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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
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Thumbs up Pro-life day (Silence against abortion) - October 19th 2010, 10:23 PM

Ok so this is something I just found out yesterday. Well the event is today. I'm not sure where I'd psot it, so thi'll probably get moved, but I just want to explain this thing thats going on today. Ok for all the info about it you can find at www.silentday.org , but as a summary, it's pretty much about taping over your mouth with red tape with the word "life" written on it, and remaining silent the entire day. I wish I knew about it ealier, cuz then i could said something earlier. But anyway I think it's pretty cool to show that your against abortion in this way. I love these sort of events, and I just wanted to share it with u guys. are any of you doing this, or have heard of this?


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  (#2 (permalink)) Old
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Re: Pro-life day (Silence against abortion) - October 19th 2010, 11:10 PM

I wasn't aware of it. I didn't see many people participating in my school. Hmm. I like that idea, though. I'm not pro-life, though. =D
   
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Re: Pro-life day (Silence against abortion) - October 19th 2010, 11:19 PM

I don't support their cause, but I think I like this style of protesting. This way I don't have to listen to them.

There is something similar for support for GLBT (did I mess up the letters?) and it is way more popular. The red tape has been around for a long time and Jesus Camp showed the young child with red tape over her mouth and I think life was written on it.
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Re: Pro-life day (Silence against abortion) - October 19th 2010, 11:49 PM

I think it's perfect, pro-lifers should keep their mouths shut anyway.

That was slightly rude but I'll explain. I think that everyone is entitled to their opinions, but the whole point of the pro-life argument is forcing those opinions on others. So I think this day would actually be better in support of the pro-choice side than the pro-life side.


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Re: Pro-life day (Silence against abortion) - October 20th 2010, 04:45 AM

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I don't support their cause, but I think I like this style of protesting. This way I don't have to listen to them.
.
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  (#6 (permalink)) Old
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Re: Pro-life day (Silence against abortion) - October 20th 2010, 05:17 AM

I always support a demonstration method that isn't "in-your-face" kind, or a harassing type. Good call.


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Re: Pro-life day (Silence against abortion) - October 20th 2010, 05:41 AM

I prefer rallies, marches, demonstrations, and heroic speeches.


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Re: Pro-life day (Silence against abortion) - October 20th 2010, 09:26 AM

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I don't support their cause, but I think I like this style of protesting. This way I don't have to listen to them.
Exactly. But yeah I like the idea and if it was for a cause I agreed with and liked I'd be up for doing it.


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Re: Pro-life day (Silence against abortion) - October 20th 2010, 04:59 PM

I think it's an amazing cause and day.


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  (#10 (permalink)) Old
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Re: Pro-life day (Silence against abortion) - October 20th 2010, 05:27 PM

I am prolife and i think its amazing thing.




   
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  (#11 (permalink)) Old
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Re: Pro-life day (Silence against abortion) - October 20th 2010, 06:17 PM

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Originally Posted by thebigmole View Post
I think it's perfect, pro-lifers should keep their mouths shut anyway.

That was slightly rude but I'll explain. I think that everyone is entitled to their opinions, but the whole point of the pro-life argument is forcing those opinions on others. So I think this day would actually be better in support of the pro-choice side than the pro-life side.
Harsh much? In my personal experience both sides are quite adept at the "forcing one's point of view down another's throat" thing so perhaps quite a few people could learn where the limit is.

I think as a form of protesting goes it's perfectly fair, and does make a valid point insomuch as the foetus is the only party involved which is physically incapable of speaking out. How much weight or bearing one places on that is down to the individual, but it's still a fair issue to bring up.


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If you're referring to dr2005's response, it's not complex, however, he has a way with words .
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Re: Pro-life day (Silence against abortion) - October 20th 2010, 06:21 PM

I wish I'd known about this earlier, because I'd deffinately have stayed silent for it. I don't think I'd go as far as the red tape - it'd probably be considered 'not school uniform'.


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Re: Pro-life day (Silence against abortion) - October 20th 2010, 08:05 PM

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In my personal experience both sides are quite adept at the "forcing one's point of view down another's throat" thing so perhaps quite a few people could learn where the limit is.
I'm pro-choice and, as far as I can tell, I don't force my point of view down anybody's throat. I see being pro-choice as choosing never to have an abortion myself as that is my choice; however, I wouldn't wish to deprive another woman of making her own decision.

Pro-life day sounded like a great idea and it didn't seem to be forcing a point of view. If someone has an opinion, surely they have every right to voice it as long as it's not offensive?




