TeenHelp
Support Forums Today's Posts

Get Advice Connect with TeenHelp Resources
HelpLINK Facebook     Twitter     Tumblr     Instagram    Hotlines    Safety Zone    Alternatives

You are not registered or have not logged in

Hello guest! (Not a guest? Log in above!)

As a guest on TeenHelp you are only able to use some of our site's features. By registering an account you will be able to enjoy unlimited access to our site, and will be able to:

  • Connect with thousands of teenagers worldwide by actively taking part in our Support Forums and Chat Room.
  • Find others with similar interests in our Social Groups.
  • Express yourself through our Blogs, Picture Albums and User Profiles.
  • And much much more!

Signing up is free, anonymous and will only take a few moments, so click here to register now!


Current Events and Debates For discussions and friendly debates about politics and current events, check out this forum.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  (#1 (permalink)) Old
Hdjdjdjduvieg Offline
Wandering Wayfarer
I've been here a while
********
 
Hdjdjdjduvieg's Avatar
 
Name: no

Posts: 1,127
Join Date: January 6th 2009

Israel. - February 23rd 2009, 03:41 AM

I know this'll probably be flooded with liberal protesters, but I'm looking to find other opinions, hopefully valid ones backed up with facts.

What is your opinion on the Israelis VS Palestinians situation?

Just so you know I am 100% behind Israel. My family has visisted (No, I am not Jewish) and it's a wonderful place. It's actually quite peaceful there despite popular belief. People are very kind and caring. There's hospitals that are taking Palestinian citizens and soldiers, as well as Israelis. There are coexistance schools set up that teach both Hebrew and Arabic to children. Everyone is completely civilized. It's a truly great place. So much technology and advancements have come from ther that people don't even realise. Cell phones, Motorola, Instant Messaging, the first non radiation cure to breast cancer, etc. The world wouldn't be the same without Israel. Not to mention they always have to deal with the dirty work of cleaning up terrorists, that no one else will do.


I love the name of honour more than I fear death.
   
  (#2 (permalink)) Old
udontno Offline
</3?
I can't get enough
*********
 
udontno's Avatar
 
Name: Amanda Kate
Age: 26
Gender: Female
Location: VA, USA

Posts: 3,039
Blog Entries: 24
Join Date: January 5th 2009

Re: Israel. - February 23rd 2009, 11:54 PM

To be honest, I think this conflict is one that will probably never be solved. When I was in eight grade, I was deeply interested in this subject and spent hours reading things on the internet. I read a very in depth book on the subject. I personally see them fighting over this land for years and years to come. I wish they could come to an agreement and as much as I want them to, I just don't see this happening.

The people of Israel were there first, but they'd left the area for so long and waltzed right back in like they owned the place. I think the Palestinian people have every right to be mad. I'd be upset if people came to my land because their ancestors had been there before us and they thought they could take it. However, creating the state of Israel is a good solution. They have to have a home and that is one place to put them, being as most people don't want them in their country. As for the Palestinians, I wish there was a way to get them to give up their claims to the land. I just don't know.


--A
   
  (#3 (permalink)) Old
Hyper Sonic Offline
Banned
I can't get enough
*********
 
Hyper Sonic's Avatar
 
Gender: Male
Location: England

Posts: 2,374
Blog Entries: 23
Join Date: January 5th 2009

Re: Israel. - February 24th 2009, 12:10 AM

I am also fully behind Israel. Admittedly the siting could have been better (and Amanda Kate, as far as I know only the bible says they were there before). They won't reach an agreement because Palestine demands unreasonable terms (the annihilation of the Israeli state and the Jews therein is hardly going to work).

It is as the joke goes:

Q: Why do reporters always report from Gaza and not Tel Aviv?
A: To save themselves: they know which direction the rockets are going!
   
  (#4 (permalink)) Old
udontno Offline
</3?
I can't get enough
*********
 
udontno's Avatar
 
Name: Amanda Kate
Age: 26
Gender: Female
Location: VA, USA

Posts: 3,039
Blog Entries: 24
Join Date: January 5th 2009

Re: Israel. - February 24th 2009, 12:43 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper Sonic View Post
I am also fully behind Israel. Admittedly the siting could have been better (and Amanda Kate, as far as I know only the bible says they were there before).
I'm sure if you were to ask one of them, they would say that their ancestors were there. So Bible and word of mouth as well.


--A
   
  (#5 (permalink)) Old
Hdjdjdjduvieg Offline
Wandering Wayfarer
I've been here a while
********
 
Hdjdjdjduvieg's Avatar
 
Name: no

Posts: 1,127
Join Date: January 6th 2009

Re: Israel. - February 24th 2009, 01:47 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by udontno View Post
To be honest, I think this conflict is one that will probably never be solved. When I was in eight grade, I was deeply interested in this subject and spent hours reading things on the internet. I read a very in depth book on the subject. I personally see them fighting over this land for years and years to come. I wish they could come to an agreement and as much as I want them to, I just don't see this happening.

The people of Israel were there first, but they'd left the area for so long and waltzed right back in like they owned the place. I think the Palestinian people have every right to be mad. I'd be upset if people came to my land because their ancestors had been there before us and they thought they could take it. However, creating the state of Israel is a good solution. They have to have a home and that is one place to put them, being as most people don't want them in their country. As for the Palestinians, I wish there was a way to get them to give up their claims to the land. I just don't know.
Well, the land was actually British owned. It was given to the Jewish people post Holocaust, so they didn't exactly waltz in. Not to mention they were willing to live in peace amound the Palestinians. The Palestinians were the ones who would not allow for this. But I do agree, this will never be solved until one side is completely eradicated, sadly enough.


I love the name of honour more than I fear death.
   
