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View Poll Results: Assisted suicide is....
Wrong and should never be legal in the UK OR USA 8 22.22%
Fair , it is up to us what we do with our body 20 55.56%
Neither right or wrong 4 11.11%
You should have to travel somewhere it is legal 0 0%
It is unfair to travel for it 0 0%
Should be Legal - within limitations, Must be terminal with no prognosis for improvment (Smitten) 4 11.11%
Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

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Assisted Suicide - December 10th 2010, 07:31 AM

In the UK this is not legal.
I agree with this for these reasons

1. More people might become suicidal
2. It would use up NHS funds
3. It would be hard on the family

I DISAGREE striongly because
1. if someone had a horrific illness , for example , Motar Neurone Syndrome when you gradually lose control of you body , but it does not affect your brain , so you know exactly what is going on. You may wish to end it , I can see why.
2. Often people lack the strengh to Kill themselves , again due to illness.
3. It is painless
4. No-one has to feel guilt
5. You can choose to die with your loved ones around.
6. Cause of death is obvious , therfore no post-mortem is needed.


Obviously , people are going to have strong feelings on this topic , i'd like to hear them , with reasoning.




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Re: Assisted Suicide - December 10th 2010, 07:44 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiley:) View Post
I DISAGREE strongly because
1. if someone had a horrific illness , for example , Motar Neurone Syndrome when you gradually lose control of you body , but it does not affect your brain , so you know exactly what is going on. You may wish to end it , I can see why.
2. Often people lack the strength to Kill themselves , again due to illness.
3. It is painless
4. No-one has to feel guilt
5. You can choose to die with your loved ones around.
6. Cause of death is obvious , therefore no post-mortem is needed.
I really do agree with your above points, however I'm strongly for making assisted suicide illegal. For one thing like you mentioned; it will cause more people to want to commit suicide knowing that they can receive help. (assisted suicide opens the door to more ways of suicide) It also puts a heavy strain on the family, this effectively will be the hardest decision a family can make. And besides we have seen failed suicide attempts throughout the world which end the victim in heavy amounts of suffering and pain. About 300,000 Americans a year have failed suicide attempts, which can lead to a nasty hospital bill

About people with diseases and such. In the hospital they do contain chemicals to put down a patient who is intensely suffering, suicide is not needed. They also have hospice programs which help the victim more at ease and to help both the family and the patient be ready to pass away, while suicide is sudden.


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Re: Assisted Suicide - December 10th 2010, 07:47 AM

meh ..... its there life they can do with it what they want if they want to die and there tired of life and cant function or are in extreme pain and cant do it themselves they should be allowed to have someone help them... but maybe have it so its a process....


i agree with it cause since the accident with my back i have told both my parents and every single family member if something happens and i become paralized from the neck down to pull the plug on me...

i dont dissagree at all
   
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Re: Assisted Suicide - December 10th 2010, 12:08 PM

Wait a sec I'm not sure I'm really understanding this whole "it will make more people commit suicide" thing. Assisted suicide is only used in cases where the person is dying. For a fact dying, no way out, and it's going to be very painful. Assisted suicide doesn't mean I had another horrible day and want to kill myself so I'm gonna go find someone to help me.


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Re: Assisted Suicide - December 10th 2010, 03:11 PM

I don't agree with it at all and I don't think it should be legal.

I guess I can see the point to people thinking about making it legal if someone is seriously ill, they are going to die and they are in a lot of pain.

But if someone is suicidal because they are suffering with depression, it's not very encouraging to them, or to other people in the world. It's like they are telling people to give up fighting because they can not beat depression. I don't think that is right.


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Re: Assisted Suicide - December 10th 2010, 04:09 PM

I think you guys are confused. There is NO country that's talking about allowing anyone who wants to die to be assisted in doing so. Assisted suicide ONLY concerns those who are terminally ill.


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Re: Assisted Suicide - December 10th 2010, 04:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigmole View Post
I think you guys are confused. There is NO country that's talking about allowing anyone who wants to die to be assisted in doing so. Assisted suicide ONLY concerns those who are terminally ill.
yes, that is it not just because I want to but if I am ill and will die shortly anyway.
   
