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Doctors and ethics - January 28th 2011, 05:06 PM

http://www.teenhelp.org/forums/f6-se...birth-control/

In reference to the thread above, Should a doctor be able to refuse to preform a medical procedure and/or prescribe medication SOLELY on ethical/moral grounds?


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Re: Doctors and ethics - January 28th 2011, 05:09 PM

Yes. They are physicians, not man-servants.


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Re: Doctors and ethics - January 28th 2011, 05:29 PM

Of course you are able to decline performing procedures you are religiously or ethically apposed to, such as abortions, or refer patients for abortions, but you MUST pass them on to a colleague who is willing to do so and you aren't allowed to lecture a patient about their choices! Autonomy ffs!

That doctor is completely unethical. I don't even know whether ^^ extends to things such as birth control, but in the unlikely situation that it does he should have referred her onto a colleague prepared to prescribe birth control and not have spoken in the way he did. Or spoken about how he felt about sex before marriage at all.

I'd report him.

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Re: Doctors and ethics - January 28th 2011, 05:45 PM

There's a balance that has to be struck here. On the one hand, we can't simply take away the right of doctors to decide not to perform procedures with which they don't agree: it'd reduce recruitment to the medical profession, and religious fundamentalist doctors (because yes, that's who we're talking about here) can be perfectly good doctors on most areas.

But on the other hand, there's a duty to provide high quality medical care to those that need it. And simply refusing to prescribe birth control is a complete neglect of that duty. There's a potential compromise to be made: allow doctors to act according to their conscience, but require that they refer the patient to a doctor willing to perform the procedure and do not attempt to persuade the patient out of being treated. It isn't a perfect solution: there will be cases in which there is no doctor that the patient could reasonably access who has more enlightened ethical principles. And in those cases, the right of the patient to medical care should trump the right of the doctor not to perform it.

Obviously there are a lot of "reasonably"s in there, and I could see the compromise becoming a goldmine for lawyers. And in a privatised healthcare system such as in the US, doctors may be unwilling to refer patients to their competitors. Yet another argument for state-supplied healthcare, but that's another topic.


EDIT: And then I noticed Rachel's post. Yeah, what she said.



   
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Re: Doctors and ethics - January 28th 2011, 08:47 PM

That doctor was completely wrong. It's not their place to push their morals on other people. And prescribing birth control is not a medical procedure. They have no right to deny that girl the pill, unless there were some medical reasons that she couldn't take it.

I can just picture how things would have went down if I had gotten a similar lecture when I got the pill at 17, especially since I am still a virgin at 21. I would have walked out of the appointment, probably cursed a lot, I mean it's absolutely absurd. You don't go to the doctor for moral lectures. It's like the hospital that denied a rape victim the plan B pill.


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Re: Doctors and ethics - January 28th 2011, 09:48 PM

If you object to a major part of your chosen career, then you obviously shouldn't have chosen that career. The rights and interests of the patient should trump the doctor's personal moral code.


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Re: Doctors and ethics - January 29th 2011, 07:01 AM

No, the doctor had no right to do that in my opinion. You can't deny someone of birth control pills.
I can understand a doctor unwilling to perform an abortion, but even then he/she should not discourage it in anyway, unless the patient asked for an opinion. Also, that doctor should ensure the patient is able to have the abortion just performed by another doctor.
Prescribing birth control pills is not even performing a medical procedure, the doctor is just providing pills, not even making the patient take them! In fact, when you ask for prescription by your doctor, he/she gives you a sheet of paper to take to them chemist! He/she doesn't even hand over the pills! I dont know any ethical reason preventing a piece of paper being printed!
   
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Re: Doctors and ethics - January 30th 2011, 02:03 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by emma01 View Post
No, the doctor had no right to do that in my opinion. You can't deny someone of birth control pills.
I can understand a doctor unwilling to perform an abortion, but even then he/she should not discourage it in anyway, unless the patient asked for an opinion. Also, that doctor should ensure the patient is able to have the abortion just performed by another doctor.
Prescribing birth control pills is not even performing a medical procedure, the doctor is just providing pills, not even making the patient take them! In fact, when you ask for prescription by your doctor, he/she gives you a sheet of paper to take to them chemist! He/she doesn't even hand over the pills! I dont know any ethical reason preventing a piece of paper being printed!
I second everything you just said.



