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Does porn degrade women? - December 6th 2010, 08:35 PM

I've read a lot of articles about this recently, most of which say that porn does not, in fact, degrade women. However, my thoughts are very different.

Porn rarely shows men doing things to please a woman (i.e. giving her oral, etc.), features women of the same body type whislt only showing the man's penis in many cases, and always makes the woman a passive role. The camera is almost always showing portions that are primarily to turn men on, and is rarely from the woman's perspective. And unfortunately, lesbians are made out to be sexual objects to temp men and not loving, caring sexually driven people.

Pornography, as a function of pop-culture, plays a large role in shaping the ideologies around sexuality, gender roles and interpersonal relationships. It goes beyond the realm of fantasy, and has a profound psychological impact on how the population as a whole perceives the male and female gender roles, how the population perceives inter-personal relationships and ultimately the act of sex. Pornography has, by virtue of it's pop-culture status, contributed to the perversion of sex. It has enormous ideological effect, just as any mass-media or pop-cultural content does.

So what do you think? Does porn degrade women?


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Re: Does porn degrade women? - December 6th 2010, 08:55 PM

Although I have nothing against porn or people watching it, I find it doesn't turn me on that much for this exact reason ~ that I find it a bit degrading to women. (And a little tacky sometimes.) But when you think about it the porn industry is largely targeted at a male audience, and males are turned on by visual images of sex...I'm as yet undecided on how it might affect a man's perpective towards women though.


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Re: Does porn degrade women? - December 7th 2010, 12:46 AM

It depends on what kind of porn you watch. The porn industry is realizing that *gasp* women watch pornography too and are offended. We have to keep in mind that when a guy wants to watch pornography, he wants a video in his perspective. It wouldn't make sense for a woman to want to watch a video in a male's perspective, and therefore some porn websites have created a "female-friendly" category of porn videos. We also have to take into consideration that pornography is a profitable business because society says so. If people weren't interested, then there wouldn't be thousands of websites that are dedicated to pornography. So pornography isn't responsible for anything, it's society. People are responsible for their actions. Guns don't kill people; people kill people.
   
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Re: Does porn degrade women? - December 7th 2010, 01:29 AM

I think you should check out this article:

Opposing Views: Perverting the Population's Perception of Relationships

Whoops, but it looks like you already have.
   
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Re: Does porn degrade women? - December 7th 2010, 04:28 AM

Yes, it does.


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Re: Does porn degrade women? - December 7th 2010, 04:47 AM

I feel that it does. I have only watched porn once, years ago, just to try it out. I stopped because I didn't like how the women were portrayed

Yeah, it may have been which videos I was watching, and it may have just been the time period, but I doubt I would really feel differently now.

What Brandon says makes sense to me, though.

But, in my eyes, I suppose porn will always degrade women, and cheapen sex (not that I'm very sexual anyway :P )

   
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Re: Does porn degrade women? - December 7th 2010, 07:56 AM

I'm going to move this thread to Debates because I think it's probably more suitable there =).



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Re: Does porn degrade women? - December 7th 2010, 08:04 AM

I don't think it does, they have the choice whether or not they want to enter the industry. So it is their choice. Let women do what they please.
   
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Re: Does porn degrade women? - December 7th 2010, 08:33 AM

I don't think it degrades women. To the OP, there is a variety of types of pornography with adults and some focus a lot more on women. Some porn also shows roughly equal amounts of men and women so a person of either sex have equal opportunities for arousal.

Also, in mentioning that lesbians are used as sex toys is kind of redundant because the entire purpose of pornography is to sexually arouse, not to show how caring they are in the real-world. If it did, chances are it wouldn't be sexually arousing. In general though, I think lots of pornography is designed to please men because men seem to be more open about their masturbation than women. In reality, it's about the same ratio but men are more open about it. This isn't true for all though.

There is an effect on interpersonal relationships but it's one of the many factors and is dependent on others, such as approval of pornography through socialization and other processes. Openness from other social developmental processes make one more open about their pornography use and may even increase their use. So although there is an effect, it's mediated by many factors. It's so prevalent through media and social interactions because it's a very lucrative business that is supported by much of society. By supported, I mean in general, legal pornography of whatever type is supported by many either by realizing it contributes immensely to the economy or because people like it. In a way, people are responsible for making it so accepting and allowing it to travel throughout media and society. If people were opposed to it, it wouldn't be as such. So blaming pornography for whatever changes it causes is ultimately because people support it.

In a way, it's like saying behaving a certain way is prevalent and affects interpersonal relationships. Despite its effects, it persists because it is supported. To me, this suggests about porn, many don't find it degrading or if they do, they value the visual sexual stimuli more.


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Re: Does porn degrade women? - December 7th 2010, 09:12 AM

It depends what kind of porn you watch. Not all porn is for men, if that was the case then the porn industry would lose money as very very little females would watch.


