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"To fat to drive a bus" - October 13th 2010, 07:46 PM

http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/bl...e-a.6579444.jp
I am very divided in my opinion on this. I'm not honestly sure what to think


   
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Re: "To fat to drive a bus" - October 13th 2010, 08:51 PM

I would never have thought there was such a thing as being "too fat" to drive a vehicle weighing at least 8 tonnes. My view would be that as long as you can physically fit behind the wheel and control the vehicle then you're fine, but obviously someone in Blackpool has different criteria...

If they're having health problems as a result of their weight which impact upon their fitness to drive then that's different, but basing it just on weight alone is just daft.


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Re: "To fat to drive a bus" - October 14th 2010, 05:29 AM

I must say that article doesnt give much information. How overweight were these guys? Did they just look flabby? Or was their weight actually affecting their job? If the weight is affecting their job then well it makes sense, but if they just look a bit fat, that is discrimination.
   
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Re: "To fat to drive a bus" - October 14th 2010, 06:00 AM

This article give alittle more information on this topic.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1913...drive-bus.html
She didn't work for the company what happened is that she submitted an application to work at this bus company and she received a rejection letter saying 'If, however, you should wish to reduce your weight and contact us within the next six months we will be glad to consider you further'.”
I think the company does have a right not to hire her because of her weight, overweight people have a higher rate of heart attacks than regular people and she is going to have all the lives of the people riding in the bus.


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Re: "To fat to drive a bus" - October 14th 2010, 10:33 AM

Being fat is unhealthy so any one should be able to fire/reject someone from a job based on this. It isn't discrimination being fat it a personal choice in most cases.
   
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Re: "To fat to drive a bus" - October 14th 2010, 10:58 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3.14159265358979323846264 View Post
Being fat is unhealthy so any one should be able to fire/reject someone from a job based on this. It isn't discrimination being fat it a personal choice in most cases.
There are other life choices that are unhealthy too, such as smoking and drinking alcohol. Would it be fair to fire/reject someone who smokes or drinks in their own time?
   
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Re: "To fat to drive a bus" - October 14th 2010, 11:42 AM

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Originally Posted by Stephanie View Post

There are other life choices that are unhealthy too, such as smoking and drinking alcohol. Would it be fair to fire/reject someone who smokes or drinks in their own time?
Smoking, yes, drinking? Only if excessive.
   
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Re: "To fat to drive a bus" - October 14th 2010, 06:53 PM

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Originally Posted by 3.14159265358979323846264 View Post
Being fat is unhealthy so any one should be able to fire/reject someone from a job based on this. It isn't discrimination being fat it a personal choice in most cases.
Firing someone based solely on their weight would fall within the category of unfair dismissal, as it is dismissal based solely on physical criteria and not the person's ability to carry out their duties. Same goes for drinking and smoking. If the requirements of the job demand peak physical fitness then rejection would be acceptable but again doing so solely based on weight as in this case is, as far as I know, in breach of legislation. BMI in particular is a particularly ineffective means of determining someone's health, and if they wished to play that particular card they should carry out full medicals - which they won't simply because it's too expensive and excessive for the demands of the job.

I wouldn't rate the company's chances before an employment tribunal on this one, I'll put it that way.


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Re: "To fat to drive a bus" - October 14th 2010, 09:48 PM

Well if she was too fat to properly move the wheel then I think it's perfectly fair not to hire her. I mean I wouldn't want to get on a bus where the driver wouldn't be able to be in complete control of the wheel. It's a public safety issue.


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Re: "To fat to drive a bus" - October 14th 2010, 10:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3.14159265358979323846264 View Post
Being fat is unhealthy so any one should be able to fire/reject someone from a job based on this. It isn't discrimination being fat it a personal choice in most cases.
No but to reject someone based on their weight just because they want to is not fair. If it is going to put them in danger (for example on some roller coaster ride and the buckle doesnt fit) well then fair enough but just because they look big, its kinda rude if you ask me. They say not to bully fat people, well to me, rejecting them based on how they look is bullying.
   
