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Gianna Jessen - September 29th 2010, 01:46 AM

Gianna Jessen survived a saline late term abortion and she is opposing abortion and glorifying Christ.




LINK

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So what do you all think of this?
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Re: Gianna Jessen - September 29th 2010, 04:49 AM

In the first part, which was honestly the only video that I saw, she talked about us being willing to be hated. But it's not just pro-life who are hated, but also pro-choice. Both sides hate each other. Although her story is pretty interesting, not to mention miraculous, it doesn't really change my viewpoint personally. She survived, while most, if not all, of aborted fetuses die. Miracle, touching story, but I'm still pro-choice

And her argument on how she disagrees that the stronger should dominate the weak, yes...but the stronger have always dominated the weak since day one. Charles Darwin presented the idea of natural selection, and is apparent throughout history. It is in human nature because life is a constant struggle for survival.

Towards the end, she talks about how she keeps saying God and all that jazz and that how can she be limping and such and not give her whole life to Christ? And I thought....motivation? She is motivated because she feels that Christ is the one who gave her life and she has battled through her problems growing up through childhood because of Christ. But can people who are not motivated through Christ still be motivated? Can someone acquire motivation beyond God? Of course. She said some other things that I don't agree with, but I might comment on them later.

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Re: Gianna Jessen - September 30th 2010, 12:57 AM

I agree that it is a very touching and miraculous story. She is indeed an incredibly strong woman with a fighting spirit. I salute her. However, I don't agree with the opposition of abortion, as I am pro-choice. I fully believe in a woman's rights to her own body, and if aborting the child is the best thing for someone at a particular time, then while unfortunate, I think it's what she needs to do for herself.

Everyday, people tell us that we need to look after ourselves first and foremost. I don't believe a woman should have to give up her life for a period of nine months and go through the agony of childbirth if she isn't emotionally or physically fit to handle it. When still within the womb, I do think a fetus's life falls second in priority to its mother's, as it is not even capable of living independently early on in the pregnancy, when most abortions are performed. As Brandon said, it's natural selection - survival of the fittest. At that point, I do not believe it can be considered a separate entity.

With that said, I do agree with some of her arguments. I agree that babies who survive abortions should not be left to die after birth. After they are born, they have as much right to life as anyone else. Also, I don't believe that babies should be aborted simply because there is a possibility that they may be disabled. But, overall, I am pro-choice, and as long as a woman is prudent in her decision-making (and I understand that not all will be), I think she has the right to that option of abortion.

As a woman (or a developing one ), I personally do not believe that my body belongs to anyone. It does not belong to my family, boyfriend, girlfriend, etc. I don't think it even belongs to God. (Again, this is my personal opinion.) Maybe he created me indirectly (as I believe in evolution and not the individual crafting of people), but in doing so, he provided me with full rights to my body. I see it as similar to giving a gift to a friend. Once that gift is given, you cannot take it back. You cannot dictate what she does with that gift, or how she uses it. I am my own person and as long as I treat myself respectfully, I do believe that I have free reign to make my own decisions regarding my body.

But that's just what I think.
   
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Re: Gianna Jessen - September 30th 2010, 01:15 AM

I can't watch videos on my computer because i have no sound- but can someone summarize for me? What this is all about?




   
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Re: Gianna Jessen - September 30th 2010, 02:42 AM

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Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
In the first part, which was honestly the only video that I saw, she talked about us being willing to be hated. But it's not just pro-life who are hated, but also pro-choice. Both sides hate each other. Although her story is pretty interesting, not to mention miraculous, it doesn't really change my viewpoint personally. She survived, while most, if not all, of aborted fetuses die. Miracle, touching story, but I'm still pro-choice
Lol watch the second part But thanks for being honest about not watching all of it. A lot of pro-choicers donít like being hated. What she meant was that she is great with being hated. It is a great story. I love it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
And her argument on how she disagrees that the stronger should dominate the weak, yes...but the stronger have always dominated the weak since day one. Charles Darwin presented the idea of natural selection, and is apparent throughout history. It is in human nature because life is a constant struggle for survival.