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Re: Does porn degrade women? - December 7th 2010, 02:30 PM

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No, but I am saying that I understand why parents disapprove. Why would you approve of anything that could potentially distort your child's view of a beautiful act, like sex? I would not parentally block my child's computer, however I would never encourage the observation of porn (i.e. buying my son sexually perverse magazines)
Christopher Ryan would probably disagree. In the 1990's, he was a doctoral student in Psychology (no telling what he's doing now). He says that the "human organisms" weren't designed to be monogamous. He argues that "adultery has been documented in every human culture studied." If monogamy is "natural," that you spend 50 years of your life with one specific person and have "beautiful sex"...then why do people cheat? And if adultery has existed even before pornography existed, then is it fair to say that pornography doesn't really degrade women as much as people like to think? If you say that pornography degrades women, then I will say that it degrades men as well. I don't like the idea of society viewing me as a person who only wants to dominate women just because I'm a male, so you know what? Porn degrades men. The only reason why I don't care if porn degrades men is because porn is only used as a visual stimulation. Nothing more, nothing less. And I don't watch professional pornography that is obviously fake. I watch amateur 95% of the time, and anything else...I'm aware that it's not real, I'm aware that sex is actually quite different in reality, and at the end of the day...I'm still able to have relationships, feel emotions, and not look at women in a "distorted" way. I definitely won't hump everything I see, and physical attraction is natural and documented in history for long periods of time, and our bodies were built for procreation, so just because I look at a woman in a sexual manner doesn't mean that porn destroyed my point of view on women. It just means that I'm human. By the time I was 6 years old, I was engaging in oral sex on certain girls. And I wasn't even watching porn at that time. How did that come to be? If it wasn't porn that got me interested in engaging in oral sex, then what was it? If you want to blame anyone, blame society, as a whole, because porn is controlled by society. The only thing that porn does is give us what we want.

We all want a nice car. I wouldn't mind a Ferrari or Lamborghini. But because I can't afford it, it's not easily accessible for me. Porn is on the internet. It's free, anyone can access it, and it's in large quantities. So porn is like a free Ferrari. It's like going up to the dealership and they go like "oh, hey...umm..yeah...so we got you this Ferrari F430, really nice, but you're more than welcome to build your own preference...do you want it yellow? Red? Stripes? Anything you want. I just wouldn't recommend you showing it to everybody because people will kind of question you and it'd be kind of awkward." I'd be like...hell yeah! For free? Nothing better than that! Why go to a sex shop and buy a porn movie for 30 dollars when I can just access the internet and have an almost unlimited quantity.

A long time ago, people considered homosexuality to be possessed by the devil. Obviously we don't think the same way now because society has become more understanding. Regardless of whether it's natural in human beings or not, scientists have been trying to prove otherwise and articles have been posted, like you mention earlier, that say that say that..y' know...porn ain't half bad! Some people have even suggested that sexual violence has been decreased because of porn. Arguably, porn isn't as bad as people think it is. It's just that, like homosexuality, just because some people believe that it's bad doesn't mean it actually is.
   
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Re: Does porn degrade women? - December 7th 2010, 02:45 PM

I think it creates unrealistic expectations in some men, but I don't think it degrades women. If anything it has a greater negative effect on men.

Pen and Teller did a special on Porn, and how some people were scremaing that porn causes rape. They did a pretty good job of shooting that one down.


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Re: Does porn degrade women? - December 7th 2010, 04:10 PM

I forgot to mention that in my last post. I don't think it's very good for men either, they have 7867856 inch (obviously an exaggeration ) penises on porn.


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Re: Does porn degrade women? - December 7th 2010, 04:11 PM

Simple answer: No.
At worst, it degrades the woman in the video.
   
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Re: Does porn degrade women? - December 7th 2010, 06:26 PM

The irony of this question is that a lot female porn stars will state that they feel empowered by starring in a porno. Notice I said porn stars, and not amateurs just doing it for quick money or drugs.

But is it degrading? As already stated, porn is geared towards men for the most part. These women are just acting out what men already see in their heads. They're just giving visuals of their fantasies.

I don't disagree with the material used in pornography, I just disagree with the porn industry in its entirety.


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Re: Does porn degrade women? - December 7th 2010, 07:00 PM

My girlfriend said something today which I agree with, 'the porn doesn't degrade them, they degrade themselves'
   
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Re: Does porn degrade women? - December 7th 2010, 07:03 PM

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I don't disagree with the material used in pornography, I just disagree with the porn industry in its entirety.
Not sure what you mean to be honest. Could you elaborate more on this?
   
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Re: Does porn degrade women? - December 7th 2010, 08:07 PM

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Not sure what you mean to be honest. Could you elaborate more on this?
No, actually. My opinion is very biased, and asking me to answer this question would be like asking someone who's lost a loved one to lung cancer to join in on a discussion as to if cigarettes should be illegal. Porn has negitively affected my life and will avoid stating my true opinion on it to avoid getting torn to shreds over it.