  (#6 (permalink)) Old
Gram Negative Offline
Student
Junior TeenHelper
****
 
Gram Negative's Avatar
 
Age: 33
Gender: Male

Posts: 219
Join Date: February 1st 2009

Re: Israel. - February 24th 2009, 01:59 AM

100% for Israel. I hate most of the Muslim/Arab countries because they are stuck in the Middle Ages. They hate gays, they do not want anyone non-Muslim having ANY power in that region and that is why they want Israel wiped off the map. They are basically like evangelical Christians.
  Send a message via AIM to Gram Negative  
  (#7 (permalink)) Old
udontno Offline
</3?
I can't get enough
*********
 
udontno's Avatar
 
Name: Amanda Kate
Age: 26
Gender: Female
Location: VA, USA

Posts: 3,039
Blog Entries: 24
Join Date: January 5th 2009

Re: Israel. - February 24th 2009, 02:06 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scout View Post
Well, the land was actually British owned. It was given to the Jewish people post Holocaust, so they didn't exactly waltz in. Not to mention they were willing to live in peace amound the Palestinians. The Palestinians were the ones who would not allow for this. But I do agree, this will never be solved until one side is completely eradicated, sadly enough.
Regardless, the Palestinians were there and the Israeli people took over in their opinion.


--A
   
  (#8 (permalink)) Old
Gram Negative Offline
Student
Junior TeenHelper
****
 
Gram Negative's Avatar
 
Age: 33
Gender: Male

Posts: 219
Join Date: February 1st 2009

Re: Israel. - February 24th 2009, 02:10 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by udontno View Post
Regardless, the Palestinians were there and the Israeli people took over in their opinion.
And who took over the Jews before that?
  Send a message via AIM to Gram Negative  
  (#9 (permalink)) Old
udontno Offline
</3?
I can't get enough
*********
 
udontno's Avatar
 
Name: Amanda Kate
Age: 26
Gender: Female
Location: VA, USA

Posts: 3,039
Blog Entries: 24
Join Date: January 5th 2009

Re: Israel. - February 24th 2009, 02:29 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gram Negative View Post
And who took over the Jews before that?
I can't say I know the answer to that Gram. I knew they were exiled out of Canaan, but I can't remember who did it. Moses led them out of Egypt... so?


--A
   
  (#10 (permalink)) Old
TigerTank77 Offline
Rage is the best anesthetic
I've been here a while
********
 
TigerTank77's Avatar
 
Name: Ben
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Location: NY

Posts: 1,534
Join Date: January 5th 2009

Re: Israel. - February 24th 2009, 02:45 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by udontno View Post
I can't say I know the answer to that Gram. I knew they were exiled out of Canaan, but I can't remember who did it. Moses led them out of Egypt... so?
Moses led them out of Egypt to Canaan, and they took over that area. Then I think it was the Assyrians who first kicked them out, but they took it back, only to then get taken over by the Babylonians, Greeks, Romans, Sassanian, and Byzantines. Despite the power changes, there has ALWAYS been a Jewish presence in Israel since the Canaanites were kicked out.


Often I lie wide awake, thinking of things I could make.
But I donít seem to have the parts to build them.
I am so scared of what will kill me in the end, for I am not prepared.
I hope I will get the chance to be someone, to be human.





  Send a message via AIM to TigerTank77 Send a message via MSN to TigerTank77 Send a message via Skype™ to TigerTank77 
  (#11 (permalink)) Old
Hyper Sonic Offline
Banned
I can't get enough
*********
 
Hyper Sonic's Avatar
 
Gender: Male
Location: England

Posts: 2,374
Blog Entries: 23
Join Date: January 5th 2009

Re: Israel. - February 24th 2009, 02:53 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerTank77 View Post
Moses led them out of Egypt to Canaan, and they took over that area. Then I think it was the Assyrians who first kicked them out, but they took it back, only to then get taken over by the Babylonians, Greeks, Romans, Sassanian, and Byzantines. Despite the power changes, there has ALWAYS been a Jewish presence in Israel since the Canaanites were kicked out.
Is there evidence to support this theory?
   
  (#12 (permalink)) Old
Blackwing Offline
I can't get enough
*********
 
Blackwing's Avatar
 
Name: Zack
Gender: Male
Location: Arizona(Usa)

Posts: 2,830
Blog Entries: 3
Join Date: January 7th 2009

Re: Israel. - February 24th 2009, 02:57 AM

The Bible.!


  Send a message via AIM to Blackwing  
  (#13 (permalink)) Old
Gram Negative Offline
Student
Junior TeenHelper
****
 
Gram Negative's Avatar
 
Age: 33
Gender: Male

Posts: 219
Join Date: February 1st 2009

Re: Israel. - February 24th 2009, 03:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper Sonic View Post
Is there evidence to support this theory?
The remains of the temple that sit under the Mosque in Jerusalem.

However, there is no evidence that Jews were ever in Egypt but they have had a constant presence there before the Muslims, Arabs, or Romans. They fought Romans before the Muslims too. So the Muslims shouldn't feel special when the Jews are fighting them.
  Send a message via AIM to Gram Negative  
  (#14 (permalink)) Old
Jack Offline
Member
I've been here a while
********
 
Jack's Avatar
 
Name: Jack
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Location: Kingston upon Hull/ Brighton, UK

Posts: 1,494
Join Date: January 5th 2009

Re: Israel. - February 24th 2009, 04:47 AM

100% behind Israel on this one. I can't really see many reasons not to be behind Israel, I think it's disgraceful the way so many people jumped on the "fuck Israel" bandwagon without even thinking about it just because the papers told them too and because they saw a picture of a burnt child's rag doll in a poignant pose or something similar.

"BUT OMGZ ISRAEL SUX LIEK COZ INOCANT PEEPS DIE IN WAR!!!11 LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL I KNOWZ THIS DUE TO MY LEARNINGZ!"
   