I think that the strong can learn from the weak. The men in the Bible (the great men) werenít always that strong. David killed a giant with a stone.


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Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
Towards the end, she talks about how she keeps saying God and all that jazz and that how can she be limping and such and not give her whole life to Christ? And I thought....motivation? She is motivated because she feels that Christ is the one who gave her life and she has battled through her problems growing up through childhood because of Christ. But can people who are not motivated through Christ still be motivated? Can someone acquire motivation beyond God? Of course. She said some other things that I don't agree with, but I might comment on them later.

Motivation from Christ. That is how I view it While I do realize that others get motivation without Christ, I can literally see God working through her.

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Originally Posted by Shades of Silver View Post
I agree that it is a very touching and miraculous story. She is indeed an incredibly strong woman with a fighting spirit. I salute her. However, I don't agree with the opposition of abortion, as I am pro-choice. I fully believe in a woman's rights to her own body, and if aborting the child is the best thing for someone at a particular time, then while unfortunate, I think it's what she needs to do for herself.
I am pro-life. What about the babyís rights though? I think that is one of the main points of what Gianna is discussing.

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Originally Posted by Shades of Silver View Post
Everyday, people tell us that we need to look after ourselves first and foremost. I don't believe a woman should have to give up her life for a period of nine months and go through the agony of childbirth if she isn't emotionally or physically fit to handle it. When still within the womb, I do think a fetus's life falls second in priority to its mother's, as it is not even capable of living independently early on in the pregnancy, when most abortions are performed. As Brandon said, it's natural selection - survival of the fittest. At that point, I do not believe it can be considered a separate entity.
I believe that people should have respect for the babyís life. I believe that it can be considered a separate entity

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Originally Posted by Shades of Silver View Post
As a woman (or a developing one ), I personally do not believe that my body belongs to anyone. It does not belong to my family, boyfriend, girlfriend, etc. I don't think it even belongs to God. (Again, this is my personal opinion.) Maybe he created me indirectly (as I believe in evolution and not the individual crafting of people), but in doing so, he provided me with full rights to my body. I see it as similar to giving a gift to a friend. Once that gift is given, you cannot take it back. You cannot dictate what she does with that gift, or how she uses it. I am my own person and as long as I treat myself respectfully, I do believe that I have free reign to make my own decisions regarding my body.

I believe that my body belongs to God. I believe that he hand-crafted me too : ) Although I donít agree with your beliefs, I do respect them.



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Originally Posted by skylight View Post
I can't watch videos on my computer because i have no sound- but can someone summarize for me? What this is all about?
http://www.abortionfacts.com/survivors/giannajessen.asp

Read that
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Re: Gianna Jessen - September 30th 2010, 08:14 AM

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I am pro-life. What about the babyís rights though? I think that is one of the main points of what Gianna is discussing.
Well, early on in the pregnancy, the baby relies completely on the mother and has no chance of surviving on its own. I suppose I don't feel that rights can be applied to something so co-dependent. It is still a part of its mother at this point; she is living for both of them. The baby can't think or feel on its own.

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I believe that my body belongs to God. I believe that he hand-crafted me too : ) Although I donít agree with your beliefs, I do respect them.
Thank you. And I respect yours as well.
   
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Re: Gianna Jessen - September 30th 2010, 11:25 AM

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Lol watch the second part But thanks for being honest about not watching all of it. A lot of pro-choicers donít like being hated. What she meant was that she is great with being hated. It is a great story. I love it.


Neither do Pro-life? I agree with her that it's great to be hated because there's noting pro-life people can do against my beliefs on pro-choice while there's nothing that I can do against pro-life beliefs. But she is talking on only one side of the spectrum. She neglected the fact that hatred occurs in both pro-life and pro-choice people. It's not just pro-life who are hated.



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I think that the strong can learn from the weak. The men in the Bible (the great men) werenít always that strong. David killed a giant with a stone.