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Re: Doctors and ethics - January 30th 2011, 11:00 AM

No. It's wrong in my opinion. Your a doctor, suck it up and do your job or don't become a doctor in the first place. You shouldn't pick and choose your patients or what type of things you treat or don't treat.


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Re: Doctors and ethics - February 1st 2011, 12:00 AM

*sigh*...silly religious people. Always letting their wee stories get in the way of what is right.

No. Just no. I'm so glad they wouldn't get away with that kind of thing in Britain.

I <3 the NHS.




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Re: Doctors and ethics - February 1st 2011, 12:43 AM

Wait a minute here. What is everyone going on about? What about all the doctors who lecture against things like smoking and excessive drinking? They lecture against things that are LEGAL to do in most countries. And while yes, these things can kill you in excess or lead to illnesses that can kill you, birth control pills can do bodily harm as well, like being more prone to osteoporosis. The doctor has an oath to do no harm, not to give you hormone pills that do nothing to save your life.

It would be one thing to deny someone antibiotics when they have an infection and lecture the patient on the overuse of them in society. Itís another to not offer someone birth control pills. The doctor is only human. And a human whose job it is to cure illness and diseases.




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Re: Doctors and ethics - February 1st 2011, 12:53 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizzie View Post
Wait a minute here. What is everyone going on about? What about all the doctors who lecture against things like smoking and excessive drinking? They lecture against things that are LEGAL to do in most countries. And while yes, these things can kill you in excess or lead to illnesses that can kill you, birth control pills can do bodily harm as well, like being more prone to osteoporosis. The doctor has an oath to do no harm, not to give you hormone pills that do nothing to save your life.

It would be one thing to deny someone antibiotics when they have an infection and lecture the patient on the overuse of them in society. Itís another to not offer someone birth control pills. The doctor is only human. And a human whose job it is to cure illness and diseases.
Um a doctor can lecture you against smoking or drinking, but you don't need them to write you a prescription to smoke and drink, you can do that no matter what your doctor says. But you do need a doctor to give you birth control and if you ask then it's that doctor's job to give you birth control, unless you have some sort of condition that would cause birth control to affect you badly. This girl didn't have that, she just had a nosy doctor telling her she shouldn't be having sex, at 20 years old!


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Re: Doctors and ethics - February 1st 2011, 02:34 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizzie View Post
Wait a minute here. What is everyone going on about? What about all the doctors who lecture against things like smoking and excessive drinking? They lecture against things that are LEGAL to do in most countries. And while yes, these things can kill you in excess or lead to illnesses that can kill you, birth control pills can do bodily harm as well, like being more prone to osteoporosis. The doctor has an oath to do no harm, not to give you hormone pills that do nothing to save your life.

It would be one thing to deny someone antibiotics when they have an infection and lecture the patient on the overuse of them in society. Itís another to not offer someone birth control pills. The doctor is only human. And a human whose job it is to cure illness and diseases.
Doctors who lecture against smoking and drinking are doing so because there is proof that those things are bad for you. However, they don't try and use their power to stop someone from making that choice; they just let them know the risks. It should be the same for birth control: A doctor should not stop a patient from wanting it based on pure moral grounds, but caution against side effects of it, not why it's bad to have sex.

A doctor's job is not just to cure illnesses and diseases. It's to diagnose and treat for a number of conditions, both preventative and not. In this case, it's irresponsible for a physician to deny a patient a medication based on their own moral beliefs. That physician is providing a service to the patient, and unless there was a legitimate medical reason to deny the patient birth control pills (like a bad drug interaction, for example, with other existing medications), there should have been no reason not to.

Even if there was a reason documented, the physician should have referred her to someone who could explore more options with her. And if the physician couldn't do it on moral grounds, he/she should have referred her to another doctor who could.

Plain and simple, a doctor's job is medicine, not morality.


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Re: Doctors and ethics - February 1st 2011, 06:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizzie View Post
Wait a minute here. What is everyone going on about? What about all the doctors who lecture against things like smoking and excessive drinking? They lecture against things that are LEGAL to do in most countries. And while yes, these things can kill you in excess or lead to illnesses that can kill you, birth control pills can do bodily harm as well, like being more prone to osteoporosis. The doctor has an oath to do no harm, not to give you hormone pills that do nothing to save your life.