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Re: "To fat to drive a bus" - October 14th 2010, 11:25 PM

Bus drivers are incredible drivers. If being overweight reduces their driving effectiveness, they'd be putting people more at risk. Buses aren't no [Edit] vehicles with brembo brakes...it's like driving a turbo'd tank.

Last edited by Casey.; October 20th 2010 at 07:25 PM. Reason: Removing weight numbers
   
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Re: "To fat to drive a bus" - October 15th 2010, 04:11 AM

I think the whole thing sounds a bit strange. I mean, they've said "lose weight or we'll dock your pay". If they were really worried about people's safety, wouldn't they say "lose weight or you can't work for us anymore"? If this was honesty about safety, they wouldn't allow them to keep working for the company just with less pay. It sounds like this is all about discrimination and not about "safety regulations".



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Re: "To fat to drive a bus" - October 15th 2010, 04:27 AM

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Originally Posted by ShimmeringFaerie View Post
I think the whole thing sounds a bit strange. I mean, they've said "lose weight or we'll dock your pay". If they were really worried about people's safety, wouldn't they say "lose weight or you can't work for us anymore"? If this was honesty about safety, they wouldn't allow them to keep working for the company just with less pay. It sounds like this is all about discrimination and not about "safety regulations".
According to THIS that Andrea (Mexico) posted in this thread, she was denied the job because of her weight.
She wasn't currently working there.
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Re: "To fat to drive a bus" - October 15th 2010, 04:29 AM

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Originally Posted by Strawberries View Post


According to THIS that Andrea (Mexico) posted in this thread, she was denied the job because of her weight.
She wasn't currently working there.
I don't think that article is about the same incident. The article Andrea posted is from 2008, but the original one is from a few days ago...



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Re: "To fat to drive a bus" - October 15th 2010, 05:54 AM

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Originally Posted by ShimmeringFaerie View Post


I don't think that article is about the same incident. The article Andrea posted is from 2008, but the original one is from a few days ago...
Oh okay. I read the first article and that does seem like discrimination.
And I read the number of pounds and it's really not a lot at all.
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Re: "To fat to drive a bus" - October 15th 2010, 05:57 AM

I guess they use BMI as an estimate of the bus driver's health but it's kind of silly because they do lots of sitting for most of their work, so it's natural that they'll gain weight. It wouldn't have inhibited her driving at her weight. If anything, I'd suspect her height would not her weight.

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Originally Posted by Strawberries View Post


According to THIS that Andrea (Mexico) posted in this thread, she was denied the job because of her weight.
She wasn't currently working there.
Actually, she wasn't denied it because of her weight. She was denied it because her BMI was over [Edit] and BMI is not based solely on weight but also height. Given her height of 4'11, if she was her same weight but 5'2, her BMI would not be over [edit] and she would not be fired. Since TH gets all pissy if people post weight numbers, her weight can be seen here on the link (her height of 4'11 is 59 inches). http://bmi.emedtv.com/bmi/bmi-chart-for-women.html


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Last edited by Casey.; October 20th 2010 at 07:28 PM. Reason: BMI numbers are also against the TOS
   
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Re: "To fat to drive a bus" - October 15th 2010, 06:03 AM

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Originally Posted by WOW!USaidSomethingSmart! View Post
Actually, she wasn't denied it because of her weight. She was denied it because her BMI was over 33 and BMI is not based solely on weight but also height. Given her height of 4'11, if she was her same weight but 5'2, her BMI would not be over 33 and she would not be fired. Since TH gets all pissy if people post weight numbers, her weight can be seen here on the link (her height of 4'11 is 59 inches). http://bmi.emedtv.com/bmi/bmi-chart-for-women.html
Weight and BMI do go together. To calculate a BMI, you have to type in weight.
If she was 5'2, she would most likely weigh more.
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Re: "To fat to drive a bus" - October 15th 2010, 08:13 AM

