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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
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Oath to Hitler - February 22nd 2009, 11:40 PM

would you refuse to his terms?
   
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Re: Oath to Hitler - February 22nd 2009, 11:42 PM

Care to expand on that?

I would take the oath if it meant me saving my own skin as it often did in Nazi Germany. Otherwise I would not
   
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Re: Oath to Hitler - February 22nd 2009, 11:42 PM

I'm assuming that you are meaning: If you were in Nazi Germany at the time of Hitler, would you refuse to follow his orders?

If I'm assuming correctly, then the answer is: yes, I would. I don't agree with what he did and I sure wouldn't help him execute people. If it meant me getting killed, so be it.


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Re: Oath to Hitler - February 22nd 2009, 11:43 PM

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Originally Posted by BrittneyNicole View Post
I'm assuming that you are meaning: If you were in Nazi Germany at the time of Hitler, would you refuse to follow his orders?

If I'm assuming correctly, then the answer is: yes, I would. I don't agree with what he did and I sure wouldn't help him execute people. If it meant me getting killed, so be it.
Don't forget your family and friends, possibly getting gassed in Auschwitz or worked to death in Dachau (depending on era)
   
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Re: Oath to Hitler - February 22nd 2009, 11:44 PM

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Don't forget your family and friends, possibly getting gassed in Auschwitz or worked to death in Dachau (depending on era)
My family is the type that wouldn't go along with Hitler either. We all work to save lives as a living.


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Re: Oath to Hitler - February 22nd 2009, 11:52 PM

Thanks Brittney thats what i mean [hyper] you would let your family die?
   
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Re: Oath to Hitler - February 23rd 2009, 12:02 AM

Dunno, it's very hard to say given we are not in a dictatorship comparable to the third Reich. I would probably end up taking the oath
   
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Re: Oath to Hitler - February 23rd 2009, 12:03 AM

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My family is the type that wouldn't go along with Hitler either. We all work to save lives as a living.
While I agree with your statement, I also hate when people decide it so quickly. 'Of course I would rather die than support his murder.'

If he had a gun to your little sister's head and told you to kill someone else or he'd shoot your sister, do you think it would be that easy? Could you really just decide to let your sister die, just like that? Even when you don't even know anything about the other person, who could, for all you know, be a rapist or pedophile?

I'm not saying your choice is wrong, I just don't think the decision is that easy.

I honestly don't know what I would do and I hope I never have to decide.


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Re: Oath to Hitler - February 23rd 2009, 12:13 AM

Well, you can't tell what you would do until you're in that position.


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Re: Oath to Hitler - February 23rd 2009, 12:25 AM

I'd probably do what was said. After all, if they're, say, willing to kill my parents, that I can live with but whose to stop them from turning the barrel of the gun to me? If they said kill 10 people or I kill you, hand me a knife (rather use a knife not a gun, although I'll use a gun just that it'd be illegal), people and let me go at them. Or, considering the time, gas them, I'm not too picky.

Granted, I haven't been in such a position before, although my answer isn't simply based on me saving my skin (although that's a good part of it). I've watched hours on end daily of snuff films, aftermaths of accidents, etc..., so I wouldn't have a problem doing what I love to do. It'd be more of watching the movie rather than killing as it'd be just re-imaging some scenes or making up your own scenes and playing them. So, it'd be fine for everyone.
   
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Re: Oath to Hitler - February 23rd 2009, 12:36 AM

i would refuse because i disagreed with his laws
   
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Re: Oath to Hitler - February 23rd 2009, 12:39 AM

I dunno', I don't even like killing bugs and stuff so i'd probably wouldn't. But I don't know since it ain't really happening right now.
But then again my family ... and who's not to say that the people they were asking me to kill wouldn't kill me if they were told too.
   
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Re: Oath to Hitler - February 23rd 2009, 12:51 AM

Quote:
I swear: I will be faithful and obedient to Adolf Hitler, Führer of the German Reich and people, to observe the law, and to conscientiously fulfil my official duties, so help me God.

Sorry I would refuse this as well.


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Re: Oath to Hitler - February 23rd 2009, 01:53 AM

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would you refuse to his terms?
I'd agree to it. No point in increasing the corpse count with my own + being alive I could secretly help others.