It would be one thing to deny someone antibiotics when they have an infection and lecture the patient on the overuse of them in society. Itís another to not offer someone birth control pills. The doctor is only human. And a human whose job it is to cure illness and diseases.
Doctors can lecture and lecture all they like about smoking and drinking, but they cannot actually force someone to stop, they can only provide their opinion. We aren't saying a doctor can't provide his or her opinion, even though what that doctor said was kind of rude, but that doctor can't actually deny the patient of those pills.

Quote:
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They lecture against things that are LEGAL to do in most countries.
Um are you saying birth control pills AREN'T legal?
   
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Re: Doctors and ethics - February 1st 2011, 06:27 PM

Birth control pills are not necessary to live. They do not prevent disease, they do not prevent illness, and they do not stop sickness. A doctor, who feels morally against them, should not have to provide them. The doctor is in no way causing harm to the patient by withholding a prescription.




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Re: Doctors and ethics - February 1st 2011, 06:51 PM

This post is just a whole bucket load of wrong. I'll start at the beginning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizzie View Post
Wait a minute here. What is everyone going on about? What about all the doctors who lecture against things like smoking and excessive drinking?
No good doctor will lecture at you about your smoking or your drinking.

Quote:
They lecture against things that are LEGAL to do in most countries. And while yes, these things can kill you in excess or lead to illnesses that can kill you,
Again, they should not and most will not lecture at you, but will make you aware of the risks of your behaviour and be there to offer advice & support & referrals when necessary. Hell I'm a medical student and I already know lecturing simply alienates the patient who is unprepared to make the first step and makes them unlikely to seek help when they're ready -- we're taught not to make smoking or drinking or even illegal drug abuse the issue unless the patient is prepare to discuss, not lecture, because it's just detrimental.

Quote:
birth control pills can do bodily harm as well, like being more prone to osteoporosis.
Birth control pills are medication. Therefore they have side effects. These side effects are rare and the benefit is considered to outweigh the risks.

Quote:
The doctor has an oath to do no harm, not to give you hormone pills that do nothing to save your life.
A doctor has a duty to do many things. One of them is to be respectful of their patient's beliefs, and a very simple basic FOUNDATION of medicine is AUTONOMY. This doctor was rude, disrespectful and ignored the patients autonomy. Hence: unethical.

Quote:
It would be one thing to deny someone antibiotics when they have an infection and lecture the patient on the overuse of them in society.
Not sure I understand why or what this point's relevance is so I'll just skim over this...

Quote:
It’s another to not offer someone birth control pills. The doctor is only human. And a human whose job it is to cure illness and diseases.
A doctors role is a HELL of a lot more than "cure illness and disease". It involves taking care of a person's needs, health, and well-being on a physical, psychological and social level. Never is it just "cure illness and disease", we no longer live in the 19th century. This especially applies to the family doctor.

Quote:
Birth control pills are not necessary to live. They do not prevent disease, they do not prevent illness, and they do not stop sickness.
We live in a world now where medicine has moved on from a one-dimensional model of health. I suggest you do too. See above post regarding a doctors role.

Quote:
A doctor, who feels morally against them, should not have to provide them.
This doctor is not morally against birth control. This doctor is against the patient having sex before marriage -- huge difference. You CANNOT project your own personal opinion, especially not unasked for, onto a patient. And if your religious or moral beliefs prevent you from partaking in what they need and request then you MUST refer them onto a colleague in a polite and respectful way. Nothing about this doctor was polite or respectful

Quote:
The doctor is in no way causing harm to the patient by withholding a prescription.
Not physically, but as we have already discussed health is not simply physical health, 'health' encompasses psychological and social health also. The patient has clearly been psychologically affected by the doctors treatment of her, and socially the impacts are potentially huge (as it is clear the patient will continue to have sex). A huge role of a doctor is education and this was an opportunity for education regarding sexual health and contraception that was missed out on.


FROM THE TOP (summary):
-- Doctors are entitled to act in accordance to their faith or moral views
-- They are not allowed to push these views onto their patients
-- They must refer the patients whose care they cannot be involved with onto colleagues in a respectful manner so that they can receive that care. Whether it be birth control, abortion, etc
-- Health is not one-dimensional, and has not been considered that way for a very long time. It also encompasses psychological and social health.

This doctor acted unethically not because he did not wish to prescribe birth control pills, but because of the way he dealt with the situation.