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Originally Posted by WOW!USaidSomethingSmart! View Post
Actually, she wasn't denied it because of her weight. She was denied it because her BMI was over [edit] and BMI is not based solely on weight but also height.
Are you serious lol? BMI has nothing what-so-ever to do with height. I mean yes you type your height in but it is used to see if you are the right weight for your height. If you are taller, then your BMI should be no higher.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WOW!USaidSomethingSmart! View Post
Given her height of 4'11, if she was her same weight but 5'2, her BMI would not be over [edit] and she would not be fired.
LOL I actually laughed when I read this!!!
Thats like an overweight person saying "oh its okay because if I was 7 inches taller i'd be classified as underweight, so its my height that is the problem" No no no you have that very wrong!
A smaller person should have a lesser weight that a taller person, which is why height is used in BMI...this is so hard to explain as I cant post a good example because of no weight numbers.
The only reason BMI is unreliable is that it does not take into account muscle.

Last edited by Casey.; October 20th 2010 at 07:31 PM. Reason: Removing BMI
   
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Re: "To fat to drive a bus" - October 15th 2010, 08:40 AM

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Are you serious lol? BMI has nothing what-so-ever to do with height. I mean yes you type your height in but it is used to see if you are the right weight for your height. If you are taller, then your BMI should be no higher.


BMI is calculated by height and your weight. You can't have one without the other. The shorter you are and the higher weight you are, the larger your BMI is going to be. Not convinced? Go here: http://www.nhlbisupport.com/bmi/

Fool around with the numbers. Input random numbers for height and weight and you can bet your ass you're going to see different numbers. There is no argument.



Quote:
Originally Posted by emma01 View Post

LOL I actually laughed when I read this!!!
Thats like an overweight person saying "oh its okay because if I was 7 inches taller i'd be classified as underweight, so its my height that is the problem" No no no you have that very wrong!
A smaller person should have a lesser weight that a taller person, which is why height is used in BMI...this is so hard to explain as I cant post a good example because of no weight numbers.
The only reason BMI is unreliable is that it does not take into account muscle.
He's not saying that you can change your height like you can change your weight. He's saying that if the person was 7 feet taller and the same weight, they'd be classified differently. Hypothetically speaking. Just saying that weight and height go hand in hand. Or at least that's what I'm making of it.
   
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Re: "To fat to drive a bus" - October 15th 2010, 09:12 AM

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Originally Posted by Brandon View Post


BMI is calculated by height and your weight. You can't have one without the other. The shorter you are and the higher weight you are, the larger your BMI is going to be. Not convinced? Go here: http://www.nhlbisupport.com/bmi/

Fool around with the numbers. Input random numbers for height and weight and you can bet your ass you're going to see different numbers. There is no argument.


He's not saying that you can change your height like you can change your weight. He's saying that if the person was 7 feet taller and the same weight, they'd be classified differently. Hypothetically speaking. Just saying that weight and height go hand in hand. Or at least that's what I'm making of it.
I know exactly what BMI is, I happen to know alot about that, and I get mine thrust in my face every month. And yes it is calculated by height and weight...but it doesnt tell you what height you should be to fit your weight, it tells you what weight you should be for your height! And OMG! Of course if a person was a different height they'd be classified differently! Duh, that is the point of short people weighing less. Do you honestly think a good excuse is to say "If I was taller I wouldn't be classified as overweight" - Because that is not right. If someone was X lbs and 5'3 and had a BMI of [edited], and another was the same weight but 5'6 they would have a lower BMI...but take that 5'3 person, and add on 3 inches but keep their 'fat content' the same, their BMI would naturally be larger because taller people are meant to weigh more. Get me?

Last edited by Casey.; October 20th 2010 at 07:35 PM. Reason: Please do not post weight figures of any form, as they are against the TOS.
   