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Re: Oath to Hitler - February 23rd 2009, 03:26 AM

I would never take oath to him. Yes, family would be in peril and everything, but they would never either. We'd all join the resistance. Think of what would have happened had people like the families that hid Anne Frank and other 'undesireables' took the cowards way out.


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Re: Oath to Hitler - February 23rd 2009, 03:27 AM

I'd like to say I'd be brave enough to resist Hitler's laws and policies, but I know I'd be lying if I said I would. If I had been living in Nazi Germany or occupied France, I'm very sure I would have sat meekly and done nothing. Everyone wants to be a hero, but when the time comes to act, very few actually do.


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Re: Oath to Hitler - February 23rd 2009, 03:31 AM

I can't put hitler Before God.


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Re: Oath to Hitler - February 23rd 2009, 03:36 AM

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I can't put hitler Before God.
Well, as has been stated, it wouldn't just be you at risk. Disenter's families were also harmed. Would you be willing to put your entire family at risk? Like the scenario posted above, if they were threatening to kill a younger sibling of yours, would you really tell them "Sorry. God first. Go ahead and kill my baby sister."?


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If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life
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Re: Oath to Hitler - February 23rd 2009, 12:00 PM

That doesn't mean my family is going to die if I don't follow Hitlers orders.


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Re: Oath to Hitler - February 23rd 2009, 01:04 PM

Due to the Hitler's charismatic nature, I'd have to say probably. Honestly, most people here would have taken that Oath, even if they completely disagreed with Hitler, due to the persuasive and charismatic nature of him. Hitler wasn't a great leader, he was just good at brainwashing thousands.

That said, I would not, in this decade, ever take the Oath. Maybe back in the 40s, but now, no way.


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Re: Oath to Hitler - February 23rd 2009, 03:44 PM

Smile, nod, take the oath, then drive like hell for Switzerland.
   
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Re: Oath to Hitler - February 23rd 2009, 03:56 PM

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That doesn't mean my family is going to die if I don't follow Hitlers orders.
Except for that fact that in the above posted scenario, it does.


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Re: Oath to Hitler - February 23rd 2009, 04:18 PM

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Smile, nod, take the oath, then drive like hell for Switzerland.
This one made me laugh


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Re: Oath to Hitler - February 23rd 2009, 04:44 PM

To be honest I'm a little unsure on this one. I've been known to put myself in dangers place to protect others before, so that would automatically make me assume that I'd say no. Thinking on it though, I'd probably pledge the oath and then help out the Jews secretly.
   
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Re: Oath to Hitler - February 23rd 2009, 07:30 PM

I would do the same fake the oath. Save the jews plus others who need help even If that means risking own life.


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Re: Oath to Hitler - February 24th 2009, 08:57 AM

I know I probably would, you also remember now we are deciding this with knowledge of what Hitler was like and what atrocities he did. At the time it wasn't common knowledge.

Most people here would probably take the oath if a leader with the popularity of Obama swept the nation off its heels promising greatness and god knows what and seeming to provide, and improve all of our lives and our nations, whilst slowly subtly and quietly isolating a racial minority and building up persecution and citing them for all the previous hardships that we had. It would be hard NOT to resist the oath.

On top of the compelling argument on one side you had the fearful secret police that were above the law, and would weed out dissenters if they spoke out against any injustice and never seen again, along with horrific rumours of slave labour camps and death camps off in far territories where these dissenters would be sent.

Then in the height of our glorious nation and the height of our prosperity and might a collaboration of countries declared war on us forcing us to defend our country, roused by our charismatic leader who had saved the nation we are caught up in a patriotic zeal, under bomb raids daily. You either get drafted into the army, or you stay at home getting word of your son/brother/father's death bringing tragedy to communities of a war started by enemies...

*Deep Breath*

You have to think in the position of someone there before you adamantly refuse that you would of sworn the oath. I mean unless you think that the WHOLE of the German population had no courage in them lol, which is plainly rubbish. they were swept up in a mass hysteria high , or silenced by the muted threat of the SS and then everything was blanked out in patriotic zeal and loss.

