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Eminem and Schools - September 24th 2010, 07:13 AM

I know we all have different opinions on hate speech, should it be banned, what constitutes it. Bet here's a good question, should inappropriate music be allowed at schools? Does it constitute hate speech, or freedom of speech?

So here are two scenarios, one where the person is listening to it privately (headphones are what-not), and another, where they are sharing it with their friends, as in playing it within their group, not too loud, but if you are reasonably close you can hear it.

Let's say it's one of Eminem's songs, here are the lyrics from "Criminal",

"My words are like a dagger with a jagged edge
That'll stab you in the head / Whether you're a fag or lez
Or the homosex, hermaph or a trans-a-vest / Pants or dress /
Hate fags? The answer's "yes"

Now should that be allowed at schools, or to be even sold to children?

I'll respond after a few of you do.


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Re: Eminem and Schools - September 24th 2010, 07:28 AM

eminem actually got banned from my school right before i left in i think 2002 or 03..
i think eminem can be innapporpiate for certain ages till like 15 ..should it be banned? possibally or maybe make it a rule if your gonna listen to it that you have to be wearing head phones.
i completelly agree with making a age restriction to the ages who can buy it..
   
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Re: Eminem and Schools - September 24th 2010, 07:58 AM

Uhm, there already IS an age restriction on who can buy it, its called the "Parental Advisory" sticker. However, many stores don't enforce it.

I can see the logic in banning that kind of music within the school walls, because it sings of hate and such. BUT, I think the bigger issue is, school shootings and other violence seems to be blamed on music. And well, eliminating music with hateful lyrics at school could slightly eliminate this motivation to hurt/kill/etc. based on social status or whatnot. Also, there will be less stereotypes that can be blamed for problems too.

But in the end, the "Parental Advisory" logo is on those CDs for a good reason, and the parents should ultimately have some control over their kids, since they know best what their kids can and can't handle. Some kids struggle to define fantasy from reality, and may assume a bad song is based on real-life experience, whereas a more rational kid will know that the song is based on fiction, and the acts aren't appropriate to re-enact.


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Re: Eminem and Schools - September 24th 2010, 08:50 AM

I don't really think it makes much sense to ban "inappropriate" music in schools. For a number of reasons:

1. Who decides what is and isn't appropriate? Adults often don't understand the language or context of modern day music, so can they really judge current music on their own standards?
2. It's not really enforceable. Kids will listen to music before or after school. They'll probably listen to the inappropriate songs in school-time anyway. If they change the titles on their iPods, how will a teacher know?
3. If you're going to ban certain music, will there be an ever-changing list of banned songs? Or will we ban artists? It seems like a lot of work for not a very good reason.
4. It's a slippery slope. If you start banning inappropriate music, then you start banning books as well. Should we ban all media that talks of homosexuality and so on in a negative light? What if you have a book in which one character is homophobic, but the rest aren't? Does it get banned?

If a student is blasting music that is obviously hateful, then I think that it's perfectly reasonable for a teacher to tell them to turn it off. I mean, loud music in general is annoying and doesn't have a place in schools since it's a distraction. But if they're listening to it on their iPods or in a small group, then they should be allowed to.

In Australia, I believe music devices and phones are banned from being used in school-time. If you want to ban some music, then a rule like that, where all music is banned, should be enforced. It's fairer and easier to enforce.



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Re: Eminem and Schools - September 24th 2010, 09:00 AM

Personally I am against banning Eminem, I hear plenty of music I find distasteful, but is allowed just because it doesn't curse. Anyway, I respect him as an artist and a person, and what he says really is true, he has a lot of emotion in his music. Okay, I can see were in aggreance that they may not blast it to the world, but it should be allowed.

What about Nationalist/Rock Against Communism music (Neo-Nazi Bands)? Should that be allowed?

Example

The lyrics are basically something along the lines of "They fought for us day and night, eternal glory of our army! They fought for us in every battle, eternal glory of the Waffen-SS!"


That technically isn't the best example of RAC, this is better, but I don't find the song that good.

Lyrics for the second one

"Grandpa was a Sturmfuehrer, in the SS.
Sturmfuehrer, Sturmfuehrer, in the SS.

In an SS Panzer unit grandpa rolled with pride.
Cleansing Bolshevics* from the Russian country side!
Every red commie bastard that stood in his way.
Hey would shoot them down, day after day!"

*This means Communists


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Re: Eminem and Schools - September 24th 2010, 09:35 AM

this thread brings me back memories... art class, loud speakers on eminem, no concentration... so yeah, it was allowed and LOUDLY allowed. now in high school, music is districted anyways, but Serbians listen to more trashy music than the mentioned above(don't ask, i hate that one).

personally, i don't really care if it has an parental advisory sticked to it because people would sell anything (fake/original CDs) and teens already use internet to download it illegally, how surprising. how does that connect to school? WELL, they put it on headphones and listen without getting caught. i don't do any of these things, i'm a home rocker/ballad fan and keep it to myself. not in school, it's a place to learn. you got my opinion out of this already.
...and to add, i have nothing against teens listening to eminem in school, it's their choice, that kind of music does build character after all. you just cannot control them even if you just banned anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShimmeringFaerie View Post

1. Who decides what is and isn't appropriate? Adults often don't understand the language or context of modern day music, so can they really judge current music on their own standards?
2. It's not really enforceable. Kids will listen to music before or after school. They'll probably listen to the inappropriate songs in school-time anyway. If they change the titles on their iPods, how will a teacher know?
3. If you're going to ban certain music, will there be an ever-changing list of banned songs? Or will we ban artists? It seems like a lot of work for not a very good reason.
4. It's a slippery slope. If you start banning inappropriate music, then you start banning books as well. Should we ban all media that talks of homosexuality and so on in a negative light? What if you have a book in which one character is homophobic, but the rest aren't? Does it get banned?
totally agreed. adults are parents and teachers, less understanding for the culture we're in today. they should really look into this. :/ plus banning from school won't change anything, teens are clever and sneaky.


