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Post What the heck? - November 23rd 2010, 10:35 AM

Ok I am in the Uk , we get free health services (excluding cosmetic surjury etc)
But you have to pay elsewhere right? Is that fair if you are involved in an accident?
You pay taxes in USA etc , we pay taxes here and that is what funds the NHS (National Health Service)
We don't need medical insurance or even pay fees , we get it free , even people who hurt themselves on purpose.
Now , i'm not complaining , but I just though it wasn't fair for other countries to have to pay!
What do you think?




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Re: What the heck? - November 23rd 2010, 12:07 PM

Here in Canada we have free health care (Dr stuffs) Not sure about hospitals, I think we just have to pay if we stay overnight in a room.



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Re: What the heck? - November 23rd 2010, 01:31 PM

If you're in an accident, depending on who caused it, the other person has to pay. I'm pretty sure the reason we don't have it is that our taxes for that are lower. And now it isn't as big a deal because of the health care stuff passed.

I'm not sure I'd want free healthcare. It eliminates competition for doctors, so who says they'll try as hard?



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Re: What the heck? - November 23rd 2010, 03:16 PM

Well, it depends really. The system is very confusing and they are imposing changes. Right now, there are different levels of whether or not you will be able to pay back the hospital. If you make under X amount, you wouldn't be expected to be able to pay the hospital back so you can fill out a paper and have them write it off. My friend had to do that when he went to the ER without health insurance.

In accidents, depending on what type, it may be covered by other insurance like automotive insurance or the employer's insurance. If someone cuts their hand cutting meat, the store will cover it. If someone rear-ends me, their insurance will cover it but if they don't have insurance then mine may (not sure.) Then there are different types of automotive insurance such as states that are no-fault.

Also, the ER cannot turn someone away as that is called patient dumping and is illegal. They have to provide adequate care for the person regardless of whether or not they can pay. I have to take a patient to the appropriate "adequate" medical facility meaning I can't bypass X hospital because the patient lacks insurance but I can pass it if the patient is burned and X doesn't have a burn unit but Y, which is within fifteen minutes instead of ten, does.

Plus then comes the argument of legislation. We limit the amount of qualified doctors that can get licensed and we make it harder for medical schools to open so competition is less. Plus some of the duties of a doctor could be passed onto mid-level providers (nurse practitioners and physician assistants). There have been arguments about whether or not anesthesia is a duty of nursing or is practicing medicine.

Like it is more complicated than just saying there should be this and there should be that.
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Re: What the heck? - November 23rd 2010, 08:05 PM

Health care is a right and nobody should ever be denied care for lack of money. Being completely honest, there are some problems with our health care system in Canada, but I believe that's due to poor leadership rather than an inherent problem with public healthcare.


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Re: What the heck? - November 23rd 2010, 09:48 PM

How is healthcare a right?
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Re: What the heck? - November 23rd 2010, 10:48 PM

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How is healthcare a right?
I meant that, in my opinion, people should have the right to healthcare.


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Re: What the heck? - November 24th 2010, 12:32 AM

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How is healthcare a right?
People have the right to adequate health care and living conditions.

To be honest, it's much more of a right than free education but you offer that anyway.

I just wonder when America is going to catch up with the rest of the modern world.


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Re: What the heck? - November 24th 2010, 12:57 AM

You silly persdon, nothing is free, anyway you pay it in taxes. We don't have to pay when it is someone else's fault, it's called a lawsuit, and the responsible party pays. Anyway, I have no desire to pay for someone's health care, it's not my responsibility to pay, maybe I could support it if we had Eugenics, and therefore diseasse and such would become uncommon.

On a side not, nothing is a right, only a granted privelege by their sovereign government, noone deserves free healthcare, food, or housing.


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Re: What the heck? - November 24th 2010, 02:22 AM

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People have the right to adequate health care and living conditions.

To be honest, it's much more of a right than free education but you offer that anyway.

