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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
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Tution Fee's are going up. - December 9th 2010, 09:27 PM

Tuition Fee's are now officially going up in England. The vote was won by 21 votes.
Students are protesting accross the country..

I know there has been a thread about this before, but I cant find it.. :s

I disagree strongly with raising tution fees. I hope someone hurts David Cameron.

I disagree however with police officers being hurt and the royal family being attacked.

But it just shows you how much people hate this decision.

Thoughts?




   
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Re: Tution Fee's are going up. - December 9th 2010, 09:33 PM

Fucking Tories -_-. Well, ech, I feel for all my fellow students down in England, it really does suck =/.
But hey, Cameron is even beating Thatcher on how quickly he's causing chaos in the streets. That can only be a good thing =/.




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Re: Tution Fee's are going up. - December 9th 2010, 09:36 PM

It is awful, and I do feel sorry for the people who will be affected by this.

Do you guys have a good loans system at least?
   
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Re: Tution Fee's are going up. - December 9th 2010, 09:39 PM

I think they might have the problem of people moving out of the country to continure their education.
I completely agreee with you Janos. I hope they get voted out sooner or later. Only a matter of time -_-
I just read back what I wrote earlier and it sounds pretty childish haha.. Well i'm angry.. Not easy to be completely civil about everything.




   
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Re: Tution Fee's are going up. - December 9th 2010, 09:42 PM

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Originally Posted by RainbowSkies View Post
I think they might have the problem of people moving out of the country to continure their education.

Where to? Most places I've seen charge huge fees for international students.
   
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Re: Tution Fee's are going up. - December 9th 2010, 09:48 PM

scottland.. Wales.. i didnt mean like abroad..abroad.. Haha

And basically to answer your earlier question. Students pay it back when they get a job. But half of students will never actually be able to pay the loans off.




   
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Re: Tution Fee's are going up. - December 9th 2010, 09:53 PM

Not all Uni's will be nine grand. It can just go up to that. It will be different for different university's.
According to david cameron, the rich are going to be paying the higher fee's and the poor are paying lower fee's. Which, doesn't make me think it's okay, but I guess it's a bit better.
However, nothing else is like that. People who are not as well off don't get a loaf of break for £1 while the more well of people have to pay £3 for the loaf of break. So I still don't think it's fair. But I guess it's just how it goes. We're pretty lucky to have a free education up to the age of eighteen/nineteen.

And I am completely against the fights and riot's.


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Re: Tution Fee's are going up. - December 9th 2010, 10:14 PM

this is utter crap. stupid government!
They'd best increase the bursaries and grants for us poor folk!!


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Re: Tution Fee's are going up. - December 9th 2010, 11:13 PM

I've stated in other threads how annoyed this gets me. What really bothered me today was police on horseback charging crowds of students. That was just horrendous and they should be ashamed.




   
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Re: Tution Fee's are going up. - December 9th 2010, 11:23 PM

Although Ireland has just about managed to escape this so far and just had our registration fees go up to €2000, I really feel for you, because we've had to protest so much against it. It's a stupid idea to raise tuition fees. Education is really one of the biggest most important things that will get us out of the economic crisis and by raising fees up to amounts that students can't afford isn't going to solve anything. Standards of education will go down as well because students will be putting more time and effort into part time jobs simply to be able to afford their own education. I just think it's ridiculous really.


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Re: Tution Fee's are going up. - December 10th 2010, 12:27 AM

Whoever planted the seed for this stupid idea deserves their ballsacks ripped off, 'cos they've got some big ones.

I read some shit about perhaps generally richer students having to pay more, and poorer students having to pay less. That's also full of shit. Equal is equal. What you earn is what you worked for and deserve to keep as much as ANYONE else. If there are some students with exceptionally bad backgrounds and no money, yes they deserve financial support. But not this shit "Oh... his dad earns £75,000 a year, so we'll triple his fees". Gtfo with that crap. They are going to make such a fucking mess of this something almost completely irrelevant like the green party will take over, or BNP would be GREAT (not).

Does anyone here honestly think that the government didn't expect these kind of protests to happen? Of course they did. They went on with the changes regardlessly 'cos they don't give half a shit.


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Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.


   
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Re: Tution Fee's are going up. - December 10th 2010, 01:07 AM

Tories, putting the n in cuts.