   
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Re: Pro-life day (Silence against abortion) - October 20th 2010, 09:24 PM

Yeah, I participated in that. It was really difficult to not speak the entire way, but it really made me think. Imagine what life would be like if you never existed? Or if your best friend had been aborted? I know without my best friend I would be living a miserable existence.


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Re: Pro-life day (Silence against abortion) - October 20th 2010, 09:27 PM

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Harsh much? In my personal experience both sides are quite adept at the "forcing one's point of view down another's throat" thing so perhaps quite a few people could learn where the limit is.

I think as a form of protesting goes it's perfectly fair, and does make a valid point insomuch as the foetus is the only party involved which is physically incapable of speaking out. How much weight or bearing one places on that is down to the individual, but it's still a fair issue to bring up.
Oh no that's not what I meant. Both sides are guilty of "forcing one's point of view down another's throat" it comes with being passionate about your opinion.

What I meant is that the whole point of pro-life is taking their opinions and inflicting them on everyone else's actions. Basically limiting other's actions based soley on their personal beliefs. Which is the exact opposite of the pro-choice side.


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Re: Pro-life day (Silence against abortion) - October 21st 2010, 04:38 AM

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Yeah, I participated in that. It was really difficult to not speak the entire way, but it really made me think. Imagine what life would be like if you never existed? Or if your best friend had been aborted? I know without my best friend I would be living a miserable existence.
But if your best friend was aborted...you would never have met her so to be honest you wouldn't be any different.
   
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Re: Pro-life day (Silence against abortion) - October 21st 2010, 07:17 AM

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Oh no that's not what I meant. Both sides are guilty of "forcing one's point of view down another's throat" it comes with being passionate about your opinion.

What I meant is that the whole point of pro-life is taking their opinions and inflicting them on everyone else's actions. Basically limiting other's actions based soley on their personal beliefs. Which is the exact opposite of the pro-choice side.
Pro-Choice is choosing to end someone's life, someone that can't even defend themselves, based on your personal belief that you don't want this child born. In both aspects you choose that you don't want someone to live, be it murder or abortion, so you kill them.


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Re: Pro-life day (Silence against abortion) - October 21st 2010, 12:10 PM

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Pro-Choice is choosing to end someone's life, someone that can't even defend themselves, based on your personal belief that you don't want this child born. In both aspects you choose that you don't want someone to live, be it murder or abortion, so you kill them.
That's not what pro-choice is at all. Pro-choice means allowing other women to choose whether they want to have abortions or not. Your definition sounds more like "pro-abortion".

I would never have an abortion (unless it was medically necessary). However, I am pro-choice. It's not my place to decide for another woman what happens to her body or her child. I don't know what has happened to her, I don't know how that child was conceived (if it was rape, a doctor's mistake, something else beyond her control). And I know this is going to sound sexist, but I think it's very easy for men to say that abortion is wrong when they can't get pregnant; a lot of them would think a lot differently if they were ever placed in that situation.


As for the method of protesting... I don't know. It just seems a bit too much like the "silent treatment" and therefore too much like emotional blackmail. But maybe that's just because I don't agree with the cause.



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Re: Pro-life day (Silence against abortion) - October 21st 2010, 01:13 PM

It's a better idea for a day than others I've seen
   
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Re: Pro-life day (Silence against abortion) - October 21st 2010, 01:50 PM

I don't like this day at all. Mostly because it gets so confused with the Day of Silence for LGBT people, when I hear Day of Silence I automatically think it's the one to "show" what people in the closet have to go through, or something like that. And the latter, I'd participate in that one. Pro-life? Not so much.



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Re: Pro-life day (Silence against abortion) - October 21st 2010, 05:46 PM

Does everyone here think abortion is that terrible?I mean I really don't know but I have to choose between that and other options right now


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Re: Pro-life day (Silence against abortion) - October 21st 2010, 06:04 PM

I would have participated if I had known about it.
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Re: Pro-life day (Silence against abortion) - October 21st 2010, 06:28 PM

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Does everyone here think abortion is that terrible?I mean I really don't know but I have to choose between that and other options right now
i dont im actually pro choice..
   
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Re: Pro-life day (Silence against abortion) - October 21st 2010, 07:43 PM

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That's not what pro-choice is at all. Pro-choice means allowing other women to choose whether they want to have abortions or not. Your definition sounds more like "pro-abortion".