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Re: Assisted Suicide - December 10th 2010, 05:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessie'Lou View Post
I don't agree with it at all and I don't think it should be legal.

I guess I can see the point to people thinking about making it legal if someone is seriously ill, they are going to die and they are in a lot of pain.

But if someone is suicidal because they are suffering with depression, it's not very encouraging to them, or to other people in the world. It's like they are telling people to give up fighting because they can not beat depression. I don't think that is right.
You're arguing another topic. This is about patients who are terminally ill and want to die sooner rather than later. In this case, I see no logical reason why it should be illegal.

I definitely see a problem with helping others commit suicide. First and foremost: If it's legal to help someone kill 'themselves', we're going to see one of the biggest rises in lethal crime in centuries.
   
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Re: Assisted Suicide - December 10th 2010, 06:11 PM

One things how do they put criminals to death today? ( in areas with capital punishment)
   
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Re: Assisted Suicide - December 10th 2010, 08:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigmole View Post
I think you guys are confused. There is NO country that's talking about allowing anyone who wants to die to be assisted in doing so. Assisted suicide ONLY concerns those who are terminally ill.
Except in Switzerland, apparently. Link may be triggering, for obvious reasons.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/oc...aw-switzerland



   
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Re: Assisted Suicide - December 10th 2010, 09:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acheron View Post
Except in Switzerland, apparently. Link may be triggering, for obvious reasons.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/oc...aw-switzerland
If this is the case( did not read the link, but if this is true the Swis are crazy.
   
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Re: Assisted Suicide - December 10th 2010, 09:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiley:) View Post
1. More people might become suicidal
Assisted suicide is when you're terminally ill. It is not about having more people with depression go to clinics to have them be killed. This argument is false as it's not dealing with assisted suicide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiley:) View Post
2. It would use up NHS funds
I'm not seeing the significance here. If someone is terminally ill and after psychiatric evaluation, this is their choice, it seems fair to let them do this rather than continue to try and treat them despite their refusals, which also uses NHS funds. Either way, support or not supporting assisted suicide will use NHS funds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiley:) View Post
3. It would be hard on the family
So would a terminal illness, which the person would already have. If no help is available medically, yes it may be hard on the family but the family will suffer either way. Either they have the knowledge a member of their family suffered from whatever terminal illness until death or they went in a more peaceful manner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiley:) View Post
1. if someone had a horrific illness , for example , Motar Neurone Syndrome when you gradually lose control of you body , but it does not affect your brain , so you know exactly what is going on. You may wish to end it , I can see why.
Eh... it does affect the nervous system actually for the impairments to be produced, so saying it doesn't affect your brain is completely wrong. The word "neuron" in the name of it should hint at this. Also, up to 50% do have cognitive changes specifically with their executive functions. Overall, your example is terrible as it only applies to maybe half the people suffering from that syndrome.

However, if someone has a terrible disease, chances are they are on medications which may affect the nervous system, especially if they are to reduce pain. If you've ever tried communicating with people who are on morphine or other pain killers, they're not completely salient. Alternatively, the disease itself may have affected the nervous system and produce changes that impair cognition. If someone is born with a certain disease, the child or adult may not be fully salient.

So... your argument has to be reformed as it's very ambiguous and your example is terrible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiley:) View Post
2. Often people lack the strengh to Kill themselves , again due to illness.
I'm not seeing the point. They're too weak to kill themselves, they have a terminal illness, they are in a fit enough state of mind... what's the argument against it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiley:) View Post
3. It is painless
This assumes you know how it's done. Provide a link showing it is painless and describing the method(s). Until then, it's an unsupported claim. Moot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiley:) View Post
4. No-one has to feel guilt
Would the person doing the assisted suicide not feel guilt? If they're good friends with the person choosing this route, wouldn't they feel guilty? Yet again, another unsupported sentence that uses its conclusion as argument without evidence. Moot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiley:) View Post
5. You can choose to die with your loved ones around.
So?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiley:) View Post
6. Cause of death is obvious , therfore no post-mortem is needed.
Unless the body is to be used for research but again, what is the significance of this? I don't see how it is important one way or another if there is a post-mordem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiley:) View Post
Obviously , people are going to have strong feelings on this topic , i'd like to hear them , with reasoning.
LOL!!!

