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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
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McDonald's Won't Pay Hospital Bills of Hero Employee - February 20th 2009, 03:11 AM

http://www.newser.com/story/51290/mc...-employee.html

Quote:
(Newser) It doesn't pay to be a hero, sometimes. A McDonald's employee who stepped in to prevent a man from beating up a woman in the restaurant got shot multiple times and ended up with $300,000 in medical bills. Now McDonald's says it's won't pay up because his injuries "did not arise out of or within the course and scope of his employment," the Arkansas Times reports.
Nigel Haskett, 22, has filed a workers' comp complaint. His lawyer says McDonald's is apparently sticking by company policy that it lays out for workers: Don't be hero, call 911. But even the judge handling the trial of Haskett's assailant singled him out in court. "Here is this young man working for minimum wage, coming to the aid of a woman," he said, before donating $100 to a fund set up on Haskett's behalf.
Should they pay for his hospital bill? I honestly think that they should, because he was hurt at work and he did save the person, but I am also torn. They have that policy for a reason and if it is a policy then he should have obeyed it.


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  (#2 (permalink)) Old
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Re: McDonald's Won't Pay Hospital Bills of Hero Employee - February 20th 2009, 03:32 AM

Hmm.. I'm torn too. I mean.. a policy is there for a reason and they can't just.. change it for one person. But by the time the police would have arrived it probably would have been too late.


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  (#3 (permalink)) Old
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Re: McDonald's Won't Pay Hospital Bills of Hero Employee - February 20th 2009, 03:37 AM

There is a policy for a reason but really, is $300,000 really that much to a multi billion dollar entity like McDonald's? If I were them I'd refuse to pay it at first to get publicity and then graciously fold and pay it anyway to look good.
   
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Re: McDonald's Won't Pay Hospital Bills of Hero Employee - February 20th 2009, 03:41 AM

Thats why I stand by my belief (I work in retail right now) that ALL employees should have access to a tazer gun near work stations.
Every register should have a tazer gun next to it under the counter.


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Re: McDonald's Won't Pay Hospital Bills of Hero Employee - February 20th 2009, 03:43 AM

That's why you don't play officer if someone is geting attacked do nothing till police arive or risk the injury/death.


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Re: McDonald's Won't Pay Hospital Bills of Hero Employee - February 20th 2009, 03:57 AM

Isn't worker's compensation meant for employees who are injured while performing duties outlined in their jobs? As in things they are hired to do? Sure it was a very good thing to do, but it's not like MacDonalds was asking him to perform dangerous tasks. I think companies should be forced to pay for medical bills when they are responsible for the injury.


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Re: McDonald's Won't Pay Hospital Bills of Hero Employee - February 20th 2009, 04:14 AM

It isn't in the job description to save innocent customers (as far as I know, lol.) But it certainly is heroic. It probably would have been too late if he had called 911 and waited, so it was the right call to make. But legally, it was kind of stupid.

If I was the McDonald's exec taking care of this case, I'd classify paying off his hospital bills as a "McDonald's Award of Heroism" or a "Donation Fund for Heroes."

But then again, McDonald's execs probably don't think that way. They think, "Oh, the law protects us, so it's cool!"


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Re: McDonald's Won't Pay Hospital Bills of Hero Employee - February 20th 2009, 04:31 AM

It's the policy. The "heroism" of it doesn't change it. They shouldn't have to pay.


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Re: McDonald's Won't Pay Hospital Bills of Hero Employee - February 20th 2009, 04:47 AM

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Originally Posted by Alex View Post
It's the policy. The "heroism" of it doesn't change it. They shouldn't have to pay.
I don't think they should have to. But they're a multi-billion dollar corporation and an employee earning minimum wage got hurt on the job. If he had not been working there, the person who was originally attacked might not have survived.

They can spare $300,000, whereas the employee probably doesn't even know where his next electric bill is coming from.

All I'm saying is that it might restore my faith in humanity a tiny bit, and it would be good marketing for them, too. More people would go to McDonald's because America loves a hero, and by extension anyone who supports a hero.


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Re: McDonald's Won't Pay Hospital Bills of Hero Employee - February 20th 2009, 07:21 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitten View Post
Thats why I stand by my belief (I work in retail right now) that ALL employees should have access to a tazer gun near work stations.
Every register should have a tazer gun next to it under the counter.
But that'd open the public up to incredible risk. Employees do not have the training to use it and there would be mistakes, even if they got the training (which I doubt any company would want to give them due to the legal risk) then it's still risky as they are not crime fighting proffessionals and I can just see the headline "Shop assistant Tazers teenager for reaching for his wallet too quickly" appearing frequently.

