:

Originally Posted by BBC News

The church has been denied a permit for a bonfire by the authorities in Gainesville, but Mr Jones plans to go forward with the Koran burning and pay any fines incurred.

I'm fairly sure the fire department would have a mandate to put out an unauthorised bonfire, so that could throw a spanner in the works for him. I'm still rooting for the civilians-with-extinguishers though, just because it's a more entertaining image.

[thebigmole]

God everything psycho happens in Florida, I say this as a Floridian. I heard about this a few weeks ago. I think that they should get more than just paying a fine, they should be arrested for arsen or something.

Also since it's illegal I don't see how if can fall under freedom of speech. After all it's illegal to burn the flag, and in Gainsville it's illegal to burn Holy Scriptures. It's not freedom of speech it's breaking the law.

[Crazy Filmmaker]

its complete BS that they are going to burn the qu'ran, i mean i respect all religions,

maybe i should pick a day christians killed a lot of people and start burning bibles next to there church to see how they like it

[eunoia]

Precisely the kind of behavior one would expect of a terrorist organization. Gotta love irony.


(Had to.)

[Allons-y!]

I have absolutely nothing to say about this. It's that ridiculous. I wouldn't even know where to begin.

[Union Of V]

Originally Posted by dr2005

I'm fairly sure the fire department would have a mandate to put out an unauthorised bonfire, so that could throw a spanner in the works for him. I'm still rooting for the civilians-with-extinguishers though, just because it's a more entertaining image.

Seconded!

[Lugez]

Sigh.


Idiots.

[eunoia]

Update: Rev. Jones Stands Down; Quran Burning Canceled http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/...n6850933.shtml

Thank goodness. Although I do hope the "agreement" he speaks of (moving the mosque/community center in NYC) is not true.

[Spontaneous Smile]

This whole thing made me incredibly mad. There is no legitimate reason to burn a peoples' holy book. Considering the religion's people did nothing wrong. 9/11 were just some people of that religion who were out of line. They should not define the religion as a whole.

To burn their holy book would be like burning our bible. =/ And burning the Quran would set off a lot of not-so-good feelings and possibly set us back to square one with the whole 'war on terrorism' or whatever.

As for building a mosque near the twin towers site. No, I think it's just too early for that. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be one in New York, EVER. I just think that nation is still a little too shaken from 9/11 to be able to deal with something that close to a bad memory. Maybe once we cool down and put on our big girl panties, New York will feel more comfortable with the idea. Who knows.

But I don't know. I don't usually keep track of everything that goes on in the nation. I get anxious if I do. But when I heard about this, it made me very upset. Just felt like voicing my opinion. I know this is a debate type of thread, but I don't want anyone burning my butt about anything I said.

[thebigmole]

Originally Posted by Spontaneous Smile

This whole thing made me incredibly mad. There is no legitimate reason to burn a peoples' holy book. Considering the religion's people did nothing wrong. 9/11 were just some people of that religion who were out of line. They should not define the religion as a whole.

To burn their holy book would be like burning our bible. =/ And burning the Quran would set off a lot of not-so-good feelings and possibly set us back to square one with the whole 'war on terrorism' or whatever.

As for building a mosque near the twin towers site. No, I think it's just too early for that. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be one in New York, EVER. I just think that nation is still a little too shaken from 9/11 to be able to deal with something that close to a bad memory. Maybe once we cool down and put on our big girl panties, New York will feel more comfortable with the idea. Who knows.

But I don't know. I don't usually keep track of everything that goes on in the nation. I get anxious if I do. But when I heard about this, it made me very upset. Just felt like voicing my opinion. I know this is a debate type of thread, but I don't want anyone burning my butt about anything I said.

Off topic, but it's not a Mosque it's a community center with a prayer room in it. Think of like a YMCA with a prayer room that happens to be used by Muslims, and they are already there, have been for years, praying there. There is no building a mosque, just renovating a preexisting building. And it's been 9 years you would hope we would have smartened up by now and realize that there is a difference between regular Muslims and the people who attacked us. You are right we need to grow up, but it's way past the time to have done it.

I agree with your first part. Nothing good would have come from the burning. I think the most annoying part is that the guy got so much publicity anyway, that's what he wanted. And you know what's funny, the Westboro Baptist Church base their beliefs on the bible and they "Thank God for 9/11" Guess it proves that not everyone who crazily (by that I mean extremists) follows the bible supports the hatred for Muslims (well I'm sure they hate them, they hate everybody, but just not solely because of 9/11)

[Casey.]

Legally, he was in the wrong. And morally. God, I hate stupid people. Cause a lot of innocent deaths why don't ya?

[Union Of V]

Originally Posted by Spontaneous Smile

As for building a mosque near the twin towers site. No, I think it's just too early for that. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be one in New York, EVER.

