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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
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Should countries limit the number of people from certain ethnicities allowed into the country? - November 13th 2010, 12:06 AM

For example, it seems that the UK has been having quite a lot of conflicts due to the large number of muslims in the country. Do you think that warrants a ban or limitation of new muslims allowed into the country?

Add-on: Is there any situation where you think having a ban or limitation would be reasonable? (for example, if projections show a certain minority group will be the majority in 10 years)

P.S. - I know this seems like an awful thing to think about. We should love and respect everyone from everywhere, of course. I just ask that when you are thinking about this topic please actually give it some thought and reason rather than just a gut response.


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Last edited by off to a new life; November 13th 2010 at 06:25 PM. Reason: adding
   
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Re: Should countries limit the number of people from certain ethnicities allowed into the country? - November 13th 2010, 12:13 AM

Well, yes and no.

I think the UK is actually becoming a bit overcrowded and the amount of people coming into the country isn't being tracked properly.

Soo, I think until we've actually sorted out all of them that are already here we should have a limit on the people coming in. However, I don't think this should be limited to certain ethnicities, it should apply to all people wanting to come in.
   
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Re: Should countries limit the number of people from certain ethnicities allowed into the country? - November 13th 2010, 12:25 AM

I don't think so because I'm sure that it would just give immigrants more incentive to enter a certain country illegally. No, I don't think countries should limit the number of people with certain ethnicity's. If any country was going to limit anyone, I think they should limit the number of people in general.
   
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Re: Should countries limit the number of people from certain ethnicities allowed into the country? - November 13th 2010, 12:41 AM

Not a certain ethnicity that would be racist just limit the amount of people in general.


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Re: Should countries limit the number of people from certain ethnicities allowed into the country? - November 13th 2010, 02:37 AM

That would be pretty racist.
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Re: Should countries limit the number of people from certain ethnicities allowed into the country? - November 13th 2010, 03:45 AM

It happened already before. The Chinese Exclusion Act back in the 1800s bar the Chinese from immigrating to America by setting a harsh quota on the number of Chinese allowed to migrate here. Look around the posters created for the purpose of that and you can see all the racial negativity against my people in its glory. But that only happens in the old days, right? And honestly, how does barring people solves anything? They don't even want to be here in the first place if they are protesting, yes? You are just going to bar the good people that actually wants to have a new life yet belong to that particular ethinicity you are against. Just seems like to rant out your racial anger against the MIDDLE EAST people. (Muslims are NOT an ethnicity, according to your post.) Also, it seems like you are just excluding people base on their religion, according to your post. Care to explain?

Something like that just makes a country looks horrible in international standing.


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Re: Should countries limit the number of people from certain ethnicities allowed into the country? - November 13th 2010, 06:13 AM

I agree with above posts, I think they should limit the amount of people in general, but limiting certain ethnicities would just cause a huge problem in itself in regards to like human rights and stuff.
   
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Re: Should countries limit the number of people from certain ethnicities allowed into the country? - November 13th 2010, 06:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos Theory View Post
It happened already before. The Chinese Exclusion Act back in the 1800s bar the Chinese from immigrating to America by setting a harsh quota on the number of Chinese allowed to migrate here. Look around the posters created for the purpose of that and you can see all the racial negativity against my people in its glory. But that only happens in the old days, right? And honestly, how does barring people solves anything? They don't even want to be here in the first place if they are protesting, yes? You are just going to bar the good people that actually wants to have a new life yet belong to that particular ethinicity you are against. Just seems like to rant out your racial anger against the MIDDLE EAST people. (Muslims are NOT an ethnicity, according to your post.) Also, it seems like you are just excluding people base on their religion, according to your post. Care to explain?

Something like that just makes a country looks horrible in international standing.
Just for the record, I am not personally arguing for this to happen. I was just posing the question to see what others think. Good point about the Chinese Exclusion Act though!