Not to mention that it would be easy for criminals to turn back on the shop by either reaching across and grabbing it when the shop assistant isn't prepared or by overpowering the assistant.
   
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Re: McDonald's Won't Pay Hospital Bills of Hero Employee - February 20th 2009, 07:40 AM

Legally, they shouldn't need to pay as what he did was not in the scope of employment. However, I assume it would show other current or future workers or customers, that McDonalds have a lack of caring for their employees, so it may look bad (if employees aren't cared for, what about the food?). $300k for McDonald's would be next to nothing to pay.
   
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Re: McDonald's Won't Pay Hospital Bills of Hero Employee - February 20th 2009, 09:17 AM

Hi Amanda Kate!!!

I hope you're having a super fine day.

Whenever I'm not quite sure how I feel about something - I try to look at it from a different perspective. Just how much would it cost McDonald's if the following happened.....

Quote:
(Newser) A man beats up a woman in a McDonald's restaurant while employee's stood by and did nothing. The man then shot the woman multiple times. She survived - but is now faced with up to $300,000 in medical bills. McDonald's says it's won't pay for her medical bills because her injuries "were not directly or indirectly caused by the restaurant or its employees." the Arkansas Times reports.
Nancy Haskett, 22, has hired a lawyer and plans to sue McDonald's and it's employees for failing to come to her aid. McDonald's is apparently sticking by company policy that says: Don't help any customer in need. Call 911.
I say - McDonald's should PAY. An employee is a member of a company. Besides - given the alternative [As I saw it - in the quote above] McDonald's would have to pay a LOT more if the woman was shot. In fact - they may end up paying a lot more anyways. Not too many juries are going to find against a man who tried to save the life of a woman.

That said... many years ago - before it was common for people to have cell phones - a baby was having a severe seizure in the arms of her mother while waiting in line to buy something at a Sears department store. The mother frantically asked the cashier if she could use the phone. The cashier refused - stating that it was against Sears policy to allow customers to use their phones. The cashier held fast and true to that policy in spite of the fact that the baby was turning blue and there were no signs of it still breathing. Eventually - another customer simply walked around - pushing the cashier aside - and phoned 911. The baby survived - and Sears was left with egg on their face. They publicly apologized and made it clear that the policy does NOT forbade customers from using their phones in an emergency.

Emergency situations [Like the one that took place in that McDonald's ] often push aside rules and policies. Did you know that it is NOT illegal to break into someone's house for the sole purpose of using the PHONE IF there is an emergency?!

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Re: McDonald's Won't Pay Hospital Bills of Hero Employee - February 20th 2009, 10:10 AM

It's a fair bit of a conundrum; neither the guy, nor the company are really responsible for what happened, so it seems unreasonable that either of them should have to pay. Certainly the guy shouldn't pay; that's a slap in the face of everything good and kind. At the same time, while it might be pocket change to the company, they're still no more responsible for what happened than the other customers in the restaurant. Ideally the shooter would be the one footing the bill, but I somehow doubt a McGunner is going to have $300,000 to cough up, no matter how vigorously you shake him upside down.

Which bring me to my inevitably smug point: public health care is a much better system then private; in Canada, this wouldn't have been an issue at all. So here's hoping Obama can finally get government-funded health care instated some time in his reign.


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Re: McDonald's Won't Pay Hospital Bills of Hero Employee - February 20th 2009, 10:31 AM

They should reach a comprimise he pays half they pay half.
   
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Re: McDonald's Won't Pay Hospital Bills of Hero Employee - February 20th 2009, 11:21 AM

they don't have to legally, they have themselves covered and for no reason should they pay. he should've called the police

that being said i do feel sorry for the guy and it would be lovly if maccas did help him out
   
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Re: McDonald's Won't Pay Hospital Bills of Hero Employee - February 20th 2009, 12:02 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack View Post
There is a policy for a reason but really, is $300,000 really that much to a multi billion dollar entity like McDonald's? If I were them I'd refuse to pay it at first to get publicity and then graciously fold and pay it anyway to look good.
This would be the most sensible course of action to take, it will make them look decent and get them publicity
   
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Re: McDonald's Won't Pay Hospital Bills of Hero Employee - February 20th 2009, 01:31 PM

Paying for that man's hospital bill could be the least they could do after he saved them a liability and funeral bill...