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Re: Tution Fee's are going up. - December 10th 2010, 01:10 AM

I'm at Uni in Scotland and I'm pretty sure that in Scotland the fees will eventually go up too because they'll have a massive influx of English applicants... I mean why pay 9K to go to Durham/UCL/Bristol/etc when you can be just over 1K to go to Edinburgh/St Andrews/Glasgow... all on the same level or pretty much, all russel group, can't see why anyone would apply for any English Uni's other than Oxbridge anymore. So I foresee Scotland putting their fees up too. This is my (obviously COMPLETELY sober) prediction of the week.


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Re: Tution Fee's are going up. - December 10th 2010, 01:17 AM

Maybe, for English students. My teacher predicted that perhaps 80% of our universities could be English students (which I think is extreme, but if they're making more money out of it...), a way of making sure that doesn't happen would be to raise the tution fees for them here as well. Which is harsh. But as a Scottish student, I know our unis are already competitive considering we don't have as many as England. Having them filled up by people from other countries would just make them even tougher to get into. I would like us to remain tuition fee free.




   
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Re: Tution Fee's are going up. - December 10th 2010, 04:50 PM

I wanted to post a few links to explain what's gone off:
A report on the violence
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11969030
A report on the clean-up today
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11969349




   
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Re: Tution Fee's are going up. - December 10th 2010, 05:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snufkin View Post
Maybe, for English students. My teacher predicted that perhaps 80% of our universities could be English students (which I think is extreme, but if they're making more money out of it...), a way of making sure that doesn't happen would be to raise the tution fees for them here as well. Which is harsh. But as a Scottish student, I know our unis are already competitive considering we don't have as many as England. Having them filled up by people from other countries would just make them even tougher to get into. I would like us to remain tuition fee free.
My drunkern ramble was not overly coherent. I mean, I think it will significantly go up for English students in the near future. And I can't really see it staying completely free for Scottish students for that much longer.


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Re: Tution Fee's are going up. - December 10th 2010, 05:28 PM

I like how much the BBC focused on the behaviour of the violent students, with very little about the police brutality. And seriously, MPs are completely out of touch with being human if they don't understand it is reasonable to expect such anger and unrest. If you cause unrest in a country, you are going to get some people have violent outbursts. Particularly if you kettle them.

And this:

Quote:
"There is a better way to sort out problems than using violence,"
I keep hearing this... but no one is really offering viable alternatives. What, petitions? Letters to MPs? Walk-outs? Voting in national elections? Guess what, they have been done, and will continue to be done. But they clearly aren't effective means. Some needs to come up with a good alternative to violence, or it will probably happen again. Eventually it wont just be students either. The ConDems are playing a dangerous game with all these cuts.

Anyway, two interesting articles from actual eye witness journalists. The first isnt so much suggesting cops were thugs, but mostly acting out in fear, and I'd say its more of a 'balance' view point. Different location from the second article though.

http://www.politics.co.uk/comment/ed...-$21386187.htm

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/la...testers-police

They are long, but please read both
   
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Re: Tution Fee's are going up. - December 10th 2010, 05:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by her_beautiful_mistake View Post
I'm at Uni in Scotland and I'm pretty sure that in Scotland the fees will eventually go up too because they'll have a massive influx of English applicants... I mean why pay 9K to go to Durham/UCL/Bristol/etc when you can be just over 1K to go to Edinburgh/St Andrews/Glasgow... all on the same level or pretty much, all russel group, can't see why anyone would apply for any English Uni's other than Oxbridge anymore. So I foresee Scotland putting their fees up too. This is my (obviously COMPLETELY sober) prediction of the week.
Hopefully they won't go up in the next 4 years while I'm there (assuming I get in)

Me and some people at school were having a debate about this today actually. It all started when one of my friends said that Prince Charles and Camilla deserve what they got =/

I don't really like the idea of tuition fees rising but obviously the protests didn't change the minds of the politicians so all the violence was unnecessary. Also, I get that people don't want to be in debt but they'll be loans, I'm assuming, that will cover the costs of it.

Tbh, I'm indifferent on the situation as long as I get to go to university I'm not too fussed about how much it costs. I see why people are upset about it but I also get why things are having to become more expensive and why cuts are needed.
   
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Re: Tution Fee's are going up. - December 10th 2010, 05:34 PM

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Originally Posted by Serenity. View Post

Hopefully they won't go up in the next 4 years while I'm there (assuming I get in)

Me and some people at school were having a debate about this today actually. It all started when one of my friends said that Prince Charles and Camilla deserve what they got =/

I don't really like the idea of tuition fees rising but obviously the protests didn't change the minds of the politicians so all the violence was unnecessary. Also, I get that people don't want to be in debt but they'll be loans, I'm assuming, that will cover the costs of it.