It wouldn't make sense for a thriving civilization to learn from a small group of people who will shortly die out. If you thrive and are a successful civilization, why would you need to learn from anybody? You wouldn't. The small group would probably need to learn from you. A fetus can't teach you anything. Our experience teaches us. Saying that the mother, the strong, can learn from a fetus, the weak, is like saying "I learned how to ride my bike today. My bike taught me." Wouldn't make sense.


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Motivation from Christ. That is how I view it While I do realize that others get motivation without Christ, I can literally see God working through her.


So if I looked through the mirror and said that God was working through me, would I be wrong?
   
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Re: Gianna Jessen - September 30th 2010, 04:20 PM

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Well, early on in the pregnancy, the baby relies completely on the mother and has no chance of surviving on its own. I suppose I don't feel that rights can be applied to something so co-dependent. It is still a part of its mother at this point; she is living for both of them. The baby can't think or feel on its own.
I think about it this way.
Okay yes, the baby relies completely on it's mother.
But, a newborn out of the womb relies completely on its mother (or its guardian)
Someone with mental retardation relies completely on people to take care of him/her.
A 3 year old relies completely on its parents or guardians.
I think it is wrong to disregard life simply because the person can't function by themselves.


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Neither do Pro-life? I agree with her that it's great to be hated because there's noting pro-life people can do against my beliefs on pro-choice while there's nothing that I can do against pro-life beliefs. But she is talking on only one side of the spectrum. She neglected the fact that hatred occurs in both pro-life and pro-choice people. It's not just pro-life who are hated.


Pro-choice people do get hated, but pro-life people get hated to a greater degree. I am more likely to get hated for my pro-life beliefs than you are to get hated for my pro-choice beliefs.
Gianna is more likely to be hated. That is what she means.


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It wouldn't make sense for a thriving civilization to learn from a small group of people who will shortly die out. If you thrive and are a successful civilization, why would you need to learn from anybody? You wouldn't. The small group would probably need to learn from you. A fetus can't teach you anything. Our experience teaches us. Saying that the mother, the strong, can learn from a fetus, the weak, is like saying "I learned how to ride my bike today. My bike taught me." Wouldn't make sense.
There are two meanings for weaker.
Weaker as in 'less capable'
Weaker as in 'A person who doesn't have the best speaking skills, not the best at everything, etc.'
She is obviously referring to the latter.
A lot of times people will get ignored because others think they aren't good enough, smart enough, etc., when really we can learn from those people.


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So if I looked through the mirror and said that God was working through me, would I be wrong?
Depends. What evidence would you have that God is working through you?
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Re: Gianna Jessen - September 30th 2010, 04:39 PM

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Pro-choice people do get hated, but pro-life people get hated to a greater degree. I am more likely to get hated for my pro-life beliefs than you are to get hated for my pro-choice beliefs.
Gianna is more likely to be hated. That is what she means.




I agree, actually.




   
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Re: Gianna Jessen - September 30th 2010, 07:24 PM

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There are two meanings for weaker.
Weaker as in 'less capable'
Weaker as in 'A person who doesn't have the best speaking skills, not the best at everything, etc.'
She is obviously referring to the latter.
A lot of times people will get ignored because others think they aren't good enough, smart enough, etc., when really we can learn from those people.


I understand that, but people have abortions for a variety of reasons; not just because the baby might have birth defects. If she's indirectly saying "learn from me, because I'm cute but I have cerebral palsy...hate me, pro-choice fuckers", then what she's really saying is "don't get rid of abortions just because your child might have certain birth defects" and THAT I could agree with. But then again, I don't really know what she's trying to say...get rid of abortion altogether? But you still can't learn from a fetus. She can't tell you what it's like being aborted, nor can anyone remember popping out of their mom's vagina (if they think they can...they're obviously on crack). Her living with cerebral palsy is more of a self-esteem issue rather than an abortion issue. And besides, the abortion is what caused her cerebral palsy in the first place...so it's not because of her cerebral palsy why she was aborted, but for another reason. So I tend to think of that evidence as a sub-speech on self-esteem issues and not relevant to abortion. Then again, I could be wrong.