I just wonder when America is going to catch up with the rest of the modern world.
I really don't see how healthcare is a right. Having emergency healthcare, sure I can see that as a right. Saying it is does not make it so. Explain it more to me.
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Re: What the heck? - November 24th 2010, 03:27 AM

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I really don't see how healthcare is a right.
Are you serious? Do you actually not think we are entitled to a healthy life? How odd of a human to say that
   
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Re: What the heck? - November 24th 2010, 03:49 AM

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Are you serious? Do you actually not think we are entitled to a healthy life? How odd of a human to say that
Entitlement is a huge issue with the world, especially America. We need the government to do this! We are entitled to this. We are entitled to that. I don't see it. It is a luxury and I say emergency care should be covered, but there needs to be responsibility for people's overall health.
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Re: What the heck? - November 24th 2010, 07:32 AM

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How is healthcare a right?
Well ECHR's rights state that humans have the right to life
I guess healrh care kin da helps you to life




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Re: What the heck? - November 24th 2010, 07:34 AM

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You silly persdon, nothing is free, anyway you pay it in taxes. We don't have to pay when it is someone else's fault, it's called a lawsuit, and the responsible party pays. Anyway, I have no desire to pay for someone's health care, it's not my responsibility to pay, maybe I could support it if we had Eugenics, and therefore diseasse and such would become uncommon.

On a side not, nothing is a right, only a granted privelege by their sovereign government, noone deserves free healthcare, food, or housing.
Silly person?? Moi? No I am statng Uk healthcare is just something we get here. Things atre free , the air is , the sea is , so don't be so miserable!




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Re: What the heck? - November 24th 2010, 07:46 AM

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Entitlement is a huge issue with the world, especially America. We need the government to do this! We are entitled to this. We are entitled to that. I don't see it. It is a luxury and I say emergency care should be covered, but there needs to be responsibility for people's overall health.
Are you talking emergencies like life/death situations only? Because I think that if someone for example sprains their ankle, they are entitled to physio to get their ankle back to normal.
Also, on a less physical note, if someone feels upset, left out or a bit depressed (no im not talking about diagnosed depression) they should be entitled to free counselling. I know youths here (NZ) are entitled to free counselling, and I think adults are too. That is certainly not an emergency but I think people should be entitled to feel good.
I guess people will disagree with this, but it all depends on values I suppose.
   
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Re: What the heck? - November 24th 2010, 11:19 AM

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If you're in an accident, depending on who caused it, the other person has to pay. I'm pretty sure the reason we don't have it is that our taxes for that are lower. And now it isn't as big a deal because of the health care stuff passed.

I'm not sure I'd want free healthcare. It eliminates competition for doctors, so who says they'll try as hard?
actually the standard of healthcare in the UK is fantastic. not paying for it doesn't mean it's not as good. In America patients are sometimes given treatment that they don't need or given a course of treatment that is unnecessarily long - so doctors can make more money out of them. it works both ways. i think we have the best of both worlds here - we have a private healthcare system for those who want (and can afford it) and a national health service who treat anyone.


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Re: What the heck? - November 24th 2010, 11:52 AM

It's a paid system in Australia too.
Medicare is our default healthcare insurance agency, the public one. There are many more private health insurance agencies of which generally cost more, yet generally become more beneficial to those who require it.
So basically it's just another insurance-based healthcare system here.


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Re: What the heck? - November 24th 2010, 12:40 PM

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actually the standard of healthcare in the UK is fantastic. not paying for it doesn't mean it's not as good. In America patients are sometimes given treatment that they don't need or given a course of treatment that is unnecessarily long - so doctors can make more money out of them. it works both ways. i think we have the best of both worlds here - we have a private healthcare system for those who want (and can afford it) and a national health service who treat anyone.
I do love the NHS and for the most part it's good but I think the standard of it varies throughout the country. I've had horrible doctors before and my NHS dentist is awful aswell but generally it's good

I definitely agree with you Elle about the American system. I've read things where patients have extended operations for something that's done over here in about half the time.
   
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Re: What the heck? - November 24th 2010, 05:58 PM

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Well ECHR's rights state that humans have the right to life
I guess healrh care kin da helps you to life
It helps, but it is not a driving force to keep a person alive. It is a luxury, not something a person is entitled to. People lived before without healthcare and people currently are living without healthcare. Sure, people may live longer with healthcare but with the current trend of society, healthcare isn't going to keep people alive that much longer.