Tbh, I'm indifferent on the situation as long as I get to go to university I'm not too fussed about how much it costs. I see why people are upset about it but I also get why things are having to become more expensive and why cuts are needed.
We could get out of debt in other ways, and it doesnt have to be done in a 4 year period. What they are doing is not the only way forward, and apparently its what happened during the Great Depression... and it didnt work so well back then. (I mean cuts in general)
   
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Re: Tution Fee's are going up. - December 10th 2010, 05:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Invert View Post
I like how much the BBC focused on the behaviour of the violent students, with very little about the police brutality. And seriously, MPs are completely out of touch with being human if they don't understand it is reasonable to expect such anger and unrest. If you cause unrest in a country, you are going to get some people have violent outbursts. Particularly if you kettle them.

And this:



I keep hearing this... but no one is really offering viable alternatives. What, petitions? Letters to MPs? Walk-outs? Voting in national elections? Guess what, they have been done, and will continue to be done. But they clearly aren't effective means. Some needs to come up with a good alternative to violence, or it will probably happen again. Eventually it wont just be students either. The ConDems are playing a dangerous game with all these cuts.

Anyway, two interesting articles from actual eye witness journalists. The first isnt so much suggesting cops were thugs, but mostly acting out in fear, and I'd say its more of a 'balance' view point. Different location from the second article though.

http://www.politics.co.uk/comment/ed...-$21386187.htm

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/la...testers-police

They are long, but please read both
Thankyou! Finally someone who understands! I said this thing in another thread about this and got flamed :L
   
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Re: Tution Fee's are going up. - December 10th 2010, 05:59 PM

I think it works out that by the time of the next general election I can just vote. Plus I'll just be ready to go to university..
you know what that means?

BYE BYE DAVID




   
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Re: Tution Fee's are going up. - December 10th 2010, 06:08 PM

Here in the states we have BEEN having to pay.
   
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Re: Tution Fee's are going up. - December 10th 2010, 06:10 PM

But they wont reverse the tution fees, you'll still be paying up to £9000 (for the record, when they put it up to £3000, they suggested it was just a limit, and most unis wouldnt charge it. Go find me one Top 50 English university that doesnt charge the full £3000 (and something pounds, I cant remember, I think its £129?). Chances are a fair few unis, for a fair few courses, will charge over £6000.).

As for the violence thing. I don't think we should aim for violence, I dont think it should be planned, and organised in advance. What I'm saying is, it makes sense that in situations like yesterday, violence will occur, because we have tried everything. We should keep trying everything peaceful. But you are going to have to expect violence along the way. And I'm not saying violence does anything. But if the rest doesn't work, it will leave people thinking 'What have we got to lose'. I do sympathise. And really, at this point, what do we have to lose.

Last edited by Marvin; December 10th 2010 at 06:20 PM.
   
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Re: Tution Fee's are going up. - December 10th 2010, 06:16 PM

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Originally Posted by I love dogs View Post
Here in the states we have BEEN having to pay.
Like you've had to pay for health care. I dare the ConDems to try charge us for most healthcare.

Just because its a certain way in your country doesn't make this ok. We are a different country, with different values, ideas, and history to your country. It's a big deal here, and we also don't want to make education part of a capitalised market. We also have a better education system, which is under threat.

And a lot of students will point out, this isnt simply about tution fees, its about the cuts in general, and our futures. It's about betrayal from the LibDems. Its about a government that didnt even win the election changing so much. It's about the quality of our education in general (even with higher fees, there will be less money going to unis). It's about the increase in unemployment, the state support in that, job cuts, welfare cuts, cuts on equality stuff. Its about democracy, and being given a vioce. This is a big issue. Of course for some it is simply having to pay more to get into uni, but for many, its so much more.
   
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Re: Tution Fee's are going up. - December 10th 2010, 06:20 PM

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But they wont reverse the tution fees, you'll still be paying up to £9000 .
I've grown up in a labour constituency and my parents are labour supporters. I want Ed Miliband in power... he said that he wants to get rid of the fees.. but isn't promising anything.

Also I think if the violence persists.. they are bound to rethink the bill.




   
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Re: Tution Fee's are going up. - December 10th 2010, 06:29 PM

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I've grown up in a labour constituency and my parents are labour supporters. I want Ed Miliband in power... he said that he wants to get rid of the fees.. but isn't promising anything.

Also I think if the violence persists.. they are bound to rethink the bill.
I wasnt saying don't vote out the conservatives. But all means, go ahead, I have no defence for them, nor do I want them in power.