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Depends. What evidence would you have that God is working through you?
Do I need a reason why God is working through me? You said that you could "literally" see God working through her. Why is that? Because of her struggles? So you're saying that God doesn't work through people who don't have her struggles? If I have problems with my self-esteem, or if I'm in physical pain from working out at my gym (which is a Christian gym, strangely enough), then God is not working through me?
   
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Re: Gianna Jessen - September 30th 2010, 08:20 PM

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I think about it this way.
Okay yes, the baby relies completely on it's mother.
But, a newborn out of the womb relies completely on its mother (or its guardian)
Someone with mental retardation relies completely on people to take care of him/her.
A 3 year old relies completely on its parents or guardians.
I think it is wrong to disregard life simply because the person can't function by themselves.
But the thing is, a baby within the womb has not even gotten to experience life yet. Many people debate whether or not a fetus is truly alive, and that question does not have a concrete answer at this point in time. However, personally, I do not see the fetus as being completely alive until after a certain point in the pregnancy is reached. While this may sound a bit harsh, I see it as being kind of like a virus. A virus is not a living thing. Why? Well, one of the reasons is that it requires a host cell in order to reproduce and thrive. A fetus is somewhat similar to this. It needs its mother in order to allow its cells to reproduce and consequently, to grow. If you severed the umbilical cord early on in the pregnancy, that fetus would not survive.

So yes, a newborn relies on its mother. Someone with Down Syndrome may rely on a caretaker. But they rely on people in a different way than a fetus does. Plus, a fetus in the early stages of pregnancy reacts only minimally, if at all, to stimuli. It does not think or feel on its own. So, I tend to see a fetus more as potential life.


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Originally Posted by Strawberries View Post
Pro-choice people do get hated, but pro-life people get hated to a greater degree. I am more likely to get hated for my pro-life beliefs than you are to get hated for my pro-choice beliefs.
Gianna is more likely to be hated. That is what she means.
I'm curious as to why you think this. I personally don't see pro-lifers as being more likely to be hated. In fact, if you look at this poll
from May 2010, 2% more Americans identify as pro-life. Sure, that 2% may not be overly significant, but it at the very least goes to show that pro-life and pro-choice have nearly reached an equilibrium. And so technically, if that's the case, both are just as likely to be hated.

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Depends. What evidence would you have that God is working through you?

I don't mean to butt in, but what evidence would you have that he is not? Even in the case of Ms. Jessen, I'm not sure you can really prove whether or not God is working alongside her. It seems to me that you believe he is because she is devoutly religious and a follower of Christ. But can't anyone dedicate her life to reiterating what the Bible says? Does it really necessarily mean God is working through her?

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Re: Gianna Jessen - October 1st 2010, 02:45 AM

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I understand that, but people have abortions for a variety of reasons; not just because the baby might have birth defects. If she's indirectly saying "learn from me, because I'm cute but I have cerebral palsy...hate me, pro-choice fuckers", then what she's really saying is "don't get rid of abortions just because your child might have certain birth defects" and THAT I could agree with. But then again, I don't really know what she's trying to say...get rid of abortion altogether? But you still can't learn from a fetus. She can't tell you what it's like being aborted, nor can anyone remember popping out of their mom's vagina (if they think they can...they're obviously on crack). Her living with cerebral palsy is more of a self-esteem issue rather than an abortion issue. And besides, the abortion is what caused her cerebral palsy in the first place...so it's not because of her cerebral palsy why she was aborted, but for another reason. So I tend to think of that evidence as a sub-speech on self-esteem issues and not relevant to abortion. Then again, I could be wrong.
That is what she is saying. "Don't abort a child because of birth defects."
But that wasn't HER case. Her case was that her mother didn't want her.
Well, scientists do know that babies fight back when they are having abortions. They obviously feel some sort of pain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
Do I need a reason why God is working through me? You said that you could "literally" see God working through her. Why is that? Because of her struggles? So you're saying that God doesn't work through people who don't have her struggles? If I have problems with my self-esteem, or if I'm in physical pain from working out at my gym (which is a Christian gym, strangely enough), then God is not working through me?
Okay honestly, whether or not God is working through somone is something only God knows for absolute sure. It's just obvious at times when I see God working through people's lives.
But God works through people even when others don't see.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shades of Silver View Post
[color=DarkRed]But the thing is, a baby within the womb has not even gotten to experience life yet. Many people debate whether or not a fetus is truly alive, and that question does not have a concrete answer at this point in time. However, personally, I do not see the fetus as being completely alive until after a certain point in the pregnancy is reached. While this may sound a bit harsh, I see it as being kind of like a virus. A virus is not a living thing. Why? Well, one of the reasons is that it requires a host cell in order to reproduce and thrive. A fetus is somewhat similar to this. It needs its mother in order to allow its cells to reproduce and consequently, to grow. If you severed the umbilical cord early on in the pregnancy, that fetus would not survive.