Also, just so you know, ethnicity is a broad term that means "pertaining to or characteristic of a people, esp. a group (ethnic group) sharing a common and distinctive culture, religion, language, or the like." I specifically used this broad term to start a discussion. My example of the muslims in the UK was just to give people an idea of what I meant and get started in discussing.

I know it's not a nice thing to imagine excluding certain people from our country, but I don't think it's wrong just to consider the idea. I mean, for example, how would you feel in the future if the majority of the population in your country was going to be muslim? Would you give exclusion a thought then? Because I completely support Islam, but I am not so certain I would want muslims being the majority of voters and running my country. It's not that I have anything against them, but the fact of the matter is that we are different. For example, they might make it illegal for women to go outside without a burka or forbid gay relationships.


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Re: Should countries limit the number of people from certain ethnicities allowed into the country? - November 13th 2010, 11:58 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kismet View Post
I mean, for example, how would you feel in the future if the majority of the population in your country was going to be muslim? Would you give exclusion a thought then? Because I completely support Islam, but I am not so certain I would want muslims being the majority of voters and running my country. It's not that I have anything against them, but the fact of the matter is that we are different. For example, they might make it illegal for women to go outside without a burka or forbid gay relationships.
Same stance as you. Don't mind them in the country, unless they're extremists of course, but I'm very against the idea that they outnumber us. You realise they actually want to bring Sharia Law to the UK? :L
   
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Re: Should countries limit the number of people from certain ethnicities allowed into the country? - November 14th 2010, 12:11 AM

... i believe the usa already has a limit on how many people can come to the country but im not sure... but in my eyes we need to geth rid of the ones here already illegally before trying to make a law that limits the race of people who can come here... when they do that im all for it...
   
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Re: Should countries limit the number of people from certain ethnicities allowed into the country? - November 14th 2010, 12:38 AM

Just no.




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Re: Should countries limit the number of people from certain ethnicities allowed into the country? - November 14th 2010, 03:56 AM

Countries should try harder to limit the unskilled workers from entering a country. I know Australia already kind of does that in terms of asking what profession the person is planning on.
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Re: Should countries limit the number of people from certain ethnicities allowed into the country? - November 14th 2010, 09:24 AM

USA restricted non Nordic immigration after 1924 (Nordics are Germans, Swedes, Danes, Swiss, some Poles, Norwegians, and Finns). Here's the President signing it into law.


I support the idea 100%, we need to maintain a proper balance, and not let other people leech off of all the work we have done to make our lands great, you don't see Europeans swarming to get into Africa.


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Re: Should countries limit the number of people from certain ethnicities allowed into the country? - November 14th 2010, 11:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kismet View Post
For example, it seems that the UK has been having quite a lot of conflicts due to the large number of muslims in the country. Do you think that warrants a ban or limitation of new muslims allowed into the country?
No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kismet View Post
Add-on: Is there any situation where you think having a ban or limitation would be reasonable? (for example, if projections show a certain minority group will be the majority in 10 years)
No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kismet View Post
P.S. - I know this seems like an awful thing to think about. We should love and respect everyone from everywhere, of course. I just ask that when you are thinking about this topic please actually give it some thought and reason rather than just a gut response.
It would lead to even more intense racism than we have already. It would be the biggest step backwards we could possibly make at this moment.



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Re: Should countries limit the number of people from certain ethnicities allowed into the country? - November 15th 2010, 06:33 AM

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Originally Posted by Allons-y! View Post

No.


No.


It would lead to even more intense racism than we have already. It would be the biggest step backwards we could possibly make at this moment.
Biggest step back for the country, or for racial equality? It's one or the other, you have to decide what matters most.
   
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Re: Should countries limit the number of people from certain ethnicities allowed into the country? - November 15th 2010, 07:16 AM

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Originally Posted by Allons-y! View Post

It would lead to even more intense racism than we have already. It would be the biggest step backwards we could possibly make at this moment.