Sorry, it's just that your points have no reasoning with them yet you want others to give you a reasoning for their points. Some of your points, I don't see the importance or how it relates to this because you gave no reasoning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I love dogs View Post
One things how do they put criminals to death today? ( in areas with capital punishment)
In various ways but what gives you the notion they'll use the same methods for this? For example, in China, execution as capital punishment can be by public shooting squad. Do you think that in the US or wherever else, they'd bring a person who has a terminal illness, possibly linked to various IV's and other medical monitors to be shot in public?


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Re: Assisted Suicide - December 10th 2010, 10:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by WOW!USaidSomethingSmart! View Post









In various ways but what gives you the notion they'll use the same methods for this? For example, in China, execution as capital punishment can be by public shooting squad. Do you think that in the US or wherever else, they'd bring a person who has a terminal illness, possibly linked to various IV's and other medical monitors to be shot in public?
In this country it is primary injection which is the same way they would do it for them.
   
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Re: Assisted Suicide - December 10th 2010, 10:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by I love dogs View Post
In this country it is primary injection which is the same way they would do it for them.
So... why did you ask the question before if you know the answer or was it a rhetorical question? I'm confused.


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Re: Assisted Suicide - December 10th 2010, 10:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by WOW!USaidSomethingSmart! View Post
So... why did you ask the question before if you know the answer or was it a rhetorical question? I'm confused.
If we give the people that committed AWFUL crimes( in most cases) that painless way of death; then, it would make since that the people that choose to die and are in AWFUL pain should have that method.
   
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Re: Assisted Suicide - December 11th 2010, 01:49 AM

I think it's a great idea, it should be made legal for various reasons.
   
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Re: Assisted Suicide - December 11th 2010, 08:21 AM

I think SCOTUS already ruled on this but stil many states make it illegal to do so.

1. It is the assisted part that can screw you legally and morally.
Who is qualified to assist in someone committing suicide? A nurse, a doctor, a psychologist? Many of those I've listed take an oath to do all that is possible to save someones life, so haveing them do it would be unlikely. (think about the ones that assist in capital punishment, they dont want their name known and more times then none, they back out)

2. Leagaly you could be screwed.
What is considered to be an assisted suicicde? Who can take part in it? Are there any exceptions? Does the individual need to be sane to do it? what methods are legal? What happenes if they don't die? What if they begin to have survere pain? Who has to report it? What if the (person assisting) use the wrong dosage/round/etc... Does this include those on death row? What if they have debit to pay?

I could go on and on, but I hope I made my point that this isn't something you can look at black and white. Its not tomatoes, tamateoes.
   
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Re: Assisted Suicide - December 11th 2010, 02:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by -A- View Post
I think SCOTUS already ruled on this but stil many states make it illegal to do so.

1. It is the assisted part that can screw you legally and morally.
Who is qualified to assist in someone committing suicide? A nurse, a doctor, a psychologist? Many of those I've listed take an oath to do all that is possible to save someones life, so haveing them do it would be unlikely. (think about the ones that assist in capital punishment, they dont want their name known and more times then none, they back out)

2. Leagaly you could be screwed.
What is considered to be an assisted suicicde? Who can take part in it? Are there any exceptions? Does the individual need to be sane to do it? what methods are legal? What happenes if they don't die? What if they begin to have survere pain? Who has to report it? What if the (person assisting) use the wrong dosage/round/etc... Does this include those on death row? What if they have debit to pay?

I could go on and on, but I hope I made my point that this isn't something you can look at black and white. Its not tomatoes, tamateoes.
Well first of all, in the places it is legal yes the person must be sane. Secondly, they will only do it if they have done all they can to save them. Most likely injection would be the primary if not only legal method. No it would not (optionally include people on death row( more than likely. If something happened either they could have them sign something before hand saying they would not sue or if it was proven that the person assisting did it on purpose have charges filed aganist them.
   
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Re: Assisted Suicide - December 11th 2010, 05:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by I love dogs View Post
Well first of all, in the places it is legal yes the person must be sane.
Sane as defined by?