I'll just say that I don't think its what the women or men are doing in these videos, its the entire porn industry that I don't care for. Don't know how else to elaborate.


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Re: Does porn degrade women? - December 7th 2010, 09:17 PM

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No, actually. My opinion is very biased, and asking me to answer this question would be like asking someone who's lost a loved one to lung cancer to join in on a discussion as to if cigarettes should be illegal. Porn has negitively affected my life and will avoid stating my true opinion on it to avoid getting torn to shreds over it.

I'll just say that I don't think its what the women or men are doing in these videos, its the entire porn industry that I don't care for. Don't know how else to elaborate.
So you're saying that we should just disregard your opinion? If you don't want to tell your opinion on a subject, regardless of it being bias or not, then why even bother to post in the first place? And if you have the evidence to back up your beliefs, then it wouldn't be considered being "torn up." I'll still respect you for disagreeing about porn, even if it's a bias, as long as you have credible evidence to support your beliefs. So what you're saying is that you have no evidence to support your beliefs and your belief is bias. Why give your opinion when you don't want people to respond to it? Just for some post counts?
   
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Re: Does porn degrade women? - December 7th 2010, 09:51 PM

Now now Brandon, no need to say something like that...the porn industry has somehow negatively affected her life, maybe a relationship or her personal self...if she doesn't wish to explain, that's quite alright, she's already stated the general, the specific in this case may only cause her pain. So, her answer is basically, "I'm not offended by what happens in porn, I just don't like porn."

As for my answer of this question:
No; not really. A porn video is just the visual of a sexual fantasy, nothing more or less. If the target audience is men, then it'll show things that most men would favor. Personally I can't stand porn with men in it, but that's just me. Anyway. The women who star (interesting word to use here) in pornography get paid lots of money. If they take a degrading role, that's their own decision, and does not reflect their entire gender. Hitler does not represent all Germans, Al Queida does not represent all Muslims. Extreme examples, yes, but the same concept. One person or group of people do not represent the whole.
   
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Re: Does porn degrade women? - December 7th 2010, 10:50 PM

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Now now Brandon, no need to say something like that...the porn industry has somehow negatively affected her life, maybe a relationship or her personal self...if she doesn't wish to explain, that's quite alright, she's already stated the general, the specific in this case may only cause her pain. So, her answer is basically, "I'm not offended by what happens in porn, I just don't like porn."
I wasn't asking for an explanation, I was asking for clarification. To me, that's not exactly the same thing. I wasn't asking why she believes such and such, I'm asking how you can be against the porn industry but not porn. It's like being against the cigarette industry but not being against cigarettes. It doesn't really make sense to me and I just wanted some clarification. But...it's still kind of an explanation, but I wasn't trying to get an explanation about why she believes what she believes...if she chooses to watch pornography and she negatively affected her life because of it, that's fine, bias or not, I just wanted clarification. lol. Hopefully that makes sense, but I could be completely wrong. =S
   
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Re: Does porn degrade women? - December 7th 2010, 11:09 PM

Well, yeah, that makes sense. But to use your tobacco example (and stick only to cigarettes so any connection back to porn may not make sense), it's possible to not hate the concept of a cigarette, an instrument of smoking, but hate the industry that markets to kids and overcharges things that they know people will buy. So, it's possible to hate the instrument of something but not the thing itself, in this case, the industry of porn but not actual porn.
   
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Re: Does porn degrade women? - December 7th 2010, 11:18 PM

It does not degrade the entire population of women. It degrades the woman that is in the porn.
   
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Re: Does porn degrade women? - December 7th 2010, 11:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon View Post

Christopher Ryan would probably disagree. In the 1990's, he was a doctoral student in Psychology (no telling what he's doing now). He says that the "human organisms" weren't designed to be monogamous. He argues that "adultery has been documented in every human culture studied." If monogamy is "natural," that you spend 50 years of your life with one specific person and have "beautiful sex"...then why do people cheat? And if adultery has existed even before pornography existed, then is it fair to say that pornography doesn't really degrade women as much as people like to think? If you say that pornography degrades women, then I will say that it degrades men as well. I don't like the idea of society viewing me as a person who only wants to dominate women just because I'm a male, so you know what? Porn degrades men. The only reason why I don't care if porn degrades men is because porn is only used as a visual stimulation. Nothing more, nothing less. And I don't watch professional pornography that is obviously fake. I watch amateur 95% of the time, and anything else...I'm aware that it's not real, I'm aware that sex is actually quite different in reality, and at the end of the day...I'm still able to have relationships, feel emotions, and not look at women in a "distorted" way. I definitely won't hump everything I see, and physical attraction is natural and documented in history for long periods of time, and our bodies were built for procreation, so just because I look at a woman in a sexual manner doesn't mean that porn destroyed my point of view on women. It just means that I'm human. By the time I was 6 years old, I was engaging in oral sex on certain girls. And I wasn't even watching porn at that time. How did that come to be? If it wasn't porn that got me interested in engaging in oral sex, then what was it? If you want to blame anyone, blame society, as a whole, because porn is controlled by society. The only thing that porn does is give us what we want.