Thing is though, if the tution fees are in place for several years before another party gets into power, its unlikely they will put the fees down, even more unlikely they will put them down in time to help you. there are some senarios where it might be reverse soon, but I wouldn't count on it :/
   
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Re: Tution Fee's are going up. - December 10th 2010, 06:35 PM

yeahh
Good point :/
I think it works out that I can do a course in Law in Australia as an international student for less money than I would have to pay here for it.
HA.




   
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Re: Tution Fee's are going up. - December 10th 2010, 06:39 PM

The whole thing is a scam, a massive redistribution of debt from government to students that will leave hundreds of thousands worse off and deter poor people from going to university without actually bringing any benefit to universities. They'll be left in the same financial situation that they were already: the increase in fees is designed to fill the hole left by the 80% cuts to higher education funding.

The argument that poor students won't be deterred is bullshit. The "reasoning" given by the coalition is that they'll be paying less than better-off students. True, but they're still paying the previous maximum fee, when previously they'd have paid nothing. Whether or not they're getting shafted less than everyone else is irrelevant.

Thing is, I agree that public sector cuts are necessary. As life expectancy increases and the demand for state services rises, the welfare state becomes increasingly untenable. Under Labour the state grew faster than the economy, and that's unsustainable for obvious reasons. But the cuts to higher education stink of the same old right-wing anti-intellectualism, and they benefit no-one. I'm angry at the coalition for their unashamed vandalism of our university system, and I'm ashamed to have voted for the Liberal Democrats (although my candidate didn't win, and there seem to be few alternatives) who sold themselves to the Tories for a referendum on an electoral reform that will concentrate even more power in the hands of the two biggest parties. Fuck Cameron, fuck Clegg, and fuck this worthless fucking regime. Soon as I graduate, I'm emigrating.



   
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Re: Tution Fee's are going up. - December 10th 2010, 06:41 PM

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Originally Posted by Invert View Post
Like you've had to pay for health care. I dare the ConDems to try charge us for most healthcare.

Just because its a certain way in your country doesn't make this ok. We are a different country, with different values, ideas, and history to your country. It's a big deal here, and we also don't want to make education part of a capitalised market. We also have a better education system, which is under threat.

And a lot of students will point out, this isnt simply about tution fees, its about the cuts in general, and our futures. It's about betrayal from the LibDems. Its about a government that didnt even win the election changing so much. It's about the quality of our education in general (even with higher fees, there will be less money going to unis). It's about the increase in unemployment, the state support in that, job cuts, welfare cuts, cuts on equality stuff. Its about democracy, and being given a vioce. This is a big issue. Of course for some it is simply having to pay more to get into uni, but for many, its so much more.
How is your system better?
   
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Re: Tution Fee's are going up. - December 10th 2010, 06:48 PM

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How is your system better?
It's a well-known fact, like that your healthcare system also sucks. A simple google search should provide you with an adequate list of reasons.
   
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Re: Tution Fee's are going up. - December 10th 2010, 07:02 PM

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It's a well-known fact, like that your healthcare system also sucks. A simple google search should provide you with an adequate list of reasons.
I do like how you all do secondary.
   
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Re: Tution Fee's are going up. - December 10th 2010, 07:07 PM

Let's keep this on the topic of the tuition fees rather than getting into a debate about healthcare systems - there's another thread for that: http://www.teenhelp.org/forums/f38-c...406-what-heck/

Anyway, I've looked into the arguments from both sides of this issue and to be honest the Government's plans and claims regarding them don't hold water. You cannot increase someone's basic debt from c.£9,000 to c.£27,000 (and let's be frank, if universities can charge that much they will - they are a business at the end of the day) and then claim it will leave people better off. The maths does not work. I also found it amusing that the Prime Minister uses the example of a carer on £23,000 per year paying back £44 per month under the old system but only £15 under this one, which sounds great until you realise it would mean the debt would never be paid off before the 30-year cut-off and would have to be written off by the Treasury. They're also planning to increase bursaries and scholarships funding from £8bn to £12bn, which does beg the question of where they are going to get the money from in the first place. The whole approach seems utterly incohesive and is unlikely to actually save any money, which I thought was the whole point...

On the subject of comparisons with the American system, American universities have a far stronger scholarship and bursary system funded by - let's be honest - far more generous alumni contributions and donations, so in reality the cost to the student in most cases is lower. In any event they are unlikely to end up with such large debts after the event.


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If you're referring to dr2005's response, it's not complex, however, he has a way with words .
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Re: Tution Fee's are going up. - December 10th 2010, 07:08 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHnGyqG9s9A&NR=1

I LOL'd.

Build a Bonfire
Build a bonfire
Put the tories on the top
Put the libdems on the middle
and we'll burn the F**king lot.