Secondly, they will only do it if they have done all they can to save them.
Who determines this?


Most likely injection would be the primary if not only legal method.
Why cant they use a different method? A bullet works just as well and is instantaneous. Would the person "assisting" be taught or know how to properly do XXX (place the needle, correct dosage, etc..)

No it would not (optionally include people on death row) more than likely.
Why?

If something happened either they could have them sign something before hand saying they would not sue or if it was proven that the person assisting did it on purpose have charges filed aganist them.

By this I'm guessing you mean the individual who attenuated suicide or they're family filling charges. What about the City, County, State, Fed. filling charges?
What if the person is currently involved in a trial (weather they be the defended or not)? What if there's a warrant for they're arrest? What if they're in the military? What if they're the only guardian for his/her minor children? Would they're need to be any wittiness?

I'm not trying to be a jerk but this is a very controversial subject and attempting to get legislation to pass in the US is not very easy to do on such.
   
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Re: Assisted Suicide - December 11th 2010, 07:55 PM

Quote:
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Well first of all, in the places it is legal yes the person must be sane.
Before judging who is sane, one has to know, what does it require to be sane? There's no single test that is designed in neuropsychology or psychology that teases at this. It's one of the biggest problems in trials where someone uses the "insane" defense (not the current name though). Clinicians argue on this all the time because certain tests can show someone may have traits that could potentially impair thinking rationally but don't show that it will affect. Even thinking rationally is an assumption of what it may be needed to be sane. If so, how irrational is insane? So it's easy to say they should be sane but what is sane?

Also, think of the person who is terminally ill. If their illness is affecting their brain, then the test isn't assessing someone with a normal, functioning brain BUT... it may be possible for them to be sane. It throws a wrench into the picture if neuro-imaging were to be used to back up the definition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I love dogs
Secondly, they will only do it if they have done all they can to save them.
That's not so clear cut though. I think I may have mentioned this before but there can be experimental procedures or simply trying previous ones again and again, or trying something new to see if it may work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -A- View Post
What if the person is currently involved in a trial (weather they be the defended or not)? What if there's a warrant for they're arrest? What if they're in the military? What if they're the only guardian for his/her minor children? Would they're need to be any wittiness?
I don't think any of my answers are black-and-white because there probably are details I've missed or other questions that make them flimsy.

If there's a warrant for them, the person is terminally ill and assuming they're hooked up to whatever medical equipment and soon going to die, I think one thing to consider is what the warrant is for. If it's for an offense, then the sentence for that offense should be considered because the person may not have enough time to live to serve all of it. Also, if they were to be imprisoned, how can that happen if they're hooked up to various equipments? Suppose someone is hooked up to a dialysis machine. They're not small calculator-sized devices, they're pretty big heavy things. Taking the person off whatever equipments could render them dead faster. This is all assuming their terminal illness has heavily impaired them. If not, then they should serve their sentence. The main point of my answer that I think is flimsy but nonetheless, if the sentence is very long, longer than the person is expected to live (remembering they're heavily impaired and soon going to die), they should be given the option of either having this suicide or serving as much of the time as possible.

If they're in a trial, I suppose it'd matter on the offense in question for what the sentence would be if found guilty. It'd be similar to the above. I'll admit, it is a lot more complicated though so I do understand what I'm saying isn't to be taken as though it's black-and-white, bread and butter.

If they're in the military, I think unless they're heavily impaired or in a very secretive task or in an important study, then it shouldn't matter.

If they're the only guardian, well, I think it'd apply to the same when a child's parents are dead or imprisoned. Either, they go to immediate family or child care if they're under legal age.

For the witness question, I think there would be just to ensure the procedure (injection, shooting, hanging, etc...) was done properly to specifications and the person is dead. If the person is shot in the head but alive, as that has happened, it should be noted the shooter either sucked or the person is lucky/unlucky. If something did go wrong, I'm sure the family could sue and depending on the legal stuff, various levels of the government could sue as well.


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Re: Assisted Suicide - December 11th 2010, 08:12 PM

By sane I more meant that the person could still understand and be talked to ECT. Like some disorders where the person gets where their brain can not understand not that they go crazy, but just their brain starts to go due to medical problems and/or old age.
   