We all want a nice car. I wouldn't mind a Ferrari or Lamborghini. But because I can't afford it, it's not easily accessible for me. Porn is on the internet. It's free, anyone can access it, and it's in large quantities. So porn is like a free Ferrari. It's like going up to the dealership and they go like "oh, hey...umm..yeah...so we got you this Ferrari F430, really nice, but you're more than welcome to build your own preference...do you want it yellow? Red? Stripes? Anything you want. I just wouldn't recommend you showing it to everybody because people will kind of question you and it'd be kind of awkward." I'd be like...hell yeah! For free? Nothing better than that! Why go to a sex shop and buy a porn movie for 30 dollars when I can just access the internet and have an almost unlimited quantity.

A long time ago, people considered homosexuality to be possessed by the devil. Obviously we don't think the same way now because society has become more understanding. Regardless of whether it's natural in human beings or not, scientists have been trying to prove otherwise and articles have been posted, like you mention earlier, that say that say that..y' know...porn ain't half bad! Some people have even suggested that sexual violence has been decreased because of porn. Arguably, porn isn't as bad as people think it is. It's just that, like homosexuality, just because some people believe that it's bad doesn't mean it actually is.
I myself am actually a large deconstructionist. I believe that all of our sexual feelings (in their natural state) are purely biological. That being said, men certainly want to "spread their seed." However, the life expectancy of a man's child increases when he stays with the wife and only must support one child, as opposed to many. The life expectancy of the child also increases when the mother is satisfied and able to perform correctly. Emotionally, the vast majority of women are not "okay" with their baby-daddy being "with" another woman--even if purely sexually. That would therefore decrease the woman's ability to raise her child. In this way, men can be inclined to be sexually monogamous. I do not believe that it is "unnatural" for a person to be sexually monogamous or socially monogamous. Because people differ so greatly, it is impossible to put such a sweeping generalization over all man.

Back to porn. I am certainly not saying that all porn is degrading to women. There are certainly outliers-- porn companies that cater to women, etc. However, the vast majority of it...well, is. Yes, the people in porn degrade themselves (I am a strong supporter of the people-kill-people argument), however because porn generally features an active male persepective with a primary emphasis on sensitive lady parts, the woman is being looked at, instead of being an active "looker." This is not only common in porn, but in most mainstream films as well. When the woman is not an active participant, she is being degraded (and if the man was being viewed as a purely sexual object, he would eb degraded as well). I am saying that the majority of porn is objectifying to women. As with your personal life, I am happy that you have found peace in your sexuality and I understand that your urge to perform sexual acts was not driven by the porn industry. But I'm not saying that it is! I'm saying that porn encourages a distorted view of women and sex itself, and that the majority of it features a passive female that exists to be watched. Whereas the woman is degrading herself, the industry exists to promote this behavior because it is profitable, and that is degrading. I am also not saying that porn is wrong. I accept sexuality and promote healthy acceptance of life's beautiful acts. I understand porn, but I believe its degradation of women is unhealthy. It does not celebrate the female form, but rather destroys it by using it as a way to justify a man's pleasure. If two people were portrayed as equals, thsi would be a different story. But for the most part, they're really not. I resort back to the first argument I made in my post as to why parents would disapprove.


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Re: Does porn degrade women? - December 8th 2010, 06:42 AM

No. It's not degrading, although the industry seems to think women are giving up more to do porn.(Women get paid a buttload more than men because they are giving up their 'virtues' and such, whereas it's actually much, much harder to be a male porn actor.) These women do this because they want to, and the primary audience is male. So yes, it's going to be in a male perspective. It's not degrading, it's life.


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Re: Does porn degrade women? - December 8th 2010, 11:44 AM

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These women do this because they want to, and the primary audience is male. So yes, it's going to be in a male perspective. It's not degrading, it's life.
That seems a bit hypocritical to me. Degrade- to lower to low self-esteem or disrepute. (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/degrading?show=0&t=1291812122). If you agree that it is primarily in a male's perspective and is therefore actively looking at the passive female, then that's degradation. So I guess that means that that facet of "life" as you said is degrading.


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Re: Does porn degrade women? - December 8th 2010, 12:34 PM

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It does not degrade the entire population of women. It degrades the woman that is in the porn.
May I ask how? Porn-stars love their jobs, hence why they... do more than one shooting.


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Re: Does porn degrade women? - December 8th 2010, 02:11 PM

I don't think it's degrading. It's porn. It is what it is.
   