I would never have an abortion (unless it was medically necessary). However, I am pro-choice. It's not my place to decide for another woman what happens to her body or her child. I don't know what has happened to her, I don't know how that child was conceived (if it was rape, a doctor's mistake, something else beyond her control). And I know this is going to sound sexist, but I think it's very easy for men to say that abortion is wrong when they can't get pregnant; a lot of them would think a lot differently if they were ever placed in that situation.
I agree with this all the way. Pro-choice is not pro-abortion.




   
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Re: Pro-life day (Silence against abortion) - October 21st 2010, 08:07 PM

My first thought was:

"Didn't LGBT do this first?

And my second was:

"Isn't the 'silence' thing much more appropriate for LGBT?"

Esme:

No, not everyone thinks abortion is terrible. Many that do will try to guilt you into thinking so as well, saying things like "abortion is murder," but a pithy argument doesn't make a correct argument. If you have to make a choice, research the topic and make your own decision; don't let others think for you.


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Re: Pro-life day (Silence against abortion) - October 21st 2010, 10:43 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShimmeringFaerie View Post


That's not what pro-choice is at all. Pro-choice means allowing other women to choose whether they want to have abortions or not. Your definition sounds more like "pro-abortion".

I would never have an abortion (unless it was medically necessary). However, I am pro-choice. It's not my place to decide for another woman what happens to her body or her child. I don't know what has happened to her, I don't know how that child was conceived (if it was rape, a doctor's mistake, something else beyond her control). And I know this is going to sound sexist, but I think it's very easy for men to say that abortion is wrong when they can't get pregnant; a lot of them would think a lot differently if they were ever placed in that situation.
Would you step in if a mother killed her child by stabbing it to death? That was her choice to end the life of her child.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShimmeringFaerie View Post

As for the method of protesting... I don't know. It just seems a bit too much like the "silent treatment" and therefore too much like emotional blackmail. But maybe that's just because I don't agree with the cause.
Gays do the exact same day like thing.


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Re: Pro-life day (Silence against abortion) - October 21st 2010, 11:04 PM

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Would you step in if a mother killed her child by stabbing it to death? That was her choice to end the life of her child.
See, there's a difference. Stabbing a child to death would be killing a person, whereas aborting a fetus would be preventing a potential life from beginning.

I'm not opposed to this, as people have the right to express their opinion. I don't see what it accomplishes though. It's not as if people don't already know about abortion. If I saw someone doing this though(or any form of pro-life protesting), I would ask them why they think they should have the right to decide what a woman does with her body.


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Re: Pro-life day (Silence against abortion) - October 22nd 2010, 12:55 AM

I firmly believe in a woman's right to choose, and I've greatly enjoyed my time as the secretary of a pro-choice club. I can't begin to express how against the pro-life movement I am. That said, a silent protest is certainly preferable to the sorts of antics my school's pro-life club likes to put on, like the Genocide Awareness Project.
   
  (#29 (permalink)) Old
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Re: Pro-life day (Silence against abortion) - October 22nd 2010, 01:17 AM

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See, there's a difference. Stabbing a child to death would be killing a person, whereas aborting a fetus would be preventing a potential life from beginning.

I'm not opposed to this, as people have the right to express their opinion. I don't see what it accomplishes though. It's not as if people don't already know about abortion. If I saw someone doing this though(or any form of pro-life protesting), I would ask them why they think they should have the right to decide what a woman does with her body.
The child is alive, IE the cells are actively replicating, the definition for basic life, as soon as the egg is fertilized, therefore it is killing a child.


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Re: Pro-life day (Silence against abortion) - October 22nd 2010, 01:21 AM

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The child is alive, IE the cells are actively replicating, the definition for basic life, as soon as the egg is fertilized, therefore it is killing a child.
Actually no, since a fetus is not a child. We do not equate our organs to a person, though they are alive and human. We should not equate a fetus to a person, even though they are alive and human. It's ending life yes, but not A life. There is a difference.


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Re: Pro-life day (Silence against abortion) - October 22nd 2010, 01:35 AM

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Originally Posted by thebigmole View Post
Actually no, since a fetus is not a child. We do not equate our organs to a person, though they are alive and human. We should not equate a fetus to a person, even though they are alive and human. It's ending life yes, but not A life. There is a difference.
If you demand complete rights to your body, then you have the responsibility to prevent a pregnancy you do not want through contraception, or by being abstinent. Also, many people who get abortions use public money, and it is immoral to go against what most people want in terms of the fact that the right to life is one of the basic universal human rights. Also, only 5% of abortions are preformed as a result of rape/incest, 95% are used as a method of birth control.


