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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
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Is Santa good or bad? - December 18th 2010, 08:09 AM

We teach our kids that Santa is good, its safe to sit on his lap and talk to him, he gives us presents etc etc... so.... wouldn't it be really obvious for a pedophile/kidnapper/etc to dress up as Santa and then the kids will gladly go with them?

Discuss. I'm curious what you all think. Especially those with kids.




   
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Re: Is Santa good or bad? - December 18th 2010, 09:00 AM

Santa is not the same person as a pedophile/kidnapper/etc dressed up as Santa Claus. What you REALLY want to know is the IDEA of Santa Claus and whether it's a good idea for parents to teach their kids about Santa Claus. So you could have worded your thread differently.

Is it a bad idea to teach kids about Santa Claus being good based on those circumstances? It's hard to judge. From personal experience, my parents were always there when I was sitting on Santa's lap, but I was also forced. I think we know a lot of kids who have cried or got really upset with sitting on Santa's lap. So is it safe to say that if a man dressed up as Santa Claus, would he "lure" kids? Possibly. But you could also lure a kid in everyday clothing. I don't know of a kid who would "gladly" go with Santa Claus. However, I don't know about the entire child population who knows who Santa is.

With that being said, the idea of Santa being good or bad is like saying whether seat belts are good or bad. Yes, seat belts save lives...but it's still a flawed concept when in certain circumstances. Therefore, it depends.
   
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Re: Is Santa good or bad? - December 18th 2010, 09:10 AM

I agree with Brandon. Everything has a good and bad side, including Santa Claus. Personally, I think the likelihood of someone dressing up like Santa and luring some kid to go and do bad things is extremely slim. A big part of Christmas is the whole Santa Claus thing, and I think to take that away from a child because of parental paranoia would just be cruel. Santa is a beacon of sorts for childlike joy and wonder. Children are at a very early age when they start believing in Santa Claus, and that's also their most impressionable time. So if they're being conditioned to believe that something as traditionally harmless as Santa Claus is in fact a pedophile/murderer/intruder/what have you, you're setting the stage for more of that later in life. I would rather have my kids believe in Santa Claus and retain a bit of their wonder then be a little less safe later on.
   
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Re: Is Santa good or bad? - December 18th 2010, 10:23 AM

Awesome, people calling father christmas a paedophile, it's good to think people don't ruin things any more ^^
   
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Re: Is Santa good or bad? - December 18th 2010, 10:54 AM

I think we're gone far too obsessed with the idea that every man that goes near a kid is a pedophile when in fact most sexual abuse is carried out by someone the child and their parents know and trust. Don't leave your child alone with Santa and you've nothing to worry about.
   
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Re: Is Santa good or bad? - December 18th 2010, 12:32 PM

I think that kids have more brains than we give them credit for. At least, if they have good parents. When I was a kid I can't see myself running up to a random Santa Clause on the street, I would think it was a bit odd that Santa would simply be walking around at random, so I would probably avoid him. Also, I don't plan on getting my kids all hyped up about Santa Clause, because they should know that there's more meaning to Christmas than gifts.





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Re: Is Santa good or bad? - December 18th 2010, 08:24 PM

Man =/= pedophile.

That's a phrase which you'll find quite useful.

You're essentially giving in to the 1 in 100000000000 people who are pedophiles. I don't mean to offend, but you sound like the type of person who'd ban the swimming race because of the chance of drowning.
   
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Re: Is Santa good or bad? - December 18th 2010, 09:40 PM

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Originally Posted by Lil'TeppyLala View Post
I think we're gone far too obsessed with the idea that every man that goes near a kid is a pedophile when in fact most sexual abuse is carried out by someone the child and their parents know and trust. Don't leave your child alone with Santa and you've nothing to worry about.
I agree with Nicola.


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Re: Is Santa good or bad? - December 19th 2010, 01:02 AM

I agree. I was just curious because it was brought up before. I think i small child 3 or 4, would not know better though.




   
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Re: Is Santa good or bad? - December 19th 2010, 01:14 AM

The likelihood of that happening is very slim.
Also, wouldn't it look a bit odd for someone to see a Santa leaving someplace with a line of kids behind him?
And a Santa costume would draw an attraction to the man and make him more obvious and visible.
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Re: Is Santa good or bad? - December 19th 2010, 01:24 AM

i worked in the santa's grotto at my old primary schools xmas fair a few years ago and we had to have two others in the room at all times with santa and the kids. i guess you never know.. :/


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Re: Is Santa good or bad? - December 19th 2010, 01:29 AM

As far as I am aware they're required to do a CRB check anyway. Obviously this doesn't eradicate the problem completely but it helps...
   