There's a difference between Racism, as many people keep saying, and Statistics. Immigrants, especially those of the non-Europid genotype, are more likely to be criminals, earn less money, and be a burden on society. Often time these immigrants are of lower intelligence then the natives, for example,

IQ by Country
  • Germany 102
  • United Kingdom 100
  • United States 98
  • Mexico 87
  • Zambia 77
  • Nigeria 67
  • Ethiopia 63
  • Equatorial Guinea 59

Obviously, we should not let people in from countries whose average IQ is, based on statistics with no racism, and objective, with the range for Mild mental retardation being (50–69), so the average person in these countries is Mildly retarded, and places like Mexico are hardly above Borderline intellectual functioning (70–84).


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Re: Should countries limit the number of people from certain ethnicities allowed into the country? - November 15th 2010, 07:40 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guile View Post
There's a difference between Racism, as many people keep saying, and Statistics. Immigrants, especially those of the non-Europid genotype, are more likely to be criminals, earn less money, and be a burden on society. Often time these immigrants are of lower intelligence then the natives, for example,

IQ by Country
  • Germany 102
  • United Kingdom 100
  • United States 98
  • Mexico 87
  • Zambia 77
  • Nigeria 67
  • Ethiopia 63
  • Equatorial Guinea 59

Obviously, we should not let people in from countries whose average IQ is, based on statistics with no racism, and objective, with the range for Mild mental retardation being (50–69), so the average person in these countries is Mildly retarded, and places like Mexico are hardly above Borderline intellectual functioning (70–84).
I'm sorry, but WHAT?! You do realize that education, in say Nigeria, wasn't, and still isn't, available to everyone right? IQ scores have nothing to do with the people themselves. Also, do you know that Germany has a lot, and I mean a lot, of Turkish immigrants? Immigration is NOT a bad thing. Yes, overpopulation can be bad for a country, especially a small one like the U.K. The U.S., however, is not overpopulated, so limiting immigration, especially on the basis of race and religion is not just wrong, its horrific. So no, I'm against limits for any reason.


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Re: Should countries limit the number of people from certain ethnicities allowed into the country? - November 15th 2010, 07:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guile View Post
There's a difference between Racism, as many people keep saying, and Statistics. Immigrants, especially those of the non-Europid genotype, are more likely to be criminals, earn less money, and be a burden on society. Often time these immigrants are of lower intelligence then the natives, for example,

IQ by Country
  • Germany 102
  • United Kingdom 100
  • United States 98
  • Mexico 87
  • Zambia 77
  • Nigeria 67
  • Ethiopia 63
  • Equatorial Guinea 59

Obviously, we should not let people in from countries whose average IQ is, based on statistics with no racism, and objective, with the range for Mild mental retardation being (50–69), so the average person in these countries is Mildly retarded, and places like Mexico are hardly above Borderline intellectual functioning (70–84).
The most educated countries tend to produce the most intelligent citizens. That's a shocker. I hear that living in Africa makes it more likely for you to have dark skin, too. Post hoc ergo proctor hoc is an argumentative fallacy; correlation does not imply causation. In this case, I believe that research shows that poverty and lack of education are the major contributors to crime, not skin colour.

Your arguments resound very strongly of Ann Coulter's infamous "All terrorists are Muslims." If your goal is to justify your beliefs to yourself, I'm sure you'll succeed admirably. If your goal is to convince others, I would wish you luck, but I'd rather not see intolerance spread any more than it already is


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Re: Should countries limit the number of people from certain ethnicities allowed into the country? - November 15th 2010, 07:49 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey. View Post
I'm sorry, but WHAT?! You do realize that education, in say Nigeria, wasn't, and still isn't, available to everyone right? IQ scores have nothing to do with the people themselves. Also, do you know that Germany has a lot, and I mean a lot, of Turkish immigrants? Immigration is NOT a bad thing. Yes, overpopulation can be bad for a country, especially a small one like the U.K. The U.S., however, is not overpopulated, so limiting immigration, especially on the basis of race and religion is not just wrong, its horrific. So no, I'm against limits for any reason.
IQ is not dependent on education, it is 90% genetics, and at most in your life your IQ can fluctuate about 10 points, meaning at a lowest the average IQ of, let's say Germany is 92, while in Equatorial Guinea it's 69 (which is still considered retarded). Anyway, the average IQ of Turkey is 90, they're hurting us in Germany, they commit crimes, and insult our government. We're sick of them here, and ask any German, they're sick of all the Turks committing crimes and forming inner city street gangs.