Only some of the oceans are free. A lot of the oceans are controlled by a country or another. Air quality also is monitored by a government agency.

Quote:
Are you talking emergencies like life/death situations only? Because I think that if someone for example sprains their ankle, they are entitled to physio to get their ankle back to normal.
Also, on a less physical note, if someone feels upset, left out or a bit depressed (no im not talking about diagnosed depression) they should be entitled to free counselling. I know youths here (NZ) are entitled to free counselling, and I think adults are too. That is certainly not an emergency but I think people should be entitled to feel good.
I guess people will disagree with this, but it all depends on values I suppose.
Situations that could become potential life or death situations. The hospitals should treat someone, but they should be expected to pay. If they break their arm or leg, that is an emergency that needs to be corrected.

Is the counseling face-to-face or is it via a telephone?

Quote:
actually the standard of healthcare in the UK is fantastic. not paying for it doesn't mean it's not as good. In America patients are sometimes given treatment that they don't need or given a course of treatment that is unnecessarily long - so doctors can make more money out of them. it works both ways.
That would be considered unethical and the doctors could lose their license if it is found out about. Most of the US health insurance fraud cases I have read about are in regards to Medicaid or Medicare, which is provided by the government already. So would it make sense for us to add another insurance so more people can scam it? America is supposed to be set up so people are self-reliant, not having a government body to play daddy with them.
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Re: What the heck? - November 24th 2010, 06:59 PM

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Situations that could become potential life or death situations. The hospitals should treat someone, but they should be expected to pay. If they break their arm or leg, that is an emergency that needs to be corrected.
Is the counseling face-to-face or is it via a telephone?
Face - to - face...everyone knows there are helplines all around the world that are free LOL!

And yes I know it is an emergency...but its not life/death so I just wanted to know what you thought was an emergency.
   
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Re: What the heck? - November 24th 2010, 07:50 PM

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That would be considered unethical and the doctors could lose their license if it is found out about. Most of the US health insurance fraud cases I have read about are in regards to Medicaid or Medicare, which is provided by the government already. So would it make sense for us to add another insurance so more people can scam it? America is supposed to be set up so people are self-reliant, not having a government body to play daddy with them.
The good thing about the healthcare in the UK is that everyone is entitled to, and receives treatment.. no matter what they earn or who they are. The American system is great.. for those who can afford it. It's fantastic to be 'self-reliant' but what about the people who aren't? Here, a tramp on the street is just as entitled to decent health care as a multi-millionaire. And i said, we do have a private system for those who would rather go down that route.. but it's only really beneficial for things like dental work and minor problems in my opinion.


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Re: What the heck? - November 25th 2010, 11:13 AM

Only some of the oceans are free. A lot of the oceans are controlled by a country or another. Air quality also is monitored by a government agency.

Even the air is controlled!? That is crazy




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Re: What the heck? - November 25th 2010, 07:29 PM

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People have the right to adequate health care and living conditions.

To be honest, it's much more of a right than free education but you offer that anyway.

I just wonder when America is going to catch up with the rest of the modern world.
Word. I've been trying to tell people for years that public option health care is exactly the same as public education, and nobody ever listens. And yet if we got rid of our public education system, there'd be riots.



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Re: What the heck? - November 25th 2010, 08:34 PM

I'm all for UHC, because if I get really sick, which happens alot, I can't go to the doctor, I don't have insurance. I can go to A&E and get the bill written off, but to be able to see a doctor in general, would be amazing. There are flaws with every system, so of course there are going to be flaws with health care, but at least it will be within the reach of everyone, and not just for those who can afford it.


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Re: What the heck? - November 26th 2010, 12:16 AM

I am against UHC and look I am saying that as someone who CURRENTLY gets Medicade which is provided by the government and hate the fact I am on government funds.
   
