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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
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WikiLeaks - December 4th 2010, 09:08 PM

WikiLeaks have been in the news a lot lately and I haven't seen it mentioned around here. If there is a thread I missed feel free to close this.

Recently WikiLeaks have leaked a bunch of US diplomatic secret messages called cables and in total have 250000 cables to leak and are working through them.

Here is info on all the leaks so far.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11858990

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-11906216
Quote:
The Main Leaks So Far
  • Fears that terrorists may acquire Pakistani nuclear material
  • Several Arab leaders urged attack on Iran over nuclear issue
  • US instructs spying on key UN officials
  • China's changing relationship with North Korea
  • Yemen approved US strikes on militants
  • Personal and embarrassing comments on world leaders
  • Afghan leader Hamid Karzai freed dangerous detainees
  • Russia is a "virtual mafia state" with widespread corruption and bribery
  • Afghan President Hamid Karzai is "paranoid and weak"
  • Comments on the extent of alleged corruption in Afghanistan
I was just wondering everyone's thoughts on the info leaked and on WikiLeaks in general and thought this may be an interesting topic.
Do you think the founder of WikiLeaks should be arrested for the leaks?
There is currently a warrant for his arrest from multiple countries.
   
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Re: WikiLeaks - December 4th 2010, 09:40 PM

No. In this day and age, nothing remains secret forever. The internet makes sure of that.

I've read some of them and I've enjoyed finding out things from them. It's a mistake on the US government's behalf, there shouldn't be any legal action taken. They should be more careful if they don't want people to see their bitching.




   
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Re: WikiLeaks - December 4th 2010, 10:14 PM

Even though Julian Assange does seem to be a bit of a douchebag (personality-wise), you got to respect someone who can cause so much chaos. It's beautiful, really.

And the arrest warrants are for things entirely unrelated to the information leaks. I don't think that he should be punished for revealing secrets. Raping/sexually assaulting a woman should be held against him though, if he really did.


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Re: WikiLeaks - December 5th 2010, 12:05 AM

Wikileaks did have help from an Army soldier.


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Re: WikiLeaks - December 7th 2010, 04:14 PM

The cases against him are just lies IMO. They realised how easy it is to accuse a man of rape and soil his reputation, so they took the cheapest shot they could.
The truth needs to be told. if the US is doing stuff they're not proud of, and don't feel they want the public (Who they are meant to serve) to know about, they shouldn't be doing it. We need to know.
   
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Re: WikiLeaks - December 7th 2010, 04:35 PM

Yeah, after looking into this more, the accusations of rape and such are rather suspiciously timed.

What I love is how PayPal and Amazon have removed their support and backing of WikiLeaks. Yet it's still possible to donate to the KKK via PayPal. Right.

The Australian government should be defending Assange. Or at least, be the ones to deal with him. Instead they're threatening to not let him back in? Oh dear.




   
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Re: WikiLeaks - December 7th 2010, 05:16 PM

If he was releasing documents from China, he'd be given a nobel prize as a dissident.
   
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Re: WikiLeaks - December 7th 2010, 06:14 PM

Didn't the UK catch him already?
Anyways I don't think anything should be done to him, they would thank him for pointing out how weak the USA system is and improve it with his help.


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Re: WikiLeaks - December 7th 2010, 06:16 PM

He handed himself in to the police today...
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...,0,10353.story
   
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Re: WikiLeaks - December 7th 2010, 06:23 PM

And then was denied bail incase he flees. Oh dear.





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Re: WikiLeaks - December 7th 2010, 06:58 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew View Post
The cases against him are just lies IMO. They realised how easy it is to accuse a man of rape and soil his reputation, so they took the cheapest shot they could.
The truth needs to be told. if the US is doing stuff they're not proud of, and don't feel they want the public (Who they are meant to serve) to know about, they shouldn't be doing it. We need to know.
It would be peculiar indeed were Sweden, a country which has no real axe to grind against Mr Assange and no real close connection with America bar an extradition treaty (which the UK also has), to devise false charges against him and go to the efforts to secure an international arrest warrant and Interpol red notice. That's not exactly the work of a moment and would suggest there is at least a case to be answered. He has also not particularly conducted himself in an open and transparent manner, as shown by the district judge raising the point that he might well have fled if granted bail.

