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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
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Injured good Samaritan ticketed for jaywalking - February 26th 2009, 04:20 PM

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DENVER – A good Samaritan who helped push three people out of the path of a pickup truck before being struck and injured has gotten a strange reward for his good deed: A jaywalking ticket.
Family members said 58-year-old bus driver Jim Moffett and another man were helping two elderly women cross a busy Denver street in a snowstorm when he was hit Friday night.
Moffett suffered bleeding in the brain, broken bones, a dislocated shoulder and a possible ruptured spleen. He was in serious but stable condition Wednesday.
The Colorado State Patrol issued the citation. Trooper Ryan Sullivan said that despite Moffett's intentions, jaywalking contributed to the accident.
Moffett had been driving his bus when the two women got off. In the interest of safety, he got out and, together with another passenger, helped the ladies cross.
Moffett's stepson, Ken McDonald, said the driver of the pickup plowed into his stepfather, but not before Moffett pushed the two women out of the way.
When he awoke in intensive care, he learned of the ticket. "His reaction was dazed and confused. I was a little angry," said McDonald.
The other man also was cited for jaywalking, while the pickup driver was cited with careless driving that led to injury. Sullivan said the two elderly women haven't been cited but the investigation is ongoing.
Link: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090226/...ritan_ticketed

I think it's absolutely ridiculous. The law's getting to be so restrictive that you can't do anything nice for anyone without getting some sort of fine.


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Re: Injured good Samaritan ticketed for jaywalking - February 26th 2009, 04:23 PM

I agree with you 100%. How can you punish somebody for helping the elderly across the road.


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Re: Injured good Samaritan ticketed for jaywalking - February 26th 2009, 05:09 PM

Hey, you gotta meet your quota somehow.


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Re: Injured good Samaritan ticketed for jaywalking - February 26th 2009, 05:11 PM

That's why I don't do nice stuff for people :P
   
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Re: Injured good Samaritan ticketed for jaywalking - February 26th 2009, 05:15 PM

Laws are their for a reason, that's all I'm saying.
   
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Re: Injured good Samaritan ticketed for jaywalking - February 26th 2009, 05:15 PM

Ugh..... just stupid. I suppose they would have been happier if the two old ladies got hit by the truck?


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Re: Injured good Samaritan ticketed for jaywalking - February 26th 2009, 05:23 PM

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Originally Posted by PolkaDotTissue View Post
Laws are their for a reason, that's all I'm saying.
Yes, laws are there for a reason, to discourage criminals from causing trouble for good people.

But when someone is helping another person and not hurting anyone else, there's no reason to punish them for that. It just discourages good people from doing good things.


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Re: Injured good Samaritan ticketed for jaywalking - February 26th 2009, 05:24 PM

I just read about that. The idiot driver should at LEAST get 2 years. I would prefer 10. How can two people who nearly DIED saving two other people, get a harsher punishment then the driver? They should get medals, not tickets! I am so mad.
   
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Re: Injured good Samaritan ticketed for jaywalking - February 26th 2009, 05:26 PM

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Originally Posted by FadingBeauty View Post
I just read about that. The idiot driver should at LEAST get 2 years. I would prefer 10. How can two people who nearly DIED saving two other people, get a harsher punishment then the driver? They should get medals, not tickets! I am so mad.
Agreed.

The injustice of it is upsetting.


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Re: Injured good Samaritan ticketed for jaywalking - February 26th 2009, 05:30 PM

x3 on that.


Though I hate laws and authority and general. Too much of the dang things.


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Re: Injured good Samaritan ticketed for jaywalking - February 26th 2009, 06:22 PM

It was just careless, should they not of crossed at a safer time? or a safer spot? It was carelessness.
   
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Re: Injured good Samaritan ticketed for jaywalking - February 26th 2009, 08:18 PM

^ I will agree with this, assuming that the truck driver wasn't at fault for being reckless or whatnot.

Though I still think it is stupid to basically punish someone for saving lives, because, being honest, the elderly ladies wouldn't have survived that. I know he broke the law, but so has pretty much everyone. Don't you think his hospital bills are enough discouragement, without just tacking this fine ontop of it?


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Re: Injured good Samaritan ticketed for jaywalking - February 26th 2009, 11:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by PolkaDotTissue View Post
It was just careless, should they not of crossed at a safer time? or a safer spot? It was carelessness.
In some cities, jaywalking is a common occurrence because the streets are so busy that it's impractical to wait for a crosswalk light. (I used to live in the Twin Cities, Minnesota. You don't wait for a crosswalk in downtown Minneapolis.)