So yes, a newborn relies on its mother. Someone with Down Syndrome may rely on a caretaker. But they rely on people in a different way than a fetus does. Plus, a fetus in the early stages of pregnancy reacts only minimally, if at all, to stimuli. It does not think or feel on its own. So, I tend to see a fetus more as potential life.
I believe that life begins at the moment of conception.

CREDIT FOR THAT
*The heart starts beating between 18 and 25 days.
*Electrical brainwaves have been recorded at 43 days on an EEG.
*The brain and all body systems are present by 8 weeks and functioning a month later.
*At 8 weeks, the baby will wake and sleep, make a fist, suck his thumb, and get hiccups.
*At the end of 9 weeks, the baby has his own unique finger prints.
*At 11-12 weeks, the baby is sensative to heat, touch, light and noise. All body systems are working. He weighs about 28g and is 6-7.5 cm long.


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Originally Posted by Shades of Silver View Post
I'm curious as to why you think this. I personally don't see pro-lifers as being more likely to be hated. In fact, if you look at this poll[color=DarkRed] from May 2010, 2% more Americans identify as pro-life. Sure, that 2% may not be overly significant, but it at the very least goes to show that pro-life and pro-choice have nearly reached an equilibrium. And so technically, if that's the case, both are just as likely to be hated.
I personally do not hate any pro-choicer/abortion people. I have been hated on a lot for my beliefs and so have a lot of people that I know who are pro-life. I find that poll interesting considering I know a lot more people who are pro-choice than pro-life. Who did they poll?

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Originally Posted by Shades of Silver View Post
I don't mean to butt in, but what evidence would you have that he is not? Even in the case of Ms. Jessen, I'm not sure you can really prove whether or not God is working alongside her. It seems to me that you believe he is because she is devoutly religious and a follower of Christ. But can't anyone dedicate her life to reiterating what the Bible says? Does it really necessarily mean God is working through her?


I don't have evidence of course. I can't say for sure, but from her story, it's pretty clear that Christ has been helping her and helping her overcome her struggles.
Being devoutly religious really doesn't have anything to do with having a relationship with God IMO.
Anyone can dedicate their life to Christ and once said person does, Christ will work through them
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Re: Gianna Jessen - October 1st 2010, 03:17 AM

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That is what she is saying. "Don't abort a child because of birth defects."
But that wasn't HER case. Her case was that her mother didn't want her.
Well, scientists do know that babies fight back when they are having abortions. They obviously feel some sort of pain.


A fetus is not a baby, just like an embryo is not a fetus. It's a developing baby, but not a baby. And I never mentioned anything about pain. I wasn't arguing that fetuses experience pain when given abortions -- I'd imagine so after they formed enough to develop nerves and shit. What I was saying was that she can't remember what it's like to be aborted. She has to go by what other people say and what the documents say to be able to say that she was supposed to die from the abortion. Even if you went through pain, you still wouldn't be able to remember.

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Okay honestly, whether or not God is working through somone is something only God knows for absolute sure. It's just obvious at times when I see God working through people's lives.
But God works through people even when others don't see.