  (#15 (permalink)) Old
TigerTank77 Offline
Rage is the best anesthetic
I've been here a while
********
 
TigerTank77's Avatar
 
Name: Ben
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Location: NY

Posts: 1,534
Join Date: January 5th 2009

Re: Israel. - February 24th 2009, 01:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper Sonic View Post
Is there evidence to support this theory?
Every history book ever written by an author that is neither anti-semetic or a holocaust denier?

I'll admit the Egypt thing is a little short on facts, but the temple don't lie.


Often I lie wide awake, thinking of things I could make.
But I donít seem to have the parts to build them.
I am so scared of what will kill me in the end, for I am not prepared.
I hope I will get the chance to be someone, to be human.





  Send a message via AIM to TigerTank77 Send a message via MSN to TigerTank77 Send a message via Skype™ to TigerTank77 
  (#16 (permalink)) Old
Hyper Sonic Offline
Banned
I can't get enough
*********
 
Hyper Sonic's Avatar
 
Gender: Male
Location: England

Posts: 2,374
Blog Entries: 23
Join Date: January 5th 2009

Re: Israel. - February 24th 2009, 01:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gram Negative View Post
The remains of the temple that sit under the Mosque in Jerusalem.

However, there is no evidence that Jews were ever in Egypt but they have had a constant presence there before the Muslims, Arabs, or Romans. They fought Romans before the Muslims too. So the Muslims shouldn't feel special when the Jews are fighting them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerTank77 View Post
Every history book ever written by an author that is neither anti-semetic or a holocaust denier?

I'll admit the Egypt thing is a little short on facts, but the temple don't lie.
Okiedoke, thanks for telling me. I genuinely didn't know that
   
  (#17 (permalink)) Old
sturmeskind Offline
formally known as "Okta"
Average Joe
***
 
sturmeskind's Avatar
 
Name: Lisa
Age: 32
Gender: Squid
Location: in the closet, Bavaria, Germany

Posts: 157
Join Date: January 11th 2009

Re: Israel. - February 24th 2009, 02:23 PM

I try to avoid supporting any of the parties involved in this conflict, if only because I don't have enough information and I've certainly never been there or spoken to people who are actually involved. I don't really trust the media either...
I do however know a man who's lived most of his life in Israel and who actually was near Gaza in December. From what he told me and what I read myself, I've put together what I think about the situation.

As long as the Hamas controls Gaza, there won't be any peace. It is a very, very dangerous radically Islamist terror organisation which is manipulating even young children.
In the recent elections in Israel, the party of the Russian immigrant Lieberman gained 15 seats in the Knesset. This party is very right-wing and against all Arabs living in Israel. Especially young people support these politics. I strongly doubt that this is going to help creating peace.
From what my friend told me I also got the impression that even if both sides want peace, they cannot accept the conditions of the other. And so there's little communication possible.
   
  (#18 (permalink)) Old
Hdjdjdjduvieg Offline
Wandering Wayfarer
I've been here a while
********
 
Hdjdjdjduvieg's Avatar
 
Name: no

Posts: 1,127
Join Date: January 6th 2009

Re: Israel. - February 25th 2009, 12:56 AM

Glad to see there's many Israel supporters.

But, I must point out though people can say it's all the Hamas and it shouldn't be war since it's only them and innocent civilians bladiblah... well, just remember. It was those 'innocent civilians' that elected Hamas into power. Many Palestinian civilians are just as guilty as the terrorists.


I love the name of honour more than I fear death.
   
  (#19 (permalink)) Old
Acheron Offline
El Tigre
I can't get enough
*********
 
Acheron's Avatar
 
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Location: Laying traps for troubadours

Posts: 2,096
Blog Entries: 6
Join Date: January 6th 2009

Re: Israel. - February 25th 2009, 12:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scout View Post
But, I must point out though people can say it's all the Hamas and it shouldn't be war since it's only them and innocent civilians bladiblah... well, just remember. It was those 'innocent civilians' that elected Hamas into power. Many Palestinian civilians are just as guilty as the terrorists.
I would be very careful with that argument if I were you. After all, earlier this month the Israelis elected a coalition government lead by Binyamin Netanyahu, who has traditionally taken a very aggressive line on the Israel-Palestine conflict, and backed by Avigdor Lieberman's Yisrael Beiteinu party, who make Netanyahu look like Gandhi. So suicide bombings and rocket attacks on Israeli civilians must be right, right?
   
  (#20 (permalink)) Old
Hdjdjdjduvieg Offline
Wandering Wayfarer
I've been here a while
********
 
Hdjdjdjduvieg's Avatar
 
Name: no

Posts: 1,127
Join Date: January 6th 2009

Re: Israel. - February 25th 2009, 07:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acheron View Post
So suicide bombings and rocket attacks on Israeli civilians must be right, right?
That is not a valid point at all. Give me one instance of a SUICIDE bombing or targetted rocket attack onto Palestinian civilians by the Israeli government. Israel reserves the right to take an aggressive attack, anyways. Since when is it not a declaration of war for a government of a state to send thousands of rockets into your country? Never in history has it been that a country is not allowed to protect itself, nothing should be different for Israel. The Hamas want war, they will get beat. Israel does not have to make sure they're equal in arms. The object of war is to win. If Mexico sent thousands of rockets into the US of A right now, you'd better bet there'd be hard, justified rebuttle. It's no different what-so-ever.


I love the name of honour more than I fear death.
   
  (#21 (permalink)) Old
Acheron Offline
El Tigre
I can't get enough
*********
 
Acheron's Avatar
 
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Location: Laying traps for troubadours

Posts: 2,096
Blog Entries: 6
Join Date: January 6th 2009

Re: Israel. - February 25th 2009, 07:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scout View Post
That is not a valid point at all. Give me one instance of a SUICIDE bombing or targetted rocket attack onto Palestinian civilians by the Israeli government. Israel reserves the right to take an aggressive attack, anyways. Since when is it not a declaration of war for a government of a state to send thousands of rockets into your country? Never in history has it been that a country is not allowed to protect itself, nothing should be different for Israel. The Hamas want war, they will get beat. Israel does not have to make sure they're equal in arms. The object of war is to win. If Mexico sent thousands of rockets into the US of A right now, you'd better bet there'd be hard, justified rebuttle. It's no different what-so-ever.
And now you're totally misrepresenting my argument. I argued that condoning the killing of Palestinian civilians for electing Hamas is no different to condoning the killing of Israeli civilians for electing Netanyahu and Lieberman. I agree that Israel has the right to defend itself, I was just pointing out how terrible your argument was.