Just because you're poor or uneducated does not give you an excuse to commit crimes Xujhan.


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Re: Should countries limit the number of people from certain ethnicities allowed into the country? - November 15th 2010, 01:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guile View Post
IQ by Country
  • Germany 102
  • United Kingdom 100
  • United States 98
  • Mexico 87
  • Zambia 77
  • Nigeria 67
  • Ethiopia 63
  • Equatorial Guinea 59
Citation needed.



   
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Re: Should countries limit the number of people from certain ethnicities allowed into the country? - November 15th 2010, 02:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guile View Post
There's a difference between Racism, as many people keep saying, and Statistics. Immigrants, especially those of the non-Europid genotype, are more likely to be criminals, earn less money, and be a burden on society. Often time these immigrants are of lower intelligence then the natives, for example,

IQ by Country
  • Germany 102
  • United Kingdom 100
  • United States 98
  • Mexico 87
  • Zambia 77
  • Nigeria 67
  • Ethiopia 63
  • Equatorial Guinea 59

Obviously, we should not let people in from countries whose average IQ is, based on statistics with no racism, and objective, with the range for Mild mental retardation being (50–69), so the average person in these countries is Mildly retarded, and places like Mexico are hardly above Borderline intellectual functioning (70–84).
First of all, A) citation needed. B) The IQ scale is NOT, repeat NOT, cross culturally applicable. THe IQ test was written and based on the Western civilizations idea on what intelligence includes, which the definition itself is being debated every year. Each culture has its own definition of what intelligence is. Some cultures have no notation of a linear timeline and think of time as a daily cycle; it would be silly to ask them what happened three days ago.

C) As Xujhan stated, corralatuion does not mean causation. There are plenty of other external factors that might cause this statistical spread, such as...i don't know...lower economic oppotunities, lower educational standards, ect. Or as i mentioned before, cutural diffeneces in intelligence teaching. Also, Being poor and uneducated does not give you an excuse to do crime, nothing does, but if you have no skills and no one is hiring in the market place, what other option do you have to feed, clothe and shelter yourself? It's not so much they are stupid, it is that they are desparate.

D) I would also like to add that it would be impossible to screeen people based on a RELIGON, which Islam is. I have known caucasians who follow Muhammad, and I have known Arabs who followed Chrsit. Thoughts and beliefs are alot harder to screen for then a race

P.S. I think it's funny how the United States has the Lower IQ range of the so-called devolped countries


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Re: Should countries limit the number of people from certain ethnicities allowed into the country? - November 16th 2010, 07:01 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guile View Post
IQ is not dependent on education, it is 90% genetics, and at most in your life your IQ can fluctuate about 10 points, meaning at a lowest the average IQ of, let's say Germany is 92, while in Equatorial Guinea it's 69 (which is still considered retarded). Anyway, the average IQ of Turkey is 90, they're hurting us in Germany, they commit crimes, and insult our government. We're sick of them here, and ask any German, they're sick of all the Turks committing crimes and forming inner city street gangs.
Everything Will just said, with a side dish of "Please actually read a book or two on the subject before you quote from Wikipedia." Actually, I think even Wikipedia could tell you what Will just said. Certainly my first-year psych course did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guile View Post
Just because you're poor or uneducated does not give you an excuse to commit crimes Xujhan.
Do you want to talk statistics are morality? Pick one, don't flit between the two. Being poor and uneducated causes people to be more likely to commit crimes; fact, regardless of the moral implications. That's a causational relationship. Being Muslim (or other foreign groups) only makes you more likely to be poor and uneducated. That's a correlational relationship. If we want to talk morality though, the moral thing is to help the poor and uneducated become stable and educated, not toss them out of the country and wash your hands of it.