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Re: Injured good Samaritan ticketed for jaywalking - February 26th 2009, 11:24 PM

Before I say anything else, what exactly IS jaywalking?
   
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Re: Injured good Samaritan ticketed for jaywalking - February 26th 2009, 11:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by PolkaDotTissue View Post
Before I say anything else, what exactly IS jaywalking?
Jay walking is illegally crossing a street. Basically anywhere there is not a designated cross walk. This law is in place because if you are going 50 mph and someone decides to randomly cross the street that puts both the pedestrian and the driver in danger. So they made it a law that you can only cross the road in crosswalks. If not, you are considered to be jay walking and it is ticket able.

Why he was helping the elderly ladies cross in the middle of the street? I don't know, but he should have been using a cross walk for the safety of himself and the women.




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Re: Injured good Samaritan ticketed for jaywalking - February 26th 2009, 11:36 PM

Steal a candy bar you get life in prison... kill someone you maybe get 10 years+probation how is that justice?


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Re: Injured good Samaritan ticketed for jaywalking - February 26th 2009, 11:44 PM

We don't, and never will, know what happened. So do not judge
   
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Re: Injured good Samaritan ticketed for jaywalking - February 26th 2009, 11:44 PM

He should have been using a crosswalk. I honestly think that he should have walked the ladies up the street and had them cross at a crosswalk. I'm not familiar with the city but I wouldn't dare cross where there isn't a crosswalk. You are asking to get hit. I hate that he was hit, but he broke the law and he should be ticketed. We can't bend the law just because he was helping two old ladies.


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Re: Injured good Samaritan ticketed for jaywalking - February 27th 2009, 03:31 AM

Heroic, yes, illegal, yes. Therefore, he should get the fine just as he did. We don't know the situation, how the roads are, etc..., so perhaps a crosswalk wasn't nearby. Also, as a bus driver, he would need to be on time for the next stop, so if the crosswalk was a bit away, taking them to it would've just screwed himself over. It's not meant to discourage heroic acts, it's meant to bring peace and order, and doing activities in a legal manner. He didn't, therefore, he got exactly what he deserved: a hug and a fine.
   
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Re: Injured good Samaritan ticketed for jaywalking - February 27th 2009, 07:50 AM

Crosswalks exist for a reason. To be used. It's a shame he has been hurt and also fined, but he broke the law.



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Re: Injured good Samaritan ticketed for jaywalking - February 27th 2009, 08:23 AM

Hi Laura!!

I hope you're having super duper day.

I agree with you - it was absolutely ridiculous.

Far too often - people forget that the LAW belongs to US. It is not there to cause US harm. It is there for OUR sake. And police officers are only supposed enforce OUR laws AGAINST US - IF they have no other option. The only time an officer should give someone a citation [A ticket] or arrest someone or otherwise interfere with a citizens life is when they have no other choice. Trooper Ryan Sullivan [The officer in the story you linked us too] DID have a choice. And he made a mistake by choosing to give Jim Moffett [The 58-year-old bus driver hit by the truck] a citation. [A fine for jaywalking] Mr. Moffett had already - OBVIOUSLY - received a 'penalty' for his mistake. [Being hit by that truck] It serves no purpose to add insult to injury by also presenting him with a citation. And I can't help but think - most police officers would agree.

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Re: Injured good Samaritan ticketed for jaywalking - February 27th 2009, 11:21 AM

well technically if the ladies hadn't jay walked in the first place and obyed the law, no one would've been hurt including them and the guy who was hit
so the law is their for a reason and all of them should've obyed it and the whole situation could've been avoided.

i mean yes he was helping them, but he was helping them do somthing illegal..
   
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Re: Injured good Samaritan ticketed for jaywalking - February 28th 2009, 03:00 AM

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Originally Posted by CanadaCraig View Post
Hi Laura!!

I hope you're having super duper day.

I agree with you - it was absolutely ridiculous.