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Re: Assisted Suicide - December 11th 2010, 09:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by WOW!USaidSomethingSmart! View Post
Before judging who is sane, one has to know, what does it require to be sane? There's no single test that is designed in neuropsychology or psychology that teases at this. It's one of the biggest problems in trials where someone uses the "insane" defense (not the current name though). Clinicians argue on this all the time because certain tests can show someone may have traits that could potentially impair thinking rationally but don't show that it will affect. Even thinking rationally is an assumption of what it may be needed to be sane. If so, how irrational is insane? So it's easy to say they should be sane but what is sane?

Per websters dictionary
Sane:
mentally sound; especially : able to anticipate and appraise the effect of one's actions.

For instance, do you think someone who is depressed is sane?

I work in the Emergency medical field, and one thing that comes up is the painietns right to deny health care. In a jist, if there not dying, or we believe there not going to die in a short time frame they can deny service but they have to sign an afidavid staing that they are willing, through no ones actoins but they're own, under no type of narcotic, alchole or mind alteating substance agree to go against the advice of the emergency medical techian and deny service.


Also, think of the person who is terminally ill. If their illness is affecting their brain, then the test isn't assessing someone with a normal, functioning brain BUT... it may be possible for them to be sane. It throws a wrench into the picture if neuro-imaging were to be used to back up the definition.

I agree with that. Sadly its not, partly due to our lack of knloege in this spacifc feild of study and how such scans can prove to be correct.

That's not so clear cut though. I think I may have mentioned this before but there can be experimental procedures or simply trying previous ones again and again, or trying something new to see if it may work.

True

I don't think any of my answers are black-and-white because there probably are details I've missed or other questions that make them flimsy.

If there's a warrant for them, the person is terminally ill and assuming they're hooked up to whatever medical equipment and soon going to die, I think one thing to consider is what the warrant is for. If it's for an offense, then the sentence for that offense should be considered because the person may not have enough time to live to serve all of it. Also, if they were to be imprisoned, how can that happen if they're hooked up to various equipments? Suppose someone is hooked up to a dialysis machine. They're not small calculator-sized devices, they're pretty big heavy things. Taking the person off whatever equipments could render them dead faster. This is all assuming their terminal illness has heavily impaired them. If not, then they should serve their sentence. The main point of my answer that I think is flimsy but nonetheless, if the sentence is very long, longer than the person is expected to live (remembering they're heavily impaired and soon going to die), they should be given the option of either having this suicide or serving as much of the time as possible.

You can be imprisoned in a medical treatment facility and refer to my anwser below. And the court can't order you to kill your self, that's unconstitional.

If they're in a trial, I suppose it'd matter on the offense in question for what the sentence would be if found guilty. It'd be similar to the above. I'll admit, it is a lot more complicated though so I do understand what I'm saying isn't to be taken as though it's black-and-white, bread and butter.

Yes, the courts have issued special medical pardons but that is rare. It's not as simple as saying, i have a terminal illness there for nothing I do should matter. If your brought before the court, it's becuase they believe you have committed a crime and unless the courts drop the charges or issue the pardon you'll be convicted.

If they're in the military, I think unless they're heavily impaired or in a very secretive task or in an important study, then it shouldn't matter.

But that's the thing, when you join the military you pretty much sign your life away for XXX years. In an event, unless you have been medicaly discharged, it anit gonna happen. You have to follw the laws set forth by the military through the uniform code of military justice. So pretty much it be considered going AWOL.

If they're the only guardian, well, I think it'd apply to the same when a child's parents are dead or imprisoned. Either, they go to immediate family or child care if they're under legal age.

Then the paper work would have to be done before hand, obviously.


For the witness question, I think there would be just to ensure the procedure (injection, shooting, hanging, etc...) was done properly to specifications and the person is dead. If the person is shot in the head but alive, as that has happened, it should be noted the shooter either sucked or the person is lucky/unlucky. If something did go wrong, I'm sure the family could sue and depending on the legal stuff, various levels of the government could sue as well.
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Re: Assisted Suicide - December 12th 2010, 06:49 PM

I think it could be made legal but only under the supervision of professionals. I do not think that people with no extensive knowledge of medicine should be doing this themselves, due to unforeseen complications and, as mentioned, legal consequences. If a person wishes to be "euthanized" there should be legal papers that need to be signed beforehand. Obviously, though, some cases are going to be more complicated than others, which may make the general process more difficult. But I can see the point in this, if the person is terminally ill and wishes to die peacefully and with dignity.
   