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Re: Pro-life day (Silence against abortion) - October 22nd 2010, 01:45 AM

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Originally Posted by Guile View Post
If you demand complete rights to your body, then you have the responsibility to prevent a pregnancy you do not want through contraception, or by being abstinent. Also, many people who get abortions use public money, and it is immoral to go against what most people want in terms of the fact that the right to life is one of the basic universal human rights. Also, only 5% of abortions are preformed as a result of rape/incest, 95% are used as a method of birth control.
What about the people who use contraception, but it failed? Failed vasectomies? People who were told they were unable to conceive? People who've not been appropriately informed about the risk of pregnancy?

Saying 95% of abortions are used as birth control is simply not true. You don't only get pregnant from rape or not bothering to use proper birth control. There are a whole range of other reasons and you are just ignoring them to distort the truth in your favour.



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Re: Pro-life day (Silence against abortion) - October 22nd 2010, 01:47 AM

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Originally Posted by Guile View Post
If you demand complete rights to your body, then you have the responsibility to prevent a pregnancy you do not want through contraception, or by being abstinent. Also, many people who get abortions use public money, and it is immoral to go against what most people want in terms of the fact that the right to life is one of the basic universal human rights. Also, only 5% of abortions are preformed as a result of rape/incest, 95% are used as a method of birth control.
In Ohio, my classmate could not get her tubes tied because she had only two children or a certain age or married.

Abstinent is nice in theory but unrealistic for a general population. Some may be able to practice it but there will never be a society where every person that doesn't wish a child will not have sex.

In the US, no public money is used on abortion. Canada and elsewhere is different.

Can I see where you have gotten your stats? I don't believe them so please provide a source.
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Re: Pro-life day (Silence against abortion) - October 22nd 2010, 02:01 AM

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Originally Posted by thebigmole View Post
I think it's perfect, pro-lifers should keep their mouths shut anyway.

That was slightly rude but I'll explain. I think that everyone is entitled to their opinions, but the whole point of the pro-life argument is forcing those opinions on others. So I think this day would actually be better in support of the pro-choice side than the pro-life side.
Yep. It was rude. Don't be pissed because someone had a great idea that you happen to not like.


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Re: Pro-life day (Silence against abortion) - October 22nd 2010, 02:09 AM

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Originally Posted by Guile View Post
If you demand complete rights to your body, then you have the responsibility to prevent a pregnancy you do not want through contraception, or by being abstinent. Also, many people who get abortions use public money, and it is immoral to go against what most people want in terms of the fact that the right to life is one of the basic universal human rights. Also, only 5% of abortions are preformed as a result of rape/incest, 95% are used as a method of birth control.
What alternate reality do you get your facts from? I mean you are so off that I'm not gonna even try to fix it, just refer you to the past abortion thread.


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Re: Pro-life day (Silence against abortion) - October 22nd 2010, 02:13 AM

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Originally Posted by Algernon View Post
Yep. It was rude. Don't be pissed because someone had a great idea that you happen to not like.
I never said I didn't like the protest. Though honestly it's not like it was an original idea. In fact since that kind of protest is so connected to the LGBT community it's really not smart of the pro-life cause to use that form of protest. Anyway I don't agree with their cause I think it's all about forcing beliefs on others and limiting other rights in that process, which is never right.


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Re: Pro-life day (Silence against abortion) - October 22nd 2010, 06:56 AM

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Originally Posted by thebigmole View Post
What alternate reality do you get your facts from? I mean you are so off that I'm not gonna even try to fix it, just refer you to the past abortion thread.
See sources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigmole View Post
I never said I didn't like the protest. Though honestly it's not like it was an original idea. In fact since that kind of protest is so connected to the LGBT community it's really not smart of the pro-life cause to use that form of protest. Anyway I don't agree with their cause I think it's all about forcing beliefs on others and limiting other rights in that process, which is never right.
What about the right to life for the baby?

United Nations Decleration of Basic Human Rights, Preamble, Article Three
"Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person."

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Originally Posted by MisplacedDreamer View Post
In Ohio, my classmate could not get her tubes tied because she had only two children or a certain age or married.

Abstinent is nice in theory but unrealistic for a general population. Some may be able to practice it but there will never be a society where every person that doesn't wish a child will not have sex.

In the US, no public money is used on abortion. Canada and elsewhere is different.

Can I see where you have gotten your stats? I don't believe them so please provide a source.
The Alan Guttmacher Institute and Planned Parenthood's Family Planning Perspectives, let me get you the exact quote, one second.