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Re: "To fat to drive a bus" - October 15th 2010, 09:43 AM

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Originally Posted by Strawberries View Post

Oh okay. I read the first article and that does seem like discrimination.
And I read the number of pounds and it's really not a lot at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShimmeringFaerie View Post

I don't think that article is about the same incident. The article Andrea posted is from 2008, but the original one is from a few days ago...
Oh god I just ready the date on the top of the site not the other one sorry people.


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Re: "To fat to drive a bus" - October 15th 2010, 10:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strawberries

Weight and BMI do go together. To calculate a BMI, you have to type in weight.
Didn't I say that already?

"BMI is not based solely on weight but also height."

Yes I did. Are you making a point or did you not fully read what I posted?

Quote:
Originally Posted by emma01 View Post

Are you serious lol? BMI has nothing what-so-ever to do with height. I mean yes you type your height in but it is used to see if you are the right weight for your height. If you are taller, then your BMI should be no higher.
I don't get what you're saying. First you say height is not used in BMI, then you said it is used.

Quote:
Originally Posted by emma01 View Post
LOL I actually laughed when I read this!!!
Thats like an overweight person saying "oh its okay because if I was 7 inches taller i'd be classified as underweight, so its my height that is the problem" No no no you have that very wrong!
It wasn't meant to be a justification for being overweight. I'm pretty sure I made that rather obvious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by emma01 View Post
I know exactly what BMI is, I happen to know alot about that, and I get mine thrust in my face every month. And yes it is calculated by height and weight...but it doesnt tell you what height you should be to fit your weight, it tells you what weight you should be for your height! And OMG! Of course if a person was a different height they'd be classified differently!
I'm confused, we're saying the same thing, only it appears you seem to be under the impression I implied BMI is used to change height. I said that if she was taller but weighed the same, the BMI would be different and the point of saying this obvious fact was to show that it is silly for the lady to get booted due to her BMI. At least, I think we're agreeing on this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by emma01
If someone was X lbs and 5'3 and had a BMI of [Edited], and another was the same weight but 5'6 they would have a lower BMI...but take that 5'3 person, and add on 3 inches but keep their 'fat content' the same, their BMI would naturally be larger because taller people are meant to weigh more. Get me?
Your explanation is, as far as I can tell, redundant. If I'm understanding you, you've said if someone is 5'3 and x pounds, they have a BMI of (random BMI number) but if they're 5'6 and x pounds, they have a BMI of [edited]. But then you say add on 3 inches to the 5'3 person so they're now 5'6 and their BMI is now back to [Edited]. I'm not sure if you're trying to say something that I'm not getting or if you're just being redundant.


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Last edited by Casey.; October 20th 2010 at 07:37 PM. Reason: Please do not post BMI numbers, they are also against the TOS.
   
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Re: "To fat to drive a bus" - October 15th 2010, 04:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by WOW!USaidSomethingSmart! View Post
Didn't I say that already?

"BMI is not based solely on weight but also height."

Yes I did. Are you making a point or did you not fully read what I posted?
Quote:
Actually, she wasn't denied it because of her weight.
That is what you put. My point is she WAS denied because of her weight as well. If she had weighed less, her BMI would have been less.

The ladies in the article that this thread is actually about got their pay docked because of their weight.
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Re: "To fat to drive a bus" - October 15th 2010, 08:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by WOW!USaidSomethingSmart! View Post

I don't get what you're saying. First you say height is not used in BMI, then you said it is used.