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Re: Doctors and ethics - February 1st 2011, 06:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizzie View Post
Birth control pills are not necessary to live. They do not prevent disease, they do not prevent illness, and they do not stop sickness. A doctor, who feels morally against them, should not have to provide them. The doctor is in no way causing harm to the patient by withholding a prescription.
First of all not everyone who is on birth control is on it because they are having sex. I've been on the pill for 4 years and I'm still a virgin. I'm on the pill because of other medical issues. Many girls go on the pill to help with other medical issues. And of course the doctor is causing potential harm by not providing them. The girls who want to are still going to have sex and now they don't have that extra protection and their risk of pregnancy goes up. That sounds like causing harm to me.


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Re: Doctors and ethics - February 1st 2011, 07:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigmole View Post
First of all not everyone who is on birth control is on it because they are having sex. I've been on the pill for 4 years and I'm still a virgin. I'm on the pill because of other medical issues. Many girls go on the pill to help with other medical issues. And of course the doctor is causing potential harm by not providing them. The girls who want to are still going to have sex and now they don't have that extra protection and their risk of pregnancy goes up. That sounds like causing harm to me.
I didnít say everyone that is on birth control is on it to prevent pregnancy. What I am saying is that itís not necessary. Itís not life saving. By one doctor withholding it from a patient because they are morally against it, will not kill the person. There are plenty of means to get birth control. Heck, there are plenty of means to get free birth control pills.

And you canít blame the doctor, if a person decides not to use those means to get birth control pills, has sex anyways and gets pregnant. That is completely at the responsibility of the person, not the doctor.




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Re: Doctors and ethics - February 1st 2011, 07:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizzie View Post

I didnít say everyone that is on birth control is on it to prevent pregnancy. What I am saying is that itís not necessary. Itís not life saving. By one doctor withholding it from a patient because they are morally against it, will not kill the person. There are plenty of means to get birth control. Heck, there are plenty of means to get free birth control pills.

And you canít blame the doctor, if a person decides not to use those means to get birth control pills, has sex anyways and gets pregnant. That is completely at the responsibility of the person, not the doctor.
There's no way that this reaction by the doctor would ever be appropriate. And if it happened to me I would walk out, go to the waiting room and say "if you are unmarried and here to get birth control I suggest you leave because these pigheaded doctors won't give you any." then I would find exactly who I would need to report this docotor to and do so. Because it's not ethical. It's a doctor's job to do what their patient wants, not to push their morals on that patient. Religion and morals have no place in the workplace if you are a doctor.


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Re: Doctors and ethics - February 1st 2011, 07:19 PM

Quote:
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I didn’t say everyone that is on birth control is on it to prevent pregnancy. What I am saying is that it’s not necessary. It’s not life saving. By one doctor withholding it from a patient because they are morally against it, will not kill the person. There are plenty of means to get birth control. Heck, there are plenty of means to get free birth control pills.

And you can’t blame the doctor, if a person decides not to use those means to get birth control pills, has sex anyways and gets pregnant. That is completely at the responsibility of the person, not the doctor.
Do you have any intention of replying to my post? Because my answer will just be the same for this.

The question was whether the answer behaved unethically. In the eyes of medical ethics and law: Yes. Fact.

Doctors have a duty of care to their patients. If a doctor is morally opposed to birth control -- which I feel the need to point out AGAIN this doctor is NOT -- they have a responsibility to refer the patient onto a doctor who is able to help them.

To not do so is irresponsible and unethical.

It is the patient's responsibility whether or not they have sex or not, but think of the effect such an experience would have on them. This patient is clearly upset and they are 20 years old. What if the patient is 15? They are acting responsible in going to the doctor and certainly don't expect such treatment. In many cases they simply won't seek advice or support elsewhere. In such a situation yes the doctor has to take some blame as their HIGHLY inappropriate behaviour impacted upon the patients decision.

Again, this isn't really a debate it's just fact -- the doctor was unethical and wrong to act in the way he did in the eyes of all regulatory bodies.


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Re: Doctors and ethics - February 1st 2011, 07:22 PM

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Originally Posted by thebigmole View Post
There's no way that this reaction by the doctor would ever be appropriate. And if it happened to me I would walk out, go to the waiting room and say "if you are unmarried and here to get birth control I suggest you leave because these pigheaded doctors won't give you any." then I would find exactly who I would need to report this docotor to and do so. Because it's not ethical. It's a doctor's job to do what their patient wants, not to push their morals on that patient. Religion and morals have no place in the workplace if you are a doctor.
A doctor is fully entitled to embrace their religion and morals, of course they are! They are just not allowed to push them onto their patients, and in case where they are unable to carry out the necessary care due to moral or religious objection they have to refer the patient on to a doctor who is able to carry out that care. In a non-judgemental and respectful way.