Far too often - people forget that the LAW belongs to US. It is not there to cause US harm. It is there for OUR sake. And police officers are only supposed enforce OUR laws AGAINST US - IF they have no other option. The only time an officer should give someone a citation [A ticket] or arrest someone or otherwise interfere with a citizens life is when they have no other choice. Trooper Ryan Sullivan [The officer in the story you linked us too] DID have a choice. And he made a mistake by choosing to give Jim Moffett [The 58-year-old bus driver hit by the truck] a citation. [A fine for jaywalking] Mr. Moffett had already - OBVIOUSLY - received a 'penalty' for his mistake. [Being hit by that truck] It serves no purpose to add insult to injury by also presenting him with a citation. And I can't help but think - most police officers would agree.

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No, it was not ridiculous. He broke the law, therefore, he should get the appropriate punishment. Getting hit by the vehicle was unfortunate but it's not the suitable punishment. Wait... the officers are meant to enforce it if they have no other option? What other options would they have? Just ignore it? If he gives the person a citation, that's still enforcing the law, just less drastic consequences occur.

So, let me get this straight... if Person A hits person B and breaks person B's jaw and some facial bones, then Person A should get a penalty. I'm assuming you agree with this. If Person A now hits Person B and the same damage is done, except this time Person A has a broken leg from getting beaten up, and asks Person B for a phone but Person B refuses because he's calling someone, then Person A shouldn't get a penalty because he's already injured? NO.

In that example, and in what you're babbling about Craig, the law is subjective and depends not on the situation and people involved, but rather if someone is suffering from some physical injury. Wrong. The law is there to be enforced, and the only exceptions can be if the person is found legally insane or some other small exceptions. The bus driver was sane, therefore, law applies.

But, as I'm always so curious, Craig, let's step back a bit. Forget this situation and my example. Answer this question, without using google or something else: what is your definition of the law and law enforcement? What should the exceptions be, if any? You obviously have a different idea of what it is than what mine is, so tell me, what are your definitions? And no, I don't want some stuff you looked up in a dictionary or used the internet for. I want your definition by you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by delilah
well technically if the ladies hadn't jay walked in the first place and obyed the law, no one would've been hurt including them and the guy who was hit
so the law is their for a reason and all of them should've obyed it and the whole situation could've been avoided.

i mean yes he was helping them, but he was helping them do somthing illegal..
True, if the ladies had obeyed the law, then this could have been avoided. However, that's not the issue. The issue is they didn't avoid it for whatever reasons. Yes, he was doing something illegal, however, what do you think should happen? Did he get a fair result legally?
   
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Re: Injured good Samaritan ticketed for jaywalking - February 28th 2009, 03:41 AM

this is one of those moments where it seems like the law is doing things like this just for the sake of feeling in control,
whether or not he did jaywalk, he did it for the sake of saving two elderly ladies,
since when is someone fined for being a savior?


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Re: Injured good Samaritan ticketed for jaywalking - February 28th 2009, 03:46 AM

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since when is someone fined for being a savior?
Since when is doing something illegal, legal?
   
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Re: Injured good Samaritan ticketed for jaywalking - February 28th 2009, 03:53 AM

I get that he jaywalked and that's wrong, but you have to weigh out the upsides and downsides,

one jaywalker or two lives


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Re: Injured good Samaritan ticketed for jaywalking - February 28th 2009, 04:02 AM

That is injustice.
That poor man all he was doing was helping and he's getting ticketed.
No wonder no one helps anyone anymore.


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Re: Injured good Samaritan ticketed for jaywalking - February 28th 2009, 11:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by YourNightmare View Post
True, if the ladies had obeyed the law, then this could have been avoided. However, that's not the issue. The issue is they didn't avoid it for whatever reasons. Yes, he was doing something illegal, however, what do you think should happen? Did he get a fair result legally?
yes, exactly my point, he did the wrong thing, he got the punishment, dont break the law and complain about the punishment that everyone knows is there to begin with.

if i saw two old ladies jay walking i'd direct them to a crossing area rather then help them cross a road (that one can assume was busyish if he managed to get hit).

thats like if i have drugs and then end up in prison with a sentence as long as smeone who sexually assulted someone or somthing similar to this and then complain that my drugs for my use werent harming anyone so why should i have a similar punishment, everyone would just say tough cookies don't do drugs.

same applies here, except everyone thinks he is a nice guy, rather then a stupid guy.(as opposed to your immediate thoughts of a druggie).
   
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Re: Injured good Samaritan ticketed for jaywalking - March 1st 2009, 03:08 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveMeNot View Post
That is injustice.
That poor man all he was doing was helping and he's getting ticketed.
No wonder no one helps anyone anymore.
Injustice would be the driver not getting ticketed.