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Re: McDonald's Won't Pay Hospital Bills of Hero Employee - February 20th 2009, 03:03 PM

That's rather pathetic that a multi-billion dollar conglomorate refuses to pay the bills of an employee who saved a life while at work. McDonald's is going to get so much crap for this.


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Re: McDonald's Won't Pay Hospital Bills of Hero Employee - February 20th 2009, 04:03 PM

Well to be honest think of the alternative, he could of stood there, watched this woman get beat up or worse killed.
It dosen't really matter it was against the policy, they should pay the bill, he risked his life for someone elses, he's a hero.


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Re: McDonald's Won't Pay Hospital Bills of Hero Employee - February 20th 2009, 04:20 PM

I don't think the company should have to pay. It sucks.


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Re: McDonald's Won't Pay Hospital Bills of Hero Employee - February 20th 2009, 06:00 PM

They have the policy for a reason. It's to protect their staff, and other people. Staff are not trained to deal with these sorts of situations, and there's a high chance they can make things worse by interferring. It's to discourage staff from doing something stupid. It's a smart legal thing to do as well.

Basically, if they pay out, they are saying the policy doesn't matter. So they need to work out if they want to keep the policy or get rid of it, before they can pay. If they pay, they effectively have to get rid of it... it's not just an issue of $30000.
   
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Re: McDonald's Won't Pay Hospital Bills of Hero Employee - February 20th 2009, 06:06 PM

Legally, they're not obligated really obligated to pay... but someone when someone does something good (such as saving a woman's life) is it fair for them to be in debt for it? He works a minimum wage job, it'll take him forever to pay that, even if by some chance he got a raise... I really think they should at least pay off some of it, $300,000 is pocket change for a chain as big as MacDonald's.



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Re: McDonald's Won't Pay Hospital Bills of Hero Employee - February 20th 2009, 06:28 PM

I can see reasons why they wouldn't have to pay.

It was the employee's choice to get involved. McDonalds did not tell him to do it...He was acting on his own accord, and the event in itself did not involve McDonalds in any way...Except that they happened to fight in one. The situation would be the same if it had happened on the street.

Yeah, it would be nice for McDonald's to pay, but they have no LEGAL right to.
   
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Re: McDonald's Won't Pay Hospital Bills of Hero Employee - February 20th 2009, 06:31 PM

if they pay, they have to ditch the policy.
   
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Re: McDonald's Won't Pay Hospital Bills of Hero Employee - February 20th 2009, 06:39 PM

I agree with what McDonalds did, even though my first reaction was "they should pay!".

Policy is policy and while he did help someone out, it really wasn't his place. If they pay for him, they'll end up having to cover every employee from here on out. Perhaps they can help him out in another manner, although I have a feeling many of his coworkers have probably stepped in somehow. =]
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Re: McDonald's Won't Pay Hospital Bills of Hero Employee - February 20th 2009, 06:49 PM

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Policy is policy and while he did help someone out, it really wasn't his place.

What kind of world would we be living in if we didn't help people because it wasn't our place? =/



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Re: McDonald's Won't Pay Hospital Bills of Hero Employee - February 20th 2009, 07:00 PM

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Originally Posted by WhySoSerious? View Post
What kind of world would we be living in if we didn't help people because it wasn't our place? =/
Believe it or not, McDonald's policy is there to protect its employees. The average cashier at McDonald's is in no way trained to deal with these situations, as this man proved. Sure we'd all like to help in horrible situations, but the fact is that if you don't have the proper training, you usually only end up making things worse for everyone. If he had been shot in McDonald's parking lot, would McDonald's also be morally obligated to pay for that? How about on the street outside McDonalds? A block away? If McDonald's pays for the man's medical bills, they are more or less doing away with their policy and saying to their employees "Sure, do extremely dangerous things while you're at work. Put your lives at risk. We don't care, we'll just pay you off later."


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Re: McDonald's Won't Pay Hospital Bills of Hero Employee - February 20th 2009, 07:00 PM

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Originally Posted by WhySoSerious? View Post
What kind of world would we be living in if we didn't help people because it wasn't our place? =/
In my opinion, I believe what he did was right.

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Re: McDonald's Won't Pay Hospital Bills of Hero Employee - February 20th 2009, 07:06 PM

Is this a franchise or a corporate McDonald's?


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Re: McDonald's Won't Pay Hospital Bills of Hero Employee - February 20th 2009, 08:03 PM

It was great of the guy to do... but he did make a choice? I don't know how I feel about this.