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Re: Is Santa good or bad? - December 19th 2010, 08:24 AM

If the person in the Santa suit is a pedophile, it's still a hopeless opportunity for them to do any harm or kidnap the child. Think of it this way: there are numerous witnesses intently watching the children go to the Santa, even when it's not their children. Santa helpers also watch the children and ensure the area is secure. So if a child's parents weren't watching, I don't think it'd matter much because many other parents would. There is irrefutable evidence against the Santa person if they tried anything. In some places, there are also security guards near-by, making it even more hopeless for the Santa person to do anything harmful. Hell, there are also plenty of people walking around the place minding their business whose attention would be diverted to the Santa person should something happen and since society is protective of children, it's an even further hopeless chance for the Santa person.

The child may be lured to the Santa by gifts or whatever and may cry when on Santa's lap but that's nothing unexpected.

If it were a Santa person walking around town or the mall, having a child run to the Santa while the parents doddle elsewhere allows for the opportunity to occur. But assuming the parents aren't so reckless or don't loose sight of their children, it's fine. Besides, there always are other people and the moment there's news of a child missing, people get hyped up to find the child and ensure its safety.


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Re: Is Santa good or bad? - December 19th 2010, 09:08 AM

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Originally Posted by skylight View Post
I agree. I was just curious because it was brought up before. I think i small child 3 or 4, would not know better though.
Most 3 to 4 year olds are scared of "Santa" Yes they'll start to talk about him around this age, and giggle etc but when they're actually in front of him most will cry and want nothing to do with him.


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Re: Is Santa good or bad? - December 20th 2010, 01:38 AM

After 21 years, he still hasn't given me my pony.

He's an ass.
   
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Re: Is Santa good or bad? - December 20th 2010, 11:16 AM

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After 21 years, he still hasn't given me my pony.

He's an ass.
WHAT A BASTARD.

HE STILL HASN'T GIVEN ME MY PRINCESS FAIRY OUTFIT.
WHAT DO?
   
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Re: Is Santa good or bad? - December 20th 2010, 11:11 PM

He still hasn't given me that racing car I asked for many times over either - you just can't depend on some people...

But anyway, given the number of people and level of supervision involved in a Santa's grotto it would be a pretty poor way for a paedophile to try and groom or abuse children so the odds of that happening are pretty remote. As for the general message portrayed by Santa, my understanding was that children were meant to sit on his knee as opposed to his lap and in any event having a gentle old man figure who gives out presents without any expectation in return is not an image I deem particularly bad. The entire Saint Nicholas story is based upon the principles of charitable giving after all. As with anything it's open to abuse, but as has already been pointed out it's highly unlikely someone would successfully exploit it in that way.


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Re: Is Santa good or bad? - December 21st 2010, 12:28 AM



In all seriousness, how is Santa bad?


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Re: Is Santa good or bad? - December 21st 2010, 01:15 AM

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Re: Is Santa good or bad? - December 21st 2010, 01:57 AM

The concept is good, but a guy dressing up as him with other things in mind is a whole other story.


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Re: Is Santa good or bad? - December 21st 2010, 02:58 AM

lol you don't have to be hired as a santa to dress as one. So the "background checks" wouldn't work since they aren't going for a job?
I think with a small child, yes, they could be lured to a pedophile. No, I am not assuming every man is. But there are quite a few of them. I don't think it means Santa shouldn't be learned about or anything



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Re: Is Santa good or bad? - December 21st 2010, 03:03 AM

I think any child who's been told not to talk to strangers would know better than to go off, alone, with Santa Claus. And anyway, they could just as easily be lured away by some guy with a lollipop. It's silly to worry about a guy dressed up as Santa harming your children when they probably won't even leave your sight while they're with him. A woman could just as easily dress up as a sweet old granny with cookies to lure children into her home. It's just seems silly and unlikely to me that men dressed up as Santa are a threat.
   
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Re: Is Santa good or bad? - December 21st 2010, 10:28 PM

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In all seriousness, how is Santa bad?
what movie was this from ? i remember watching it but cant recal the name
   
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Re: Is Santa good or bad? - December 22nd 2010, 01:51 PM

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No, I am not assuming every man is. But there are quite a few of them.

No there are not.
   
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Re: Is Santa good or bad? - December 22nd 2010, 06:18 PM

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No there are not.

Yes there are some man that are pedophiles.


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Re: Is Santa good or bad? - December 22nd 2010, 06:26 PM

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Yes there are some man that are pedophiles.
Just like there's some women that are pedophiles. A pedophile is a pedophile, not a man. If all pedophiles were men, then it'd be a true statement. But that's not the case.
   
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Re: Is Santa good or bad? - December 22nd 2010, 07:09 PM

I think a pedophile could more easily lure a kid into his possession by saying he has chocolate cake back at his house. But if he wants to make it all obvious and suspicious by dressing up in a Santa suit... best of luck to him? The pedophile man in a Santa costume luring kids could also just as easily be the pedophile guy in the Tigger costume at Disney.

You can't really single out Santa, because there is still the Easter Bunny, upon other costumed people they look up to. All you can do is try your best to instill in your child not to go anywhere with anyone without permission.