But if you want examples of Israeli attacks on civilians, I'll give you examples of Israeli attacks on civilians.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...srael-death-un

Israeli army shells a UN school full of civilians, killing dozens, despite the UN telling the Israelis that it was a UN building.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/...ers/index.html

Israeli air force bombs a clearly marked UN observation post, despite the UN telling them about the post both before and during the attack.

And let's not forget how the latest round of shooting got started. This isn't quite an example of Israel gallantly defending itself from unprovoked rocket attacks. It was Israel that broke the most recent ceasefire, leading to the latest flareup.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008...hepalestinians

Last edited by Acheron; February 25th 2009 at 08:20 PM.
   
  (#22 (permalink)) Old
Gram Negative Offline
Student
Junior TeenHelper
****
 
Gram Negative's Avatar
 
Age: 33
Gender: Male

Posts: 219
Join Date: February 1st 2009

Re: Israel. - February 25th 2009, 11:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acheron View Post
And let's not forget how the latest round of shooting got started. This isn't quite an example of Israel gallantly defending itself from unprovoked rocket attacks. It was Israel that broke the most recent ceasefire, leading to the latest flareup.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008...hepalestinians
They specifically killed Hamas gunmen. Hamas would gladly kill 6 Israeli civilians. F#ck Hamas that is still building tunnels. Any culture that teaches their kids that Jews are descendants of apes and pigs... can go to hell.

Last edited by Gram Negative; February 26th 2009 at 12:06 AM.
  Send a message via AIM to Gram Negative  
  (#23 (permalink)) Old
Titanium Offline
Member
Welcome me, I'm new!
*
 
Titanium's Avatar
 
Gender: Male
Location: UK

Posts: 15
Join Date: February 25th 2009

Re: Israel. - February 26th 2009, 12:08 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gram Negative View Post
100% for Israel. I hate most of the Muslim/Arab countries because they are stuck in the Middle Ages. They hate gays, they do not want anyone non-Muslim having ANY power in that region and that is why they want Israel wiped off the map. They are basically like evangelical Christians.
Not all Arabs! Some are decent people ... some places are backwards but is that a reason to bomb them !

War is never justified. War costs lives.

I am not on anyone's side. I am ashamed at peoples' inability to be able to agree on something around a table and spare families the agony and pain that they will have to endure .
   
  (#24 (permalink)) Old
Jack Offline
Member
I've been here a while
********
 
Jack's Avatar
 
Name: Jack
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Location: Kingston upon Hull/ Brighton, UK

Posts: 1,494
Join Date: January 5th 2009

Re: Israel. - February 26th 2009, 12:20 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Titanium View Post
War is never justified. War costs lives.
Really? Wars solve conflicts which could not be resolved any other way. Violence has resolved more conflicts than any other method.

What if one side is committing genocide? Would not war be justified in order to save more lives than would be lost in the war?

Is not WWII justified by all the technological advances caused by it and the era of relative peace that it ushered in for a while?

The ends justify the means as far as I'm concerned.
   
  (#25 (permalink)) Old
Gram Negative Offline
Student
Junior TeenHelper
****
 
Gram Negative's Avatar
 
Age: 33
Gender: Male

Posts: 219
Join Date: February 1st 2009

Re: Israel. - February 26th 2009, 01:37 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Titanium View Post
Not all Arabs! Some are decent people ... some places are backwards but is that a reason to bomb them !

War is never justified. War costs lives.

I am not on anyone's side. I am ashamed at peoples' inability to be able to agree on something around a table and spare families the agony and pain that they will have to endure .
Well yes not all Arabs but currently most of the Muslim/Arab world is living in the Middle Ages in terms of morals, culture, human rights, technology, etc.
  Send a message via AIM to Gram Negative  
  (#26 (permalink)) Old
sushi_error Offline
Member
Regular TeenHelper
*****
 
sushi_error's Avatar
 
Age: 27
Gender: Female
Location: US

Posts: 443
Join Date: January 6th 2009

Re: Israel. - February 26th 2009, 01:53 AM

I'm neutral on this issue, however, I do not support the recent Israeli strikes on Gaza. It is a fact that Palestinians continue to live in poverty each day and are not allowed to move freely. Palestinian children are not receiving the health care they desperately need and it was quite clear during the recent strikes that Palestinians do not have adequate medical care. Basically, most Palestinians are living quite below the poverty line and it is a real shame. Nevertheless, I think Hamas is holding the Palestinian people back from freedom and change needs to happen. However, I doubt that a solution will come soon as this conflict has been going on for over four decades. There are a number of factors preventing a peace agreement from being established.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gram Negative
Well yes not all Arabs but currently most of the Muslim/Arab world is living in the Middle Ages in terms of morals, culture, human rights, technology, etc.
I disagree with your statement. What exactly are you basing your claim on? Honestly, you can easily make a similar case in other parts of the world, besides the Middle East. There are many countries outside of the Middle East that also commit tons and tons of human rights violations. As for technology, nations like Saudi Arabia, UAE continue to surpass many nations around the world with their technology and rapid grobalization.