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Re: What the heck? - November 26th 2010, 11:17 AM

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Word. I've been trying to tell people for years that public option health care is exactly the same as public education, and nobody ever listens. And yet if we got rid of our public education system, there'd be riots.
So, in regards to comparing to the American system, we will have overspending and poor management? Healthcare in America will then probably drop drastically and it will be mismanaged at many different levels. Then people will wonder why it sucks but refuse to pour any money into helping it? So if it will be exactly the same as education (which it won't be since they are two different systems to begin with, but I will say it will be similar to education), then why the hell would I support government-funded healthcare when I do not support government-funded schools?

Oh and most schools in my area are facing a budget-crisis.

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Re: What the heck? - November 26th 2010, 06:03 PM

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So, in regards to comparing to the American system, we will have overspending and poor management? Healthcare in America will then probably drop drastically and it will be mismanaged at many different levels. Then people will wonder why it sucks but refuse to pour any money into helping it? So if it will be exactly the same as education (which it won't be since they are two different systems to begin with, but I will say it will be similar to education), then why the hell would I support government-funded healthcare when I do not support government-funded schools?

Oh and most schools in my area are facing a budget-crisis.
Why do you not support public education secondary school at least?
   
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Re: What the heck? - November 27th 2010, 02:46 AM

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Ok I am in the Uk , we get free health services (excluding cosmetic surjury etc)
But you have to pay elsewhere right? Is that fair if you are involved in an accident?
You pay taxes in USA etc , we pay taxes here and that is what funds the NHS (National Health Service)
We don't need medical insurance or even pay fees , we get it free , even people who hurt themselves on purpose.
Now , i'm not complaining , but I just though it wasn't fair for other countries to have to pay!
What do you think?
What do I think? I think you know very little about the rest of the world if you think the UK is the only country with mostly free health care services. In this respect, "free" though is simply that people don't have to pay out of their pocket for most health services, although in reality none of it is free because the equipment has to come from somewhere, the hospitals require millions to be constructed, etc... . Also, the money used comes from general taxes for public healthcare, while private health care is paid for, so not all health care regardless of the service required is free in the UK.

So using this limited idea of "free" for public sector health services that don't require additional payments, the same occurs in other countries, such as Canada. Like the UK, procedures such as plastic surgery are not covered, however, people may have to pay for health care if, say, there is an injury involving a broken arm whereas others wouldn't have to pay. This is if there's an accident and the person is found responsible, they have to provide compensation and the thing people love best in this is money.

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Only some of the oceans are free. A lot of the oceans are controlled by a country or another. Air quality also is monitored by a government agency.

Even the air is controlled!? That is crazy
The air itself is not controlled by humans, simple high-school science can tell you why. The government controls what humans put into the air relative to what is already in the air. If they didn't, countries could put in whatever they felt like in whatever concentration, amounts and frequencies but nobody would be able to force them not to.

Oceans being controlled by a country is analogous to land being controlled by a country. If you have an issue with some oceans being controlled, then why do you have an issue with land being controlled?


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Re: What the heck? - November 28th 2010, 04:22 AM

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Why do you not support public education secondary school at least?
Start another thread and I will tell you why.
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Re: What the heck? - November 28th 2010, 01:32 PM

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Start another thread and I will tell you why.
like what kind of other thread?
   
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Re: What the heck? - November 30th 2010, 07:29 PM

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So, in regards to comparing to the American system, we will have overspending and poor management? Healthcare in America will then probably drop drastically and it will be mismanaged at many different levels. Then people will wonder why it sucks but refuse to pour any money into helping it? So if it will be exactly the same as education (which it won't be since they are two different systems to begin with, but I will say it will be similar to education), then why the hell would I support government-funded healthcare when I do not support government-funded schools?

Oh and most schools in my area are facing a budget-crisis.
I said public option. As in, you have the option to receive government funded healthcare. If you don't want it, by all means, stay private. Just like how if you hate public schools, you go private.



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Re: What the heck? - November 30th 2010, 07:45 PM

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So, in regards to comparing to the American system, we will have overspending and poor management? Healthcare in America will then probably drop drastically and it will be mismanaged at many different levels. Then people will wonder why it sucks but refuse to pour any money into helping it? So if it will be exactly the same as education (which it won't be since they are two different systems to begin with, but I will say it will be similar to education), then why the hell would I support government-funded healthcare when I do not support government-funded schools?

