Should a man ever hit a woman?

[Cosmo]

Originally Posted by Casey.

As a means of self-defense? Sure. I've got in plenty of tuffles to defend myself. But should anyone, regardless of gender, hit someone for the hell of it? Well, it depends. Playfully, sure. I have friends who punch each other for fun and friends who hit each other to get their point across, but they don't actually hurt each other. Otherwise, no. Violence isn't really the answer. For anyone.

I actually said two different scenarios to discuss in the first post haha
People seem to be ignoring it though

[sturmeskind]

One: The man was attacked without provokation.
Two: The man provoked the attack.

Okay, depends on how you define attack, but let's assume it's physical. Regardless of gender or sex, if you are physically attacked, run away. If you can't, defend yourself with suitable force.
If you provoke an attack you have to deal with it, but that doesn't mean you can't retaliate (sp?). Fights happen and they might not always be without reason.
Generally, don't hit people without good reason. Adapt the force you use to the physical constitution of your opponent and the situation (a full blown kick in the family jewels/stomach where a slap would suffice is a bad idea. Don't slap the person trying to rape you, punch his or her guts instead and get away) . If you beat someone to pulp, don't be surprised to get stuck with a subsequent lawsuit.
I'm very much annoyed at the double standard in this issue, but hey, I'm a feminist, and frankly I think the phrase "my mummy told me not to hit women/girls" patronising and taunting.
I'm a woman and not all that tall, but I've trained in martial marts for over six years. I could hurt people a lot, if I needed to, and I demand to be treated according to that. I'm also rather gentle in character and actually abhor any kind of violence, but if I had no choice, well...

[kiwi_fish_bunny]

Just to throw another point out there.

If its like a street fight you have the right to defend your self if that means hitting a woman then sure, cos there and some bloody butch woman out there who could easily beat some males.

If its abuse (like in families/relationships ect etc) then no matter what sex the abuser is its sick and wrong. As it destroys lifes, in all aspectects of wellbeing (Physical, mental/emotional, spritual, and social).

[Neoscryer]

Originally Posted by ThePunkAlien

slap from a girl is like a rubber band snap (no experience), but a punch from a guy would probably hurt them a lot more than that.

A rubber band slap? Are you serious?

My 10 year old cousin can slap a LOT harder than a rubber band slap, and she's just a kid. Any able-bodied adult woman can hit well enough to cause some serious damage .. if she's taught to punch right.

[Cosmo]

Originally Posted by sturmeskind

I'm very much annoyed at the double standard in this issue, but hey, I'm a feminist, and frankly I think the phrase "my mummy told me not to hit women/girls" patronising and taunting.
I'm a woman and not all that tall, but I've trained in martial marts for over six years. I could hurt people a lot, if I needed to, and I demand to be treated according to that. I'm also rather gentle in character and actually abhor any kind of violence, but if I had no choice, well...

Finally a feminist who agrees that there's a double standard! Most of the ones I know think it's perfectly okay.
And yes you should be treated according to your strength, not Gender.

[mIssIng:nO]

Originally Posted by sturmeskind

One: The man was attacked without provokation.
Two: The man provoked the attack.

Okay, depends on how you define attack, but let's assume it's physical. Regardless of gender or sex, if you are physically attacked, run away. If you can't, defend yourself with suitable force.
If you provoke an attack you have to deal with it, but that doesn't mean you can't retaliate (sp?). Fights happen and they might not always be without reason.
Generally, don't hit people without good reason. Adapt the force you use to the physical constitution of your opponent and the situation (a full blown kick in the family jewels/stomach where a slap would suffice is a bad idea. Don't slap the person trying to rape you, punch his or her guts instead and get away) . If you beat someone to pulp, don't be surprised to get stuck with a subsequent lawsuit.
I'm very much annoyed at the double standard in this issue, but hey, I'm a feminist, and frankly I think the phrase "my mummy told me not to hit women/girls" patronising and taunting.
I'm a woman and not all that tall, but I've trained in martial marts for over six years. I could hurt people a lot, if I needed to, and I demand to be treated according to that. I'm also rather gentle in character and actually abhor any kind of violence, but if I had no choice, well...

Umm, what? Turning your back to run away is probably the worst idea you can do in most situations, you do realize most people can chase you right? If your in a violent situation and need to get away, NEVER turn your back, keep your hands infront of your neck/face and walk slowly backwards.