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Re: Does porn degrade women? - December 8th 2010, 05:08 PM

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Originally Posted by flippinmayonnaise View Post
That seems a bit hypocritical to me. Degrade- to lower to low self-esteem or disrepute. (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/degrading?show=0&t=1291812122). If you agree that it is primarily in a male's perspective and is therefore actively looking at the passive female, then that's degradation. So I guess that means that that facet of "life" as you said is degrading.
Are you saying that being passive is degrading? If you want to go by literal definitions, being passive is not "to degrade oneself" but simply "not participating readily or actively." (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/passive). There's a variety of definitions for that word, but they have nothing to do with low self-esteem or degradation. Passive is a neutral term, but people's opinions give it a different meaning. Maybe some women like to be passive? I couldn't find much on this subject, but all those "yahoo answers" and "answerbag" websites, generally women said that they prefer being passive in bed than they do aggressive. No one mentions that passive sex is "degrading women" so just because a woman is potentially more likely to enjoy passive sex than aggressive sex (for whatever reason), doesn't automatically mean that she's being degraded because if it's not lowering her self-esteem, then it's just simply a sexual act that women don't mind men doing.

I did find a slightly interesting article that may not be completely true but would make sense regarding what men want in sex: http://www.sideroad.com/bridges/column10.html

It makes sense that guys aren't really concerned about "making love" but rather seeing sex as an exchange. You exchange pleasure for pleasure, and he'll do it at the cost of doing everything himself. So if this were true, then men wouldn't want sex to "degrade" women, but they just see it as an exchange, and from what I've witnessed and researched...women typically want their man to feel "manly", while men like to be naturally "manly" too.
   
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Re: Does porn degrade women? - December 8th 2010, 06:16 PM

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So you're saying that we should just disregard your opinion? If you don't want to tell your opinion on a subject, regardless of it being bias or not, then why even bother to post in the first place? And if you have the evidence to back up your beliefs, then it wouldn't be considered being "torn up." I'll still respect you for disagreeing about porn, even if it's a bias, as long as you have credible evidence to support your beliefs. So what you're saying is that you have no evidence to support your beliefs and your belief is bias. Why give your opinion when you don't want people to respond to it? Just for some post counts?
Wow, do you get that worked up over everything? What do you want me to say... Sorry Mr. Brandon, sir, for disregarding the ever so important rules of the current event & debate forum by not having evidence to back up my opinions. My bad for wanting to simply answer the OPs question with what I think, when she simply asked what everyone thinks about this subject. Oh, and good luck getting many people to have any evidence to give to back up their opinions on a thread debating pornography. Cause its just not that readily available.

And, thank you Nightmare, you are correct I'm not offended by what is acted out in porn. I'm offended that porn has gone so mainstream. I'm offended that women feel liberated by porn instead of feeling like common prostitutes, selling their bodies because they don't want to work to better themselves. Because as soon as they reach their prime, trust that no one will hire them for what they are "good at." I want for them to stop calling themselves feminists and being proud of themselves for using their bodies, and only their bodies, to get what they want, when the real feminist role models should be someone who has taken advantage of women rights and worked hard to better their lives. I'm pissed that porn stars names are now household names and that they even have their own damn award show like they are actual actors and actresses or something.

Sure, porn is for adults and if an adult wants to be that active in porn, then so be it. But with porn being so mainstream, you said it yourself, it is extremely readily available. If my son can't watch it at my house, he can watch it at a friends. Not only is it illegal, but I don't want to risk the damage that looking at porn at an early age can cause. The worst a boy could see a few years ago was maybe a Playboy. Now he can watch hours upon hours of footage on every fetish he could imagine, whether it be accidentally or on purpose.


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Re: Does porn degrade women? - December 8th 2010, 07:19 PM

I think that porn does, in fact, degrade women. In a way I think it degrades men, too, but I think the primary focus is the degredation of women.

Earlier someone said they don't think it degrades women, just the woman in the video. I would have to say I think the exact opposite. The woman in the video is (hopefully) a legal, consenting adult; she knows what she is doing and what she is getting herself into. But pornographic films, for the most part, do not really focus on the experience of women. Porn often makes women look like sex objects; for example, many pornos have an entire section where the female star is just showing off her body to the camera. They are usually focused around the man's pleasure, and do focus on angles that appeal visually to men the most. Often, there is not a lot of focus on the female's pleasure; it any one who has ever had sex can figure out many, if not all, of the female's sound effects are not genuine. In otherwords, there isn't "sex" going on; the females are just getting used for male gratification. Even worse though, what really degrades women is that mentality carries over into every day life, and changes how men perceive women in many cases.

However, it's not fair to men, either. Porn puts a lot of pressure on men to act and look a certain way; it's where a lot of male insecurity about penis size and ability in bed comes in. In my experience, guys who got most of their "tricks" from porn are actually worse in bed. Porn gives unrealistic expectations of what women want, and of what men should be like.