Check out my blog: White-Out Blots

How did Mandela get the will to surpass the everyday,
When injustice had him caged and trapped in every way,
How did Ghandi ever withstand the hunger strikes and all,
Didn't do it to gain power or money if I recall,
It's to give; I guess I'll pass it on

- Take a Minute, K'naan
   
  (#27 (permalink)) Old
Gram Negative Offline
Student
Junior TeenHelper
****
 
Gram Negative's Avatar
 
Age: 33
Gender: Male

Posts: 219
Join Date: February 1st 2009

Re: Israel. - February 26th 2009, 04:00 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sushi_error View Post

I disagree with your statement. What exactly are you basing your claim on? Honestly, you can easily make a similar case in other parts of the world, besides the Middle East. There are many countries outside of the Middle East that also commit tons and tons of human rights violations. As for technology, nations like Saudi Arabia, UAE continue to surpass many nations around the world with their technology and rapid grobalization.
Yes there are other nations like that but overall the majority of an entire culture is still 100% backwards. That's an ENTIRE region that covers a lot of the world.

UAE and Saudi Arabia depend 100% on oil. Those countries having a lot of trouble right now too. Do they allow churches to display the cross in UAE? NO. Don't you love that freedom? It's seeping out of them, ain't it? Oh and you can't proselytize any other religions in a lot of Muslim countries. It's funny how a lot of Brits are angry over Muslims building that huge Mosque over there... considering the fact that the countries from which those Muslims came from wouldn't allow ANY of that freedom of religion.

The majority of Muslim countries are still unfriendly to gays, other religions, science, evolution, women's rights, still plenty of racism, you name it. Oh and not to mention FREE SPEECH. You remember all those damn riots over those cartoons in almost every Muslim country? Talk about fundamentalists...

Why do you think Jews have always been kept in 2nd class after the Muslims took them over? When Muslims take over a region that's it... They will make sure that Muslims have the most rights. You really should read up more about the UAE... that place is f#cked up. Read up on their "slave labor" too. Those countries are basically like Europe was.... a thousand years ago. They HATE western culture. Take a look at Iran trying to prevent any Western influence in their media, apparel. They got freaking police forcing women to cover their hair. Would you like someone telling you that you can't show your hair? Or that you HAVE to have a male relative escort you everywhere?

How about them honor killings? You like them? They even happen in America too. We really need to force these people to abandon their ways.

Don't believe me? Go to BBC. By the way, there was a user on here from Syria and she told me that parts of the BBC website were BLOCKED. LOL Specifically the parts about the Israel and Palestine conflict. Freedom... they hate it. The funny thing about that is that I couldn't really find anything 100% pro Israeli on the BBC page... It was very impartial but I get Syria wants it to be 100% pro Muslim.

Last edited by Gram Negative; February 26th 2009 at 04:11 AM.
  Send a message via AIM to Gram Negative  
  (#28 (permalink)) Old
sushi_error Offline
Member
Regular TeenHelper
*****
 
sushi_error's Avatar
 
Age: 27
Gender: Female
Location: US

Posts: 443
Join Date: January 6th 2009

Re: Israel. - February 26th 2009, 08:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gram Negative
Yes there are other nations like that but overall the majority of an entire culture is still 100% backwards. That's an ENTIRE region that covers a lot of the world.
Backwards? I disagree. Why? just because they have a different set of values and belief system as you and I, does not mean they are living in the caves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by "Gram Negative
UAE and Saudi Arabia depend 100% on oil. Those countries having a lot of trouble right now too. Do they allow churches to display the cross in UAE? NO. Don't you love that freedom? It's seeping out of them, ain't it? Oh and you can't proselytize any other religions in a lot of Muslim countries. It's funny how a lot of Brits are angry over Muslims building that huge Mosque over there... considering the fact that the countries from which those Muslims came from wouldn't allow ANY of that freedom of religion.
Freedom of religion is an issue anywhere. Granted, it tends to be a bigger issue in the some of the Middle East than in other places. In countries like Lebanon, Syria, there is definitely more religious freedom than in Saudi Arabia. If anything, half of the Lebanese population are Christian and the country recently elected a Maronite Catholic as president.

Quote:
Originally Posted by "Gram Negative
The majority of Muslim countries are still unfriendly to gays, other religions, science, evolution, women's rights, still plenty of racism, you name it. Oh and not to mention FREE SPEECH. You remember all those damn riots over those cartoons in almost every Muslim country? Talk about fundamentalists...
You are forgetting that many other religions such as Christianity are against homosexuals, evolution, etc. And a number of Christian fundamentalists groups take their beliefs to a higher level, discriminating any person who is homosexual, etc. Second, Muslims have every single right to speak out against those cartoons. If you know anything about Islam, you will know that the Qu'ran forbids any pictures, statues of Mohammed. My only problem with a number of those riots is the hatred and racism that spewed. Otherwise, they have a right to defend their religion in cases like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by "Gram Negative
Why do you think Jews have always been kept in 2nd class after the Muslims took them over? When Muslims take over a region that's it... They will make sure that Muslims have the most rights. You really should read up more about the UAE... that place is f#cked up. Read up on their "slave labor" too. Those countries are basically like Europe was.... a thousand years ago. They HATE western culture. Take a look at Iran trying to prevent any Western influence in their media, apparel. They got freaking police forcing women to cover their hair. Would you like someone telling you that you can't show your hair? Or that you HAVE to have a male relative escort you everywhere?
Whether or not we agree with their values/belief system, we have to learn to respect it. Honestly, do you think I like hearing about the way women are treated in a number of Middle Eastern nations? Heck no. I am absolutely appalled by the notion that many young Yemeni girls are forced into marriage. However, much of what you are saying is basically cultural values that we must respect and abide to when we visit a number of those countries. We may or may not agree with it, but it is something that we need to understand. At the same time, I think all Middle Eastern governments need to address a number of human rights issues ASAP. Ultimately, it is a totally different culture that we cannot be ignorant of and make quick assumptions without knowing why something is the way it is.