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Re: McDonald's Won't Pay Hospital Bills of Hero Employee - February 20th 2009, 08:09 PM

Its like the lottery there are risk involved.


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Re: McDonald's Won't Pay Hospital Bills of Hero Employee - February 20th 2009, 10:47 PM

They should pay for the bills.

I know someone who here who broke up a fight, 13, working at McDonalds, broke up a fight and got stabbed and beat up and he got some serious problems and they wouldn't pay for a damn thing. They fired him for "Being involved in in-direct violence on the job".



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Re: McDonald's Won't Pay Hospital Bills of Hero Employee - February 21st 2009, 02:47 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadaCraig View Post
Hi Amanda Kate!!!

I hope you're having a super fine day.

Whenever I'm not quite sure how I feel about something - I try to look at it from a different perspective. Just how much would it cost McDonald's if the following happened.....

I say - McDonald's should PAY. An employee is a member of a company. Besides - given the alternative [As I saw it - in the quote above] McDonald's would have to pay a LOT more if the woman was shot. In fact - they may end up paying a lot more anyways. Not too many juries are going to find against a man who tried to save the life of a woman.

That said... many years ago - before it was common for people to have cell phones - a baby was having a severe seizure in the arms of her mother while waiting in line to buy something at a Sears department store. The mother frantically asked the cashier if she could use the phone. The cashier refused - stating that it was against Sears policy to allow customers to use their phones. The cashier held fast and true to that policy in spite of the fact that the baby was turning blue and there were no signs of it still breathing. Eventually - another customer simply walked around - pushing the cashier aside - and phoned 911. The baby survived - and Sears was left with egg on their face. They publicly apologized and made it clear that the policy does NOT forbade customers from using their phones in an emergency.

Emergency situations [Like the one that took place in that McDonald's ] often push aside rules and policies. Did you know that it is NOT illegal to break into someone's house for the sole purpose of using the PHONE IF there is an emergency?!

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As nice as that story was Craig, they are two different companies, two different policies. You're comparing watermelons and bananas, apples and oranges, choose whatever metaphor you like. So.. they should pay because they're lucky they wouldn't have to pay more? Legally, they shouldn't and that reasoning you gave, not only does it not makes sense, it would go against their policy. Also, your example is different in that the woman was trying to use the phone, whereas in the actual McDonald's case, nobody was trying to get the phone; the person was trying to stop an attack and not use the telephone, two completely seperate events, different laws apply, different policies apply. Your example doesn't fit and the little tidbit of the law, as interesting as it is, doesn't apply either, as that is for someone's home, not for McDonald's. You're tossing around random examples where different policies apply and random laws that aren't applicable to the given event.

Had you gotten examples at McDonald's, where the same or very similar incident happened, and McDonald's did pay, then it would be applicable: same place, same policies, same (or at minimum, very similar event), same outcome yet McDonald's did pay. That would be applicable. The random little law involving homes still would have no use in here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmisschatterbox
They should reach a comprimise he pays half they pay half.
So McDonald's would still have to pay, which makes no sense. I don't see the logic in this at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessie
It was great of the guy to do... but he did make a choice? I don't know how I feel about this.
Yes, he made a choice: he helped the person. So, what is your stand on it considering he did make a choice. Then again, so did the assailant and McDonald's, they both made choices; the assailant attack, and McDonald's made a choice in setting their policies and adhering to them. The other employees made a choice about not interfering. So... what is your stand considering everyone made a choice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brendanmoline
They should pay for the bills.

I know someone who here who broke up a fight, 13, working at McDonalds, broke up a fight and got stabbed and beat up and he got some serious problems and they wouldn't pay for a damn thing. They fired him for "Being involved in in-direct violence on the job".
McDonald's adhered to their policies here and now. So what is your reason for them to pay? To get back at McDonald's for firing the person?

You know, it's kind of interesting. McDonald's gets their employees to sign their name when they apply, indicating that they adhere to their policies. When they did their heroic acts, they violated those policies, and now, the people who got their policies violated should pay? That's exactly what is happening here. Had McDonald's had some control over getting the assailant to attack their employees, then that would be different but they had no control. So I don't see why they should pay. The employees violated the policies, it makes sense that they should pay. The assailant would also have to pay if they got sued by either McDonald's or the attacked employee.

If you say that they should pay, then you're saying if someone signs a contract where they agree to the company's policies, and said employee violates some of the policies, the company should pay the employee if the reason was completely out of the company's control, and not part of the job requirement. If you disagree with this, then you've just contradicted yourself.
   