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Re: Assisted Suicide - December 14th 2010, 03:02 AM

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Originally Posted by -A-
For instance, do you think someone who is depressed is sane?
There's no general answer for people who are depressed as they may be able to anticipate their actions but whether they can appraise them is also questionable. However, the main question is to what extent must they anticipate and appraise? Someone who is in a psychotic episode can anticipate something although it may be based on something that is completely irrational. So there has to be a threshold for anticipation and appraisal, which is what is in debate between clinicians.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -A-
But that's the thing, when you join the military you pretty much sign your life away for XXX years. In an event, unless you have been medicaly discharged, it anit gonna happen. You have to follw the laws set forth by the military through the uniform code of military justice. So pretty much it be considered going AWOL.


That's what I was saying, although didn't articulate it that well. You'd have to be medically discharged and I emphasized if you're heavily impaired from the terminal illness because there's a good chance you wouldn't be able to successfully perform your duties. By that I mean if you had, say, breast cancer or skin cancer, you may be able to perform your duties whereas if you had lung cancer and couldn't say 3 syllables without taking deep breaths from a respirator, you'd be more likely to be medically cleared as your duties, whatever they were, probably couldn't be done. If you're not cleared, then yeah it is going awol.


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Re: Assisted Suicide - December 14th 2010, 06:12 AM

Don't I have a right to control my own life? Don't I have a right to do what I want to my own body?


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Re: Assisted Suicide - December 14th 2010, 07:54 AM

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Don't I have a right to control my own life? Don't I have a right to do what I want to my own body?
I agree with you but you can't look at it in simple black and white, this is a very complicated issue. If we made it 100% legal to assist in someone's suicide, how do we differentiate between murder and assisted suicide? Example: Son kills mother to gain inheritance, passes it off as assisted suicide.
I would support assisted suicide but only under very controlled circumstances with many doctors, professionals, relatives in agreement etc.
   
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Re: Assisted Suicide - December 14th 2010, 01:12 PM

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Eh... it does affect the nervous system actually for the impairments to be produced, so saying it doesn't affect your brain is completely wrong. The word "neuron" in the name of it should hint at this. Also, up to 50% do have cognitive changes specifically with their executive functions. Overall, your example is terrible as it only applies to maybe half the people suffering from that syndrome.

However, if someone has a terrible disease, chances are they are on medications which may affect the nervous system, especially if they are to reduce pain. If you've ever tried communicating with people who are on morphine or other pain killers, they're not completely salient. Alternatively, the disease itself may have affected the nervous system and produce changes that impair cognition. If someone is born with a certain disease, the child or adult may not be fully salient.

So... your argument has to be reformed as it's very ambiguous and your example is terrible.



No , I don't think YOU understand what I was trying to say , I was making a point of the fact someone could have this and want to die , I was not taking about it in general.
I also am aware of what 'neurones' etc are. As I myself have a very rare condition affecting nerves in the brain etc for more info see my Disabiltitys thread please.
I think it was very insensitive of you to post this without first checking WHY someone would create a thred like this. I know can't be the only one on here with this (though it is a 1:35000 chancE ) I have this and i'm not on meds.
I was born with this too. :Like I say ,my check my D thread

I'll also point out , you whole post is contridictry , choose what you support , not just waffle




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Re: Assisted Suicide - December 14th 2010, 05:21 PM

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I think it was very insensitive of you to post this without first checking WHY someone would create a thred like this. I know can't be the only one on here with this (though it is a 1:35000 chancE ) I have this and i'm not on meds.
I was born with this too. :Like I say ,my check my D thread
You didn't say why you made it and I'm not going to hunt around on TH so figure out why you may have done so. That's something you state at the beginning of the thread.