Re. the "we need to know" point: what exactly does the public need to know about which installations across the world are critical to the security of the United States? That is neither evidence of wrongdoing nor information which would otherwise be in the public domain, yet WikiLeaks has quite happily published quite a lengthy and detailed list of precisely such sites. In terms of potential consequences, that is almost akin to the electoral fraud case in the West Midlands in 2005 where the judge declared there was little more officials could have done to encourage fraud other than write "Steal me" on the postal ballots. The earlier leaks were perhaps mildly embarrassing but nothing particularly surprising or informative, but whatever your views on the merits or otherwise of WikiLeaks' actions that recent leak could quite easily put a lot of people's lives in danger, and those behind WikiLeaks will bear that on their consciences if anything does happen as a result of these leaks.

Quote:
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If he was releasing documents from China, he'd be given a nobel prize as a dissident.
Flippantly making such statements is not only overlooking massive differences in context (and content), but in my view is also pretty belittling of those such as Liu Xiaobo who have been detained by the Chinese authorities purely on the grounds of their dissent. Mr Assange has been arrested to answer charges of sexual misconduct and not anything to do with his activities for WikiLeaks. Indeed, no state has as of yet worked out if he can be charged with anything, or called for his arbitrary detention as might be the case in some states. If we wish to throw in more ineffectual comparisons, were he doing this during World War 2 he would be denounced as a traitor and shot. His situation should be judged solely on the context it is in and not subjected to attempts to glorify what are morally dubious activities.


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Re: WikiLeaks - December 7th 2010, 07:51 PM

This seems like another one of the governments attempts to censor the internet or whatever. It's the governments fault anyway.


Anyway...
   
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Re: WikiLeaks - December 7th 2010, 08:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr2005 View Post
It would be peculiar indeed were Sweden, a country which has no real axe to grind against Mr Assange and no real close connection with America bar an extradition treaty (which the UK also has), to devise false charges against him and go to the efforts to secure an international arrest warrant and Interpol red notice. That's not exactly the work of a moment and would suggest there is at least a case to be answered. He has also not particularly conducted himself in an open and transparent manner, as shown by the district judge raising the point that he might well have fled if granted bail.

Re. the "we need to know" point: what exactly does the public need to know about which installations across the world are critical to the security of the United States? That is neither evidence of wrongdoing nor information which would otherwise be in the public domain, yet WikiLeaks has quite happily published quite a lengthy and detailed list of precisely such sites. In terms of potential consequences, that is almost akin to the electoral fraud case in the West Midlands in 2005 where the judge declared there was little more officials could have done to encourage fraud other than write "Steal me" on the postal ballots. The earlier leaks were perhaps mildly embarrassing but nothing particularly surprising or informative, but whatever your views on the merits or otherwise of WikiLeaks' actions that recent leak could quite easily put a lot of people's lives in danger, and those behind WikiLeaks will bear that on their consciences if anything does happen as a result of these leaks.
I think that if the government were proud of what they were doing, they'd have no problem letting their own citizens know what they're doing. If they don't feel proud of what they're doing, they shouldn't be doing it.
No people's lives are in danger. I repeat: zero. When Julian Assange asked the lead investigator on this case who was in danger, he could name a single person. Your argument is null.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr2005 View Post
Flippantly making such statements is not only overlooking massive differences in context (and content), but in my view is also pretty belittling of those such as Liu Xiaobo who have been detained by the Chinese authorities purely on the grounds of their dissent. Mr Assange has been arrested to answer charges of sexual misconduct and not anything to do with his activities for WikiLeaks. Indeed, no state has as of yet worked out if he can be charged with anything, or called for his arbitrary detention as might be the case in some states. If we wish to throw in more ineffectual comparisons, were he doing this during World War 2 he would be denounced as a traitor and shot. His situation should be judged solely on the context it is in and not subjected to attempts to glorify what are morally dubious activities.
Explain the difference in context, please. I was simply saying that the only reason the US are pissed off is that it's THEM that are in trouble now. They wouldn't be against this if it was for any other country.
   