I would honestly say I would say the oath, but of course being half black I wouldn't of been given much of a chance and if i had any sense i would of got out of there way before any of it started lol


Quote:
Originally Posted by EDGE View Post
I can't put hitler Before God.
You wouldn't be putting Hitler before God, you see your priest and church would be supporting Hitler saying he has the support of God behind him, and then your church would become, "state-run" and slowly you would seeing subtle changes, but if you didnt like them, tough because by this time yoru friends and family and other church goers would be completely enamoured with the glorious leader, and the more vocal members of the community were dissappearing increasingly more.

And for those who said they would help the Jews in secret, you would put you, and anyone associated with you in great danger for people you don't know who great scientists, politicians, members of the religious community and pretty much society gave compelling evidence and swore they were the root of all yoru problems, economic, social and health. Before the party came to power, it was always this racial minority who was stealing yoru jobs, and always in the higher positions at your workplace. Top research suggetss that this racial minority are responsible for 50% of diseases in society, and equally unproportional amount of crime. When you go t o the pub you hear stories of how people of this minority broke into someoens house, that someone got attacked by a gang of this race.

Then you hear on the news how there was a terrioist attack by them, promiment members of society was murdered by people of this race... ect ect.

You have all good intentions but don't you think if it was that simple that a whole nation woudl of rolled over and let this happen? Plus you all don't actually know about the true extent of the atrocities committed, it is a horrible fact but I think most would swear the oath.


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Originally Posted by Scout View Post
I would never take oath to him. Yes, family would be in peril and everything, but they would never either. We'd all join the resistance. Think of what would have happened had people like the families that hid Anne Frank and other 'undesireables' took the cowards way out.
Resistance were few and far between, and most of them were executed, and they were weak and posed little threat to Hitler.
On top of that I'm not sure but I swear that Anne Franks family were sold out by the people who were sheltering them? Even if they didn't they evidently were only prolonging the inevitable? many would-be resistors probably saw the futility of it. that on top of my above point that this man saved you from poverty and you had never been so well off... oh and you was in a war where your friends/family/you were getting killed and brought home in a coffin? I doubt Germany had many conscientious objectors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YourNightmare View Post
I'd probably do what was said. After all, if they're, say, willing to kill my parents, that I can live with but whose to stop them from turning the barrel of the gun to me? If they said kill 10 people or I kill you, hand me a knife (rather use a knife not a gun, although I'll use a gun just that it'd be illegal), people and let me go at them. Or, considering the time, gas them, I'm not too picky.

Granted, I haven't been in such a position before, although my answer isn't simply based on me saving my skin (although that's a good part of it). I've watched hours on end daily of snuff films, aftermaths of accidents, etc..., so I wouldn't have a problem doing what I love to do. It'd be more of watching the movie rather than killing as it'd be just re-imaging some scenes or making up your own scenes and playing them. So, it'd be fine for everyone.
Dude, the act in itself would be easy I admit, its the aftermath that killing women and children would bring, wouldn't your conscience suffer after slaughtering thousands of innocents, including women and children. I have heard chilling stories of how Nazi officers would snatch a baby from a mother's arms and smash it against the wall if she refused to let go.

Say what you like about how easy you think you'd find it, the human brain would naturally be disturbed by that. That is why gas was used to kill the Jews, because the soldiers in the death squads were being so affected by the psychological impact of countless slaughters, that the Reich had to find a more "humane" way of killing them. Its hard to comprehend their mentality.

Last edited by Guardian_Angel; February 24th 2009 at 09:26 AM.
   
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Re: Oath to Hitler - February 24th 2009, 09:09 AM

It's actually impossible to know what you would do. Scientifically speaking. You quite literally don't know what you want/will do in the future because you cannot predict your response at that time, emotionally, etc etc. That being said, I just don't know. I hope I never do.



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Re: Oath to Hitler - February 24th 2009, 02:32 PM

ShadeOfSolitude, thank you for that post. I agree.

Knowing myself pretty well, I can actually say that I would have taken the oath.
   