I'm not going to go hunting around TH forums to find another thread you made. I don't personally care all that much why you made this thread because you aren't considering assisted suicide (or you haven't mentioned it) and aren't in the process of medical approval for it. If you were, you could give insight which I'd value. Also, mentioning your condition in this context is avoiding addressing what I posted to you and potentially playing a guilt card. Were this a thread about that particular disease or about terminal illnesses in general, I'd value what you say regarding your disability but it's not such a thread.

Outside the context of this forum, I do sympathize with you over your condition.

Quote:
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I'll also point out , you whole post is contridictry , choose what you support , not just waffle
This is a debate forum for a reason, and if you're going to make a claim, then you need to provide sufficient rationale and evidence. Quote either parts of my post refuting individual parts or somehow show what it is I have contradicted and how. Just say I did without any rationale makes it a meaningless statement of no value or worth.


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Re: Assisted Suicide - December 14th 2010, 05:29 PM

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Originally Posted by Matthew View Post


I agree with you but you can't look at it in simple black and white, this is a very complicated issue. If we made it 100% legal to assist in someone's suicide, how do we differentiate between murder and assisted suicide? Example: Son kills mother to gain inheritance, passes it off as assisted suicide.
I would support assisted suicide but only under very controlled circumstances with many doctors, professionals, relatives in agreement etc.
Sign off a legal document, get it approved by some institution, and you are free to go


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Re: Assisted Suicide - December 14th 2010, 05:55 PM

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Sign off a legal document, get it approved by some institution, and you are free to go
Thats essentially what I mean lol. Get doctors etc. to assess the situation, get a legal document, and you can pull the plug /w. But if its not handled properly, and theres a definite possibility for laziness/abuse of that system, then it could be disastrous.
   
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Re: Assisted Suicide - December 14th 2010, 08:04 PM

Just to point out that pulling the plug can not always be considered assisted suicide. People can make living wills detailing the conditions they wish not to be kept alive under; which are honored. Also, sometimes people will tell their family ( not in writing the same details). Thus, sometimes when they pull the plug the person may not be able to consent to assisted suicide.
   
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Re: Assisted Suicide - December 15th 2010, 11:11 AM

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You didn't say why you made it and I'm not going to hunt around on TH so figure out why you may have done so. That's something you state at the beginning of the thread.

I'm not going to go hunting around TH forums to find another thread you made. I don't personally care all that much why you made this thread because you aren't considering assisted suicide (or you haven't mentioned it) and aren't in the process of medical approval for it. If you were, you could give insight which I'd value. Also, mentioning your condition in this context is avoiding addressing what I posted to you and potentially playing a guilt card. Were this a thread about that particular disease or about terminal illnesses in general, I'd value what you say regarding your disability but it's not such a thread.

Outside the context of this forum, I do sympathize with you over your condition.

Okay , but it is no guilt card' I was trying to prove that I knew what a neurone is :P




This is a debate forum for a reason, and if you're going to make a claim, then you need to provide sufficient rationale and evidence. Quote either parts of my post refuting individual parts or somehow show what it is I have contradicted and how. Just say I did without any rationale makes it a meaningless statement of no value or worth.

Okay , but it is no guilt card' I was trying to prove that I knew what a neurone is :P




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Re: Assisted Suicide - December 15th 2010, 07:50 PM

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Okay , but it is no guilt card' I was trying to prove that I knew what a neurone is :P
That is wonderful your knowledge of what a NEURON is has nothing to do in this debate. Were NEURONs that subject of the debate, it would matter but a NEURON is not the subject of this debate. So your knowledge of a NEURON is irrelevant. It was an example you gave and I'll say again, you still haven't addressed any of the comments I made of your initial post, if you're even planning on addressing them.


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Re: Assisted Suicide - December 16th 2010, 07:34 AM

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Just to point out that pulling the plug can not always be considered assisted suicide. People can make living wills detailing the conditions they wish not to be kept alive under; which are honored. Also, sometimes people will tell their family ( not in writing the same details). Thus, sometimes when they pull the plug the person may not be able to consent to assisted suicide.
That's completely different to this...
   