I think both sexes get shortchanged in pornos. Does that mean I think porn should be banned, or that I don't watch it? Absolutely not. The idea is to take it with a grain of salt. As for my child watching porn, I'm of the opinion they will find it somehow if they want to. I am not going to endorse it, but I am not going to ban it either. I'm just going to teach them more about internet safety so as to prevent the contraction of viruses on the computer.



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Re: Does porn degrade women? - December 8th 2010, 08:14 PM

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Originally Posted by ForeverHis View Post
Wow, do you get that worked up over everything? What do you want me to say... Sorry Mr. Brandon, sir, for disregarding the ever so important rules of the current event & debate forum by not having evidence to back up my opinions. My bad for wanting to simply answer the OPs question with what I think, when she simply asked what everyone thinks about this subject. Oh, and good luck getting many people to have any evidence to give to back up their opinions on a thread debating pornography. Cause its just not that readily available.
Let's not blow things out of proportion here. I'm not worked up, by all means. This is a debate forum, and therefore sometimes your opinions get...kind of debated. It's like going into a marijuana debate and saying "marijuana is bad for you..." You can't expect people to respond "I smoke marijuana but I totally respect your opinion." I wish! Sometimes people present facts to debates, sometimes opinions, but if we never debated on an opinion, our threads wouldn't last as long as they do now. Sorry for wanting to debate with you in the debate forum. Your opinions don't matter from now on.
   
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Re: Does porn degrade women? - December 8th 2010, 08:26 PM

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Let's not blow things out of proportion here. I'm not worked up, by all means. This is a debate forum, and therefore sometimes your opinions get...kind of debated. It's like going into a marijuana debate and saying "marijuana is bad for you..." You can't expect people to respond "I smoke marijuana but I totally respect your opinion." I wish! Sometimes people present facts to debates, sometimes opinions, but if we never debated on an opinion, our threads wouldn't last as long as they do now. Sorry for wanting to debate with you in the debate forum. Your opinions don't matter from now on.
Good job ignoring the fact that I answered your original question. Not like it would get any respect from you anyway, because I didn't have evidence to back it up... just like everyone else who has posted their opinion so far.


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Re: Does porn degrade women? - December 8th 2010, 09:57 PM

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Originally Posted by ForeverHis View Post
Good job ignoring the fact that I answered your original question. Not like it would get any respect from you anyway, because I didn't have evidence to back it up... just like everyone else who has posted their opinion so far.
You know, not everything has to be a personal attack. He wasn't attacking your character, he was asking for clarification.

Everyone try to be a bit more civil. Yeesh.


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Re: Does porn degrade women? - December 9th 2010, 05:53 AM

Read this article and you will get the definite answer to the question.
Quote:
The Truth Behind the Fantasy of Porn

by

Shelley Lubben, Former Porn Actress

Dedicated to all the porn actresses who caught HIV, died from drug overdose and committed suicide.


Sex-packed porn films featuring freshly-dyed blondes whose evocative eyes say "I want you" is quite possibly one of the greatest deceptions of all time. Trust me, I know. I did it all the time and I did it for the lust of power and the love of money. I never liked sex. I never wanted sex, and in fact I was more apt to spend time with Jack Daniels than some of the studs I was paid to "fake it" with. That's right, none of us freshly-dyed blondes like doing porn. In fact, we hate it. We hate being touched by strangers who care nothing about us. We hate being degraded with their foul smells and sweaty bodies. Some women hate it so much they can be heard vomiting in the bathroom between scenes. Others can be found outside smoking an endless chain of Marlboro lights…

But the porn industry wants YOU to think we porn actresses love sex. They want you to think we enjoy being degraded by all kinds of repulsive acts. The truth, porn actresses have showed up on the set not knowing about certain requirements and were told by porn producers to do it or leave without being paid. Work or never work again. Yes, we made the choice. Some of us needed the money. But we were manipulated and coerced and even threatened. Some of us caught HIV as a result of that coercion. I personally caught Herpes, a non-curable sexually transmitted disease. Another porn actress went home after a long night of numbing her pain and put a pistol to her head and pulled the trigger. Now she's dead.

It's safe to say most women who turn to porn acting as a money-making enterprise, probably didn't grow up in healthy childhoods either. Indeed, many actresses admit they've experienced sexual abuse, physical abuse, verbal abuse and neglect by parents. Some were raped by relatives and molested by neighbors. When we were little girls we wanted to play with dollies and be mommies, not have big scary men get on top of us. So we were taught at a young age that sex made us valuable. The same horrible violations we experienced then, we relive as we perform our tricks in front of the camera. And we hate every minute of it. We're traumatized little girls living on anti-depressants, drugs and alcohol acting out our pain in front of you who continue to abuse us.