The thing is, in my books down the street, third left, and on your right at the next intersection is not too near. If it was within eyeshot I'd understand.

[Alrex]

I am non religious, but I don't see how it is any different then burning the bible

[Union Of V]

Originally Posted by Alrex

I am non religious, but I don't see how it is any different then burning the bible

link!

(10ch)

[The Man And XX Master]

This seems to be one big attempt to get some media attention either to address the mosque being built in New York or just to get attention for himself and his "outreach center". He didn't do a lot of preaching or saying that god inspired him to do this (may have said this), he just said he wants to along with his small center. If he truly was so hateful of Islam, why wouldn't he just burn the Qu'rans on Sept 11th as opposed to making this whole media frenzy? It also seems a bit silly thinking that the imam involved in building the mosque for the Muslim center in New York would give into this guy's wishes. If anything, the mosque would be a place to discourage such nonsensical hate I think, so it'd be a perfect example of why to have the Muslim center and mosque.

I was also thinking, if he does or doesn't do as he initially stated, is this bullshit still going to keep going for other things? After all, he's put himself and his center on the map and very well known internationally now.

[Silver Halide]

This is definitely a terrorist act. As the previous poster stated, he could have easily just done the burning had he really wanted to without inciting the anger and fear he did by making it such a sensationalized subject. Even though he backed down for now this is probably going to follow him and his followers around for the rest of their lives.

Not only that, such an extreme threat will only tend to spawn more hatred and animosity. It is sad.

[The Man And XX Master]

Originally Posted by Silver Halide

This is definitely a terrorist act. As the previous poster stated, he could have easily just done the burning had he really wanted to without inciting the anger and fear he did by making it such a sensationalized subject. Even though he backed down for now this is probably going to follow him and his followers around for the rest of their lives.

Not only that, such an extreme threat will only tend to spawn more hatred and animosity. It is sad.

On the news, they showed how various countries in the Middle East reacted, such as Afganistan, and judging by that, this guy and his followers pretty much signed and stamped their death warrant because others are going to respond in a very hateful way. You're right in that hatred fuels hatred.

I wonder if he'll have a second go at this towards the controversial mosque or something else and how much people will believe him then. If he does have a second go at it doing the same method he did this time, then as much as it would be a terrorist act, it would also make it look like he wants attention. I wonder if he'll get arrested for what he did or if the government will let it go because he didn't carry through with it but did have everything set up and planned.

[Composure]

http://www.news.com.au/national/lawy...-1225919970728

A Brisbane (Australian) man burns/smokes pages from the Koran and the Bible.

I found it interesting... then again, I don't believe in uniform belief.

[Guile]

Darn, I was hoping this would go through, although I thought it would be funnier if we all bought little twin tower shaped torches and threw then at it, just for the sake of irony...

[luvflamingos]

I wish there was more tolerance in the world, but then, I also wish hugs could replace hate.

[Guile]

Originally Posted by luvflamingos

I wish there was more tolerance in the world, but then, I also wish hugs could replace hate.

Do you know how many jobs we would lose then? Nice way to completely ruin the economy!

[Union Of V]

Originally Posted by luvflamingos

I also wish hugs could replace hate.

+1

I do have a theory on how hugs and cuddles could entirely revolutionize society...

[Cosmo]

For spelling Qu'ran correctly, you win 1 Free Internets!

[luvflamingos]

Originally Posted by Guile

Do you know how many jobs we would lose then? Nice way to completely ruin the economy!

Hmmm.. I know I am young, but I really don't understand how not hating on other people can completely ruin the economy.

[Guile]

Originally Posted by luvflamingos

Hmmm.. I know I am young, but I really don't understand how not hating on other people can completely ruin the economy.

Well it was partially a joke and also serious. You see millions of jobs rely on the weapons industry, if there were no wars, ever, then anyone in the military would be out of work (upwards of 3 million Americans). Then counter-terrorism, small arms, military research, most of the aerospace industry, Nasa, etc. Alll or nearly all gone. War brings about developments in technology, especially medicine and electronics. We need war to keep the economy moving.

[thebigmole]

Originally Posted by Guile

Well it was partially a joke and also serious. You see millions of jobs rely on the weapons industry, if there were no wars, ever, then anyone in the military would be out of work (upwards of 3 million Americans). Then counter-terrorism, small arms, military research, most of the aerospace industry, Nasa, etc. Alll or nearly all gone. War brings about developments in technology, especially medicine and electronics. We need war to keep the economy moving.

That's actually a really good point, sadly. However I think that we could have more tolerance among regular people and we can leave intolerance to the politicians, after all they are so good at it.

[MisplacedDreamer]

Originally Posted by thebigmole

God everything psycho happens in Florida, I say this as a Floridian. I heard about this a few weeks ago. I think that they should get more than just paying a fine, they should be arrested for arsen or something.