You have to realize, the law applies to everyone, regardless if you're being a good samaratin or not. It just doesn't magically no longer apply to someone because they're a nice person. If it did, then it would be injustice.

People don't help for a variety of reasons, this isn't the only one.

In Canada and the US, there's a good samaritan law. Contrary to what it may sound like, it does NOT prevent a person from getting ticketed; it prevents the good samaratin from being sued due to wrongful doing. The samaratin isn't being sued, so if this were applied to the current case, it would be injustice.

You need to realize that the law is objective, so if you are to successfully apply it, you need to quit with all the stupid petty human emotions and analyze it objectively.
   
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Re: Injured good Samaritan ticketed for jaywalking - March 1st 2009, 03:17 AM

Ah, i misunderstood the situation, i thought it was that the man had seen the two ladies about to get hit by a car and had to jaywalk to save them, that's why i thought it was so absurd,

i see that he had done something wrong but he did also save two lives.
while i do agree that the law is obligated to ticket him, i think this is one of the moments where they should just look the other way.
yes, i understand that the law is objective, but i also believe that there are moments such as this, where no major crime as been committed, for the law to simply believe that the man would not have jaywalked under ordinary conditions and only did it because of the circumstance of the two elderly ladies.


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Re: Injured good Samaritan ticketed for jaywalking - March 1st 2009, 03:29 AM

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Ah, i misunderstood the situation, i thought it was that the man had seen the two ladies about to get hit by a car and had to jaywalk to save them, that's why i thought it was so absurd,

i see that he had done something wrong but he did also save two lives.
while i do agree that the law is obligated to ticket him, i think this is one of the moments where they should just look the other way.
yes, i understand that the law is objective, but i also believe that there are moments such as this, where no major crime as been committed, for the law to simply believe that the man would not have jaywalked under ordinary conditions and only did it because of the circumstance of the two elderly ladies.
So, you're sticking to your same point as before? I'm a little bit confused, as you acknowledge that the law is objective but then you go completely subjective, so I assume you're taking the same stand? I'm not sure really. You also seem to say how you misunderstood but then seem to swing back the same way... I'm a bit confused here.

No, the law shouldn't "look the other way" because of a nice person. That's given special consideration to someone and giving them in a sense, special rights. To make it fair, if a crime is committed, then the criminal should get a very light sentence, lighter than what the law states, or perhaps just get away scott-free. Or, as that idea may seem unfit, we punish the criminals as we objectively would in normal cases, but depending where we see fit, we let the person go, let the law slide. I find this to be utter nonsense. Either the law applies to everyone or to nobody, with some notable exceptions, this not being one of them (i.e. refer back to the Good Samaritan Law I stated before).
   
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Re: Injured good Samaritan ticketed for jaywalking - March 1st 2009, 04:32 AM

Sorry, i did word that badly,
all i meant was that now that i understand the situation i understand the argument against it.

but what i mean is this man committed no serious offense and, given normal circumstances, wouldn't have jaywalked at all.
i understand that the law is obliged to punish people who infringe on the law but i also believe that given normal circumstances that man wouldn't have jaywalked


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Re: Injured good Samaritan ticketed for jaywalking - March 1st 2009, 04:38 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWhiteTornado View Post
Sorry, i did word that badly,
all i meant was that now that i understand the situation i understand the argument against it.

but what i mean is this man committed no serious offense and, given normal circumstances, wouldn't have jaywalked at all.
i understand that the law is obliged to punish people who infringe on the law but i also believe that given normal circumstances that man wouldn't have jaywalked
You seem to say with utmost certainty that he wouldn't have jaywalked. How do you know this?
   
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Re: Injured good Samaritan ticketed for jaywalking - March 1st 2009, 04:46 AM

I don't, but this man seems to respect his community enough to help several people cross the street, then sacrifice himself for their safety.
It would be a safe assumption to infer that this man would go through the minor inconvenience of locating a cross-walk before crossing the street


"What do we live for, if not to make life less difficult for each other?"
-George Eliot

"Each morning when I open my eyes I say to myself: I, not events, have the power to make me happy or unhappy today. I can choose which it shall be. Yesterday is dead, tomorrow hasn't arrived yet. I have just one day, today, and I'm going to be happy in it."
-Groucho Marx

"Don't be afraid your life will end; be afraid that it will never begin."
-Grace Hansen
   
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