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Re: Doctors and ethics - February 1st 2011, 07:25 PM

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Because it's not ethical. It's a doctor's job to do what their patient wants, not to push their morals on that patient. Religion and morals have no place in the workplace if you are a doctor.
That is so not a doctorís job! The doctor is there to cure illness and save lives. Doctorís donít have to perform any medical procedures they are not comfortable doing. If a patient wants a procedure that would do more harm then help, then they are allowed to say that they are not comfortable doing it. Or, in the case of abortions, there are many, many doctors out there that will not perform them for moral reasons. You canít walk into a doctorís office and ask for a prescription of codeine and just expect them to write one out. Doctors are not man slaves; they donít do what is asked of them. They do what they feel is medically best. And if they are not comfortable doing something then they can say so freely.




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Re: Doctors and ethics - February 1st 2011, 07:27 PM

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That is so not a doctor’s job! The doctor is there to cure illness and save lives. Doctor’s don’t have to perform any medical procedures they are not comfortable doing. If a patient wants a procedure that would do more harm then help, then they are allowed to say that they are not comfortable doing it. Or, in the case of abortions, there are many, many doctors out there that will not perform them for moral reasons. You can’t walk into a doctor’s office and ask for a prescription of codeine and just expect them to write one out. Doctors are not man slaves; they don’t do what is asked of them. They do what they feel is medically best. And if they are not comfortable doing something then they can say so freely.
That's not really a doctor's job description either tbf


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Re: Doctors and ethics - February 1st 2011, 07:32 PM

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Do you have any intention of replying to my post? Because my answer will just be the same for this.

The question was whether the answer behaved unethically. In the eyes of medical ethics and law: Yes. Fact.

Doctors have a duty of care to their patients. If a doctor is morally opposed to birth control -- which I feel the need to point out AGAIN this doctor is NOT -- they have a responsibility to refer the patient onto a doctor who is able to help them.

To not do so is irresponsible and unethical.

It is the patient's responsibility whether or not they have sex or not, but think of the effect such an experience would have on them. This patient is clearly upset and they are 20 years old. What if the patient is 15? They are acting responsible in going to the doctor and certainly don't expect such treatment. In many cases they simply won't seek advice or support elsewhere. In such a situation yes the doctor has to take some blame as their HIGHLY inappropriate behaviour impacted upon the patients decision.

Again, this isn't really a debate it's just fact -- the doctor was unethical and wrong to act in the way he did in the eyes of all regulatory bodies.
The question posed in this thread is and I quote:

Quote:
Should a doctor be able to refuse to preform a medical procedure and/or prescribe medication SOLELY on ethical/moral grounds?
That is what I am talking about. The question asked by the OP.




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Re: Doctors and ethics - February 1st 2011, 07:33 PM

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The question posed in this thread is and I quote:



That is what I am talking about. The question asked by the OP.
But I know the answer, and the answer isn't a debate, it's just fact, as determined by the GMC and other regulatory bodies world-wide. I've also already answered it:

Yes, of course, however they must be referred in a non-judgemental way that does not involve the doctor forcing upon them their opinion to a doctor who is willing and able to give them the care they need/want.


(RAH)≤ + (AH)≥ + RO(MA + MAMA) + (GA)≤ + OOH + (LA)≤ = Bad Romance

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Re: Doctors and ethics - February 1st 2011, 07:35 PM

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But I know the answer, and the answer isn't a debate, it's just fact. I've also already answered it:

Yes, of course, however they must be referred in a non-judgemental way that does not involve the doctor forcing upon them their opinion to a doctor who is willing and able to give them the care they need/want.
And I agree with you. I never said they should be judgemental.




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Re: Doctors and ethics - February 1st 2011, 07:58 PM

Yes - you cannot compel a medical professional of any kind to act in a way which goes against their moral or ethical principles, just as you cannot compel a professional in any other field to do so. As Rachel says, however, in such circumstances referral to another doctor or professional should be undertaken to ensure proper patient care. That said, if a refusal is based on concern for the patient's welfare and best interests then such refusal, while open to review, should be respected if upon review it is deemed sound. I would be quite uncomfortable with the idea of patients being passed down the line until a doctor agrees to perform a procedure when valid objections or concerns are raised. That is getting off the topic however.