Martial Arts are actually very impractical in a street fight situation, unless you take something thats mainly designed for self defense (i,e judo) you don't have much of an advantage, most people i know who are ranked high enough to actually have skill in their art, admit its really not practical to use in a street fight situation. Sure its good to know how to "fight", but most people on train and leave it at that, if you fight competativley, than its different, but if all you did was learn in a gym and never actually had to use it, chances are you won't have any idea what to do if a situation arises.

Not saying anything agaisn't you, but I get really sick of people assuming they're safe because they've trained a bit of "martial arts".

[AmazonQueen]

Originally Posted by Kyeto-X

I personally will never raise my hand towards someone I love out of anger.

I HAVE raised my hand out of self defense. I mainly use reversals, grapples, and feints. And I always exhaust all peaceable negotiations before i get violent. If I can talk you down, I will. IF you will not be talked down, and you start Violence, I will defend myself and my family.

If it is my wife who is about ready to wail on me, I can easily restrain her and pin her until she calms down. If i get angry at her, I walk away. I do NOT have the right to take my anger out on her. She is there to help support me, love me, and to process my emotions and my situation. If I need a punching bag, there is a pillow in the bedroom that needs fluffed and a level of Halo to beat on Legendary.

But again, to say that a man should NEVER hit a woman is foolish. If you threaten me or my family with physical harm, I don't care if you are the Virgin Mary, I will take you out. IF someone, ANYone is willing to deal out pain, they better be prepared to receive some pain.

lol i must say i agree with you here, if anyone is willing to dish out the pain they better be ready to receive it. in a serious situation i do not think a man nor a woman should hit each other for any reason at all with the exception of self defense. but as you said i would never raise my hand to someone i love. especially not my boyfriend. on another not i think that rule is kinda BS just because we have boobs does not give us anymore right to slap you in the face than you have to punch our lights out. seriously, but i come a broken home and i've seen alot of fights when my mom took me away to calgary my older cousin he always raised his hand to me and my cousins which we are all girls. that being said i also LOVE to play fight with my friends and most of them are guys it kinda pisses me off when they wont hit me back lol...i also come from mma where half the people i train with are men so it really depends on the situation but there is no reason to harm loved ones only to defend

Originally Posted by Matthew

Finally a feminist who agrees that there's a double standard! Most of the ones I know think it's perfectly okay.
And yes you should be treated according to your strength, not Gender.

i also agree here, as i said already i come from being in mma, i'm currently a kick boxer but will be picking up on mauy thai and jujistsu and i'd really appreciate being treated to my strength as well...it pisses me off when my friends won't spar with me because i am a girl...

Originally Posted by Neoscryer

A rubber band slap? Are you serious?

My 10 year old cousin can slap a LOT harder than a rubber band slap, and she's just a kid. Any able-bodied adult woman can hit well enough to cause some serious damage .. if she's taught to punch right.

again (sorry for the triple posts i dont know how to multi quote)
im a 15 year old girl the men i spar with and train with are 30 and they are alot more experianced and a few hits i've landed almost got some black eyes and bloody noses

[eunoia]

I don't believe a man should off and deck a woman in the face, but it's a two way street. If a woman is beating on a man then I wouldn't blame him for doing what was necessary to stop her. The bottom line is that there is absolutely no reason any person should simply accept abuse, regardless of gender relationships.

To more directly respond to the OP:

Originally Posted by Matthew

What do you think?

EDIT: I think a scenario might be useful to debate. Let's have two.

One: The man was attacked without provokation.
Two: The man provoked the attack.

One: I think my above response can most easily be applied here. If a man is attacked without provocation, I do believe he should defend himself.

Two: I think this depends on what you mean by "provoked". I would be equally horrified by "Mary Sue angered her husband, so she should allow him to hit her", and "John angered his wife, so he should allow her to hit him." Again, I am in full support of self-defense.

If the man hit the woman first, however, I think it would be difficult to justify continuing to hit her (and vice versa, really).

[sturmeskind]

Umm, what? Turning your back to run away is probably the worst idea you can do in most situations, you do realize most people can chase you right? If your in a violent situation and need to get away, NEVER turn your back, keep your hands infront of your neck/face and walk slowly backwards.