:')




   
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Re: Tution Fee's are going up. - December 10th 2010, 07:16 PM

I am definitely against the violence. I don't think it's needed and it's asking and causing more trouble. If I was him I'd be thinking why the heck should I not make these lot pay when the way they are behaving is so immature.


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Re: Tution Fee's are going up. - December 10th 2010, 07:27 PM

The more I read about it the more pissed I get. Something's wrong with my damn brain. Of course kettling's gona piss people off.

So police started kettling before violence even started? That just SHOWS that they KNEW what to expect. They all knew how pissed a reaction they'd get, but don't give any shit.

So... if they knew that well that so many people would protest so violently before the confrontations even started... shit, the more I think about it the more I wana see them choke hanging from a piece of rope.


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.


   
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Re: Tution Fee's are going up. - December 10th 2010, 07:33 PM

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The more I read about it the more pissed I get. Something's wrong with my damn brain.
I FEEL THE SAME WAY.
I was watching the news last night and I felt like screaming at the TV or something.
GRRRR .. It just feels like all they want to do is f*ck our education up.
Do they not realise that the people they are preventing from going to university, because of money issues, will be the ones keeping the economy afloat in 10 in years time?
Maybe if they listened to students point of view they'd get a taste of the real world.




   
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Re: Tution Fee's are going up. - December 10th 2010, 08:17 PM

The conservatives are thinking:

"Hey, labour lost the previous election, and they aren't coming back for a long time. We are so far ahead of the Lib Dems in votes, they'l pose no strife. So LET'S JUST DO WTF WE WANT, 'cos we can get away with it."


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.


   
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Re: Tution Fee's are going up. - December 10th 2010, 08:42 PM

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Originally Posted by Jessie'Lou View Post
I am definitely against the violence. I don't think it's needed and it's asking and causing more trouble. If I was him I'd be thinking why the heck should I not make these lot pay when the way they are behaving is so immature.
He should have no right to use his powers to punish a huge group of innocent students, because of what goes on at these protests. He is the one making them hopeless for the future. If anyone should be punished it should be him. But here's the thing, we've been making peaceful protests, petition, letters to MPs, this month and for years. Where has it got us? The bill passed anyway (though props to the LibDems who stuck to their pledge). I'm not saying violence is the answer, but i really dont see how it can leave us much worse off, or less listened to.

I also don't see violent (against property, as opposed to people. Violence toward people is always bad) protest as immature. And I don't see why graffiti is reported, thats not even violent. And if I think the police are being violent toward you, for the sake of self defense you need to be violent back. Some people were violent without the police starting, but many weren't. Many were pushed into that situation. And we already have one 19 year old in hospital with bleeding in his brain from it all.
   
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Re: Tution Fee's are going up. - December 10th 2010, 08:48 PM

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He should have no right to use his powers to punish a huge group of innocent students, because of what goes on at these protests. He is the one making them hopeless for the future. If anyone should be punished it should be him. But here's the thing, we've been making peaceful protests, petition, letters to MPs, this month and for years. Where has it got us? The bill passed anyway (though props to the LibDems who stuck to their pledge). I'm not saying violence is the answer, but i really dont see how it can leave us much worse off, or less listened to.

I also don't see violent (against property, as opposed to people. Violence toward people is always bad) protest as immature. And I don't see why graffiti is reported, thats not even violent. And if I think the police are being violent toward you, for the sake of self defense you need to be violent back. Some people were violent without the police starting, but many weren't. Many were pushed into that situation. And we already have one 19 year old in hospital with bleeding in his brain from it all.
I am not saying everyone has been violent, I am saying the ones who are, I think are in the wrong. The one's who were violent on their own with out being tricked in to it or what ever you want to call it. I wouldn't call putting other people in danger or wrecking their things uncontrollably is mature.


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Re: Tution Fee's are going up. - December 10th 2010, 09:52 PM

What did they really expect was going to happen when they put up tuition fees? Im sure lots of students voted for lib dems in the first place because they said they wanted to get rid of tuition fee.... then they go and increase them? I can completely understand why people behaved in the way they did. If I had my way they would be out of parliament tomorrow

Also, I think most of the people who disagree with the protests and say they don't understand what the fuss is all about are people who it probably wont affect. They don't understand because it isn't their future. I am from a low income family and it could cost me approximately £40,000 to complete a 4yr course (including living costs). I think it is disgraceful. It seriously puts me off going to university despite the fact that I will be eligable for bursaries etc


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Last edited by L'espoir; December 10th 2010 at 10:01 PM.
   
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