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Re: Eminem and Schools - September 26th 2010, 06:08 AM

There already is a warning label on the front of CD's so young children cannot buy the CD's unless an older person (i.e. parent) buys it for them. Of course, they could download it off the Internet but putting age restrictions on that has already failed.

I don't think Eminem should be banned for a few reasons. First, banning Eminem suggests that so many other bands/artists which use the same type of lyrics are acceptable. That makes no sense at all. It's like banning Metallica from schools because it's metal music but allowing all other metal and rock music. Second, there is no criteria if one artist is randomly banned while others are not. It suggests that such artists get banned due to emotional reasons rather than an objective one. Third, it's virtually unenforcable unless a group of kids are stupid enough to play it loud on campus where teachers can penalize them and confiscate the material. Besides, even if kids were doing this, the teachers won't know all the lyrics (much less understand them) so they couldn't even identify whether it is Eminem or another rapper. If the kids are smart, they're going to say it's not Eminem so the teachers won't be able to enforce the punishment. If the student is using headphones and not blasting it so loud people down the hall can hear it, the teachers won't even know unless they start grabbing and checking. Last, banning music seems awfully close to banning books because both have words and information.


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Re: Eminem and Schools - September 26th 2010, 07:09 AM

As said, there's already a parental advisory sticker on his music, and other music inappropriate for minors. And I agree that a lot of his music (and other's) contains hate lyrics. However, a lot is also inspirational and encouraging for people who are "different".
Restricted music is like movies. Just because they have an age sticker on doesn't mean kids are going to not listen. Just because something is banned, doesn't mean kids will stop doing it. Fair play if schools want to ban it being played out loud, just like they ban hate talk. But they can't really stop them listening to it privately.


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Re: Eminem and Schools - September 26th 2010, 03:17 PM

Teenagers at my high school would have their music players confiscated if they had them on during school time (so in pocket is okay).

As for before or after school, I am not sure. I think they would be told to keep it down so it doesn't bother other students usually or the home-ec teacher would try to take it.
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Re: Eminem and Schools - September 26th 2010, 03:24 PM

I don't really see how you can ban a certain artist in schools. Yes, his lyrics can be offensive, but that's not going to stop a 'fan' from listening to the music. Whether in school or out. I know there can be a ban on listening to music in school. In my old school you couldn't listen to music in lessons (obviously) and if teachers saw you with headphones in they could tell you to take them out. And there's no loud music to be played around the school either. Which I think is a fair comment. But I don't see how they could ban a specific artists' music.

Yes, it's not good for the children to listen to it, but if they have access to it and they want to, then they're going to listen to it. Eminem CD's can't be sold to youngters, there's a advisory warning and they'd need an adult to purchase it for them. And in this day and age, you can download all the music you want anyway. So if they want the Eminem album, they could get it easily.

Music shouldn't be allowed in school during lessons. And not allowed loudly during the breaks, but it's down to each school and the strictness of the teachers.



   
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Re: Eminem and Schools - September 26th 2010, 11:04 PM

look at most of the cd's eminem has they already have an explicit lyrics sticker on them hat means its not supose to be sold to minors the problem is parents who think its ok to buy the cd and give it to there 13 year old the fcc is very strict about making shure and album with hateful or explicit lyrics has the warning sticker not the artists fault no1 pays attention to them


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Re: Eminem and Schools - September 27th 2010, 06:07 AM

Although I don't agree with the song, you can't ban an artist simply based on the lyrics on one song. Plus, his music has a PA sticker, minors techincally can't buy it, unfortunely a lot of stores don't care. Music players aren't allowed in schools here during school time, I think anyway. I know cell phones are banned during school, so I'm sure music players are too.


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Re: Eminem and Schools - September 27th 2010, 07:05 AM

What about music without the stickers, as they don't have bad language, but they have negative themes, like my reference above, someone like Landser?

No bad words, but the message may be conceived as bad.


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Re: Eminem and Schools - September 27th 2010, 12:50 PM

At my high school, we're allowed to use our iPods at the discretion of a teacher. (So, if we're working quietly by ourselves, our teacher might let us use them.) As far as I know, there isn't any banned music. Most kids use ear buds, but if someone is blasting music (inappropriate or not), most likely he'll get told to turn it off.

As many other people have said, I find banning certain artists and songs in schools pointless. Kids should be allowed to listen to whatever they want, as long as they're courteous enough to be discrete and use headphones. I mean, are teachers really going to take the time to check all their students' iPods to make sure they aren't listening to inappropriate songs? It's a rule that, if instituted, probably wouldn't be enforced very well, if at all.

Furthermore, most people I know who listen to arguably offensive music do not actually concur with the lyrics. They listen to it because they like the beat, or it makes them feel rebellious. Just because someone listens to Eminem's "Criminal" does not necessarily mean he's going to go out and actively discriminate against homosexuals. Even I have listened to songs that could very well be deemed inappropriate, but that does not mean I actually agree with their meaning.

Sometimes, music is just music. If someone is using it to antagonize someone else, then yes, I see the problem. But most of the time, you can't take everything the music industry puts out there to heart.
   
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