Martial Arts are actually very impractical in a street fight situation, unless you take something thats mainly designed for self defense (i,e judo) you don't have much of an advantage, most people i know who are ranked high enough to actually have skill in their art, admit its really not practical to use in a street fight situation. Sure its good to know how to "fight", but most people on train and leave it at that, if you fight competativley, than its different, but if all you did was learn in a gym and never actually had to use it, chances are you won't have any idea what to do if a situation arises.

Not saying anything agaisn't you, but I get really sick of people assuming they're safe because they've trained a bit of "martial arts".

Hi there. No offense taken. By "run away" I meant "make a lot of noise and try to get out of there without being hurt as fast as you can". Probably could have put that better... Thanks for clarifying.

I'm not saying I'm safe because I did some years of training in what was, when it comes down to it, a lot of gymnastics and jumping around shouting strange words. I'm saying I've got an advantage because a) I know where and how to hit to damage ( b) I'm not afraid to punch or kick with force (I've broken wood with my hands and feet...) and c) people see me and assume I can't defend myself. Well, I'm actually convinced I can (being sure of one self helps a big deal, too.) Judo is probably the most useless training ever, btw, when it comes to actually fighting, because you have to get so close to your opponent and the techniques are rather complicated... Just saying...

Finally a feminist who agrees that there's a double standard! Most of the ones I know think it's perfectly okay.
And yes you should be treated according to your strength, not Gender.

Er... you know strange feminists... are you sure it's not because of the average strength thing (even I have to admit that the *average* woman is weaker than the *average* man)? I mean... since Judith Butler most feminists are actually convinced that deconstructing gender roles is a good thing,

[BrookeTHaddict]

A man should never hit a woman out of self defence i think its ok depending on the woman if she cant cause you much harm push her away or restrain her and call the police if she is causing you alot of demage yer hitting out of self defence is ok but just one hit walk away and call the police

[Cosmo]

Originally Posted by BrookeTHaddict

A man should never hit a woman out of self defence i think its ok depending on the woman if she cant cause you much harm push her away or restrain her and call the police if she is causing you alot of demage yer hitting out of self defence is ok but just one hit walk away and call the police

A man should never hit a woman out of self-defense?

...
...
...

[mIssIng:nO]

Originally Posted by sturmeskind

Hi there. No offense taken. By "run away" I meant "make a lot of noise and try to get out of there without being hurt as fast as you can". Probably could have put that better... Thanks for clarifying.

I'm not saying I'm safe because I did some years of training in what was, when it comes down to it, a lot of gymnastics and jumping around shouting strange words. I'm saying I've got an advantage because a) I know where and how to hit to damage ( b) I'm not afraid to punch or kick with force (I've broken wood with my hands and feet...) and c) people see me and assume I can't defend myself. Well, I'm actually convinced I can (being sure of one self helps a big deal, too.) Judo is probably the most useless training ever, btw, when it comes to actually fighting, because you have to get so close to your opponent and the techniques are rather complicated... Just saying...


Er... you know strange feminists... are you sure it's not because of the average strength thing (even I have to admit that the *average* woman is weaker than the *average* man)? I mean... since Judith Butler most feminists are actually convinced that deconstructing gender roles is a good thing,

You have no idea what your talking about lol, sorry but you just lost all credibilty, when it comes to anything to due with Martial Arts/ self defense.

You ever seen a street fight? what happens in a street fight? 9/10 times, some form of grabbing of clothing is done, most people don't stand back and box it out, its often very in close and wrestling. Thats where judo comes into play, no matter how strong/big/ good at fighting you are, if you grab a judoka's shirt any of his clothing, you have literally no chance of leaving the fight the winner. I'm a boxer (dirty boxing, but still), dirty boxing is one of the best ways to defend your self, and i'll admit myself that ANYONE who knows what they're doing in judo, I would stand no chance against. Hell, even if they have a weapon, judo is based almost entirely aruond self defense, how does what you said make sense? it doesn't, thats how.

The tehcniques are difficult? its called training, clearly something you don't actually do, it takes time to get good at something, and to be honest, i'm alot more worried about getting a bone snapped or choked out, than being stabbed.

P.S Being able to break wood isn't really all that impressive.

sorry, but once again, you have no idea what your talking about.