Check out my blog: White-Out Blots

How did Mandela get the will to surpass the everyday,
When injustice had him caged and trapped in every way,
How did Ghandi ever withstand the hunger strikes and all,
Didn't do it to gain power or money if I recall,
It's to give; I guess I'll pass it on

- Take a Minute, K'naan
   
  (#29 (permalink)) Old
Gram Negative Offline
Student
Junior TeenHelper
****
 
Gram Negative's Avatar
 
Age: 33
Gender: Male

Posts: 219
Join Date: February 1st 2009

Re: Israel. - February 26th 2009, 11:40 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sushi_error View Post
Backwards? I disagree. Why? just because they have a different set of values and belief system as you and I, does not mean they are living in the caves.
Different set of values? You think killing your daughter after she is raped is a value?




Quote:
Originally Posted by sushi_error View Post
Freedom of religion is an issue anywhere. Granted, it tends to be a bigger issue in the some of the Middle East than in other places. In countries like Lebanon, Syria, there is definitely more religious freedom than in Saudi Arabia. If anything, half of the Lebanese population are Christian and the country recently elected a Maronite Catholic as president.
And that Christian population is currently being pushed around. You do realize that the Shias are exterminating the ruling government and Syria is helping them. Who the hell do you think killed Hariri?


Quote:
Originally Posted by sushi_error View Post
You are forgetting that many other religions such as Christianity are against homosexuals, evolution, etc. And a number of Christian fundamentalists groups take their beliefs to a higher level, discriminating any person who is homosexual, etc.
Are they killing them for that?

And as for evolution they still haven't been able to ban teaching it. And I hate them as much as I hate the Muslims. I HATE evangelicals as much as I hate Osama Bin Laden. The good thing about the Christians is that they aren't blowing up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sushi_error View Post
Second, Muslims have every single right to speak out against those cartoons. If you know anything about Islam, you will know that the Qu'ran forbids any pictures, statues of Mohammed. My only problem with a number of those riots is the hatred and racism that spewed. Otherwise, they have a right to defend their religion in cases like that.
Yes they have a right to speak out against it. But you do realize that those countries literally want the artists KILLED? They think it should be against the law to do that. That ain't freedom of speech, that dictatorship.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sushi_error View Post
Whether or not we agree with their values/belief system, we have to learn to respect it. Honestly, do you think I like hearing about the way women are treated in a number of Middle Eastern nations? Heck no. I am absolutely appalled by the notion that many young Yemeni girls are forced into marriage. However, much of what you are saying is basically cultural values that we must respect and abide to when we visit a number of those countries. We may or may not agree with it, but it is something that we need to understand.
That doesn't matter because our culture is better. We are progressive, they are still stuck in the old traditions. Do you hate progress or something.

Oh and those people would love to force you to do the same things so you better think about respecting that... A lot of Muslims would love to see you convert.

On a side note... remember those Muslim bombers in England... most of them were natural born in England, correct? What grievances did they have? Seems to me they were just as radical as the Muslims in Muslim countries. The difference is that they are in England and they would love to convert everyone over there. And I do think the building of that huge Mosque should be stopped. They will be allowed to build it when other Muslim countries start being psychotic nutcases.

Sorry but some things are BETTER. We are BETTER than they are. Freedom of religion is BETTER than oppression. Women's rights are BETTER than oppression. Gay rights are BETTER. Freedom of Speech is BETTER than censorship. Do you disagree?

You better say the same thing about the Nazis too. You are literally defending people that HATE you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sushi_error View Post
At the same time, I think all Middle Eastern governments need to address a number of human rights issues ASAP. Ultimately, it is a totally different culture that we cannot be ignorant of and make quick assumptions without knowing why something is the way it is.
We do know the way it is. It is backwards.
  Send a message via AIM to Gram Negative  
  (#30 (permalink)) Old
Hyper Sonic Offline
Banned
I can't get enough
*********
 
Hyper Sonic's Avatar
 
Gender: Male
Location: England

Posts: 2,374
Blog Entries: 23
Join Date: January 5th 2009

Re: Israel. - February 27th 2009, 12:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sushi_error View Post
Second, Muslims have every single right to speak out against those cartoons. If you know anything about Islam, you will know that the Qu'ran forbids any pictures, statues of Mohammed. My only problem with a number of those riots is the hatred and racism that spewed. Otherwise, they have a right to defend their religion in cases like that.
No, they don't get the right to riot. They also, in their opinion, had the right to fly two planes into a certain NYC landmark which is no longer around and into a military installation. All on one day. Do you really respect the people behind that?


Quote:
Whether or not we agree with their values/belief system, we have to learn to respect it.
Hitler believed Jews were worse than animals and should be exterminated. Stalin distrusted anyone of a minority. Should we really respect such beliefs?

Last edited by Hyper Sonic; February 27th 2009 at 01:01 AM. Reason: broken tag xD
   
  (#31 (permalink)) Old
A Offline
Member
Not a n00b
**
 
A's Avatar
 

Posts: 97
Join Date: January 5th 2009

Re: Israel. - February 27th 2009, 04:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sushi_error View Post
Backwards? I disagree. Why? just because they have a different set of values and belief system as you and I, does not mean they are living in the caves.
So, is it that every civilisation must be respected just because it is different? Does this then mean that Incas' practice of human sacrifice was okay? Furthermore, if they still existed today, would it still be okay today? Those were their values and part of their belief system. What right have the people of the West to spread freedom and human rights? Shocking.