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Re: McDonald's Won't Pay Hospital Bills of Hero Employee - February 21st 2009, 05:21 AM

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Originally Posted by brendanmonline View Post
They should pay for the bills.

I know someone who here who broke up a fight, 13, working at McDonalds, broke up a fight and got stabbed and beat up and he got some serious problems and they wouldn't pay for a damn thing. They fired him for "Being involved in in-direct violence on the job".
It's very sad that he was stabbed and beat up, but that's just another example showng that average civilians are in no way able to deal with crisis situations. McDonald's should not be obligated to pay the bills of an employee who was doing something that McDonald's forbid him to do.


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Re: McDonald's Won't Pay Hospital Bills of Hero Employee - February 21st 2009, 05:32 AM

Here's a funny idea.... how about the guy who hurt him pays?

And people wonder why people don't want to help others in dangerous situations.
   
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Re: McDonald's Won't Pay Hospital Bills of Hero Employee - February 21st 2009, 06:15 AM

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Originally Posted by Lee View Post
Here's a funny idea.... how about the guy who hurt him pays?

And people wonder why people don't want to help others in dangerous situations.
That funny idea would work if the guy sues the attacker, in which case, I think the attacker would lose and have to pay.

Yeah, good old bystander effect.
   
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Re: McDonald's Won't Pay Hospital Bills of Hero Employee - February 21st 2009, 01:12 PM

If Mcdonalds were to pay out for his hospital bills then they would be legally open for any employee injured by any person or circumstance on their grounds to claim from them. Now 300,000 might not be a lot to the corporation now, but if every employee injured by unforeseen circumstances started to claim the cost would go up. No business would be stupid enough to make themselves liable for that.
The ones here are thinking like business are guided by morals, but don't think about the wide effects that liability can give.
Perhaps they could donate to the fund that is being set up, that way they wouldnt be legally entitled to, and even so should we be at the discretion of teh executives.
It is also suggesting that McDonalds endorses vigilanteism and putting yourself in dangerous situations. like erm this guy? what good did he do? he ended up getting shot?! was that a great improvement of the situation? Would it of been much better if they had called 911 and allowed trained persons to deal with it.
theres a fine line between matrydom and suicide.... ugh the audacity of this man annoys me. he should be suing teh assailant, but the probability is that he hasnt enough money. I wouldn't give him a penny if it was me

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Re: McDonald's Won't Pay Hospital Bills of Hero Employee - February 21st 2009, 11:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadeOfSolitude View Post
If Mcdonalds were to pay out for his hospital bills then they would be legally open for any employee injured by any person or circumstance on their grounds to claim from them. Now 300,000 might not be a lot to the corporation now, but if every employee injured by unforeseen circumstances started to claim the cost would go up. No business would be stupid enough to make themselves liable for that.
The ones here are thinking like business are guided by morals, but don't think about the wide effects that liability can give.
Perhaps they could donate to the fund that is being set up, that way they wouldnt be legally entitled to, and even so should we be at the discretion of teh executives.
It is also suggesting that McDonalds endorses vigilanteism and putting yourself in dangerous situations. like erm this guy? what good did he do? he ended up getting shot?! was that a great improvement of the situation? Would it of been much better if they had called 911 and allowed trained persons to deal with it.
theres a fine line between matrydom and suicide.... ugh the audacity of this man annoys me. he should be suing teh assailant, but the probability is that he hasnt enough money. I wouldn't give him a penny if it was me

*puts scrooge hat on*
This.

I agree, it's run on policies nor on morality. And he should sue the assailant as he would win in that case (unless there's some amazing defence from the assailant).

McDonald's could, or their employees could donate to the fund. That would be fine.
   
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Re: McDonald's Won't Pay Hospital Bills of Hero Employee - February 22nd 2009, 12:25 AM

I bet a lot of the community especially the original victim's family would be willing to help out with a donation thing for him. I think that's the best they can do at this point, hopefully someone will set one up.


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Re: McDonald's Won't Pay Hospital Bills of Hero Employee - February 22nd 2009, 01:29 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scout View Post
I bet a lot of the community especially the original victim's family would be willing to help out with a donation thing for him. I think that's the best they can do at this point, hopefully someone will set one up.
"But even the judge handling the trial of Haskett's assailant singled him out in court. "Here is this young man working for minimum wage, coming to the aid of a woman," he said, before donating $100 to a fund set up on Haskett's behalf."

One is already set up...
   
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