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Re: Oath to Hitler - February 24th 2009, 02:36 PM

Quote:
Dude, the act in itself would be easy I admit, its the aftermath that killing women and children would bring, wouldn't your conscience suffer after slaughtering thousands of innocents, including women and children. I have heard chilling stories of how Nazi officers would snatch a baby from a mother's arms and smash it against the wall if she refused to let go.

Say what you like about how easy you think you'd find it, the human brain would naturally be disturbed by that. That is why gas was used to kill the Jews, because the soldiers in the death squads were being so affected by the psychological impact of countless slaughters, that the Reich had to find a more "humane" way of killing them. Its hard to comprehend their mentality.
It depends on brainwashing as children too. A not insignificant members of ex-SS men were not sorry or even remorseful for their actions. If you see that Jews are vermin then it's exterminating for the greater good
   
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Re: Oath to Hitler - February 24th 2009, 03:48 PM

I'd have taken the oath, and so would most of the people who say they wouldn't as well.
   
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Re: Oath to Hitler - February 24th 2009, 05:25 PM

that was such a good post peter :P

to be honest i'd have taken it - not because i agree with the ways now, but like peter and casey have said, hitler had popularity and charisma. he brainwashed little children to tell if their parents had said something against him... he was powerful - that's why there was little to no resistance.

also, hardly anyone knew what was happening to the jewish. they were being loaded onto cattle carts saying that they were going to a better place for them - and after being in ghettos for god knows how many years, they'd be happy (as well as the fact they were being forced) to go anywhere. the british army only realised when they uncovered concentration camps as they were pushing back the german army to germany near the end of the war (is that fact right? my modern history is a bit hazy). yes, it might've been leaked around poland and germany, but overall there was very, very little knowledge of what was happening - they were all rumours, speculations...

but anyway, i just don't think i would've been able to refuse. i'd have kept very, very quiet if i'd have been around in the 30's and just try, as hard as i could, to protect my family...


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Re: Oath to Hitler - February 24th 2009, 07:25 PM

An oath doesn't mean crap. I'd take the pledge and then help other people behind Hitler's back.

Especially if it's my family on the line. I'd jump in front of a bus for them, so I think I could handle a little oath.


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Re: Oath to Hitler - February 24th 2009, 10:01 PM

An oath meant a damn site more then than it does not. Then an oath was essentially a contract
   
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Re: Oath to Hitler - February 24th 2009, 10:50 PM

Hitler hated everyone not german right?
   
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Re: Oath to Hitler - February 24th 2009, 11:00 PM

No, he hated everyone who was not Aryan. The Aryan race covers most of Germany, Western Europe and Scandinavia. There were Norwegians, Fins, Danes, Dutch and French fighting in the Waffen SS which you could not join if you were not Aryan
   
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Re: Oath to Hitler - February 24th 2009, 11:01 PM

Nope, Hitler respected the English and admired Islam and its followers. He didn't really have much against most other nationalities either, he saw slavic races and Jews as sub-human though.
   
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Re: Oath to Hitler - February 25th 2009, 01:01 AM

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Originally Posted by Jessie View Post
It's actually impossible to know what you would do. Scientifically speaking. You quite literally don't know what you want/will do in the future because you cannot predict your response at that time, emotionally, etc etc. That being said, I just don't know. I hope I never do.
Hindsight is twenty-twenty.

I probably would have taken the oath because that is what I would have been conditioned to do.


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Re: Oath to Hitler - February 25th 2009, 01:19 AM

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Originally Posted by udontno View Post
Hindsight is twenty-twenty.

I probably would have taken the oath because that is what I would have been conditioned to do.
Take the oath....once your free of hitler/staff do as you please.


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Re: Oath to Hitler - February 25th 2009, 01:21 AM

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Take the oath....once your free of hitler/staff do as you please.
But at the time, if I was living in Nazi Germany I would believe that he was right. I would go with the majority most likely. It's no telling what my mindset would have been. I know now that things like the mass genocide of people are wrong, but if I was told that it was okay to kill of the Jews then I might believe that.


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Re: Oath to Hitler - February 25th 2009, 01:38 AM

Not everyone agreed with Hitler at the end of the war 1943+ they realized what they were doing was wrong and needed to stop hitler some way or another many plotted to kill him and failed resulting in death but many today are looked upon as heros.


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