Just because someone's religion commands it does not mean it should not be crushed if it's undemocratic and a threat to human rights. Which many things in Islam are.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sushi_error View Post
Freedom of religion is an issue anywhere. Granted, it tends to be a bigger issue in the some of the Middle East than in other places. In countries like Lebanon, Syria, there is definitely more religious freedom than in Saudi Arabia. If anything, half of the Lebanese population are Christian and the country recently elected a Maronite Catholic as president.
"Tends"? It is. Always. Look at the laws of the countries you talk about, look at any Muslim country. The oppressive regime and complete lack of civil rights and political freedoms is a non-relenting pattern. How is freedom of religion a particular issue in any Western country? No one is forced to follow any religion or forced not to, unless the religion happens to be detrimental to others in society.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sushi_error View Post
You are forgetting that many other religions such as Christianity are against homosexuals, evolution, etc. And a number of Christian fundamentalists groups take their beliefs to a higher level, discriminating any person who is homosexual, etc.
Do not confuse Christian fundamentalists with Muslims who follow Islam to the letter. In Muslim countries, anyone who is against Islam is persecuted or suppressed. Homosexuals are killed, victims of rape stoned by vigilantes, women beaten and the perpetrators encouraged. This all goes on. The United Kingdom is a "Protestant" country, but people are free to be gay - it even instituted civil unions. Women are protected by legislation which guarantees them equality and rape victims are offered counsel. Never, ever compare a regime where the sharia is used as law to a country where Christian fundamentalists exist. Christian fundamentalists as a group have no real political power in any country where they exist, they've even been banned from certain countries where Christianity is prevalent (e.g., the United Kingdom's ban on the Westboro Baptist Church's entry to the United Kingdom).

Quote:
Originally Posted by sushi_error View Post
Second, Muslims have every single right to speak out against those cartoons. If you know anything about Islam, you will know that the Qu'ran forbids any pictures, statues of Mohammed. My only problem with a number of those riots is the hatred and racism that spewed. Otherwise, they have a right to defend their religion in cases like that.
In the Bible, it says that if a priest's daughter "plays the whore" she should be burnt to death. It also presents the mutilation of prostitutes as justified. But no fundamentalist Christians seem to do those, because they impinge so severely on other people's freedom of choice. Whilst Muslims should have the right to say they don't like the Jyllands-Posten (Danish newspaper which published the cartoons) for drawing Muhammed, it should never be illegal to draw Muhammed. The Jyllands-Posten, and everyone, should have the right to offend. Also, Muhammed was a paedophile and a tyrant - he's not a very good role model for Muslims to follow. All Muslims must accept that not everyone respects their religion, and/or the Prophet Muhammed, like the hugely vast majority of Christians do with regard to disrespect of Christian teaching. I find the following quote to be very illustrative of the issue:

"I do not seek to offend religious sentiment, but I will not submit to tyranny. Demanding that people who do not accept Muhammad’s teachings should refrain from drawing him is not a request for respect but a demand for submission."
- Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Quote:
Originally Posted by sushi_error View Post
Whether or not we agree with their values/belief system, we have to learn to respect it. Honestly, do you think I like hearing about the way women are treated in a number of Middle Eastern nations? Heck no. I am absolutely appalled by the notion that many young Yemeni girls are forced into marriage. However, much of what you are saying is basically cultural values that we must respect and abide to when we visit a number of those countries. We may or may not agree with it, but it is something that we need to understand. At the same time, I think all Middle Eastern governments need to address a number of human rights issues ASAP. Ultimately, it is a totally different culture that we cannot be ignorant of and make quick assumptions without knowing why something is the way it is.
I utterly refuse to respect, condone or tolerate any values or any belief system which bans women from driving (and subjugates them in general); has any kind of penalty for homosexuality; bans alcohol and bans public acts of intimacy such as embrace or kissing. The list goes on. If a religion community commanded beheading in the United States, would they have to be respected? Why do you think it's so important to respect beliefs which are backward? And they are backward, it's been proven that the best societies are built upon equality. Societies which do not properly respect equality or human rights fail.

You have to stop thinking that it's your duty to respect everyone just because they're different, respect people if their difference doesn't hurt people - but don't if it causes the misery of millions. And Islamic society does, every second of every day.
   
  (#32 (permalink)) Old
Hdjdjdjduvieg Offline
Wandering Wayfarer
I've been here a while
********
 
Hdjdjdjduvieg's Avatar
 
Name: no

Posts: 1,127
Join Date: January 6th 2009

Re: Israel. - February 27th 2009, 08:47 PM

What a beautiful debate. I'd throw my two cents in, but a few people have already covered it.

Just in responce to the whole "They have a right to riot" thing...
A quote is indeed necessary here. "Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins." They have NO right to kill innocent people especially over a cartoon. That is wrong. There is no justifucation for this.

That is a backwards culture, there is no denying it. No, not all muslims are like that. But those countries and cultures are.


I love the name of honour more than I fear death.
   
  (#33 (permalink)) Old
Hyper Sonic Offline
Banned
I can't get enough
*********
 
Hyper Sonic's Avatar
 
Gender: Male
Location: England

Posts: 2,374
Blog Entries: 23
Join Date: January 5th 2009

Re: Israel. - February 27th 2009, 08:53 PM

If Israel's neighbours wanted to annex her land then they should engage her in a war. A proper war, fought under the Geneva Convention. However they no they have no hope of winning so they don't and use cowardly acts of war.
   
  (#34 (permalink)) Old
sushi_error Offline
Member
Regular TeenHelper
*****
 
sushi_error's Avatar
 
Age: 27
Gender: Female
Location: US

Posts: 443
Join Date: January 6th 2009

Re: Israel. - February 28th 2009, 04:23 PM

Let me get this clear: I do not support ANY acts of terror.

My point is I think we strongly need to look and examine every culture before we jump to conclusions or make any judgments. We all agree that Muslims have every single right to protest against those cartoons and other things that go against their religion. However, I did clearly state in my post above that I think it is absolutely wrong when these riots turn into threats against other cultures, religions, etc. and unfortunately violence against other groups. My point is: they have the right to protest, however, their riots should not cross the lines of hatred and/or violence towards other people with different opinions.