[TheBabyEater]

I absolutely LOVE how this thread seems to assume all men are stronger than most women. Such as the comments of "A man should never HIT a woman, but use other means of self defense" insinuating to me anyway, that women cannot take a hit, but a man could. Or the comments like "depending on the woman" at least shows maybe some can take it, but 'obviously' a man is usually stronger than the woman.

I'm sorry, but the world is conditioned to be sexist. Just saying
I'm rather a small kid, short and quiet (when I feel like it) But trust me, I know I can take a hit better than at least quite a few larger women. Then again, perhaps that just has to do with how much one is used to it.

So lets be a little more specific, just to see what you guys will say. Small or average man, aggressive muscular woman. But a man should STILL never hit a woman? Sure scientifically men are more likely to naturally have more muscle mass and whatnot, but that doesn't mean girls can fight. -.- Just saying. But, I'm hardly paying attention so perhaps this doesn't make any sense at all.

[lovelife608]

Only if its self-defense.

[Cosmo]

Originally Posted by TheBabyEater

I absolutely LOVE how this thread seems to assume all men are stronger than most women. Such as the comments of "A man should never HIT a woman, but use other means of self defense" insinuating to me anyway, that women cannot take a hit, but a man could. Or the comments like "depending on the woman" at least shows maybe some can take it, but 'obviously' a man is usually stronger than the woman.

I'm sorry, but the world is conditioned to be sexist. Just saying
I'm rather a small kid, short and quiet (when I feel like it) But trust me, I know I can take a hit better than at least quite a few larger women. Then again, perhaps that just has to do with how much one is used to it.

So lets be a little more specific, just to see what you guys will say. Small or average man, aggressive muscular woman. But a man should STILL never hit a woman? Sure scientifically men are more likely to naturally have more muscle mass and whatnot, but that doesn't mean girls can fight. -.- Just saying. But, I'm hardly paying attention so perhaps this doesn't make any sense at all.

I agree with what you're saying. You're basically saying that it should be decided based on their actual physical strength, not on their gender, correct?

Also, I'd just like to point out that if you took two people, a man and a woman, and gave them the same amount of exercise/diet etc. the man would probably be stronger. That's just biology. However, it's only an average, and there are lots of women who are stronger than men. For example, I'm absolutely tiny. 5ft4 at 14 and I'm pretty sure a lot of girls my age could beat me up if they should so wish.

[MrPresidentObama]

No. And girls shouldn't hit guys; biggest double standard ever right there

[Cosmo]

Guys, please stop with the unrealistic pacifism. Do you think a man is justified in retaliating against a woman?

Please don't respond with "Oh well he shouldn't hit her, she shouldn't hit him. We should all run around the flowerbeds and sing and dance and ride unicorns." It doesn't really answer the question, and in an actual situation, it's not going to help you at all. You aren't really going to stand there and say "Oh well I don't believe in violence.".

Sorry if it sounded harsh but I think we need people to properly understand the question..

[OMFG!You'reActuallySmart!]

Originally Posted by BrookeTHaddict

A man should never hit a woman out of self defence i think its ok depending on the woman if she cant cause you much harm push her away or restrain her and call the police if she is causing you alot of demage yer hitting out of self defence is ok but just one hit walk away and call the police

So a man cannot defend himself if a woman attacks him? Are you serious or did you mis-type? Let's think of a situation where this is stupid: a small weak, timid, untrained man getting attacked by a big, well-trained strong female. According to you, the shrimpy man should not fight back even though the woman is easily using him as a punching bag. If the shrimpy man were attacking the woman though, the woman should beat him something fierce. Make any sense in the real world?

One hit and walk away isn't often going to work, at least not in the world we live in. If someone is hitting you, one hit works if you knock them out or hit in a certain area or with enough force to damage them so they are unable to get up or fearful to get up. Assuming most people cannot get this one hit off, how do you expect them to call the police while they're still being beaten? Curl up, run away, act like a complete lunatic running around screaming, yelling as loud as possible, etc...? Those may work after you've taken several other hits.

Originally Posted by sturmeskind

I'm not saying I'm safe because I did some years of training in what was, when it comes down to it, a lot of gymnastics and jumping around shouting strange words. I'm saying I've got an advantage because a) I know where and how to hit to damage ( b) I'm not afraid to punch or kick with force (I've broken wood with my hands and feet...) and c) people see me and assume I can't defend myself. Well, I'm actually convinced I can (being sure of one self helps a big deal, too.) Judo is probably the most useless training ever, btw, when it comes to actually fighting, because you have to get so close to your opponent and the techniques are rather complicated... Just saying...