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Re: Assisted Suicide - December 19th 2010, 01:08 AM

- Proper palliative care can make it unnecessary.
- would be difficult to regulate.
- Will lead to terminally ill people not being treated as well.
- could discourage the research for new cures and treatments for the terminally ill.
- Pressure on the elderly from family members and pressure on the vulnerable.
- Gives too much power to doctors. Doctors are not always right. and some doctors may not have the morals that we like to think. They may try and pressure people into assisted suicide to free up resources.
- It is not easy to define suffering. What is suffering to one person may not be suffering to another.
- What if the diagnosis is wrong and the person is not terminally ill?
- The patient could be depressed and therefore believe their situation to be much worse than it is?
- The patient could be confused and not able to make an informed and sensible decision, they may feel that they are a burden on others.

I can understand why some people would feel like it's the right option for them but i don't agree with it being legal. it's basically treating terminally ill people like a burden.


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Re: Assisted Suicide - December 19th 2010, 01:15 AM

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Originally Posted by losing touch. View Post
- Proper palliative care can make it unnecessary.
- would be difficult to regulate.
- Will lead to terminally ill people not being treated as well.
- could discourage the research for new cures and treatments for the terminally ill.
- Pressure on the elderly from family members and pressure on the vulnerable.
- Gives too much power to doctors. Doctors are not always right. and some doctors may not have the morals that we like to think. They may try and pressure people into assisted suicide to free up resources.
- It is not easy to define suffering. What is suffering to one person may not be suffering to another.
- What if the diagnosis is wrong and the person is not terminally ill?
- The patient could be depressed and therefore believe their situation to be much worse than it is?
- The patient could be confused and not able to make an informed and sensible decision, they may feel that they are a burden on others.

I can understand why some people would feel like it's the right option for them but i don't agree with it being legal. it's basically treating terminally ill people like a burden.
but the person chooses it so it is not like we are saying you are a burden.
   
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Re: Assisted Suicide - December 19th 2010, 01:19 AM

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but the person chooses it so it is not like we are saying you are a burden.
i think you missed my point. it will make people feel like they are a burden.. which will lead to them agreeing to killing themselves even if they don't actually want to. terminally ill people are VERY vulnerable. having a law in place that allows them, along with their family to kill them is obviously going to make them more likely to want to die prematurely. also - i repeat what i said earlier.. diagnos's/prognosis' CAN be wrong. there are new developments with drugs all the time. i just hate the idea of giving up on people.


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Re: Assisted Suicide - December 19th 2010, 01:22 AM

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i think you missed my point. it will make people feel like they are a burden.. which will lead to them agreeing to killing themselves even if they don't actually want to. terminally ill people are VERY vulnerable. having a law in place that allows them, along with their family to kill them is obviously going to make them more likely to want to die prematurely. also - i repeat what i said earlier.. diagnos's/prognosis' CAN be wrong. there are new developments with drugs all the time. i just hate the idea of giving up on people.
could they not make it where the family has little or no influence on the choice?
   
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Re: Assisted Suicide - December 19th 2010, 01:28 AM

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could they not make it where the family has little or no influence on the choice?
that would be impossible to implement. whether the family have direct influence (telling them they should do it) or not the patient will still be influenced by feelings that the family will be better off not having to look after them. having a terminal illness can make you very mentally unstable and often unable to assess logically how you are actually feeling leading to making a decision that you wouldn't otherwise contemplate. i think a lot of people wrongly have a view that all terminally ill people are in terrible pain and wishing to die every minute of every day. while there are sadly some people like that it's not always the case. palliative care is constantly improving and is actually very good for the most part.


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Re: Assisted Suicide - December 19th 2010, 01:31 AM

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that would be impossible to implement. whether the family have direct influence (telling them they should do it) or not the patient will still be influenced by feelings that the family will be better off not having to look after them. having a terminal illness can make you very mentally unstable and often unable to assess logically how you are actually feeling leading to making a decision that you wouldn't otherwise contemplate. i think a lot of people wrongly have a view that all terminally ill people are in terrible pain and wishing to die every minute of every day. while there are sadly some people like that it's not always the case. palliative care is constantly improving and is actually very good for the most part.
froom my understanding if they can still do something for them assisted suicide is not an option.
   
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