"1% of all abortions occur because of rape or incest; 6% of abortions occur because of potential health problems regarding either the mother or child, and 93% of all abortions occur for social reasons (i.e. the child is unwanted or inconvenient)."

Alright so a 2% difference from my other source and this one, I'm noticing a trend.

Most abortions in the US are preformed on women under 25, and most women under 25 can have a child, physically speaking, or we would have no human race anymore

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShimmeringFaerie View Post


What about the people who use contraception, but it failed? Failed vasectomies? People who were told they were unable to conceive? People who've not been appropriately informed about the risk of pregnancy?
That's a risk you take, sue the doctor, sue the doctor, not the baby's fault/JFGI.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShimmeringFaerie View Post

Saying 95% of abortions are used as birth control is simply not true. You don't only get pregnant from rape or not bothering to use proper birth control. There are a whole range of other reasons and you are just ignoring them to distort the truth in your favour.
See source for more details, never said you did, sources?


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Re: Pro-life day (Silence against abortion) - October 22nd 2010, 12:06 PM

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Originally Posted by Guile View Post
What about the right to life for the baby?

United Nations Decleration of Basic Human Rights, Preamble, Article Three
"Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person."
A fetus is not a person.


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Re: Pro-life day (Silence against abortion) - October 22nd 2010, 12:19 PM

Honestly, I don't think I would/could ever have an abortion but that doesn't mean I should tell other people what to do :/

Also, no, I don't see a foetus as a human. This is why abortion is such a debatable subject :/ it depends where you see where a human life begins. Is it when it's a sperm cell, a foetus or after it's born?

The "what if you were aborted?" argument always confuses me. You could play the "what if...?" game all day :/ My mum had a miscarriage before she got pregnant with me. If that never happened she wouldn't have had me in the first place :|


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Re: Pro-life day (Silence against abortion) - October 22nd 2010, 02:26 PM

56% of abortions are performed on women in their 20s. from one of the links you provided. If you would have read further, 61% have a child already. 67% have not been married. 57% are economically disadvantaged.

61% already have children. Is that not a more significant figure? And 57% are economically disadvantaged. It is just as statistically relevant as your stats you claimed. If you want to report stats, report all of them.

Now, these are different categories and not linked. So don't think that the 56% of those who are in the 20s means that 61% have children. That's not what it means.

Women in their twenties account for more than half of all abortions; women aged 20–24 obtain 33% of all abortions, and women aged 25-29 obtain 24%

Eighteen percent of U.S. women obtaining abortions are teenagers; those aged 15-17 obtain 6% of all abortions, teens aged 18-19 obtain 11%, and teens under age 15 obtain 0.4%.

If you look at the actual break down, it may shock you to figure out that 33% are women 20-25 and 18% 15-19 so it does equal 51%. What happens during those stages of 20-24? Many women go to college or are trying to establish a career.

The reasons women give for having an abortion underscore their understanding of the responsibilities of parenthood and family life. Three-fourths of women cite concern for or responsibility to other individuals; three-fourths say they cannot afford a child; three-fourths say that having a baby would interfere with work, school or the ability to care for dependents; and half say they do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partners.

Now, we should all know that there goes more into having a child than just pushing the child out. She may not want to live with the knowledge she has a child out there or she may know she wouldn't be able to give up the child so adoption may be out of the question for her. Now, chances are around 1 in 2 that she is economically disadvantaged and 42% live 100% below the federal poverty line according to the site you used for your sources. Do you think she would be able to pay for the best prenatal care, childcare, food, toys, clothing, car seat, diapers, and everything that the child will need? She may get some of it subsidized, but money is still going to be tight. Figure she pays 300 (which is low for the area that I live in and that's always excluding utilities) for rent, that would be 3,600 for rent and federal poverty says that a person takes home less than 11,000 per year. Over a fourth goes towards her rent.

So it easy to just cite numbers that say 51% of women who have abortions are under the age of 25. However, it is important to look at more facts than just the age such as those who are economically disadvantaged and have other children.

Quote:
That's a risk you take, sue the doctor, sue the doctor, not the baby's fault/JFGI.
Uh, yeah, no. You can't sue if the vasectomy failed to hold since there's a chance it would heal. Good job on supporting the rise of malpractice insurance.

Quote:
Also, no, I don't see a foetus as a human. This is why abortion is such a debatable subject :/ it depends where you see where a human life begins. Is it when it's a sperm cell, a foetus or after it's born?
One thing to keep in mind is that at least in the US, it is known that someone may be physically alive but without higher brain activity, they would legally be brain dead.
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