Breaking boards of wood is meaningless. All it proves is you have some strength in your hits, not that you know how to use any of them. As said in one of Bruce Lee's movies where I believe it was Chuck Norris he was going to fight, and Chuck tosses up a board and breaks it in mid-air, Lee says "boards don't hit back". It's nice for show but it doesn't mean much of anything to me. Breaking a single board with a kick isn't something impressive to me.

Judo is quite useful if you know how to use it and you don't need the opponent to be wearing a gi for all the throws. For some, tweaking it a bit means the opponent's punching arm gets snapped and you can do whatever else. Some moves you even see done very often in MMA even if the person doesn't know much judo and wears only trunks. Some moves are difficult but that's why you train so they don't become difficult. If you think about it, doing an axe kick can be difficult but if you train, you become flexible enough, proper balance, proper strength and enough speed so it lands.

[MrPresidentObama]

Originally Posted by Matthew

Guys, please stop with the unrealistic pacifism. Do you think a man is justified in retaliating against a woman?

Please don't respond with "Oh well he shouldn't hit her, she shouldn't hit him. We should all run around the flowerbeds and sing and dance and ride unicorns." It doesn't really answer the question, and in an actual situation, it's not going to help you at all. You aren't really going to stand there and say "Oh well I don't believe in violence.".

Sorry if it sounded harsh but I think we need people to properly understand the question..

Alright, if we're gonna be like this. Should a man ever retalliate to an abusive woman by attacking back?

No. If he truly felt it nessecary to take action, he should report it to the police. Nobody ever says "Oh you got raped? Well go rape him back, unless you are some kind of pussy pascifist", so why would somebody say "Oh she hit you? Well go beat her back you pussy"

[Pink Ranger]

The way I see it, an attack on you is an attack on your life. No matter the gender, no matter what specifics set you apart from the other person, if their intent is to hurt me, I would personally fight back. I don't care.

[Speechless]

Originally Posted by ~CourageousSurvivor~

I think if a man is being hit by a woman he has the right to defend himself. I think the person defending themself should only use as much force as necessary. Hopefully they can restrain them in a way that makes it impossible for them to continue hurting them without doing a lot of damage.

I don't think anyone should be hitting anyone but in the end if someone is really wailing on another person that person should have the right to protect themselves. I mean, when someone is mad (man or woman) they can cause a lot of damage and if a man is in fear for his life then he should be able to stop it.

I agree with Jenna.

I have seen for myself that women are just as capable of lashing out/being violent as men. Everybody should be able to defend themselves (with only the amount of force necessary) when they're being provoked.

I have seen (at school and stuff) girls hitting guys (whacking them on the head/slapping them across the back) "playfully" or "for fun" and while it looks extremely violent and painful at the time, the guy doesn't seem to mind. It really depends on the situation, I guess.

But if a person feels the need to defend themselves, man or woman, they have the right to do so with just the amount of force necessary. Going all out and beating them up out of anger would make you just as bad as they are?

[OMFG!You'reActuallySmart!]

Originally Posted by MrPresidentObama

Alright, if we're gonna be like this. Should a man ever retalliate to an abusive woman by attacking back?

No. If he truly felt it nessecary to take action, he should report it to the police. Nobody ever says "Oh you got raped? Well go rape him back, unless you are some kind of pussy pascifist", so why would somebody say "Oh she hit you? Well go beat her back you pussy"

The man should retaliate in order so he can experience less damage and can reach the phone easier. The rape analogy is one out of revenge, which isn't what this is about; it's about in the moment, should the man fight back to defend himself, not about attacking after the situation has been settled. Nothing in his post suggested he was being ridiculous and changing it to a different topic, he was getting it back on topic.

Originally Posted by Speechless

Going all out and beating them up out of anger would make you just as bad as they are?

I suppose it'd be assault on you (initially was attacked) and then assault on them because you defended yourself but continued to beat their asses. By "bad as they are", are you implying a legal, moral or other view?