As we continue to traumatize ourselves by making more adult films, we use more and more drugs and alcohol. We live in constant fear of catching AIDS and sexually transmitted diseases. Every time there's an HIV scare we race to the nearest clinic for an emergency checkup. Pornographers insist on giving viewers the fantasy sex they demand all the while sacrificing the very ones who make it happen. In other words, no condoms allowed. Herpes, gonorrhea, syphilis, chlamydia, and other diseases are the normal anxieties we walk around with daily. We get tested monthly but we know testing isn't prevention. Besides worrying about catching diseases from porn sex, there are other harmful activities we engage in that are also very dangerous. Some of us have had physical tearing and damage to internal body parts.

When porn actresses call it a day and head home we attempt to have normal healthy relationships, but some of our boyfriends get jealous and physically abuse us. So instead we marry our porn directors, while others prefer lesbian relationships. It's a real memory making moment when our daughter accidentally walks out and sees mommy kissing another girl. My daughter will vouch for that one.

On our days off we walk around like zombies with a beer in one hand and a shot of whiskey in the other. We aren't up to cleaning so we live in filth most of the time, or we hire a sweet foreign lady to come in and clean up our mess. Porn actresses aren't the best cooks either. Ordering in is normal for us and most of the time we throw up after we eat because we're bulimic.

For porn actresses who have children, we are the world's worst mothers. We yell and scream and hit our kids for no reason. Most of the time we are intoxicated or high, and our four year olds are the ones picking us up off the floor. When clients come over for sex, we lock our children in their rooms and tell them to be quiet. I used to give my daughter a beeper and tell her to wait at the park until I was finished.

The truth is there is no fantasy in porn. It's all a lie. A closer look into the scenes of a porn star's life will show you a movie that the porn industry doesn't want you to see. The real truth is we porn actresses want to end the shame and trauma of our lives but we can't do it alone. We need you men to fight for our freedom and give us back our honor. We need you to hold us in your strong arms while we sob tears over our deep wounds and begin to heal. We want you throw out our movies and help piece together the shattered fragments of our lives. We need you to pray for us so God will hear and repair our ruined lives.

So don't believe the lie anymore. Porn is nothing more than fake sex and lies on videotape. Trust me, I know.
   
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Re: Does porn degrade women? - December 9th 2010, 02:15 PM

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Originally Posted by Delivery View Post
Read this article and you will get the definite answer to the question.
That doesn't really change anything though. People have already said that porn doesn't degrade all women, just the women who take part in the porn. Obviously, porn isn't what people make it out to be. The bottom line is that...someone's gotta do the job. If it's high in demand, then people are gonna pay some good money for you to do something like that. If your incentive is to make money, then pornography is the way to go. If you can get into it, you've pretty much got financial stability. But not all ways of acquiring financial stability comes without a cost. It was ultimately her decision on getting into the porn business, and she went into the career for the money...not the fake sex. She drove herself to greed by taking a job that she wouldn't enjoy, and now she wants to complain about it.
   
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Re: Does porn degrade women? - December 9th 2010, 10:33 PM

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Are you saying that being passive is degrading? If you want to go by literal definitions, being passive is not "to degrade oneself" but simply "not participating readily or actively." (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/passive). There's a variety of definitions for that word, but they have nothing to do with low self-esteem or degradation. Passive is a neutral term, but people's opinions give it a different meaning. Maybe some women like to be passive? I couldn't find much on this subject, but all those "yahoo answers" and "answerbag" websites, generally women said that they prefer being passive in bed than they do aggressive. No one mentions that passive sex is "degrading women" so just because a woman is potentially more likely to enjoy passive sex than aggressive sex (for whatever reason), doesn't automatically mean that she's being degraded because if it's not lowering her self-esteem, then it's just simply a sexual act that women don't mind men doing.

I did find a slightly interesting article that may not be completely true but would make sense regarding what men want in sex: http://www.sideroad.com/bridges/column10.html

It makes sense that guys aren't really concerned about "making love" but rather seeing sex as an exchange. You exchange pleasure for pleasure, and he'll do it at the cost of doing everything himself. So if this were true, then men wouldn't want sex to "degrade" women, but they just see it as an exchange, and from what I've witnessed and researched...women typically want their man to feel "manly", while men like to be naturally "manly" too.
No, I am not saying that being passive is degrading, but rather being viewed as a passive participant- as all the focus is on the male. The majority of porn does this. It has nothing to do with what the woman or man wants or likes, but rather, how they are being portrayed in the porn industry. If sex is considered as an exchange by most men, than it should be shown that way. Unfortunately (and this is where the degradation comes in), the porn industry displays sex as less of an exchange and more as a one-sided realism- a depiction that, in reality, is completely fake. And this one-sidedness is primarily on the side of the male. If I do a general online search for "free porn," what I find is lots of pictures of naked women (and not many of men--the only ones of which feature a woman giving oral sex to the naked man, but even this shot is set up to where you only see the man's penis and woman's mouth), a site dedicated to posting real footage of ex-girlfriends doing "naughty" things, a site that features a woman doing intimate things with other women (with taglines reading "jack off to me and send in your pics"), etc. etc. While there is porn dedicated to women and that cater to women, it is not what comes up when I search porn. I must specifically look up porn for women to come across those sites. The porn industry primarily caters to men, so it shows things it believes men want to see. Many of these images include women performing things on men and getting nothing in return, stripping for men and getting nothing in return, and touching a man and getting nothing in return. This is not an exchange. It is degrading. The female is being passively viewed, as one to give pleasure and not to recieve--as one being the looked at and not the looker---as being viewed as an object and not a partner. It may be considered the male fantasy, and I understand economically why the porn industry exploits it, but the porn that portrays it is degrading to women. It's not about a man feeling "manly" and a woman wanting to play a passive role. It's about an industry that does not support the exchange that you talk about. I would love to hear your comments on the other response I posted to your comment as well?