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Re: Doctors and ethics - February 2nd 2011, 03:40 AM

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Yes - you cannot compel a medical professional of any kind to act in a way which goes against their moral or ethical principles, just as you cannot compel a professional in any other field to do so. As Rachel says, however, in such circumstances referral to another doctor or professional should be undertaken to ensure proper patient care. That said, if a refusal is based on concern for the patient's welfare and best interests then such refusal, while open to review, should be respected if upon review it is deemed sound. I would be quite uncomfortable with the idea of patients being passed down the line until a doctor agrees to perform a procedure when valid objections or concerns are raised. That is getting off the topic however.
Ok I don't know if this girl went to an Gyno or not but if she did then it's in their freakin job description to give birth control, and if they have a problem with that then they should have picked a different specialty. And the thing is this doctor was not against birth control, he was against having sex before marriage, which he was assuming birth control was meant for, but what about those of us that are not on birth control for having sex? What you think that someone who's going to lecture a patient on abstinence is going to believe it when a 17 year old girl asks for the pill but says it's not for sex even if it's true? The guy needs to pick a new specialty because sex and birth control is part of his job and if he doesn't like it he can become a radiologist.


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Re: Doctors and ethics - February 2nd 2011, 04:03 PM

Yes, a doctor can refuse to give medical treatments that don't follow their own moral/ethical beliefs. They do have an obligation, however, to refer you to a different physician. They may not come right out and say, "You should go see Dr. ____." You might have to ask first, but if you ask for a referral to someone different, they are obligated to refer you to someone else.


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Re: Doctors and ethics - February 2nd 2011, 04:36 PM

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Ok I don't know if this girl went to an Gyno or not but if she did then it's in their freakin job description to give birth control, and if they have a problem with that then they should have picked a different specialty. And the thing is this doctor was not against birth control, he was against having sex before marriage, which he was assuming birth control was meant for, but what about those of us that are not on birth control for having sex? What you think that someone who's going to lecture a patient on abstinence is going to believe it when a 17 year old girl asks for the pill but says it's not for sex even if it's true? The guy needs to pick a new specialty because sex and birth control is part of his job and if he doesn't like it he can become a radiologist.
With respect, I think you may have missed the point I was attempting to make. My point was that if a doctor refuses to provide treatment such as birth control or abortion for reasons to do with the welfare of the patient - for example, if hormone-based treatments would cause complications which could put their life in danger, or if they believe the patient is being coerced into a procedure (which has actually happened in this country - in one case a 21-year-old social worker was suspended for persuading a 14-year-old to have an abortion without actually asking if they wanted one first) - then those are valid grounds for refusal and part of the doctor's duty of care. Going "doctor shopping" until you find one who will perform the procedure would in such circumstances be a questionable course of action, as would forcing the doctor to proceed regardless. That is not however the situation in that thread nor is it one which covers the situations you mention above, hence why I said that it was getting off the topic. With regard to the doctor in the aforementioned thread, I do not approve of their actions and said, quite clearly, that they should have referred the OP to another doctor. What I was hinting at with my subsequent comment was situations where the doctor had reasons other than standing on their metaphorical soapbox for refusing treatment, and I cannot see why in those situations my statement is particularly controversial.


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Re: Doctors and ethics - February 2nd 2011, 05:33 PM

The thing I was trying to get at is that the doctor had no other reason to deny her the service she requested besides his moral beliefs. On the arguement about smoking and tobacco, these have serious health issues that must be addressed, thus the doctor can strongly encourage a patient to stop drinking and smoking for immediant and direct health benefits. Again, it's not forcing a belief on anyone as it is forcing your belief that drinking bleach is bad for your health...I can encourage you to stop...and give you medical reasons why (i.e. belach is lethal)

In this example, however, he denies her birth control SOLELY on ethical reasons, and then did not refer her to another doctor. Yes, birth control has side effects, but so does sex. Funny thing is, neither one of these side effects change with the presense of a ring and a wedding liesense. If the woman HAD been married, I would assume there would have been no issue. (It appears that the OP of the Original thread was being harked on for premarital sex, not the ethics of control birth itself, but I maybe wrong.) This is the part that is bugging me is that assuming that having sex with a ring is so drastically different then sex without a ring. It's like saying that after graduating high school, this medicine works differently. It is a social event/context that does very little for the biological aspect. If you have two women standing side by side, and a doctor did a phyical examination, you would not be able to tell if one women is married or the other is not solely based on a physical examination. Yes, one may have show to have been pregnant at some point, but guess what: you can get pregnant and have children outside the bounds of marriage While this is a social taboo, it is very physically possible. Without Legal document, or a witness testamony, you cannot, with 100% accuracy, by able to tell if a women is married or not. That being said, The medical implications of marriage ar near zero. The ONLY time marriage would be a factor is a) next-of-kin notification and medical decisons, b) sexuality, fertility, or STI issues c) insureance and payment issues. The effectiveness of the birth control solely form a medical position is not effected by the presense of a ring.