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Re: WikiLeaks - December 7th 2010, 08:46 PM

Quote:
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I think that if the government were proud of what they were doing, they'd have no problem letting their own citizens know what they're doing. If they don't feel proud of what they're doing, they shouldn't be doing it.
No people's lives are in danger. I repeat: zero. When Julian Assange asked the lead investigator on this case who was in danger, he could name a single person. Your argument is null.

The issue of whether the government is proud of what it is doing or otherwise has no bearing, direct or indirect, on whether it should release information on such actions into the public domain. It may, for example, have overseen the arrest of a terrorist cell planning an attack on another nation and prevented hundreds of lives being lost, but depending upon the security situation (for example if they have links to other groups in that nation) they may not make it public knowledge for fear of triggering another attack. That is not beyond the realms of possibility, and indeed underpinned the entire mindset towards capturing enemy agents in the Second World War or the breaking of the Enigma coding machine. If you believe the Allied war effort would have been better served by making that information public, with all the implications that would have when such news reached Germany, I would be very interested to hear that argument.

Your second point, meanwhile, could be demolished by any incident whereby one of the sites on that list is attacked based on the information divulged in that leak which results in the death or serious injury of one or more persons. Unless you have personally examined all 250,000 cables and the original source material, therefore, and conducted some assessment of the risk situation before and after the leak, I would say that any absolute judgement on the risk or otherwise to anyone's life is not based on empirical evidence and is solely speculation.

Quote:
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Explain the difference in context, please. I was simply saying that the only reason the US are pissed off is that it's THEM that are in trouble now. They wouldn't be against this if it was for any other country.
Claims that he would be awarded a Nobel Prize as a dissident were this China and not the US are not the same thing as citing self-interest as being behind the US reaction, and it overlooks the entire basis for the decision to award Liu Xiaobo the Nobel Prize. His award was made on the basis of "his long and non-violent struggle for fundamental human rights in China", including campaigning for the end of the one-party state and further democratic reforms. Such leaks as are being carried out by WikiLeaks have no such basis, and seem more akin to a group of cyber-anarchists trying to show what they can do with the Internet (as shown by the DDOS attacks against sites which refused to support WikiLeaks). Mr Assange has not been arrested because the US is "pissed off", but because of charges in Sweden that up to this point he has refused to address in court. Therein lie a number of differences in context for starters. It's also dubious as to whether the US would really be that happy if another nation was having its diplomatic cables hacked into, given that as recent events have shown it's not only information from that country which is revealed. China and Saudi Arabia for instance have drawn attention with their comments about North Korea and Iran respectively. The Cold War-era model of autonomous world powers sniping at each other and revelling in each other's misfortune is as much a relic of that era as the Berlin Wall; in reality this has caused a lot of concern from a variety of nations, and understandably so.


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If you're referring to dr2005's response, it's not complex, however, he has a way with words .
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Re: WikiLeaks - December 7th 2010, 09:54 PM

I support governmental transparency, there should be no secrets. So yeah, go wikileaks!
   
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Re: WikiLeaks - December 9th 2010, 05:38 AM

Apparently a group of Wikileak supporters have attacked the websites of Mastercard and Visa. This could be wrong, but I read that they also leaked people's credit card information via Twitter. Wtf does other people's credit card information have to do with this?!
   