And you just completely contradicted yourself. "Only God knows for absolute sure" but it's obvious for YOU to see God working through people's lives. So by your logic, in order for that to be a true statement, is that you are God. And you can't say that you could be God because that goes against Christian teachings. So that doesn't really work. Are you God, or are you a Christian who believes you can see God working through people's lives? Because Gianna could still be alive for a completely different reason. There could of been complications with the abortion that worked in her favor, and she's been fighting cerebral palsy so that could be out of her own free will rather than God's doings, etc. It all comes down to a belief. If you say that you see God working through her, you're implying that God is real. But if you THINK you see God, then you're implying that God is potentially real, but you don't know for sure. And whether it comes to a religious belief or nonreligious belief, we never really know for sure!

   
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Re: Gianna Jessen - October 1st 2010, 05:17 PM

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A fetus is not a baby, just like an embryo is not a fetus. It's a developing baby, but not a baby. And I never mentioned anything about pain. I wasn't arguing that fetuses experience pain when given abortions -- I'd imagine so after they formed enough to develop nerves and shit. What I was saying was that she can't remember what it's like to be aborted. She has to go by what other people say and what the documents say to be able to say that she was supposed to die from the abortion. Even if you went through pain, you still wouldn't be able to remember.
Just because the baby won't remember it, doesn't mean it's an okay thing to do.

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And you just completely contradicted yourself. "Only God knows for absolute sure" but it's obvious for YOU to see God working through people's lives. So by your logic, in order for that to be a true statement, is that you are God. And you can't say that you could be God because that goes against Christian teachings. So that doesn't really work. Are you God, or are you a Christian who believes you can see God working through people's lives? Because Gianna could still be alive for a completely different reason. There could of been complications with the abortion that worked in her favor, and she's been fighting cerebral palsy so that could be out of her own free will rather than God's doings, etc. It all comes down to a belief. If you say that you see God working through her, you're implying that God is real. But if you THINK you see God, then you're implying that God is potentially real, but you don't know for sure. And whether it comes to a religious belief or nonreligious belief, we never really know for sure!
There has to be an explanation for her perseverance and all that. Plus, she does mention God quite a few times. No I am not God lol. I believe that I can see God working through people's lives.
God IS real.
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Re: Gianna Jessen - October 4th 2010, 04:44 PM

So because she survived an abortion it must mean it was because of an act of some one God like? Many people in assorted medical fields could also give possible reasons as to how she survived.
   
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Re: Gianna Jessen - October 4th 2010, 05:34 PM

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Originally Posted by Strawberries View Post
Just because the baby won't remember it, doesn't mean it's an okay thing to do.


No, but fetuses are better off being killed than children. Fetuses might experience pain, but they don't really know what's happening. Children, on the other hand, can think logically and not only experience pain, but KNOW why they're experiencing pain.



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Originally Posted by Strawberries View Post
There has to be an explanation for her perseverance and all that. Plus, she does mention God quite a few times. No I am not God lol. I believe that I can see God working through people's lives.
God IS real.
To you, He is real.
   
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Re: Gianna Jessen - October 5th 2010, 03:36 AM

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No, but fetuses are better off being killed than children. Fetuses might experience pain, but they don't really know what's happening. Children, on the other hand, can think logically and not only experience pain, but KNOW why they're experiencing pain.
Not every child who wasn't aborted would wind up being killed.
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Re: Gianna Jessen - October 5th 2010, 03:36 AM

I've heard of her in the past, and I think she is absolutely amazing. I, too, am pro-life and she is such an example of Jesus Christ to me, although a lot of people are.


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Re: Gianna Jessen - October 5th 2010, 02:14 PM

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I think it is wrong to disregard life simply because the person can't function by themselves.

[/color][/font]
And I think it's wrong to force your beliefs onto others(especially when it will greatly affect their life), but that's what all pro-lifers are doing. Besides, it's not as if the fact that the fetus can't function by itself is the only reason I think people should be allowed to have abortions. The big reason is that it's not a person, it can't think or feel, and it's a potential life, not an existing life. Also, I believe people should be able to make their own decisions about whether or not abortions are okay. That is why I think they should be allowed.