Oh and most schools in my area are facing a budget-crisis.
You seem to be implying that neither of the problems in bold happen in the private sector; believe me, it can be just as bad if not worse. People place too much emphasis on the power of market forces in improving company performance, when in reality if your company is in a sufficiently strong position you really have no incentive to change your ways and there are very few with the clout to make you change them. Public ownership brings its own unique problems, but it also brings a much higher level of scrutiny as the number of enquiries in the UK demonstrate. It's a question of balance ultimately.


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If you're referring to dr2005's response, it's not complex, however, he has a way with words .
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Re: What the heck? - November 30th 2010, 11:07 PM

NHS is not a perfect system. But is free and equal on the point of contact. It makes me feel proud to be British and proud to be a medical student who will spend their life in the NHS.

And believe me there is PLENTY of competition amongst medics.

A lot of the object to the NHS I have seen even on THIS site stems from ignorance of our system.

Ignorance generally explains quite a lot I feel.
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Re: What the heck? - December 1st 2010, 05:18 PM

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I'm not sure I'd want free healthcare. It eliminates competition for doctors, so who says they'll try as hard?
The UK still have private healthcare. If you were worried that the doctors wouldn't 'try as hard', you could always go for private healthcare. The National Health Service is here for everyone, so if someone who is so poor they can't even afford a meal for the night needs healthcare, they can have it. That's the point of it. If David Cameron wanted to use the NHS, heck, he could use it, although I doubt he would - he's got enough money to pay for the best healthcare he can get.

The NHS is fair. It's there for people who may not be able to afford it, as well as those who can. If anyone in America couldn't afford it, what would happen?
   
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Re: What the heck? - December 1st 2010, 09:37 PM

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The UK still have private healthcare. If you were worried that the doctors wouldn't 'try as hard', you could always go for private healthcare. The National Health Service is here for everyone, so if someone who is so poor they can't even afford a meal for the night needs healthcare, they can have it. That's the point of it. If David Cameron wanted to use the NHS, heck, he could use it, although I doubt he would - he's got enough money to pay for the best healthcare he can get.

The NHS is fair. It's there for people who may not be able to afford it, as well as those who can. If anyone in America couldn't afford it, what would happen?
David Cameron would obvy use the NHS, terrible press if he didn't!

& competition within doctors in the NHS is FEARCE... nearly 200 extra doctors compared to places for foundation training this year.


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Re: What the heck? - December 1st 2010, 11:04 PM

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Ok I am in the Uk , we get free (excluding cosmetic surjury etc)
But you have to pay elsewhere right? Is that fair if you are involved in an accident?
You pay taxes in USA etc , we pay taxes here and that is what funds the NHS (National Health Service)
We don't need medical insurance or even pay fees , we get it free , even people who hurt themselves on purpose.
Now , i'm not complaining , but I just though it wasn't fair for other countries to have to pay!
What do you think?
Nothing is free in this world. You pay for your health care through Taxation. Uk has one of the highest priced day to day living. You get taxed excessively by the government to pay for schooling and health care ect. Canada is the same way in the sense that we pay through taxes where as the US isn't taxed nearly as much however it will cost them out of their pocket to have heath care.

Personally I love knowing I can see a doctor anytime I want. Regardless of the price of living.

   
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Re: What the heck? - December 2nd 2010, 05:58 AM

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Silly person?? Moi? No I am statng Uk healthcare is just something we get here. Things atre free , the air is , the sea is , so don't be so miserable!
Healthcare is not free, you pay for it one way or another, or better put, the upper class pays for the burden. It's unfair to expect them to be shelling out because you can't pay for it.


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Re: What the heck? - December 2nd 2010, 09:57 AM

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David Cameron would obvy use the NHS, terrible press if he didn't!
Does he? I really can't imagine him using it when he has the money to go into private healthcare. As good as the NHS is, private healthcare would probably be better, and if I had the money I would use it.
   
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