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Re: Does porn degrade women? - December 9th 2010, 10:43 PM

The woman chooses to have sex for money. I see no problem with this. It doesn't mean that instantly every woman is then degraded! That just makes no sense!
   
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Re: Does porn degrade women? - December 10th 2010, 01:15 AM

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No, I am not saying that being passive is degrading, but rather being viewed as a passive participant- as all the focus is on the male.


Well, men are naturally more visually stimulated than women are. Men also watch more porn than women do, so of course the majority of porn is going to focus on the male. There is porn that is created for women, but since women don't watch more porn than men do...the porn industry doesn't have much incentive to make pornography that doesn't have the focus on the male. And if the majority of porn focuses on the male, while the women are considered a "passive participant", then does that really degrade women? What about in movies or plays that have African slaves but focus on Caucasians? Does that make the movie racist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by flippinmayonnaise View Post
Unfortunately (and this is where the degradation comes in), the porn industry displays sex as less of an exchange and more as a one-sided realism- a depiction that, in reality, is completely fake. And this one-sidedness is primarily on the side of the male.

So if "reality" doesn't participate in "one-sided realism," then does porn really degrade women or does porn just degrade the porn stars in porn? Because if you're going to say that reality is NOT one-sided, then you can't say that porn degrades women when we realistically don't degrade them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flippinmayonnaise View Post
If I do a general online search for "free porn," what I find is lots of pictures of naked women (and not many of men--the only ones of which feature a woman giving oral sex to the naked man, but even this shot is set up to where you only see the man's penis and woman's mouth), a site dedicated to posting real footage of ex-girlfriends doing "naughty" things, a site that features a woman doing intimate things with other women (with taglines reading "jack off to me and send in your pics"), etc. etc. While there is porn dedicated to women and that cater to women, it is not what comes up when I search porn.


Again, porn is a male-dominated industry. Men are more visually stimulated than women are, and therefore men use pornography a lot more often than women do. If the majority of viewers are a certain type of person, then it would make sense to create videos that are for those type of people so you can draw in more profit. That's just business. That's not degradation. As far as I know, searches are searched based on popularity. If the majority of men search for one thing and only a minority of women search for something in specific, then I'm willing to bet that what men search are going to pop up more often.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flippinmayonnaise View Post
I must specifically look up porn for women to come across those sites. The porn industry primarily caters to men, so it shows things it believes men want to see. Many of these images include women performing things on men and getting nothing in return, stripping for men and getting nothing in return, and touching a man and getting nothing in return. This is not an exchange.


I don't know what kind of pornography you're watching because I see plenty of pornography where both the man and woman receive and give to each other. I just wanted to clear that up, but let's just assume that the majority of porn is like this (which I suggest otherwise just from personal observation but whatever :P), then it's not so clear cut. We have to keep in mind that the porn industry might be doing this for a valid reason. If I wanted to watch porn, I would rather watch a woman giving a guy oral sex instead of a guy giving a girl oral because it's more visually stimulating. If a woman is giving a guy oral sex, I can imagine myself in the guy's perspective and thus get turned on more because I can imagine a woman giving me oral. The woman gives pleasure to the man, and therefore I get more pleasure based on arousal and the use of my imagination. We also have to keep in mind that not every guy lasts a long time when watching pornography. I can last anywhere to 30 seconds to 10 minutes -- if I wanted to watch something that provided a broad aspect of sexual intercourse between men and women, I wouldn't be watching five minute clips. I don't watch porn for the emotional aspect of it -- I purely watch it for visual stimulation. And if I'm more likely to enjoy a video where a woman is giving a guy oral as opposed to a guy giving a woman oral, then you can be sure as hell that I'm going to try and get the most pleasure out of my experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flippinmayonnaise View Post
I would love to hear your comments on the other response I posted to your comment as well?
Which ones? I may have missed them.
   
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Re: Does porn degrade women? - December 10th 2010, 11:51 AM

I've never seen any pornography , but from the article a few posts back , I wouldn't say porn degrdes women , she chose to become a pornstar! If she treats her kids like crap to fuck random men then nobody is to blame but her!
She chose the lifestyle , let her face the music.




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