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Re: Gianna Jessen - October 5th 2010, 05:07 PM

Just gonna leave this here...
forums/f38-current-events-debates/att1107-differentscenario-jpg
   
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Re: Gianna Jessen - October 6th 2010, 02:16 PM

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Just gonna leave this here...
Attachment 1107
Right because women who have abortions are never harassed by people who are pro life. It's not as if they get called sick, horrible, disgusting people right after they've had a medical procedure that was likely very difficult emotionally.


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Re: Gianna Jessen - October 6th 2010, 04:05 PM

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Right because women who have abortions are never harassed by people who are pro life. It's not as if they get called sick, horrible, disgusting people right after they've had a medical procedure that was likely very difficult emotionally.
Men who decide not to be parents get the same treatment. Next question please.
   
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Re: Gianna Jessen - October 6th 2010, 10:10 PM

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Men who decide not to be parents get the same treatment. Next question please.
No they don't. Not all men are treated like they are wrong for not taking care of a child. The children/mother might hate them, for sure, but society in general just shrugs it's shoulders. It's more socially acceptable for a man not to be a father than it is for a woman to have an abortion.

It was an interesting video, the parts I actually watched. So she survived, okay fine. But that doesn't mean making abortion illegal will save lives. It will destroy them. I think she was saying that it was her's God's will, and that was pretty annoying actually. Sure, maybe it's because of your God that you are alive, or you can look at the million of medical reasons for why you are alive.


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Re: Gianna Jessen - October 6th 2010, 10:41 PM

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No they don't. Not all men are treated like they are wrong for not taking care of a child. The children/mother might hate them, for sure, but society in general just shrugs it's shoulders. It's more socially acceptable for a man not to be a father than it is for a woman to have an abortion.
That sentence is almost as ridiculous as saying 'men don't get raped'. The problem most men face with pregnancy in their partner is that they generally don't get the choice. Its up to the mother to decide whether neither of them are parents, or they both are.
   
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Re: Gianna Jessen - October 6th 2010, 11:00 PM

I'm not against God or people loving Christ or anything, but why does everyone always have to drag him into everything? Sure, it's a miracle that she survived. But what does it have to do with God? There's probably something scientific that went wrong during the abortion process. Why is it automatically God's doing? All these people eventually go on to be strong believers and everything, but I don't understand what it even has to do with Christ.


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Re: Gianna Jessen - October 6th 2010, 11:06 PM

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I'm not against God or people loving Christ or anything, but why does everyone always have to drag him into everything? Sure, it's a miracle that she survived. But what does it have to do with God? There's probably something scientific that went wrong during the abortion process. Why is it automatically God's doing? All these people eventually go on to be strong believers and everything, but I don't understand what it even has to do with Christ.
Because if anything is very unlikely, and then it happens, then JESUS DID IT. PRAISE THE LAWD.

lulz, nah a lot of religious people think God is responsible for the good things that happen in this world. I disagree, but some people see it that way.
   
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Re: Gianna Jessen - October 7th 2010, 12:29 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey
No they don't. Not all men are treated like they are wrong for not taking care of a child. The children/mother might hate them, for sure, but society in general just shrugs it's shoulders. It's more socially acceptable for a man not to be a father than it is for a woman to have an abortion.
They don't have to be directly treated wrong to be treated wrong. Why is it socially acceptable for a man not to be a father than a woman not be a mother? Because people got the wrong idea that "oh, it's cool. He's a man. They're afraid of responsibility and they're cowards. It's no big deal. The mother is the only responsible parent in the family anyways." Some women comment on single men with kids saying that they "feel bad" for him. It's like the whole deal with male nurses. When people expect a female nurse, they get pissed off and are like..."uh...this is 2010. Get with the times, betch." So because we got this over-generalization of men being fat slobs who spread their legs, scratch their balls, and check women out as they walk by and have no desire to be responsible parents and will leave their family being of an expecting child, women are also over-generalized too. They're the responsible parent...c'mon, it's immoral for a mother to kill her own child! How do you live with yourself?! YOU MONSTER! But just imagine if it was socially acceptable for a woman to have abortions. I can picture it now...