Also since it's illegal I don't see how if can fall under freedom of speech. After all it's illegal to burn the flag, and in Gainsville it's illegal to burn Holy Scriptures. It's not freedom of speech it's breaking the law.

I thought that flag burning was designated as freedom of speech by the Supreme Court in more than one court case. If so, it may be a law that is on the books but is unenforceable so they don't charge people that do burn flags. Or some idiot attached flag burning to end of something he didn't want to pass in hopes that it wouldn't pass.

I don't really care whether they burned them or not.

If they really wanted to tick off Muslims, they should just draw pictures of the prophet Muhammad and post them all over the Internet. Maybe make a stone statue of him.

Oh, and the community center here also has a Mosque attached to it. There's a field for sports, a school, a morgue for traditional prep of the body, meeting rooms, a library (it may not be public though), and more.

[Cosmo]

Originally Posted by Guile

Well it was partially a joke and also serious. You see millions of jobs rely on the weapons industry, if there were no wars, ever, then anyone in the military would be out of work (upwards of 3 million Americans). Then counter-terrorism, small arms, military research, most of the aerospace industry, Nasa, etc. Alll or nearly all gone. War brings about developments in technology, especially medicine and electronics. We need war to keep the economy moving.

I think this is a first, but... I totally agree with you

[Brandon]

I'm not against burning the Qu'ran. I have huge respect for my Islamic friends, and burning the Qu'ran wouldn't upset me. If an Atheist burns a Bible, I also wouldn't care. Burning a book isn't going to change anything -- the only thing you're doing is adding to pollution, wasting your money, and being selfish. If an anti-American burns an American flag, I also don't care. Burning the flag will only burn the flag, not get rid of the idea of America being a "free" country. Burning the flag, Bible, or Qu'ran represents your huge disrespect for what it stands for; you're expressing your opinion in a visual and demeaning way. However, when you take your beliefs further and threaten someone else because their beliefs are different than yours, then we have a problem on our hands. What I always say...if people have such a problem with America's laws, or the people, or whatever, then do something in a positive manner instead of sit in your chair and complain about it all day. If you got a problem and yet don't do anything about it, then stop complaining or get the fuck out of America . Burning the Qu'ran won't prove anything, or motivate people to take action against the Islamic population. Martin Luther King Jr. made a difference through nonviolence...and yet he still got shot. If you really want to convey a message, if you really want to motivate people to make a difference, then ignorance will only take you so far until you realize that what you're doing isn't making a difference; it's just making you look stupid. Lol

[Tomb]

Originally Posted by Union Of V

There have been so many news stories about the fundamentalist Christian Dove World Outreach Center's plan to burn copies of the Qu'ran on 11th September as a "warning message" to their Islamic counterparts, that I cannot pick any single one. Lets just say it's generated quite a lot of criticism.

The first thing this story makes me feel is sadness for those who will invariably be killed as a result of what is essentially a propaganda stunt for Al Qaeda and their following. Then, from a more liberal point of view it saddens me that this act is being compared to the supposed "building" of a Mosque "on" Ground Zero. Since when is the creation of a place of worship comparable to the destruction of a religious text? They are complete opposites!

Thoughts, anyone?

I respect all religions that sends positive messages to those who practice it.

but i dont understand why they would build a Mosque near ground zero. Its common sense to not put it there. Im sure he realestate price isnt cheap there anyways...

Because the truth is what happens if there is a major shootout at a university and 1 month later som1 opens a guns store next door..

There will always be a stigma about the religon in that area.. and its not about religon its just bad memories and human nature.

[thebigmole]

Originally Posted by Tomb

I respect all religions that sends positive messages to those who practice it.

but i dont understand why they would build a Mosque near ground zero. Its common sense to not put it there. Im sure he realestate price isnt cheap there anyways...

Because the truth is what happens if there is a major shootout at a university and 1 month later som1 opens a guns store next door..

There will always be a stigma about the religon in that area.. and its not about religon its just bad memories and human nature.

Please PLEASE research things before you post about them. They are not building a Mosque near ground zero. A Muslim community has been using a building near where the Twin Towers were for years. They wish to renovate the building to a community center, where there will be a prayer room. So not only is it not a Mosque, it's not new, they are already there and have been for years.

And I'm not sure I understand your first sentence, are you supporting the Muslim religion, or the psychos that wanted to burn the Qu'ran?

[MisplacedDreamer]

To be fair, there does not appear to be a dedicated Iman at that prayer room so it won't be a mosque. There also does not seem to be exactly clear guidelines for what defines a mosque and just saying it's a "community center" does not mean it isn't a mosque. There is a community center who has more community functions than what has been listed so far for the NY center down the road and it is also a mosque. It's one of the first pictures that pop up in a google search of "American mosques."