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Re: WikiLeaks - December 9th 2010, 06:45 AM

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Apparently a group of Wikileak supporters have attacked the websites of Mastercard and Visa. This could be wrong, but I read that they also leaked people's credit card information via Twitter. Wtf does other people's credit card information have to do with this?!
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Re: WikiLeaks - December 9th 2010, 02:09 PM

It was Anonymous. Again. Obviously. I sat with a smirk on my face in Newswriting today cuz we were watching the news to check the headlines and this popped up. I always love it when they stand up for things like this.




   
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Re: WikiLeaks - December 9th 2010, 06:30 PM

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It was Anonymous. Again. Obviously. I sat with a smirk on my face in Newswriting today cuz we were watching the news to check the headlines and this popped up. I always love it when they stand up for things like this.
Lol, Anonymous makes me laugh. I find it hilarious how the news outlets are making this out to be some big deal. It's just Anonymous finding an excuse to cause mayhem, not a giant cyber war. All they did was DDoS a couple sites.


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Re: WikiLeaks - December 9th 2010, 07:10 PM

I don't really get it. I just saw it on the news though, and saying Amazons one of its biggest threats or something like that.


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Re: WikiLeaks - December 9th 2010, 07:19 PM

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I don't really get it. I just saw it on the news though, and saying Amazons one of its biggest threats or something like that.
If that's true then I don't get why they're attacking Amazon? I thought they just leaked government information.

I'm all for the people knowing what the government's up to but they were on the news a while back for leaking information about military operations in Afghanistan which I thought was absolutely awful since it puts the soldiers at more risk.
   
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Re: WikiLeaks - December 9th 2010, 08:40 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serenity. View Post


If that's true then I don't get why they're attacking Amazon? I thought they just leaked government information.
I don't get any of this, but here's the link to something I just found.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11957367
I think it says its okay? But I dont know.


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Re: WikiLeaks - December 9th 2010, 11:08 PM

Anonymous planned on attacking PayPal, Visa and Amazon because they all withdrew association/funding of the WikiLeaks site after the cables were published. There's no reason to suggest that they had to do this or that it was illegal for them to support the site, so Anonymous is attacking them for bowing to pressures by the government, as if they are supporting that free speech shouldn't be free at all. Like that article says, via PayPal you can donate to the KKK, yet apparently WikiLeaks is too wrong for them.

I remember they once attacked Gene Simmons' websites when he said file sharers should be sued and have everything taken from them. He posted on his website once they were back up that the FBI would find the hackers responsible and imprison them. A few hours later Anonymous had hacked his sites again. Hah.




   
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Re: WikiLeaks - December 9th 2010, 11:27 PM

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Anonymous planned on attacking PayPal, Visa and Amazon because they all withdrew association/funding of the WikiLeaks site after the cables were published. There's no reason to suggest that they had to do this or that it was illegal for them to support the site, so Anonymous is attacking them for bowing to pressures by the government, as if they are supporting that free speech shouldn't be free at all. Like that article says, via PayPal you can donate to the KKK, yet apparently WikiLeaks is too wrong for them.

I remember they once attacked Gene Simmons' websites when he said file sharers should be sued and have everything taken from them. He posted on his website once they were back up that the FBI would find the hackers responsible and imprison them. A few hours later Anonymous had hacked his sites again. Hah.
Something about Anonymous that scaremongering news articles don't make clear is that it isn't an organized group. It is a bunch of bored young guys from another website who have an amazing ability to get together as a semi-organized mob to cause mayhem and madness for no other reason than that it is funny. They will tell you they have other reasons, like morals or ethics, but none of them have any feelings. They just like watching the world burn.

/has spent quite a bit of time hanging out with Anonymous
//Thinks they are enjoyable, if dangerous, company.


Also, let me repeat that there is no mythical hacker group who can turn the internet on and off or hack your credit card from Visa or make your house asplode or anything else. All they did to these sites was DDoS them, which is just a fancy term for overloading the server so the site goes down. It really isn't a big deal, Anons DDoS sites everyday, you just only hear about the big ones.


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Re: WikiLeaks - December 9th 2010, 11:29 PM

Nice little Dark Knight nod there as well.




   
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