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Re: Is Santa good or bad? - December 22nd 2010, 08:40 PM

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Originally Posted by Brandon View Post


Just like there's some women that are pedophiles. A pedophile is a pedophile, not a man. If all pedophiles were men, then it'd be a true statement. But that's not the case.

And I never said women weren't pedophiles so I still stand by what I said. Some men are pedophiles.


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Re: Is Santa good or bad? - December 22nd 2010, 09:30 PM

Quote:
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Just like there's some women that are pedophiles. A pedophile is a pedophile, not a man. If all pedophiles were men, then it'd be a true statement. But that's not the case.
Someone who gets it.

Although, Mexico, you did not say that all men are pedophiles, the way you said what you did made it sound like you thought only men were pedophiles.
   
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Re: Is Santa good or bad? - December 23rd 2010, 07:15 AM

Society comes up with pretty hilarious theories about random things! And Santa being a bad thing is just another hilarious one! God, soon the easter bunny and tooth fairy are going to be charged for burglary! Santa is not a damn pedophile! What a ridiculous statement! Also, where there is a 'Santa' there are many many kids, with their parents, in a usually fenced off area, and photographers. Kids aren't going to get kidnapped!
   
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Re: Is Santa good or bad? - December 23rd 2010, 08:52 AM

It was just a thought that is all.
I was curious as to what people thought. I know anyone can dress up as any of these things. I was just making a point that the world is getting redic nowadays. You never know what people will do to get young children.




   
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Re: Is Santa good or bad? - December 23rd 2010, 03:20 PM

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Originally Posted by TranquilChaos View Post
lol you don't have to be hired as a santa to dress as one. So the "background checks" wouldn't work since they aren't going for a job?
Although it may not be a paid job, it is a job involving interaction with children. I know when I volunteered during some summers at a local library for a children's summer reading program, they wanted a background check on all the volunteers including myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TranquilChaos View Post
But there are quite a few of them.
That's about as vague and ambiguous of a statement as you can get. Do you have any numerical range or a link? I'm not sure how someone can refute what you said due to this ambiguity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skylight View Post
I was just making a point that the world is getting redic nowadays.
I had to read this sentence a few times to understand what "redic" means. Seems the world is getting ridiculous not only with this paranoia of pedophiles but also with some of the misspelled shortened words.


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Re: Is Santa good or bad? - December 23rd 2010, 03:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by WOW!USaidSomethingSmart! View Post
Although it may not be a paid job, it is a job involving interaction with children. I know when I volunteered during some summers at a local library for a children's summer reading program, they wanted a background check on all the volunteers including myself.
I don't think she was talking about volunteers or paid workers.

You don't have to be working paid or unpaid to dress up as Santa. I could very easily go and buy a costume for £5 and dress up and walk around the streets like that. No background checks are needed for that. I think this is what she meant.
   
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Re: Is Santa good or bad? - December 23rd 2010, 04:19 PM

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Originally Posted by TranquilChaos View Post
lol you don't have to be hired as a santa to dress as one. So the "background checks" wouldn't work since they aren't going for a job?
I think with a small child, yes, they could be lured to a pedophile. No, I am not assuming every man is. But there are quite a few of them. I don't think it means Santa shouldn't be learned about or anything
Most children who see someone dressed as santa on the streets just go 'mummy! mummy! look, that man's dressed like santa'...

And I don't think you can really justify saying 'there are quite a few of them' when you compare the amount of paedophiles to the amount of men in the world.
   
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Re: Is Santa good or bad? - December 24th 2010, 01:18 AM

Oh please. You are totally going off topic. I was bringing up this debate because someone mentioned it to me.




   
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Re: Is Santa good or bad? - December 24th 2010, 01:32 AM

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Oh please. You are totally going off topic. I was bringing up this debate because someone mentioned it to me.
Honestly, I don't see how its gone off topic. The question in your OP was pretty vague anyway. Who was this statement addressing exactly? Plus, have you seen any thread in the Debate forum that hasn't gone at least slightly off topic?


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Re: Is Santa good or bad? - December 24th 2010, 09:46 AM

About my spelling? That doesn't have anything to do with this debate or anything to do in the OP.




   
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Re: Is Santa good or bad? - December 25th 2010, 06:28 PM

Dressing up as Santa would create too much attention. Any time anyone sees Santa, they usually stop and stare. It wouldn't be very practical and people would usually remember seeing Santa nearby beforehand.The missing puppy would be better than dressing up as Santa Clause.
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Re: Is Santa good or bad? - December 26th 2010, 06:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil'TeppyLala View Post
I think we're gone far too obsessed with the idea that every man that goes near a kid is a pedophile when in fact most sexual abuse is carried out by someone the child and their parents know and trust. Don't leave your child alone with Santa and you've nothing to worry about.
this, as the idea of whether the idea of Santa is good or bad well I am not sure, as long as the kids are young though I do not think it is really important. The only bad I can see is if the family falls on hard times and can not afford "santa" one year.
   
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