Your explanation is, as far as I can tell, redundant. If I'm understanding you, you've said if someone is 5'3 and x pounds, they have a BMI of (random BMI number) but if they're 5'6 and x pounds, they have a BMI of [Edit]. But then you say add on 3 inches to the 5'3 person so they're now 5'6 and their BMI is now back to [Edit]. I'm not sure if you're trying to say something that I'm not getting or if you're just being redundant.
Okay what I mean is BMI basically tells you whether you are the right weight for your height...so yes you type in your height to determine what weight you should be, but if you get two people, one 5'3 and one 5'6 who LOOK the same, their BMI will be the same.
Now in that second bit I realise I made an error. I said that if someone was 3 inches taller but had the same "fat content" as in they looked the same, their BMI would be larger, well I mean to say the taller one would weigh more, but the BMI would be the same. Sorry I am getting so confused here and im just messing my words up, but that wasmy error and I apologise.

Last edited by Casey.; October 20th 2010 at 07:41 PM.
   
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Re: "To fat to drive a bus" - October 16th 2010, 07:01 AM

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That is what you put. My point is she WAS denied because of her weight as well. If she had weighed less, her BMI would have been less.
I'm glad you pasted something else I said but did you fail to read the very next sentence?

"Actually, she wasn't denied it because of her weight. She was denied it because her BMI was over [Edit] and BMI is not based solely on weight but also height. "

Read the article. It says if the employee has a BMI of over [Edit], they are not allowed to work. Therefore, it was the combination of her height and her weight (thus her BMI) that prevented her from working. I'm aware the ladies mentioned their weight because they cant change their height, only their weight. So why should they bother about mentioning their height? It'd only be a concern if they were too short but since they were working there, they obviously weren't. Which is more feasible to change: height or weight? Answer is weight. What is confusing about this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by emma01 View Post

Okay what I mean is BMI basically tells you whether you are the right weight for your height...so yes you type in your height to determine what weight you should be, but if you get two people, one 5'3 and one 5'6 who LOOK the same, their BMI will be the same.
"Looks" aren't reliable. They can "look" the same and have the same waist circumference yet may not weigh the same. "Looks" are meaningless, it's the weight that's important. Measuring "fat content" cant be done by simply "looks" either.



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Last edited by Casey.; October 20th 2010 at 07:46 PM. Reason: Removing BMI numbers.
   
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Re: "To fat to drive a bus" - October 16th 2010, 07:29 AM

I really don't see why people are arguing over bmi to be honest, it involves both weight AND height, the equation used to work it out is weight/height^2 so yeah -_-
It's also irrelevant what people of the same weight and different height would be, after all, you're supposed to eat for your own height and a 5'5'' person isn't supposed to eat for someone who has a height of 7'. Seriously, this is one of the most stupid arguments I've ever seen on TH -_-
   
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Re: "To fat to drive a bus" - October 16th 2010, 08:01 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3.14159265358979323846264 View Post
I really don't see why people are arguing over bmi to be honest, it involves both weight AND height, the equation used to work it out is weight/height^2 so yeah -_-
It is one the stupidest arguments because those that said BMI involves weight and height are arguing against that.


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Re: "To fat to drive a bus" - October 16th 2010, 08:59 AM

I don't see how fat a person would influence a job unless her physical condition actually limits her ability to perform her duty in a safe and efficient manner i.e. if she can't fit in the seat and therefore unable to operate the wheel, or step on the pedals, or chances of heart attack during driving etc.

Then again, media tends to blow things out of proportion.


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Re: "To fat to drive a bus" - October 17th 2010, 07:15 PM

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Originally Posted by WOW!USaidSomethingSmart! View Post
"Looks" aren't reliable. They can "look" the same and have the same waist circumference yet may not weigh the same. "Looks" are meaningless, it's the weight that's important. Measuring "fat content" cant be done by simply "looks" either.

I dont mean look like that, I was trying to give an example of two people with the same BMI...who are different heights, but since this is a stupid argument ill stop here.
   
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Re: "To fat to drive a bus" - October 20th 2010, 02:13 PM

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Originally Posted by México View Post
overweight people have a higher rate of heart attacks than regular people and she is going to have all the lives of the people riding in the bus.
This is why I think that it's fair for the company to do this.
   
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