And like many of you have said, many women start taken hormonal brith control well before sexual debut for other serious medical issues that effect their lives. To have the doctor jump to the conclusion that their were having sex is the similar as assuming that someone with HIV is a slut/homo and deserves what they got. You can have the medical condition without the stereotypical transmission, and you can get it on you first try. So to even make accusations of "immoral behavior" on part of the paitent was unethical of the doctor. There was no way of indicating what the specific reasons for taken birth control were at that time in the appointment. (I am assuming that at a later time, the doctor would ask what specifically they were looking for/reasons ect. so that they can find a brith control that works for they needs. I have never gone to a brith contrl appointment before I have only gone in as My finacee got a depo booster, and they just asked simple questions about her period and side effects. Nothing about her sex life.)


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Re: Doctors and ethics - February 2nd 2011, 06:22 PM

This is a very touchy subject but I think it depends on the circumstances. I live in Ireland. Abortion is technically legal but only legal if the birth of the child will cause the mother to die. The process of going about abortion in Ireland is an extremely difficult one that involves a trip to the high court :/ and if the abortion is determined to be legal the woman must then go about finidng a doctor that will actually perform it. Medical practitioners are protected under the constitution and so do not have to perform the procedure. I think that this is acceptable for a number of reasons: the doctor having likely received all training in Ireland would not be trained in the procedure of abortion and also seeing as doctors have to take an oath swearing that they will do everything in their power to protect life it counter acts this oath if they are performing abortions. I could understand why a doctor would not want to perform abortions. As for contraception, I don't think it should be allowed for a GP not to give it out based on their own morals. There is nothing morally wrong with giving contraceptives. That is part of their job so they should just get on with it. I think doctors should have to perform any and every medical procedure they encounter unless they are not trained in that area as it poses risks to the patient.
   
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Re: Doctors and ethics - February 2nd 2011, 10:22 PM

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I didnít say everyone that is on birth control is on it to prevent pregnancy. What I am saying is that itís not necessary. Itís not life saving. By one doctor withholding it from a patient because they are morally against it, will not kill the person. There are plenty of means to get birth control. Heck, there are plenty of means to get free birth control pills.

And you canít blame the doctor, if a person decides not to use those means to get birth control pills, has sex anyways and gets pregnant. That is completely at the responsibility of the person, not the doctor.

Actually, birth control pills CAN save lives. I have Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome and take birth control pills to keep my period regular. If I don't take the pills, I tend to not have my period. If I don't have my period, I could end up with endometrial cancer. So, yes, birth control could be saving my life.
It is also quite possibly saving my fertility for when I -do- want to start a family. I also get the benefits of clearer skin and just overall feeling better.

Yes, if a doctor denied me the birth control pills because I'm not married, I could just go to another doctor, but I'd still be pissed. When I found out I had PCOS I was not in a position to wait to be referred to another doctor. I needed answers ASAP and I needed medication ASAP. I had been 4 months without my period, and that can be dangerous, so I'm pretty darn glad that my doctor told me exactly what I needed.


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Re: Doctors and ethics - February 4th 2011, 03:09 PM

In that situation, I would say that the user should write to the board and file a complaint. That is inappropriate behavior.

The situation of where a doctor should not be forcing their beliefs on someone and where they shouldn't be forced to do a procedure they are not comfortable with is a fine line.

I say if the doctor or some sort of physician is trained, stocked, and staffed for a procedure, they should do it if the person has a valid reason.

One thing that pissed me off is the pharmacists that refuse to fill prescriptions for the abortion pill, the morning after pill (different from the abortion pill), or birth control.

Another situation that probably only applies to certain States is some sort of protection by law where people can't fire practitioners or pharmacists for refusing to do things that go against their religious beliefs. In other words, Planned Parenthood could hire a gynecologist/OB to perform abortions and the day after he's hired, he can say that he's against abortions.


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