"Hey girl. How you doin?"
"I'm havin' an abortion. You know that guy Ricky? He got me pregnant."
"Girl, I knew something was wrong with that man. You need to get that abortion A.S.A.P. You don't want that thang cookin' in the oven too long."
"Girl, you is so right. I'm gonna get that abortion tamarro"
"Yeah I heard that"

Such a beautiful thought.
   
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Re: Gianna Jessen - October 7th 2010, 04:54 PM

Quote:

*The heart starts beating between 18 and 25 days.
*Electrical brainwaves have been recorded at 43 days on an EEG.
*The brain and all body systems are present by 8 weeks and functioning a month later.
*At 8 weeks, the baby will wake and sleep, make a fist, suck his thumb, and get hiccups.
*At the end of 9 weeks, the baby has his own unique finger prints.
*At 11-12 weeks, the baby is sensative to heat, touch, light and noise. All body systems are working. He weighs about 28g and is 6-7.5 cm long.
The issue with those facts that heart beat does not mean life, in fact the definition of death is technically brain-dead and not without a heart-beat in today's society. Also, there are several different brain waves. I haven't been able to find the actual source that says what kind of brain waves were recorded. 8 weeks, sucking thumb is a reflex and not all body systems are working at 11-12 weeks otherwise why is there a huge concern about the aveoli collapsing?

She has emotional appeal, but she does not address any other issues. It's nice that she has found happiness through God, but I don't believe people should try to force religion down people's throats. Focusing purely on God as reasons why to not have abortions doesn't change my mind because I am an atheist. I would give her props if she addressed the other issues of why women get abortions, but it does look like there are a bunch of religious leaders in the room judging so those issues probably do not appeal to them. (It's easy to preach to the choir).

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Re: Gianna Jessen - October 8th 2010, 03:54 PM

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That sentence is almost as ridiculous as saying 'men don't get raped'. The problem most men face with pregnancy in their partner is that they generally don't get the choice. Its up to the mother to decide whether neither of them are parents, or they both are.
So you're saying that men are animals with no control over their instincts? That's a little offensive to men. Men do have a choice in becoming parents: it's called not having sex. Men always seem to tell women that our bodies are different and we just suck it up that we have female problems. So guess what, our bodies are different and you get the short end of the stick this time. So yeah, the only way for men to not become parents is to not have sex. Women, however, can control what is happening in their bodies. So suck it up and don't have sex with women you don't trust. It's not rocket science, people.


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Re: Gianna Jessen - October 8th 2010, 05:26 PM

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So you're saying that men are animals with no control over their instincts? That's a little offensive to men. Men do have a choice in becoming parents: it's called not having sex. Men always seem to tell women that our bodies are different and we just suck it up that we have female problems. So guess what, our bodies are different and you get the short end of the stick this time. So yeah, the only way for men to not become parents is to not have sex. Women, however, can control what is happening in their bodies. So suck it up and don't have sex with women you don't trust. It's not rocket science, people.
Women have abortion, men have nothing. That's why I hope a 'male abortion' option gets passed. Essentially allowing the father to forfeit any legal or financial responsibility in the same time-limit as the mother has for abortion. Problem with your idea is, you're essentially asking every person on the planet to be an ideal perfect non-cheating person. Which is riduculous. If you honestly expect men in this world to not have sex if they aren't prepared for child, and women too, then you're living on mars. Sorry, that's the truth.
   
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Re: Gianna Jessen - October 9th 2010, 09:34 PM

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Women have abortion, men have nothing. That's why I hope a 'male abortion' option gets passed. Essentially allowing the father to forfeit any legal or financial responsibility in the same time-limit as the mother has for abortion. Problem with your idea is, you're essentially asking every person on the planet to be an ideal perfect non-cheating person. Which is riduculous. If you honestly expect men in this world to not have sex if they aren't prepared for child, and women too, then you're living on mars. Sorry, that's the truth.
I don't expect them not to have sex. I'm saying that they have to live with the consequences which could be a child. That sucks, but you have to face reality. I'm also saying that you made the decision to have sex, you get the consequences. I don't really care if you end up with a kid or not. Look up the psychological term "invincibility fable".

Though, I wouldn't be completely opposed to the limited time male "abortion".


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