[Vint Fall]

Originally Posted by Brandon

As a masculinist (is there such thing lol) I gotta say that video was hilarious, especially after the "you go girl" comment. I think this is part of the reason why there will never be true equality -- lack of statistical understanding.

i saw the video, too. the reactions are as expected. people just think that the guy is strong enough to defend himself while if it's a woman involved as victim, she needs help because she's weak. they observe the situation those seconds you call 'watching and walking away'. for a certain guy who's weak in a situation, still people going away, it's lack of understanding.

the video is kind of ridiculous though. i never would think such a thing would have happen. :/ they should have put a bigger actress than the man so the situation would look more real for people to help. the guy can always defend himself in a situation like this, because male people should be muscular out of many reasons.

[Marguerite]

I think we need to remember that retaliation is a lot different from self defense. If someone comes up and punches me in a bar then takes a step back, hitting him or her is not self defense (unless they're about to punch me again or something). Likewise, it's all about the amount of force used and injury caused. You can't just hit someone over the head with a crow bar because they kicked on in the shins and claim it was self defense.

Thirdly, if a person half your size punches you, punching them back is usually not going to be self defense. If you can easily restrain them or get away, but you choose to fight them instead, it's not self defense.

So yes, anyone should be able to use self defense against anyone, man or woman.

I'm not so above violence. Of course I'm against any kind of domestic violence or unprovoked attack, but if someone calls you a dick and decides to hit you in the head, I don't think it's really that bad to hit them back. I mean, stupid maybe, but I wouldn't consider it 'morally wrong'. I've been in a few fights myself. Something my mother always taught me though: Never ever get into a fight with anyone weaker than yourself.

The truth is that most of the time woman ARE weaker than men. You might not like it, but it's true. Does that mean all women are weaker? Of course not. I just don't think the average man should hit the average woman just as I don't think a 6 foot 5 guy should beat up a 5 foot 3 guy

[Brandon]

Originally Posted by Star's Heart*

i saw the video, too. the reactions are as expected. people just think that the guy is strong enough to defend himself while if it's a woman involved as victim, she needs help because she's weak. they observe the situation those seconds you call 'watching and walking away'. for a certain guy who's weak in a situation, still people going away, it's lack of understanding.

the video is kind of ridiculous though. i never would think such a thing would have happen. :/ they should have put a bigger actress than the man so the situation would look more real for people to help. the guy can always defend himself in a situation like this, because male people should be muscular out of many reasons.

But what do you think would happen if he defended himself? People were already assuming that the woman was hitting the man because he deserved it. If he started hitting back, how would people react then? They'd probably jump on her side and start punching him, or trying to break it up. Sure, the average guy can defend himself against the average woman, but it's different when you're in public. Unless the people obviously knew that the woman was being abusive, they'd still take the woman's side even if the man was actually defending himself. And to me, that's not right at all.

[Vint Fall]

Originally Posted by Brandon

But what do you think would happen if he defended himself? People were already assuming that the woman was hitting the man because he deserved it. If he started hitting back, how would people react then? They'd probably jump on her side and start punching him, or trying to break it up. Sure, the average guy can defend himself against the average woman, but it's different when you're in public. Unless the people obviously knew that the woman was being abusive, they'd still take the woman's side even if the man was actually defending himself. And to me, that's not right at all.

i think the point would be to stop the fight, not to return a punch back.

but since you're putting it that way, i'll agree. but that still doesn't make it any different. maybe if a guy passed, he would understand the guy that gets hit. people are too much sexist sometimes. (they also take things personally) they would still consider the guy guilty. i can't say more about the 'what would happen' since i never experienced a sight like that in public. in at least 90% cases, everything should be judged in the court with no exceptions, and should be judged fairly. can't expect that there, people would be acting as the regular ones you see on public everyday.

[Cosmo]

Originally Posted by Star's Heart*

i think the point would be to stop the fight, not to return a punch back.

but since you're putting it that way, i'll agree. but that still doesn't make it any different. maybe if a guy passed, he would understand the guy that gets hit. people are too much sexist sometimes. (they also take things personally) they would still consider the guy guilty. i can't say more about the 'what would happen' since i never experienced a sight like that in public. in at least 90% cases, everything should be judged in the court with no exceptions, and should be judged fairly. can't expect that there, people would be acting as the regular ones you see on public everyday.

Unfortunately the courts are just as biased and sexist as passers by.