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Re: Should countries limit the number of people from certain ethnicities allowed into the country? - November 16th 2010, 07:16 PM

The speculated increase in conflict in the UK has less to do with an increase in the number of Muslims and more to do with an inherent underlying racism based upon fear and anger being the default reaction to things not understood. I say that as a citizen of the UK who has no intention of getting on the high horse, because at times I've been guilty of similar reactions to the unknown myself. Putting a bar on the numbers from certain ethnic groups will not address either that state of fear or lack of knowledge, and has the potential to merely exacerbate the problem. Many of the statements I have seen concerning Islam and Muslims would fit just as well in the 19th century if you replaced "Islam" with "Judaism" and "Muslims" with "Jews", or in England in the 16th and 17th centuries if you replaced them with "Catholic". Intolerance crosses all periods of history and cultures, and that is the root of the problem.

Put simply, there is no basis on which I would consider such restrictions on such a basis acceptable, and should such restrictions be introduced on that basis I would quite strongly consider emigrating, revoking my citizenship and saying damn to the consequences. As someone who is quite patriotic, I do not say that lightly.


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If you're referring to dr2005's response, it's not complex, however, he has a way with words .
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Re: Should countries limit the number of people from certain ethnicities allowed into the country? - November 16th 2010, 07:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr2005 View Post
The speculated increase in conflict in the UK has less to do with an increase in the number of Muslims and more to do with an inherent underlying racism based upon fear and anger being the default reaction to things not understood. I say that as a citizen of the UK who has no intention of getting on the high horse, because at times I've been guilty of similar reactions to the unknown myself. Putting a bar on the numbers from certain ethnic groups will not address either that state of fear or lack of knowledge, and has the potential to merely exacerbate the problem. Many of the statements I have seen concerning Islam and Muslims would fit just as well in the 19th century if you replaced "Islam" with "Judaism" and "Muslims" with "Jews", or in England in the 16th and 17th centuries if you replaced them with "Catholic". Intolerance crosses all periods of history and cultures, and that is the root of the problem.

Put simply, there is no basis on which I would consider such restrictions on such a basis acceptable, and should such restrictions be introduced on that basis I would quite strongly consider emigrating, revoking my citizenship and saying d*mn to the consequences. As someone who is quite patriotic, I do not say that lightly.
I think I'd agree. I do think we should limit the immigrants coming in, but not based on their ethnicity.
   
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Re: Should countries limit the number of people from certain ethnicities allowed into the country? - November 16th 2010, 07:33 PM

Ethnicity should have nothing to do with it, they should just limit the amount of immigration?
   
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Re: Should countries limit the number of people from certain ethnicities allowed into the country? - November 16th 2010, 07:59 PM

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Originally Posted by Guile View Post
USA restricted non Nordic immigration after 1924 (Nordics are Germans, Swedes, Danes, Swiss, some Poles, Norwegians, and Finns).
I don't think there's anything wrong in wanting to limit amount of people immigrating into a country but limiting it to a certain folk group is.
Saying we'll take you in because you're scandinavian is basically saying that you are more worth to us than if you would be african and that in my opinion is racist and going against the most simple of all rules and that is that all human beings are born free and equal.
(and btw you forgot about the icelandics)

And dr2005 people like you give me hope.


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Re: Should countries limit the number of people from certain ethnicities allowed into the country? - November 17th 2010, 10:23 AM

I think immigaration into countries should be limited, yes, but not based on what ethnicity you belong to. I think that only skilled workers who will benefit the country should be allowed in. Also, it should be further by banning those who do not even plan to try and integrate with the society they are entering. Those who come here to preach hate and inspire terrorism should be locked up. Freedom of speech is one thing but persuading people to kill other people is wrong no matter what context.



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