Whether or not we agree with their culture/belief system, we need to learn more about it and make our own judgments. For instance, we should ask ourselves whether or not their values are really based on the true teachings of Islam or their own interpretation? Or why do women have to cover their hair with a hijab or even fully clothe themselves with a burqa (sp)? I REALLY hope that governments in Saudi Arabia, UAE, etc. realize they are committing human rights violations by preventing women from having more freedom, etc. I hope the majority of Muslim countries move toward democracy and more freedom for their people. I don't think it is fair the way women are treated, etc. I really hope I cleared up any confusion. I just want everyone here to understand that I do not support ANY kind of human oppression. It just irks me that a lot of people tend to have an uneducated view of all Muslims and those individuals do not try to understand more about Muslims or their cultures.


Check out my blog: White-Out Blots

How did Mandela get the will to surpass the everyday,
When injustice had him caged and trapped in every way,
How did Ghandi ever withstand the hunger strikes and all,
Didn't do it to gain power or money if I recall,
It's to give; I guess I'll pass it on

- Take a Minute, K'naan

Last edited by sushi_error; February 28th 2009 at 04:43 PM.
   
  (#35 (permalink)) Old
Gram Negative Offline
Student
Junior TeenHelper
****
 
Gram Negative's Avatar
 
Age: 33
Gender: Male

Posts: 219
Join Date: February 1st 2009

Re: Israel. - February 28th 2009, 05:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sushi_error View Post
It just irks me that a lot of people tend to have an uneducated view of all Muslims and those individuals do not try to understand more about Muslims or their cultures.
Ummm I've read the Quran, I've studied Middle Eastern history. Fact still remains those countries are backwards and I have as much as respect for them as for Christian Evangelicals.

Last edited by Gram Negative; February 28th 2009 at 05:22 PM.
  Send a message via AIM to Gram Negative  
  (#36 (permalink)) Old
sushi_error Offline
Member
Regular TeenHelper
*****
 
sushi_error's Avatar
 
Age: 27
Gender: Female
Location: US

Posts: 443
Join Date: January 6th 2009

Re: Israel. - February 28th 2009, 06:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gram Negative View Post
Ummm I've read the Quran, I've studied Middle Eastern history. Fact still remains those countries are backwards and I have as much as respect for them as for Christian Evangelicals.
That was not directed to you or anyone, it was just a general statement. Those cultures hold onto their beliefs strongly, however, it is sometimes their interpretation of the Qu'ran that prevents them from moving forward. I respect all Muslims as well as their own values/belief, but I do worry about Muslim fundamentalists.


Check out my blog: White-Out Blots

How did Mandela get the will to surpass the everyday,
When injustice had him caged and trapped in every way,
How did Ghandi ever withstand the hunger strikes and all,
Didn't do it to gain power or money if I recall,
It's to give; I guess I'll pass it on

- Take a Minute, K'naan
   
  (#37 (permalink)) Old
Hdjdjdjduvieg Offline
Wandering Wayfarer
I've been here a while
********
 
Hdjdjdjduvieg's Avatar
 
Name: no

Posts: 1,127
Join Date: January 6th 2009

Re: Israel. - March 1st 2009, 03:30 AM

As much as I'd like to respect other cultures, I cannot respect one that treats women like subhumans, freely murders homosexuals, and other 'undesireables' as well as straps suicide belts to their 4-year-old children, proud when they die to kill a Jew. There is nothing worth respecting there.


I love the name of honour more than I fear death.
   
  (#38 (permalink)) Old
Sox Offline
Member
Welcome me, I'm new!
*
 
Sox's Avatar
 
Name: Beth
Age: 26
Gender: Female
Location: Canada

Posts: 33
Join Date: January 12th 2009

Re: Israel. - March 1st 2009, 05:40 AM

I think to many people are saying things when they don't know enough about the issue. I'll be the first to say i don't and could not know much about this.
however..
As in about all situations like this, it's not black and white.
israel are not the 'goodies' and palestine are not the 'baddies'
Hamas and the palestine government and people are seperate enitities.
the thing is, while im definetly not pro terrorist organization.. israel has been able to get away with alot; and while they were backed into a corner, killing innocent people, no matter what the ratio of 'theres to ares' so to speak, is never and will never be morally justifiable.
   
  (#39 (permalink)) Old
A Offline
Member
Not a n00b
**
 
A's Avatar
 

Posts: 97
Join Date: January 5th 2009

Re: Israel. - March 1st 2009, 11:57 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sox View Post
Hamas and the palestine government and people are seperate enitities.
Hamas is/was the government of Gaza (only de facto the leading party now). It was democratically elected as the Gaza Strip's leader, against Fatah. So attacking the Gaza Strip was attacking the territory of Hamas, it makes perfect sense.
   
  (#40 (permalink)) Old
sushi_error Offline
Member
Regular TeenHelper
*****
 
sushi_error's Avatar
 
Age: 27
Gender: Female
Location: US

Posts: 443
Join Date: January 6th 2009

Re: Israel. - March 1st 2009, 03:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scout View Post
As much as I'd like to respect other cultures, I cannot respect one that treats women like subhumans, freely murders homosexuals, and other 'undesireables' as well as straps suicide belts to their 4-year-old children, proud when they die to kill a Jew. There is nothing worth respecting there.
I feel the same way, but I think there is some good in a lot of Middle Eastern cultures (not all, but some). A lot of those things tend to be caused by governments and usually, their strict interpretation of Islam. It's definitely not a universal belief amongst all of their citizens, I'm sure.

Back to the actual topic, I thought there was a peace agreement in place? What happened to it?


Check out my blog: White-Out Blots

How did Mandela get the will to surpass the everyday,
When injustice had him caged and trapped in every way,
How did Ghandi ever withstand the hunger strikes and all,
Didn't do it to gain power or money if I recall,
It's to give; I guess I'll pass it on

- Take a Minute, K'naan
   
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Tags
israel

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




All material copyright ©1998-2019, TeenHelp.
Terms | Legal | Privacy | Conduct | Complaints

Powered by vBulletin®.
Copyright ©2000-2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search engine optimization by vBSEO.
Theme developed in association with vBStyles.